Sidearms & Scatterguns 9MM - Walther PDP or ____________ ?

[treillw]

Finally thinking about adding a 9mm to the collection. I've heard that there is a ton of marketing hype behind the Walther PDP. When I discovered them, I had not seen a single ad for the them or even heard about them (I enjoy life under the rock). My buddy wanted to see what I thought of it, so I checked it out the the LGS. It was a really nice gun I thought. Great trigger, felt great in the hand, etc. Started watching videos about them and now I want one. Are there any other good 9mms out there that are nicer?

Also would consider the War Poet pistol.

I want it for appendix carry. Top criteria are the trigger, capacity, and concealability.

Thanks!

 

[swampbuck]

Nothing wrong with a Walther but for appendix carry I think a sa/da is much safer then striker fired. I would check out a CZ P-01 or P-07. Check out the Honest Outlaw YouTube videos. He makes some excellent points about a DA/SA being safer for appendix carry especially when re holstering for what it is worth.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

G19.5 MOS.

 

[Tbaxl]

Finally thinking about adding a 9mm to the collection. I've heard that there is a ton of marketing hype behind the Walther PDP. When I discovered them, I had not seen a single ad for the them or even heard about them (I enjoy life under the rock). My buddy wanted to see what I thought of it, so I checked it out the the LGS. It was a really nice gun I thought. Great trigger, felt great in the hand, etc. Started watching videos about them and now I want one. Are there any other good 9mms out there that are nicer?

Also would consider the War Poet pistol.

I want it for appendix carry. Top criteria are the trigger, capacity, and concealability.

Thanks!

I just bought a walther pdp. I think it is more comfortable in the hand and has a better trigger than glock or M&P. I typically shoot a m&p but decided to branch out and it has been good so far. Only downside is aftermarket support. I can’t find a optic plate for a holosun 509T. So one of the things I wanted to add to my pistol I can not currently.

 

[ruger35]

I have two PDP pistols and a shadow systems with Timney trigger (similar to the war port). I’ll take the Walther all day long. To me it’s more comfortable. Stock trigger is really smooth. Best thing about the SS pistols is they are Glock compatible on most parts.

 

[RedRockCharlie]

Walther PPQs and PDPs have some of the best triggers right out of the box! They're a bit big for appendix carry, IMO. Also, look at the HK VP9 line too. I agree with Swampbuck...check out the CZs. They are fantastic firearms.

 

[WindstormSCR]

for AIWB I'd say make sure you're going for something with a manual safety, striker fired or otherwise. Too many stories of accidents ending badly because someone got careless. Never understood the shift away from manual safties when they allow you to have a better trigger because you're not relying on trigger weight alone to save you from an "oops"

the PDP has one of the better triggers out of the box, but you can get any P320 to be either the same or very close with some aftermarket items, and still come in under the cost of a PDP.

Personally I like my M18 with an Armorycraft trigger and Apex trigger bar. Adjustable, Light, Crisp, everything it should be, and thanks to the safety I don't have to worry about putting a hole in my femoral artery if some cloth gets in the way of the holster just right.

 

[308pirate]

All these stories about striker fired guns without manual safeties being dangerous for appendix carry are bullshit.

I bet nobody on this thread can show evidence of one single person shooting himself with a striker pistol while holstering or drawing from appendix.

If you can't a) keep your finger off the trigger during the draw or reholster and b) make sure there isn't shit in the way of the pistol on its way to the holster, perhaps you shouldn't even carry one.

 

[308pirate]

Never understood the shift away from manual safties when they allow you to have a better trigger because you're not relying on trigger weight alone to save you from an "oops"

"Better triggers" are the excuse of those who can't or won't learn how to be precise and fast with any trigger.

Manual safeties are a crutch for the incompetent. "Oops" is synonym for incompetence.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Man Dies Attempting Appendix Carry Reholster In Milkwaukee

bearingarms.com

[WARNING GRAPHIC] Instructor Shoots Himself in the Leg While Holstering

A firearm instructor shot himself in the leg after investigating a noise in an alley behind his house. Let's take a closer look and learn from his mistakes.

www.usacarry.com

You were saying?

"Better triggers" are the excuse of those who can't or won't learn how to be precise and fast with any trigger.

Manual safeties are a crutch for the incompetent. "Oops" is synonym for incompetence.

a better trigger makes it easier to apply training under duress. this is like saying you should ruck a mile with underwear that puts your balls in a vice just because better underwear is “an excuse”

Tell that to the guy in the second link who had been doing shit for years and was well trained. it only takes one lapse due to fatigue or something else to have very permanent results.

calling manual safeties a “crutch for the incompetent” is beyond stupid. Why does your AR and pretty much every other long gun ever made have one then?

