88 eldm in .223 velocities?

[Nightforce123]

I’ve been tossing the idea of putting together a .223 or .223ai throated for the 88eldm. Do you guys think it is unrealistic to be able to get the 88eldms 3000+ with a regular .223rem? I’m thinking 26” barrel with a .095 freebore. I want to mag feed them out of .223mdt mags. If those velocities are possible I was thinking take a few inches off of that and make up the velocity with a .223ai? What velocities are you guys getting with 88eldms? Thank you

 

[ototallydude]

Bump. I’m curious as well.

 

[FishDr]

Doubt you’ll see 3000 with 88 eld-m from a regular 223 Rem. Most guys get there, or just over, with the 75 eld. I get close to 3100 but I have an unusually fast (and quite long) barrel with the 75s. I tested Varget, 4895, and 2000-MR and only got close to 2900 with the 88 eld.

 

[RegionRat]

Assuming the loaded length after that chamber is reamed will work out, 3000+ out of a regular 223 is pushing it for an 88 eldm or even an 80 SMK. It gets down to the bbl and chamber and a matter of luck sometimes. You will come real close.

With the AI, you will have more margin. You can make 3000 with 223 using a 77 TMK with about 24.0 gr of RE-15 and a Rem 7 1/2 and have a little margin for hot days, so you are really close to your goal but maybe no margin or showing signs of pressure and hard on the brass, etc.

With 88 or 80, you will need to consider the AI or maybe jump to a 224 Valkyrie all together if you feel that speed is very important. Once you get to where you are shooting past 600 with a 223, you may find that a good node with a small SD is far more important than another 75 fps.

 

[Doogie]

I was hoping it would be possible with the 223ai, but so far with I haven't gotten there. Each time I got close to the 3000 fps mark I would blow a primer.

However I've only tested 8208xbr powder with both CCI 400 and 450s. All once fired Lapua brass fire-formed using their 55gr loaded round.
Running an ARC Nucleus with a 26" 1:7 Stainless Green Mountain Heavy Palma Contour barrel. Barrel had ~1300 rounds through it when gathering my data through a Magneto V3.

Have another load dev set all loaded up with Varget and 450s, just waiting for some cooler weather to set in.

 

[jzerfoss]

I've pushed the 88s pretty hard in my 223 and with h4895 2850fps is close to the limit in my 26" Barrel. With pp2000mr I've pushed them to the high 2800s but found an accuracy node at around 2840-2850 fps. The speeds you want you may want to look into a 22br.

 

[RegionRat]

I agree, those other 22 cartridges are worth a look once you accept the limits of the 223.

The case capacity of the 223 is on the order of 28.5 gr H2O, and the 22 Creedmoor being based on the 6.5 CM coming in at 52.5 gr H2O is going to make a huge difference.

223 has a lot going for it and I wouldn't give up too easy if shooting volume, but the practical limits are near that 80 grain weight and then things get difficult. The 90's are the realm of the larger cases.

Depending on the game you are playing, the 223 is hard to beat for efficiency and economy. In the hands of a good marksman, it can compete well. Take a look at what Bob Gill has accomplished with one lately and you will see what I mean.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

You're going to need way more freebore than .095 for the 88 ELDM; it's a long bullet.

They were seated too deep on a .170FB F-T/R gun I had, and I didn't try them until the rifle had ~2,000 rounds on it.

You're not going to get 3000 FPS either; it's got a large bearing surface. Larger than the 90s.

For what it's worth, I really struggled to break 2,800 shooting 90gr VLDs (or SMKs) with a 29" tube and a healthy charge of Varget (24.7gr). That load was so hot it was killing Lapua brass in 3-4 firings. Eventually had to run it at 2780, and even then brass wasn't lasting.

PowerPro might get you there though.

 

[Nightforce123]

The reason I wanna do .223 other than 22 creedmoor and 22br is for one price of reloading ans I have a tikka 223 and don’t feel like buying a new bolt. I’m trying to make PRS cheaper for me and be somewhat competitive. Now I’m just wondering if I should go tactical division and try to push the 75s as fast as I’m allowed. The 88s BC is so attractive though. With the factory tikka 22” barrel I was getting 75eldms 2930fps 2.410” 24.4gr h4895. No pressure. I thought I’d be able to get the 88s even faster with a longer custom barrel. Looking like I’m wrong. I think I’m gonna get a prefit from PVA throated for the 88s and see what I can do.

