Looking to get a strictly fun range gun with low recoil.. I want something that is a tackdriver and don't care about size/weight etc. I have plenty of .45s and .22s so thought to go with the 9mm. I've read great things about the CZ offerings (have a 75b that is super accurate for duty gun) but was also thinking of maybe a 9mm 1911 STI single stack (can't afford the 2011s yet). Thoughts.. options.. suggestions?
Suppressors 9mm Tackdriver
- Thread starter Hawk45
- Start date
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Glock 35 (40 S&W), then get the 9mm conversion barrel for it (it'll be a little thicker and heavier that way), then on the conversion barrel get the ported one.
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1044
Ultra low recoil 9mm that way.
Or, just get a G34 and run it stock, but the above option will really make it an easy gun to shoot.
Glock 35 (40 S&W), then get the 9mm conversion barrel for it (it'll be a little thicker and heavier that way), then on the conversion barrel get the ported one.
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1044
Ultra low recoil 9mm that way.
Or, just get a G34 and run it stock, but the above option will really make it an easy gun to shoot.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Hell, just buy this one, has all you need. This pistol used to be mine and that 9mm conversion barrel ran flawless!!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1630164
Hell, just buy this one, has all you need. This pistol used to be mine and that 9mm conversion barrel ran flawless!!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1630164
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I just got a Walther P-99 AS in 9mm, you will either love the trigger or hate it, it is a SA/DA trigger system. It shoots very well for me.
I just got a Walther P-99 AS in 9mm, you will either love the trigger or hate it, it is a SA/DA trigger system. It shoots very well for me.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
The best 9mm out there (short of the SIG P210 and 1/5th the price) is the HK P7. You can get a recently imported "Saxony" P7PSP for around $600. If you want to pay more you can throw down $1200 for the M8 version of the P7 or around $1800 for the M13. It is the most accurate 9mm short of a "custom" gun.
I know this won't be popular but I wouldn't piss on a Glock if it was on fire!... and if it was it would be a useless molten blob! Unlike the P7 which is all steel!
The best 9mm out there (short of the SIG P210 and 1/5th the price) is the HK P7. You can get a recently imported "Saxony" P7PSP for around $600. If you want to pay more you can throw down $1200 for the M8 version of the P7 or around $1800 for the M13. It is the most accurate 9mm short of a "custom" gun.
I know this won't be popular but I wouldn't piss on a Glock if it was on fire!... and if it was it would be a useless molten blob! Unlike the P7 which is all steel!
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">STI Trojan 9mm
(yes I'm reposting this picture)
</div></div>
I have to admit... I like that!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">STI Trojan 9mm
(yes I'm reposting this picture)
I have to admit... I like that!
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love the grips! It needs a mag well. It looks like it's begging for the new Dawson ICE.</div></div>
Thanks
She's in the process of getting a C&S Ultra Light Speed II trigger pull set installed by Venry of Radical Precision Design.
I'm torn between getting a blended S&A magwell, and the Dawson ICE. There is IDPA and USPSA in my area, so I'd like to keep it legal for both.
I apologize to the OP about the hi-jack.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love the grips! It needs a mag well. It looks like it's begging for the new Dawson ICE.</div></div>
Thanks
I'm torn between getting a blended S&A magwell, and the Dawson ICE. There is IDPA and USPSA in my area, so I'd like to keep it legal for both.
I apologize to the OP about the hi-jack.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I think it depends what price range you want to stick to - you want to go steel frame instead of polymer if your looking for lower recoil. My preferences in 9mm:
HKP7M8 (8+1) NIB about $1500-1600, used $500-800, my opinion the most accurate 9mm, but not good for comps. because gas chamber makes it (slide) heat up after about 3 rapid fire magazines (even with heat shield); the combination of the gas chamber/blowback and the steel frame make it the sweetest to shoot
HKP7M13 (13+1) NIB about $1800, used (rare finds) 800-1000
CZSP01 - (16+1)NIB about $575
CZ75B - (14+1) NIB about $450-500 (as you mentioned)
CZP01 (compact) (8+1) NIB about $425-450
There are competition version of the two full-size CZ's, add 1K by the time their are tricked out; the tactical SP01 is sweet!
