-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
9 year old girl unintentional shoots and kills instructor with machinegun in Arizona
- Thread starter shoedo
- Start date
Very sad and hits me close to home. Thoughts and prayers for those involved.
Yet another reason why I choose to stand behind (especially, new) shooters instead of to their side.
From the video I'm going to make the assumption that the recoil drove the UZI up and left into the instructor's face before he could react. I'm going to also go out on a limb and say that he was probably watching bullet impacts down range instead of the girl and gun. Damn shame it couldn't have just ended with a close call instead of a fatal mistake.
Yet another reason why I choose to stand behind (especially, new) shooters instead of to their side.
From the video I'm going to make the assumption that the recoil drove the UZI up and left into the instructor's face before he could react. I'm going to also go out on a limb and say that he was probably watching bullet impacts down range instead of the girl and gun. Damn shame it couldn't have just ended with a close call instead of a fatal mistake.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Thus is no different than the morons that give a lady a 500s&w or 12ga w slugs and say "watch this."
I hate that this man died, but he put the little girls life at risk. Now someone will have to remind her the rest of her life that this wasn't her fault. I just hope she understands that.
I hate that this man died, but he put the little girls life at risk. Now someone will have to remind her the rest of her life that this wasn't her fault. I just hope she understands that.
Sad for everyone and the sport of shooting. It's hard to believe that the parents, instructor, and the people that own the place would let anyone under the age of 16 shoot machine guns. I mean really nine years old??
It sucks for all involved, the trauma to the kid as well. Proper ORM in these situations is a must.
Pure stupidity.
That would apply to the skills of the Instructor as well.
Instructors are "supposed" to be smarter than the rest. Apparently this was not the case here. This could well have been even more tragic if the fire had gone into a crowd.
It's a shame there's not an IQ test for gun instructors. That was just flat out stupid on his part and he clearly had no business instructing a child on a machine gun.
It's a shame he died from his own stupidity but better him than the little girl.
The last time I heard about one of these incidents the kid died when the machine gun (Uzi also I think) turned up in the kids hands and shot him through the head.
Very sad and totally preventable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's a shame he died from his own stupidity but better him than the little girl.
The last time I heard about one of these incidents the kid died when the machine gun (Uzi also I think) turned up in the kids hands and shot him through the head.
Very sad and totally preventable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Fuck that is awful.
Poor girl is going to have a hard time getting over killing someone. Kids and guns are OK if the kids and supervisors are good to go, but people should know better than to let someone who can barely wield a firearm shoot it on full-auto. Fucking recipe for disaster.
Poor girl is going to have a hard time getting over killing someone. Kids and guns are OK if the kids and supervisors are good to go, but people should know better than to let someone who can barely wield a firearm shoot it on full-auto. Fucking recipe for disaster.
Another black mark on responsible gun owners along with a little girl that will probably never recover from this. You really can't fix stupid.
this is a very sad and tragic event. having owned and operated a public shooting range for many years, I have seen many close calls with younger shooters. I found that parents don't use good judgment in many cases. I had to implement a rule on my range that no one under the age of 16yrs could shoot a hand gun, for that very reason. I had no issues from the shooters with this. My Range, My Rules! We sponsored 4H, Y hek, Boy and Girl scouts.
Some times shooters and instructor's make mistakes!!! terrible accident!!! Something for ALL OF US to learn from.
Some times shooters and instructor's make mistakes!!! terrible accident!!! Something for ALL OF US to learn from.
This tragic for all involved.
Isn't this very similar to teaching a 9 year old kid to drive in an 18-wheel truck? You don't start a young kid out on a full auto weapon...
Isn't this very similar to teaching a 9 year old kid to drive in an 18-wheel truck? You don't start a young kid out on a full auto weapon...
IMO, a 9yo girl has no place firing a full auto weapon, nor a boy that age for that matter. At that age, they need to be working on fundamentals and above all, safety. They need .22's at that age, maybe a single shot 20ga. That's what I had. Depending on maturity and evolution with what they started with, perhaps they can move up to an AR when they hit puberty --but it belongs to the dad of course, supervised use. And still, even at that age, they should be working on fundamentals still, maybe competing, maybe being introduced to their first high power.
Full auto is icing on the cake, as it were. Why give icing to a kid who hasn't even eaten his/her vegetables yet!
There are adults that can't handle that weapon, I bet my wife couldn't properly, but more over that weapon is a mini-Uzi (not the micro) if the pictures are correct and it does have much less weight and fires at a higher rpm than the regular Uzi, which MAY have been slightly more appropriate, if giving a child a full auto weapon is appropriate at all. I seriously doubt a 9yo girl simply has the strength to control such a weapon. That's really the bottom line I guess. Serious doubts about her ability to control it should have been raised.
There are two reasons for firing a full auto weapon in my view. One is for fun. Fun for seasoned, practiced and older firearms owners. Not for young kids. Then the other reason is to learn how to lay down suppressive fire or take or maintain fire superiority, and in certain instances, shooting on the move and clearing spaces. Generally military shit that 9yo's have no need to concern themselves with. It just gets in the way of the fundamentals they should be learning.