 

[Codiekfx400]

A longer free bore and a cut rifled barrel will both give you free velocity. A magnum primer might also help along with a longer barrel. I still think a 88 eld in a 223 is going to max out around 2900 fps. At that speed brass will be trashed in one firing. Also could be somewhat of a safety hazard. Slow it down to about 2750 fps and that should be sustainable and still be competitive.

 

[ototallydude]

I pushed the 80 ELD to 2850 FPS out a 20” Bartlein with 23.5 grains of Varget (still room to spare). That’s a good B.C. that’s only a $1 more a box than the 75’s.

 

[FishDr]

The reason I wanna do .223 other than 22 creedmoor and 22br is for one price of reloading ans I have a tikka 223 and don’t feel like buying a new bolt. I’m trying to make PRS cheaper for me and be somewhat competitive. Now I’m just wondering if I should go tactical division and try to push the 75s as fast as I’m allowed. The 88s BC is so attractive though. With the factory tikka 22” barrel I was getting 75eldms 2930fps 2.410” 24.4gr h4895. No pressure. I thought I’d be able to get the 88s even faster with a longer custom barrel. Looking like I’m wrong. I think I’m gonna get a prefit from PVA throated for the 88s and see what I can do.

I don’t want to be offensive but give a perspective here … for PRS or other similar comps, pick the bullet you want to run. Pick the cartridge that will give you the appropriate speed/barrel life compromise and get it spun up. Trying to save $70-$100 for a set of dies is insignificant with all of the other gear and support equipment, and entry fees of the pursuit. Don’t hamper your results by an inferior setup to save these few dollars - make sure the equipment is up to the task and all performance goals will be available.
You still need to purchase brass (though bigger cartridges will be more expensive, the brass will last longer not being pushed to/past its limits). Primers are equal, a few grains extra per cartridge is insignificant. I’m just saying build the barrel/cartridge for the task and don’t pinch a few dollars on this.

 

[FishDr]

I built a 223 Rem because it was required for the matches I shoot. 223 Rem or 308 only. However, if your intend to shoot tactical class, I think the 88s won’t be allowed by rule, and your desired velocity is above the limit as well. Not sure, so someone can clarify.
If the above is true, you would be shooting open, so might as well have a more capable cartridge.

 

[Nightforce123]

I was

I built a 223 Rem because it was required for the matches I shoot. 223 Rem or 308 only. However, if your intend to shoot tactical class, I think the 88s won’t be allowed by rule, and your desired velocity is above the limit as well. Not sure, so someone can clarify.
If the above is true, you would be shooting open, so might as well have a more capable cartridge.

going to use 75s running tactical

 

[Nightforce123]

I built a 223 Rem because it was required for the matches I shoot. 223 Rem or 308 only. However, if your intend to shoot tactical class, I think the 88s won’t be allowed by rule, and your desired velocity is above the limit as well. Not sure, so someone can clarify.
If the above is true, you would be shooting open, so might as well have a more capable cartridge.

I ran my AI in 6.5 last year for prs, I’m running an ar15 .223 this year for dmr. It has saved me a ton of money. I just had another baby so any little bit helps. 8lbs of powder lasts a lot longer, projectiles are cheaper, I use Norma tac once fired brass. It saves more than just $70-$100. Not to mention barrel life is way better. I already have all the gear I need. Just cutting costs from future matches. Also I just love .223 it’s such a fun cartridge.

 

[FishDr]

Then you’ll prob do just fine with 75s in the Tac class. I would throat the barrel for those and not worry ab the 88s. They’re fine and interesting but prob not worth it in a comp setting. It’s definitely cheaper to shoot the 223.

 

[phantomskittles]

I shoot 88s in a 27" barreled 223 with 24.3 of Varget and get a bit over 2800. They feed great from a modified accurate mag. I would say 3000 fps is unrealistic in a standard 223. An AI might get close but to feed in a magazine the bullet is pretty deep in the case and is usually a compressed load. For 3000 fps I would probably go with a 22BR it's just another 6-8 gr of powder.

 

[Clayton Halford]

I've pushed the 88s pretty hard in my 223 and with h4895 2850fps is close to the limit in my 26" Barrel. With pp2000mr I've pushed them to the high 2800s but found an accuracy node at around 2840-2850 fps. The speeds you want you may want to look into a 22br.

what powder and charge?

 

[jzerfoss]

what powder and charge?

PP2000MR 26.3grs, 205m primers, Nammo brass, 2840ish fps
*Disclaimer: May be dangerous in your rifle. Start lower*