Baby Eagle 9mm (16+1) - NIB about $450-500
Sig225 (8+1) - NIB 600, harder to find
The next I don't own but have shot
Paraordnance - about $800-1200
STI - the ones I shot were more than 1K (yes were double stack)
I think it depends what price range you want to stick to - you want to go steel frame instead of polymer if your looking for lower recoil. My preferences in 9mm:
HKP7M8 (8+1) NIB about $1500-1600, used $500-800, my opinion the most accurate 9mm, but not good for comps. because gas chamber makes it (slide) heat up after about 3 rapid fire magazines (even with heat shield); the combination of the gas chamber/blowback and the steel frame make it the sweetest to shoot
HKP7M13 (13+1) NIB about $1800, used (rare finds) 800-1000
CZSP01 - (16+1)NIB about $575
CZ75B - (14+1) NIB about $450-500 (as you mentioned)
CZP01 (compact) (8+1) NIB about $425-450
There are competition version of the two full-size CZ's, add 1K by the time their are tricked out; the tactical SP01 is sweet!
Baby Eagle 9mm (16+1) - NIB about $450-500
Sig225 (8+1) - NIB 600, harder to find
The next I don't own but have shot
Paraordnance - about $800-1200
STI - the ones I shot were more than 1K (yes were double stack)
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I'm leaning towards a full steel frame gun since I won't be carrying it. I'm leaning mostly towards either the STI Trojan, Sig 226 Variant (X-Five Tactical with threaded barrel would be sweet) or one of the CZ SP-01 offerings.
I'm leaning towards a full steel frame gun since I won't be carrying it. I'm leaning mostly towards either the STI Trojan, Sig 226 Variant (X-Five Tactical with threaded barrel would be sweet) or one of the CZ SP-01 offerings.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I would either go with a 1911 in 9mm or look for a Glock 17 Long slide. I have owned both and they are a blast to shoot at the range. The Glock is ported,extremely accurate and soft shooting.
I would either go with a 1911 in 9mm or look for a Glock 17 Long slide. I have owned both and they are a blast to shoot at the range. The Glock is ported,extremely accurate and soft shooting.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I was intrigued by the Sig X five as well until I bought one of the newer 220 Match SA. I ran it side by side with my old West German 220 police trade in. They shot the same, but the old 220 felt smoother and did it a 1/3 the price. I'm assuming it's probably a similar comparison with the X-five.
. Oh well, more money for custom 1911's.
Believe it or not, you don't have to buy the "tactical" or "competition" model to get a super-accurate tack-driver. Any service-grade pistol (Glock, Sig, Beretta, CZ, 1911) with a trigger job, re-barrel, and maybe new sights will trump the a stock competition model more often than not in capable hands....and more often than not, you can save some coin too (depending on model, the smith, upgrades, and parts used). And that was the worst-case scenario; a good trigger will take you a long way.
I was intrigued by the Sig X five as well until I bought one of the newer 220 Match SA. I ran it side by side with my old West German 220 police trade in. They shot the same, but the old 220 felt smoother and did it a 1/3 the price. I'm assuming it's probably a similar comparison with the X-five.
Believe it or not, you don't have to buy the "tactical" or "competition" model to get a super-accurate tack-driver. Any service-grade pistol (Glock, Sig, Beretta, CZ, 1911) with a trigger job, re-barrel, and maybe new sights will trump the a stock competition model more often than not in capable hands....and more often than not, you can save some coin too (depending on model, the smith, upgrades, and parts used). And that was the worst-case scenario; a good trigger will take you a long way.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
XD9 from custom shop... My old man has the XD45 from custom shop and it shoots nice lil groups at 25 yards...
XD9 from custom shop... My old man has the XD45 from custom shop and it shoots nice lil groups at 25 yards...
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Well not quite sure what your definition of "Tack-Driver" is but I love my GLOCK 34.
.
To me its balance is one of the best I've shot (That includes Colt, Glock, Sig, Hk, Smith, Walther, Ruger, Kimber, STI)
.
After trying my lastest recipe I like it even more it flat out loved: 124 FMJ
5.6 PowerPistol
CCI Small Pistol Primer
.
Good luck
Well not quite sure what your definition of "Tack-Driver" is but I love my GLOCK 34.
.
To me its balance is one of the best I've shot (That includes Colt, Glock, Sig, Hk, Smith, Walther, Ruger, Kimber, STI)
.
After trying my lastest recipe I like it even more it flat out loved: 124 FMJ
5.6 PowerPistol
CCI Small Pistol Primer
.