I really feel for the girl, I'm sure this has traumatized her greatly. I feel for the instructor's family too, but I wonder how he was brought up to think that was okay? Perhaps he was just trying to show kids that these aren't all evil so they'll know the truth when they grow up to vote? I've shown off my AR's with a suppressor before for that reason, to dispel the myths (to anti type grownups though).
Full auto is icing on the cake, as it were. Why give icing to a kid who hasn't even eaten his/her vegetables yet!
There are adults that can't handle that weapon, I bet my wife couldn't properly, but more over that weapon is a mini-Uzi (not the micro) if the pictures are correct and it does have much less weight and fires at a higher rpm than the regular Uzi, which MAY have been slightly more appropriate, if giving a child a full auto weapon is appropriate at all. I seriously doubt a 9yo girl simply has the strength to control such a weapon. That's really the bottom line I guess. Serious doubts about her ability to control it should have been raised.
There are two reasons for firing a full auto weapon in my view. One is for fun. Fun for seasoned, practiced and older firearms owners. Not for young kids. Then the other reason is to learn how to lay down suppressive fire or take or maintain fire superiority, and in certain instances, shooting on the move and clearing spaces. Generally military shit that 9yo's have no need to concern themselves with. It just gets in the way of the fundamentals they should be learning.
I really feel for the girl, I'm sure this has traumatized her greatly. I feel for the instructor's family too, but I wonder how he was brought up to think that was okay? Perhaps he was just trying to show kids that these aren't all evil so they'll know the truth when they grow up to vote? I've shown off my AR's with a suppressor before for that reason, to dispel the myths (to anti type grownups though).
IQ means nothing...
Common sence is everything... "Very sad and totally preventable." < Yes.
Here's the vid on livelink: LiveLeak.com - Nine-year-old Girl Fatally Shoots Instructor with Uzi
It's still cut out at the end, but is a bit longer so you can see exactly what happened. Recoil pushes the gun almost straight up immediately and a bit left.
It's still cut out at the end, but is a bit longer so you can see exactly what happened. Recoil pushes the gun almost straight up immediately and a bit left.
For those in the service or Vets, think about the amount of training we had to undergo before we even got to fire on semi auto, and then the additional training before automatic fire. A lot of soldiers can't even control a weapon on auto fire when in a foxhole supported on a sandbag. I have nothing against a range having automatic fire and certainly nothing against kids learning to shoot (I was 9 when I first fired a single barrel shotgun) but this situation was what my father used to call an accident waiting to happen!
This has been repeated too many times. We fail to learn from other's mistakes. It has'nt been that long ago that a young boy shot himself in the head with a full auto weapon because he couldn't control the recoil or release the trigger due to involuntary muscles holding on. STUPID!! It's not funny. Don't let inexperienced people shoot complicated guns. Some think it's macho....no...it's stupid. You got to be smarter than the gun, first thing. Some stupid guys think it's funny to watch their wives get the shit kicked out of them with their latest toy. It's disrespectful and insensitive. STOP IT!!!!!
As the subject of this thread clearly demonstrates...yes, in fact you CAN fix stupid.
Humor me....the wheels are running slow today.
OK......I get it now........been a long day.
Last edited:
Fx77,
I believe the operative term to the rules stated is "proper" supervision, which wasn't the case. But he was dressed "tactically-cool".
Small write-up (just the facts) in our local paper. No outcry.
My outcry is for the little girl. Burned forever.
One thing I've learned in the 55 yrs I've been around weapons: anyone who has touched a gun is an "expert".
I believe the operative term to the rules stated is "proper" supervision, which wasn't the case. But he was dressed "tactically-cool".
Small write-up (just the facts) in our local paper. No outcry.
My outcry is for the little girl. Burned forever.
One thing I've learned in the 55 yrs I've been around weapons: anyone who has touched a gun is an "expert".
Does that still count if she's an ex wife?
Back to the topic, the real culprit here is the range operator. He is more interested in what he can charge for the "thrill" of shooting a Full Auto weapon and doesn't want to limit the "customer base".
Something tells me that Insurance Underwriters everywhere are going to make some decisions for range operators after this accident. Either raising minimum age or requiring "chains" to be attached to the barrel/forend while shooting FA that won't allow the muzzle to go above horizontal.
I used to shoot subguns (owned several, built several through a friend's 07-FFL as post-May samples he kept), owned an Uzi carbine with an AWC suppressor/kevlar wrapped.
My son shot it and an M16 when he was 6 (seriously - he actually took the NRA range written test at 6-1/2 and passed it no problem). I knew the muzzle might rise on the Uzi and kept my hand over the suppressor. At least until he got the hang of it. And I'd put 2-5 rounds in the mags until he got it controlled and figured out how to operate the gun.
I don't think that girl had much if any training or experience and from the timing it looks like she pulled the trigger before he got himself situated.