 

[308pirate]

Man Dies Attempting Appendix Carry Reholster In Milkwaukee

bearingarms.com

[WARNING GRAPHIC] Instructor Shoots Himself in the Leg While Holstering

A firearm instructor shot himself in the leg after investigating a noise in an alley behind his house. Let's take a closer look and learn from his mistakes.

www.usacarry.com

You were saying?


a better trigger makes it easier to apply training under duress. this is like saying you should ruck a mile with underwear that puts your balls in a vice just because better underwear is “an excuse”

Tell that to the guy in the second link who had been doing shit for years and was well trained. it only takes one lapse due to fatigue or something else to have very permanent results.

calling manual safeties a “crutch for the incompetent” is beyond stupid. Why does your AR and pretty much every other long gun ever made have one then?

Darwin cleaning the gene pool of incompetence Someone calling himself an "instructor" has zero relevance to me.

Your first guy. Don't look like an appendix IWB holster to me.

Your second example

Mr. Phonisay had only owned this hand gun for three months. It is probable that he did not have much training beyond that mandated to obtain a concealed carry permit in Wisconsin, and he almost certainly had no formal instruction in how to use an appendix carry holster. Use of a proper appendix carry holster and proper technique ensures that you will not point the firearm at your femoral artery.

Rifles have manual safeties because they have nothing else to hold the sear from releasing

 

[WindstormSCR]

Darwin cleaning the gene pool of incompetence

shall we put that on your headstone when you invariably have an accident due to your distaste for reasonable safety measures?

 

[308pirate]

shall we put that on your headstone when you invariably have an accident due to your distaste for reasonable safety measures?

You don't get to decide which safety measures are reasonable and which ones aren't. So let's put a picture of my ass on my headstone, so you can kneel and kiss it when you visit.

 

[WindstormSCR]

You don't get to decide which safety measures are reasonable and which ones aren't. So let's put a picture of my ass on my headstone, so you can kneel and kiss it when you visit.

Fair, my jab was a bit uncalled for. I guess we just have a significant difference of philosophy and style. At least they are not mutually exclusive.

Back on thread track, got any opinions on good 9mm carry guns?

 

[346ci]

Check out the Shield Plus

 

[308pirate]

Back on thread track, got any opinions on good 9mm carry guns?

CZ P-07 and Glock 19

I would add the CZ P-01 but getting them adapted for reflex sights is much more expensive than most so while it's an outstanding carry pistol, it's not near the top of my list.

Reflex optical sights are a non-negotiable must have for me.

 

[Baron85]

I recently picked up a sig 365 and a hellcat. Both are amazing for appendix. My wife ended up liking the 365 better and I liked the hellcat. I carried a Glock 19 for about a year appendix but it was never comfortable, just to thick. The hellcat is better, still not comfortable when sitting but it’s just so much easier for me to conceal vs 4 o’clock for me.

 

[TheBigCountry]

All these stories about striker fired guns without manual safeties being dangerous for appendix carry are bullshit.

I bet nobody on this thread can show evidence of one single person shooting himself with a striker pistol while holstering or drawing from appendix.

If you can't a) keep your finger off the trigger during the draw or reholster and b) make sure there isn't shit in the way of the pistol on its way to the holster, perhaps you shouldn't even carry one.

I know someone who actually did just that, with a Glock....YMMV

 

[TheBigCountry]

OP, get a CZ P07

 

[308pirate]

I know someone who actually did just that, with a Glock....YMMV

How did he do it?

 

[TheBigCountry]

Went to re-holster and it went bang. Got him the million-dollar wound; right in the butt

 

[308pirate]

Went to re-holster and it went bang. Got him the million-dollar wound; right in the butt

I've re-holstered loaded pistols hundreds (maybe thousands) of times since 2006 and I haven't shot myself yet.

What I meant with my question is what kind of stupid thing did he do to shoot himself? Did he have his finger on the trigger? Did he slam the pistol into the holster without looking (instead of looking, making sure holster was clear, and slowly easing the pistol into it)?

 

[RayDBonz]

Another vote for Sig 365 family.

 

[Maverick3009]

I'm gonna throw in a vote for CZ P-10, many say that the Czech's took a Glock and fixed all the issues from the factory, has metal sights, great trigger from the factory, ambi mag Release, etc. The aftermarket for them has grown in the past few years so you can tailor it has you see fit.