Good luck
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">STI Trojan 9mm
(yes I'm reposting this picture)
</div></div>
Very nice grips, what kind are they?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">STI Trojan 9mm
(yes I'm reposting this picture)
Very nice grips, what kind are they?
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wilson Combat Spec Ops 9
tack driver </div></div> That is a good choice but I think the STI trojan seems a little more affordable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccoker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wilson Combat Spec Ops 9
tack driver </div></div> That is a good choice but I think the STI trojan seems a little more affordable.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I have a Glock 34, Springfield 1911, Browning Hi-Power and Springfield XDM, each in 9x19mm caliber; to me, they're all good pistols.
I have a Glock 34, Springfield 1911, Browning Hi-Power and Springfield XDM, each in 9x19mm caliber; to me, they're all good pistols.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROLEXrifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enough Said
</div></div>
Man, your gonna make me jealous. What the hell is that ????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROLEXrifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enough Said
Man, your gonna make me jealous. What the hell is that ????
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Man....... let me tell ya. I was on a 10 year quest for the "perfect 9mm". I even went as far as having a custom 9mm built on a Colt 1911. I alsways wanted something that could shoot9mm in the mid range velcities, and that's what my colt did. 124gr lead at about 800fps. To bad that's all it could shoot without blasting itself apart. And for $2K I was pissed.
I then went down the list of all teh hot factory 9's out there. Glock 17L & 34, S&W 952, STI Eagle 6.0, H&K P7 I rely don't think theres a 9mm I didnt try. At the end ofthe day I found this guy. An EAA Witness Limited. Based on A CZ this thing dollar for dollar was the best one I had. At about $1200 it did everything the 6.0 did, was more than the Glock was and is built like a tank. You want heavy, this is it! Any way, it's all optioned out including the aluminum grips and at 18+1 it does everything I need.
Great gun if you havent given EAA a chance.
Man....... let me tell ya. I was on a 10 year quest for the "perfect 9mm". I even went as far as having a custom 9mm built on a Colt 1911. I alsways wanted something that could shoot9mm in the mid range velcities, and that's what my colt did. 124gr lead at about 800fps. To bad that's all it could shoot without blasting itself apart. And for $2K I was pissed.
I then went down the list of all teh hot factory 9's out there. Glock 17L & 34, S&W 952, STI Eagle 6.0, H&K P7 I rely don't think theres a 9mm I didnt try. At the end ofthe day I found this guy. An EAA Witness Limited. Based on A CZ this thing dollar for dollar was the best one I had. At about $1200 it did everything the 6.0 did, was more than the Glock was and is built like a tank. You want heavy, this is it! Any way, it's all optioned out including the aluminum grips and at 18+1 it does everything I need.
Great gun if you havent given EAA a chance.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like an EAA Witness Limited. </div></div>
Winner Winner chicken dinner!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like an EAA Witness Limited. </div></div>
Winner Winner chicken dinner!
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Everything about it is awesome for grip and stance. The only thing that may trip some people up is teh trigger gaurd. If your a trigger gaurd cupper it takes some getting used too. because it is a straight 90 degree angle it can be hard to get your support hand pointer finger to rest comfortably. But again, that's only if your a trigger gaurd rider. Otherwise angle, grip, thumb support of safety, it's all good. I wont say perfect cause theres no such thing but it's onlt 2 steps behind it.
Everything about it is awesome for grip and stance. The only thing that may trip some people up is teh trigger gaurd. If your a trigger gaurd cupper it takes some getting used too. because it is a straight 90 degree angle it can be hard to get your support hand pointer finger to rest comfortably. But again, that's only if your a trigger gaurd rider. Otherwise angle, grip, thumb support of safety, it's all good. I wont say perfect cause theres no such thing but it's onlt 2 steps behind it.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Rolex, that is exactly my quest, a 9mm. I've been through many factory ones. EAA, any reccomendations on where to get one ?
The search continues....
Rolex, that is exactly my quest, a 9mm. I've been through many factory ones. EAA, any reccomendations on where to get one ?
The search continues....
