majority of those bdm takes wsm accu mag (3.050) so i dont see any problem seating 2.950 on 180vld you just need to open bottom part of action ramp for the round access
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7mm wsm saum 284 winchester HELP!
- Thread starter bjay
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That will be pushing the rim on the boattail through the neck/shoulder junction. On the Lapua cases that will give massive seating pressure. Would not recommend it. 2.965 is the max length on the Alpha WSM mags, that's pushing it on the 7-270WSM but just fine on the SAUM.
Sir my intention is push strictly 180vld would i be better just go with saum instead of wsm since i choosed short action mag instead of long.
A 284 cartridge must be ~3.100" or longer with 162amax and 175smk to have the bearing surface ofthe bullet north of the neck/shoulder junction.
2.950" is the practical maximum in Alpha magazines.
Lapua brass can be used. It works great for the for the first firing, but 50%+ will develop a donut the first shot. The rest will form donuts eventually. That can be fixed with neck turning and/or reaming if you're inclined.
There's a reason they're called the "dreaded" donut. They suck. Best bet is to address it before ever firing. Neck from 6.5-->7--7.62, neck turn and get into the shoulder a bit, neck down to 7. You'll have to sacrifice a few cases getting the shoulder cut right.
This applies to my chamber, which is a PTG "match" with a .317" neck. Speaking of which, .317" is OK for Lapua but too tight for WW if you don't plan toneckturn. I recommend .319".
Right.i remember about aw mag..i understand.i deserve it.ty for helping me on this build and advice
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RWS has .318 reamer is that the minimum to use all brass without neckturning? ill be neckdowning norma 300saum on this 7saum.ill be using accurate mag (according to their web 3.050 oal max) i asked robert at RWS ill be shooting VLD 180 strictly.i also told him my max oal with vld 180 magazine feed will be 2.980 touching land.i can play with 162gr from 2.950 to 2.980. the max 2.980 touching land gives me about .020 to max magazine oal (3.050) maybe ill try jamed to land oneday..am i on the right track?
Make up a dummy round and see what it measures. I don't have any Norma 300SAUM necked down to measure or I would. I can tell you that Remington 300 SAUM brass is relatively thin and a loaded round measures about .338.
ty mike..since im using short action do have idea what size freebore should i go..i think long action they do .188
I'm sorry but I don't know that off the top of my head. But again, make up a dummy round loaded with your bullet of choice, loaded to the length you prefer and will work with your mags, and send it to Pacific Tool and Gauge. I wouldn't spec the neck very tight for this game. Reason being, I don't think there is any way to keep the bearing surface above the neck shoulder junction with 180 vlds in that case and at mag length. BUT...with a little extra clearance and a bushing type sizer die adjusted to not size all the way down the neck, any potential doughnut that forms will essentially form on the outside, not affecting the seated bullet. Make sense?
When i started this build i called moon and gap aswell asked them what action ideal for wdm or saum using up to 180vld? Dustin at gap said go with SA somtimes LA runs to more problem simply because distance bet bullet and ramp litle farther the heavy 180vld intent to dive and that is why ramp on la need to modify..your not gaining anything going on LA specialy accuracy nor reability..ano moon also confimed that moon himself using wsm on SA skyking (here at SH) using sa and shooting 2k yard on SA on wsm.. knowing saum is a litle shorter i figured if all these guys runnibg wsm havibg great luck and great result i should be fine so i purchased barrel and wsmaction from brunos and i just received them yesterday.the long action is already out of the picture.
My next concern now is how tight ir tightest throat size withot doing neck turn.shoult i go with 316 317 or 318?
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Yup they do.. i just received mine other day.. ill neck it down to 7saum.. the beauty of saum from 300 to7mm has the same neck length and shoulder oal.unlike the 400wsm to 7wsm is almost fireforming just because case not identical on shoulder and neck length.saum is basicaly just neck downing....thats why i choosed saum instead of wsm
I cant answer your questions specifically but maybe I can add some info that may be of some help.