 

[Milf Dots]

Raven, Lorcin, Jennings- for the win.

 

[Milf Dots]

Here's a tip for those who think they need a manual safety for AIWB carry: how about just pulling the holster from your body, then reholstering the pistol, before placing the rig back on your body.

 

[Yoteski]

Review I posted in a different thread:

Well, I decided WTH and ordered a full size Walther PDP 5". Came in today and I took it out this evening and put about 100 rounds through it. I haven't ever owned a Walther, and I have to say, this one impressed me. I didn't know if I'd like the seemingly higher bore than I'm used to, but I put my first shot touching the center bullseye of a shoot n' see at 10 yards. Stacked rounds in the center with the rest of the mag.
Went to some transition drills on a 5" and 8" plate at 10 yards and I kid you not, I never missed. I was doing quick transitions.
The trigger is incredible. The best I've felt in a factory gun. It's basically a two-stage. No gritty take-up to the wall, wall is a crisp break and the reset is incredibly short. The stippling is extremely well thought out and executed.
A couple negatives is the gun is pretty snappy, even with the 5" barrel/slide. It returns incredibly well though. Definitely more of a handful than a full steel gun. The sights are Glock poly sights; yuck. They were spot on though and it's an easy upgrade where it takes Glock sights; smart play by Walther. I'll probably run the factory sights for awhile. I'll eventually outfit it with a red dot. I have a match coming up in two weeks (CD BOTC) where it's USPSA limited, so no dots allowed.
Ran perfect with Blazer 115 FMJ, S&B 124 FMJ, and my reloads with 124's. Have a Black Scorpion holster and some mags inbound. This pistol has really impressed me early on. I always shoot Glocks to the left, yes it's a me/grip thing. This is point of aim, point of impact. I wish I had an extra 500 rounds laying around to run it hard and fast. I guess I'll put it through the paces in the match a couple weeks from now. I'm going to try and get another 100 or so through it before. One of these years I'll break down and purchase a Stacatto, but this will tide me over for now. It's going to take a lot to impress me with reliability compared to the Glocks I've had. It's a super fun gun thus far and seems like a great value.

 

[Milf Dots]

Review I posted in a different thread:

Well, I decided WTH and ordered a full size Walther PDP 5". Came in today and I took it out this evening and put about 100 rounds through it. I haven't ever owned a Walther, and I have to say, this one impressed me. I didn't know if I'd like the seemingly higher bore than I'm used to, but I put my first shot touching the center bullseye of a shoot n' see at 10 yards. Stacked rounds in the center with the rest of the mag.
Went to some transition drills on a 5" and 8" plate at 10 yards and I kid you not, I never missed. I was doing quick transitions.
The trigger is incredible. The best I've felt in a factory gun. It's basically a two-stage. No gritty take-up to the wall, wall is a crisp break and the reset is incredibly short. The stippling is extremely well thought out and executed.
A couple negatives is the gun is pretty snappy, even with the 5" barrel/slide. It returns incredibly well though. Definitely more of a handful than a full steel gun. The sights are Glock poly sights; yuck. They were spot on though and it's an easy upgrade where it takes Glock sights; smart play by Walther. I'll probably run the factory sights for awhile. I'll eventually outfit it with a red dot. I have a match coming up in two weeks (CD BOTC) where it's USPSA limited, so no dots allowed.
Ran perfect with Blazer 115 FMJ, S&B 124 FMJ, and my reloads with 124's. Have a Black Scorpion holster and some mags inbound. This pistol has really impressed me early on. I always shoot Glocks to the left, yes it's a me/grip thing. This is point of aim, point of impact. I wish I had an extra 500 rounds laying around to run it hard and fast. I guess I'll put it through the paces in the match a couple weeks from now. I'm going to try and get another 100 or so through it before. One of these years I'll break down and purchase a Stacatto, but this will tide me over for now. It's going to take a lot to impress me with reliability compared to the Glocks I've had. It's a super fun gun thus far and seems like a great value.

RE your comment- people will think you're the original poster. Also, it's considered poor manners to duplicate post.

 

[Yoteski]

RE your comment- people will think you're the original poster. Also, it's considered poor manners to duplicate post.

Sooo....I'm supposed to retype a review I wrote? What are you talking about? He wanted to know about a Walther PDP and I just wrote a review.

 

[treillw]

Sooo....I'm supposed to retype a review I wrote? What are you talking about? He wanted to know about a Walther PDP and I just wrote a review.

Thanks for providing that. It was helpful.

 

[treillw]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the 43x. Same capacity with the 15 round aftermarket flush mags and a smaller size.