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
You know, taht s a god question. I've worked for FFL's the last 10 years from one extent to another and NOT ONE ever carried the EAA Limited or Gold. ( gold is the next level up that has a comp on it and a few other minor tweeks.) They all carried the witness ot witness match. At the price point these guns are in I feel the FFL's always thought the comsumers would buck up the extra $$ and go with a better know brand. Good tough from a bussiness stand point but thats the reason why I think these gems are still underestimated. Unfortunalty I dought you'll be able to go into the average gun store and find an Elite or Gold but I bet you'll find a witness or witness match. I would 1st handle one of those as teh feel will be similar. You'll have a diffrent grip option with teh Elite or Gold but the jist will be similar. If the witness points well and feels good you might want to inquire about them ordering one for you. Otherwise it's gonna be tough to find one, and by find one I mean one in stock for you to hold prior to the purchase. Avaiabilty is there though!
Hope that helps.
BTW, I came across this one in an add in a local indiana gun forum. Wasnt even at a dealer! And I have access to about 16 good guns shoops in my area and 30 FFL's, none of them had this gun and most never even heard of it!
I'm not here to jump on the EAA band wagon, I still would NOT own lots of things they sell but this gun is a great one.
For teh record of all the 9's I have the 3 that get the nod to the range with consistancy are my H&K P7, G17L far from stock and the Witness.
You know, taht s a god question. I've worked for FFL's the last 10 years from one extent to another and NOT ONE ever carried the EAA Limited or Gold. ( gold is the next level up that has a comp on it and a few other minor tweeks.) They all carried the witness ot witness match. At the price point these guns are in I feel the FFL's always thought the comsumers would buck up the extra $$ and go with a better know brand. Good tough from a bussiness stand point but thats the reason why I think these gems are still underestimated. Unfortunalty I dought you'll be able to go into the average gun store and find an Elite or Gold but I bet you'll find a witness or witness match. I would 1st handle one of those as teh feel will be similar. You'll have a diffrent grip option with teh Elite or Gold but the jist will be similar. If the witness points well and feels good you might want to inquire about them ordering one for you. Otherwise it's gonna be tough to find one, and by find one I mean one in stock for you to hold prior to the purchase. Avaiabilty is there though!
Hope that helps.
BTW, I came across this one in an add in a local indiana gun forum. Wasnt even at a dealer! And I have access to about 16 good guns shoops in my area and 30 FFL's, none of them had this gun and most never even heard of it!
I'm not here to jump on the EAA band wagon, I still would NOT own lots of things they sell but this gun is a great one.
For teh record of all the 9's I have the 3 that get the nod to the range with consistancy are my H&K P7, G17L far from stock and the Witness.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
When I 1st got the pistol I did nothing to the sights as far as adjustment. I love shooting cards so all I did was run 2 cards out to 35 feet and start popping with wally world WWB 100round value pack ammo. The target on the left was teh 1st one I shot at. Within 10 rounds I got the feel of the gun and then I just started to have fun. Cause funs what its all about!!
When I 1st got the pistol I did nothing to the sights as far as adjustment. I love shooting cards so all I did was run 2 cards out to 35 feet and start popping with wally world WWB 100round value pack ammo. The target on the left was teh 1st one I shot at. Within 10 rounds I got the feel of the gun and then I just started to have fun. Cause funs what its all about!!
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like an EAA Witness Limited. </div></div>
It's a Tanfoglio actually. EAA just imports it, and adds crappy customer service.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like an EAA Witness Limited. </div></div>
It's a Tanfoglio actually. EAA just imports it, and adds crappy customer service.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Went to the range Sunday with some friends and while I mostly shoot Kimber 45's I decided to break out the two glock 17's I had in my safe. I had an abundance of 9mm and thought it would be good to save up some of my 45's. Had two junior teen shooters who never fired a handgun and by the end of the session I had them hitting 12" steel at 75 yards. Not everytime but frequently enough to make their dad's chest swell with pride! It was a good day for shooting and they were stock glocks. Makes me wonder why I don't take them out more. Now don't get me wrong, I would trade them both for that EAA (that is awesome looking!) but I was quite pleased with the glocks.
Went to the range Sunday with some friends and while I mostly shoot Kimber 45's I decided to break out the two glock 17's I had in my safe. I had an abundance of 9mm and thought it would be good to save up some of my 45's. Had two junior teen shooters who never fired a handgun and by the end of the session I had them hitting 12" steel at 75 yards. Not everytime but frequently enough to make their dad's chest swell with pride! It was a good day for shooting and they were stock glocks. Makes me wonder why I don't take them out more. Now don't get me wrong, I would trade them both for that EAA (that is awesome looking!) but I was quite pleased with the glocks.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keithtb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was quite pleased with the glocks. </div></div>
My mind set is use what you got, get proficient with it and have fun!!!!!