Tragic, preventable. Darwin Award nominee for 2014.
Not to be the odd man out but damn..... Wait until the political shitstorm goes after her parents!!! That will only increase the trauma for the little girl. Im not privy to all the facts and I'm in no way condoning the fact that a 9 year old girl was handed an Uzi switched to fully auto. TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE by the parent ( or parents) and the instructor. Total tragedy that should not have happened.
I happened to look at CNN playing in the restaurant I was in tonight. Oh my god if I could reach through the tv. They said ''there needs to be a law passed". I agree there should be a law passed. Guests and anchors on cnn should have an I.Q. test before being allowed to speak. That would be a good law. Morons!
honestly i came to laugh at these douches. just like these guys handing little girls .44 snub nose revolvers then laughing. honestly when that girl is grown im sure shel'l hate douches just like that... dont care what you think about it.
At least it was not the kid that was killed. I remember a story from Florida where a kid was killed shooting a Mac 11. What happened to kids learning to shoot with a single shot .22?
If you watch that ending closely, he doesn't even get the fateful words "alright full-auto" fully out of his mouth and the disaster was already underway! The girl had no real idea what to anticipate, instantly lost control once she pulled that trigger(before the instructor expected it by the looks of things) and it was over just like that. Tragic...
Like others have said - this is the real-deal proof that guns are NOT toys. And letting a nine year-old, presumably with no firearm handling experience whatever, have at a full-auto sub-gun is indeed playing with fire!
Sad for all involved. I have had kids as young as 7 shoot a mac10 and m4 at the Rmfcsa machinegun shoots. I never let go of the gun. You have to maintain Control at all times. Even with older people you have to stand close ready to grab the gun as nearly everyone wants to turn around to smile at their friends. No amount of telling them beforehand about muzzle control matters. It is nearly without exception that it happens with inexpirenced shooters.
This is just so beyond stupid into the plain ludicrous range.
Full auto pistols do not belong in the hands of anyone without some serious hand/arm strength and a really good amount of firearm practice & understanding.
Of course those who hate our freedoms are dancing with glee at this own goal.
I feel sorry for the gun club, this is going to probably go badly for them for a bit.
I can't say I feel too sorry for the idiot who handed that kid the gun.
Full auto pistols do not belong in the hands of anyone without some serious hand/arm strength and a really good amount of firearm practice & understanding.
Of course those who hate our freedoms are dancing with glee at this own goal.
I feel sorry for the gun club, this is going to probably go badly for them for a bit.
I can't say I feel too sorry for the idiot who handed that kid the gun.
this is For those that have never handled a full auto uzi, add this tid bit to your "gun knowledge". This is a long read, if you don't have the attention span the next sentence is the key take away. The UZI IS NOT a proper fire arm. It is not in the same category as your AR, M16, AK47 etc... I wouldn't feel particularly comfortable around ANYONE with an UZI. Here's why. The UZI fires from an open bolt, the firing pin is literally machined into the bolt, a very heavy bolt under high spring tension. Most open bolt machine guns have a means to prevent premature firing be it length of the firing pin or locking block mechanism. there really is nothing keeping an uzi from firing out of battery. further A simple malfunction with the uzi can easily turn into a legitimate "accidental discharge". If you have a double feed the bolt is likely hung up right behind the mag, if you remove the magazine the bolt will go forward and discharge the round. Just putting the weapon into action is dicey. if you rack the bolt to the rear there is a flimsy ratchet system in place to catch it if you slip. this system often fails. if it does you will unintentionally fire. If the sear fails your gun will "run away" which is fine on a crew served weapon but a SMG?, not so good. If you have made it this far i will now make my point. with all that being said, an uzi, even under direct supervision is no weapon to hand off to a child. Given its inherent danger i put it a notch below throwing hand grenades.
I think this was part of the instructor's problem, as the girl had the stock out but it wasn't tight into her shoulder and she ended up shooting it like a handgun and not a shoulder fired weapon. If he was spotting the gun, and not her body, this may have ended a bit differently.
Sad story all around, but at least the instructor put himself close enough to the girl that she didn't end up shooting herself. My sympathies are with his family.
My boy learned with one shell in gun. Last year was his first year he was allowed two shells on a dove hunt. You can bet your ass I was directly behind him as well. This is a tragic event, but the graveyard is also full of people with no common sense.
All this is going to do is hurt us (good guys) in the long run. Fml [emoji17]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm thinking this isn't going to help PR at all:
NRA Tweets About Kids Having Fun At Shooting Range After Uzi Accident
NRA Tweets About Kids Having Fun At Shooting Range After Uzi Accident
I had a similar experience 4 years ago with a 14yr old girl and a mac 9. I was kneeling instead of standing. when she pulled the trigger the gun started to rise she started spinning to the left, I got my arm up and blocked the gun from coming around further . it was just luck. if I had been standing it may have been bad. not just for me but everyone that was sitting behind us. I know we all learned something that evening