I doubt that the trigger is as good as the PDP though.

 

[treillw]

Anyone know the grip angle on the PDP? Not easy to find online.

 

[CaptNemo]

I have a PPQ and would consider selling or trading towards a PDP, or hell, just buy one to keep the PPQ company...
last time I checked Walther didn't offer a Threaded Barrel option, but the PPQ Threaded barrel is a drop-in fit.

 

[Yoteski]

I have a PPQ and would consider selling or trading towards a PDP, or hell, just buy one to keep the PPQ company...
last time I checked Walther didn't offer a Threaded Barrel option, but the PPQ Threaded barrel is a drop-in fit.

They have a threaded option coming out.

 

[CaptNemo]

They have a threaded option coming out.

Good to know - that should have been a "Day One' Option.

 

[strikeeagle1]

The 9mm Walther's are great production firearms. I have thousands of rounds thru the PPQM2 and PDP. Both with very good factory
trigger feel. Only a couple of regrets: the M2 changed from a paddle style (M1) mag release to a cross bolt style and both have too long a slide release lever that inadvertently will lock the slide back with rapid fire due (well recognized issue, google it) to support hand thumb contact; shortened to a length that was the same as a Glock17 / M&P9 distance from the backstrap, resolved the problem. Shortened the slide release on the left side on both models to resolve the issue. Both very accurate @ 25 yards with common ammunition. Virtual ergonomic clones of HK VP9 / P30, not surprising due to their common German influence.Use Safariland holsters for both. I would not choose them for IWB carry options.

Using a tripod to zero a red dot pistol is the bomb.

The PPQM2 is a virtual ergonomic clone of the HK VP9 and P30.

.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

How does one accomplish an ND re-holstering any type of pistol? Serious question.

Another vote for the Hellcat. There's a couple trigger mods available.

 

[Baron85]

Get some of their shirt in the trigger guard as the re holster, finger on the trigger as they holster. 2 I can think of.

 

[SCGunner84]

The 9mm Walther's are great production firearms. I have thousands of rounds thru the PPQM2 and PDP. Both with very good factory
trigger feel. Only a couple of regrets: the M2 changed from a paddle style (M1) mag release to a cross bolt style and both have too long a slide release lever that inadvertently will lock the slide back with rapid fire due (well recognized issue, google it) to support hand thumb contact; shortened to a length that was the same as a Glock17 / M&P9 distance from the backstrap, resolved the problem. Shortened the slide release on the left side on both models to resolve the issue. Both very accurate @ 25 yards with common ammunition. Virtual ergonomic clones of HK VP9 / P30, not surprising due to their common German influence.Use Safariland holsters for both. I would not choose them for IWB carry options.

Using a tripod to zero a red dot pistol is the bomb.

The PPQM2 is a virtual ergonomic clone of the HK VP9 and P30.

.View attachment 7891966View attachment 7891967View attachment 7891968View attachment 7891972View attachment 7891973View attachment 7891974

What’s your setup you have going on there for zeroing your dots?

 

[strikeeagle1]

What’s your setup you have going on there for zeroing your dots?

I find using the tripod a pretty stable situation for zeroing the optics and consistency of comparing ammunition accuracy for each one.
Use either the Manfrotto 322 RC2 or 054 magnesium ballhead / RRS-Anvil 30 tripod connections.
The Hellcat has a Romeo Zero optic with Apex trigger.

 

[strikeeagle1]

How does one accomplish an ND re-holstering any type of pistol? Serious question.

A long list, but a caution related to common outdoor clothing.

The draw strings on outer jacket wear, especially the ones with plastic balls on the ends get entangled in the trigger guard and pull the trigger as the firearm is being seated.

 

[SCGunner84]

I find using the tripod a pretty stable situation for zeroing the optics and consistency of comparing ammunition accuracy for each one.
Use either the Manfrotto 322 RC2 or 054 magnesium ballhead / RRS-Anvil 30 tripod connections.
The Hellcat has a Romeo Zero optic with Apex trigger.

View attachment 7892094View attachment 7892095View attachment 7892096View attachment 7892097View attachment 7892098View attachment 7892099

Thanks for the info. I’ll have to give that a try

 

[treillw]

I find using the tripod a pretty stable situation for zeroing the optics and consistency of comparing ammunition accuracy for each one.
Use either the Manfrotto 322 RC2 or 054 magnesium ballhead / RRS-Anvil 30 tripod connections.
The Hellcat has a Romeo Zero optic with Apex trigger.