Come as you are, run what you brung!!!!!!!!!!
The day you don't have fun, it's time to call it quites as a sport. There are somethings firearm related that shouldnt bring a smile to your face.... we arent talking about that here!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keithtb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was quite pleased with the glocks. </div></div>
My mind set is use what you got, get proficient with it and have fun!!!!!
Come as you are, run what you brung!!!!!!!!!!
The day you don't have fun, it's time to call it quites as a sport. There are somethings firearm related that shouldnt bring a smile to your face.... we arent talking about that here!
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm leaning towards a full steel frame gun since I won't be carrying it. I'm leaning mostly towards either the STI Trojan, Sig 226 Variant (X-Five Tactical with threaded barrel would be sweet) or one of the CZ SP-01 offerings. </div></div>
I've got a Sig 226 X-Five Tactical and it is a very accurate 9mm. The single action trigger is crisp and the recoil is pretty tame due to the size of the gun. One of the more competition oriented X-Fives might be more accurate, but they are pricey.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm leaning towards a full steel frame gun since I won't be carrying it. I'm leaning mostly towards either the STI Trojan, Sig 226 Variant (X-Five Tactical with threaded barrel would be sweet) or one of the CZ SP-01 offerings. </div></div>
I've got a Sig 226 X-Five Tactical and it is a very accurate 9mm. The single action trigger is crisp and the recoil is pretty tame due to the size of the gun. One of the more competition oriented X-Fives might be more accurate, but they are pricey.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
Paid $2300 for my X five and it wasnt More accurate, mearly as accurate. I will give the fit and finish out of teh box to the X-5. But after some JB bore paste on teh rails and some TLC I would say teh Limited was right here. The overal finish though does go to teh X 5
Paid $2300 for my X five and it wasnt More accurate, mearly as accurate. I will give the fit and finish out of teh box to the X-5. But after some JB bore paste on teh rails and some TLC I would say teh Limited was right here. The overal finish though does go to teh X 5
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
I agree I would go with an EAA witness limited. For the money I don't believe there is anything better. I'm not a fan of Sig as the newer ones seem to be hit or miss, I have a p220 supermatch the trigger is heavy the grips fit like shit and the safety is temperamental. Overall very poor for a $1300 gun. But I have shot an EAA limited and would gladly trade my supermatch for one. But alas I have it so why not just get it running right? Soon it will go for Bruce Greys Competition Short Reset Package. I have already put Nill grips on it. So in less you want to spend extra $$ fixing a stock Sig don't get one. The only Sig I will ever get is a P210.
I agree I would go with an EAA witness limited. For the money I don't believe there is anything better. I'm not a fan of Sig as the newer ones seem to be hit or miss, I have a p220 supermatch the trigger is heavy the grips fit like shit and the safety is temperamental. Overall very poor for a $1300 gun. But I have shot an EAA limited and would gladly trade my supermatch for one. But alas I have it so why not just get it running right? Soon it will go for Bruce Greys Competition Short Reset Package. I have already put Nill grips on it. So in less you want to spend extra $$ fixing a stock Sig don't get one. The only Sig I will ever get is a P210.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say we ban him for that one...it's been bothering me. The polymer gods will not be pleased until action is taken against such a heretic.
</div></div>
Sorry guys... I knew that wouldn't be popular but I'm kinda' "old-school" and think "Plastic" is for "toy guns". Firearms should be made of more durable materials. As far as reliability goes, I know Glocks can't be beat and LE has counted on them for quite a while now. Accuracy hasn't impressed me either and that's what this post was about originally.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say we ban him for that one...it's been bothering me. The polymer gods will not be pleased until action is taken against such a heretic.
Sorry guys... I knew that wouldn't be popular but I'm kinda' "old-school" and think "Plastic" is for "toy guns". Firearms should be made of more durable materials. As far as reliability goes, I know Glocks can't be beat and LE has counted on them for quite a while now. Accuracy hasn't impressed me either and that's what this post was about originally.
Re: 9mm Tackdriver
umm...the picture has a nighthawk with a 45 mag
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
or
</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
or
</div></div>
umm...the picture has a nighthawk with a 45 mag
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
or
or