A SAUM w/180gn HYB w/OAL of 2.950 will require ~.040" freebore.
A SAUM w/180gn VLD w/OAL of 2.950 will require ~.095" freebore.
Remington SAUM brass w/180 HYB, neck dia is .316 turned to clean up ~90-100%. I myself prefer more than .002" neck clearance on a larger cartridge such as a SAUM.
perfetct! this what i hav been looking for..heres the reamer that tws will be using for my saum..my max oal will be 2.960 when start touching land.my magazing max oal is 2.975..i just received norma 300 brass(still didnt try measure thickness on brass) hopefully it will be .316 after necking it down and load with 180vld..(not hybrid) i got 500 bullets i baught from a brother here..can pls help me undertand this diagram..is this right reamer for my 180vld?
Yes, in my opinion it should work fine for you. His reamer is virtually the same reamer I came up with for SA applications using 180gn HYB @ 2.950" OAL. His reamer and my reamer are within a couple of thousandths and any differences are mainly due to my slightly larger neck diameter. I had no prior knowledge of his reamer and my reamer came after his so very interesting to say the least. With this reamer the VLD will be approximately 2.900" OAL but being shorter will not matter one bit as both VLD and HYB are seated below the neck/shoulder junction anyway. It will give you the option of using the HYB if the VLD doesn't shoot to your liking.
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can he make throat deeper to acomodate 2.960?If he has a throating tool he can move the throat. With Accurate WSM mags @ 2.975" how long do you think it's going to take to errode the throat and run out of mag length? Not hard to get .015" errosion in a 7mm short mag if you shoot it a lot. What do you think you will gain with another ~.060" OAL? A little powder capacity? What if your lot of bullets want to seat a little long to touch the lands (it happens) and now they won't fit in the mag? What if your barrel won't shoot the VLD? If it won't shoot the VLD you have eliminated the HYB from your list but something else will probably fit and work. In my opinion shooting for 2.960 OAL in a mag that has a length of 2.975 is cutting it too close and not worth the headache that it may create. That said in a field rifle I always strive for a combination the leaves the bullet not touching the lands.
that make sense..so i should stick to original .056? this way i got my option to play around with all types and grain of bullets? robert (rws) actualy purchased this reamer for his ow pesonal b uilt rifle that he own..so im guessing he know better why as a smith choose this reamer for personal use..
I would. He recommended this reamer to you didn't he? I doubt he would recommend it if it wouldn't work thereby creating an issue with your rifle. I designed my reamer for myself as well and it looks like he and I were probably looking for the same thing. I can only attest to the VLD's and HYB as far as bullets and OAL go with this reamer. That said the HYB has a really long nose and I would think most other bullets would work. Note: even if the prints are the same no two reamers are exactly alike nor are other components in the system which is why I used the word approximately (or ~) a few times in this conversation. Another note: most people would refer to this reamer as having a .040" freebore rather than referring to the .056" dimension. Just because one reamer says it has a freebore of .040" and another says the same it does not guaranty you will get the same OAL from both reamers. There are other dimensions that can influence OAL.
BTW: the reamer body dimensions (SAMMI) in his print work well with an off the shelf Redding S-type size die.
BTW: the reamer body dimensions (SAMMI) in his print work well with an off the shelf Redding S-type size die.
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Yes he offered this when i said i wanted 317 neck..i just called him earlier and he said he will seat bullet on case makes sure it will spec the way i want it..you comment confirm one thing about his reamer... hes stocking 180hybrid for his personal rifle..you are right he created this for specific reason to run his hybrid180.i do have vld 500bullets i recentry purchased and about to start loading them..but i also dont mind buying hybrid if thats what rifle want.. ty for very helpful,informative comments
There you go! I created my reamer with the 180 HYB in mind as my first option. I have a throating reamer so I can move the throat if I wanted but I really don't see the need at this point.
If I read this right I wouldn't pre-load for a rifle that I didn't have in my hands. You will need it in your hands to verify dimensions for touching the lands as a starting point in your load work up.
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