View attachment 7892094View attachment 7892095View attachment 7892096View attachment 7892097View attachment 7892098View attachment 7892099

I'm curious if you have a POA/POI shift and the same precision once removing the gun from the tripod?

The tripod is similar to a lead sled in that stops the gun from naturally recoiling and changes harmonics, which throws things off in rifles.

Might not be as severe shooting a handgun a fraction of rifle distances though....

 

[Forrest84]

I carried and shot glock 19’s and 34’s in IDPA and USPSA for for 14 years and I tried a PDP and P320 recently and no shit after 10 rounds out of a PDP compact I went home and putt all of me and my wife’s glocks and Zevs up for sale. We now have each a full size pdp with a holosun, factory performance trigger with the springs enhanced springs and Floyd’s magwells and they are phenomenal guns. My carry is a PDP compact with factory performance trigger, Floyd’s mag well and base pads and TLR 7. I’ll putt an aluminum back strap on it and a call it hood. I ran drills with it this weekend again for a few hundred rounds and I simply cannot putt this gun in the same league as a custom Glock 19 even close

 

[treillw]

View attachment 7892165I carried and shot glock 19’s and 34’s in IDPA and USPSA for for 14 years and I tried a PDP and P320 recently and no shit after 10 rounds out of a PDP compact I went home and putt all of me and my wife’s glocks and Zevs up for sale. We now have each a full size pdp with a holosun, factory performance trigger with the springs enhanced springs and Floyd’s magwells and they are phenomenal guns. My carry is a PDP compact with factory performance trigger, Floyd’s mag well and base pads and TLR 7. I’ll putt an aluminum back strap on it and a call it hood. I ran drills with it this weekend again for a few hundred rounds and I simply cannot putt this gun in the same league as a custom Glock 19 even close

Any trouble seeing the iron sights with the height of that optic? I suspect the optic base plate puts it up higher than it would be with a milled slide cut on another gun.

 

[treillw]

View attachment 7892165I carried and shot glock 19’s and 34’s in IDPA and USPSA for for 14 years and I tried a PDP and P320 recently and no shit after 10 rounds out of a PDP compact I went home and putt all of me and my wife’s glocks and Zevs up for sale. We now have each a full size pdp with a holosun, factory performance trigger with the springs enhanced springs and Floyd’s magwells and they are phenomenal guns. My carry is a PDP compact with factory performance trigger, Floyd’s mag well and base pads and TLR 7. I’ll putt an aluminum back strap on it and a call it hood. I ran drills with it this weekend again for a few hundred rounds and I simply cannot putt this gun in the same league as a custom Glock 19 even close

How hard is it to conceal? How do you carry it?

 

[308pirate]

I'm curious if you have a POA/POI shift and the same precision once removing the gun from the tripod?

The tripod is similar to a lead sled in that stops the gun from naturally recoiling and changes harmonics, which throws things off in rifles.

These concerns don't apply to handguns

 

[308pirate]

Any trouble seeing the iron sights with the height of that optic? I suspect the optic base plate puts it up higher than it would be with a milled slide cut on another gun.

Iron sights are pretty pointless on a defensive pistol equipped with an RDS. It's relatively easy to land effective COM hits at distances up to 12 - 15 yards just using a good index and the RDS lens as a rough aperture. The smaller the RDS lens, the easier it is to do. This is the context of a private person carrying for self defense. You might ask, what about longer distances? I can't think of an instance in which you would be presented with a threat beyond 15 yards, that you can articulate a reason to engage, and at the same time your optic dies.

Cops and soldiers, a different story. They have a duty to close in and engage. I don't.

 

[Milf Dots]

Sooo....I'm supposed to retype a review I wrote? What are you talking about? He wanted to know about a Walther PDP and I just wrote a review.

You should've just posted a link to it.

 

[Milf Dots]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the 43x. Same capacity with the 15 round aftermarket flush mags and a smaller size.

I doubt that the trigger is as good as the PDP though.

The 43x is a fine pistol, but the aftermarket 15 round mags you mentioned aren't ready for prime time when used for more than low volume target shooting, even with the optional but mandatory aftermarket mag release.

A search of the internet shows problems even with the newest versions when the mags are used for moderate to high volume round counts and under realistic training conditions. Simply put, Glock OEM mags for the 43x/48 are more reliable for EDC, and many comments on the 'net show people relegating the aftermarket 15 rounders to training only.

I can't remember a time prior to this when the gun community included the mention of an aftermarket magazine in order to give a pistol more "round count credibility"- it's a great 10+1 pistol and there's nothing wrong with that in the subcompact pistol category.