A&D Scale Upgrade -Buy or Wait?

[Woolsocks]

Hello. Newbie reloader. I’m currently using an RCBS 304 scale, but thinking about an upgrade to digital. I’m finding to get loads accurate to 1/10th of a grain I need to really finesse the balance beam scale. The eye strain gets to you…

Here’s the rub. I can’t afford a magnetic force restoration scale. I’m loading maybe 200 rounds per year tops, so I’m keeping my equipment simple.

I’m eyeballing the A&D EJ-120, since $200 is more in my price range. What’s your thoughts on a simple strain scale? Is it going to drift enough during a load session to cause either safety issues (off by a grain) or accuracy issues (off by a tenth of a grain).

With my low volume loading I don’t need auto trickling. I’d be fine checking the scale with a weight every 5 or 10 loads to make sure it hasn’t drifted. I do want good accuracy though. If a $200 digital strain scale can’t be trusted, even if you check it every 5-10 loads, I’m probably better off sticking with my balance beam.

 

[Kfive73]

I just looked up digital scale prices, seems like they went up a bit from a few years ago.

Love my AD 120i, for accuracy and no eye strain. But damn they got expensive.

Have you thought about putting a magnifier and maybe a mirror on your set up? Should help with eye strain and hunching over to see the lines meeting up. You could also get a calibrated weight or 2 just to make sure you’re zeroed and accurate.

For 200 ish rounds a year, I wouldn’t put down the money for a big upgrade

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I don't know anything about this seller, but that price looks to be about the same as always

A&D FX-120i

The A&D FX-i Series FX-120i Digital Precision Scale has a 122 gram capacity with 0.001 gram resolution and has 14 weighing modes including counting and percent weighing. Standard features include stainless steel platform, RS232, draft shield and more...

www.oldwillknottscales.com

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Even better, and recommended by somebody here on snipers hide (thread is in next post)

A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g

A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48

ceproducts.shop

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Does A&D 120i scale make a big difference?

For those who upgraded to this scale after using a +/-1 0.1 grain scale, did you see noticeable improvements in your ES & SD after upgrading? If you had the "before" and "after" numbers, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Woolsocks]

I guess the other question is - do these hold value? Looks like it’s pretty easy to get a used one for $450-500 so I could try it for awhile and sell it if it’s not improving things. Not sure how scale technology works. Is an FX 120i still going to hold resale for awhile, or are they like chrono’s bows and scopes - new tech comes out every few years and makes the old tech go on a firesale…

 

[Kfive73]

When I bought mine, 2-3 years ago, CEproducts had a sale on them for $450 (new). Maybe sign up for their mailing list for updates. I trickle by hand (don’t load enough to justify the expensive auto set ups). But I think the accuracy and ease of use and display was worth every penny compared to squinting at a beam scale all the time. Even when trickling by hand, I can charge and seat bullets for 100 rounds in an hour to hour and half

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I trickle by hand (don’t load enough to justify the expensive auto set ups). But I think the accuracy and ease of use and display was worth every penny compared to squinting at a beam scale all the time. Even when trickling by hand, I can charge and seat bullets for 100 rounds in an hour to hour and half

A little off topic here, but what does this mean, trickle by hand? What do you use?

 

[Kfive73]

Pour the bulk charge with a basic RCBS powder throw, then trickle into the charge with a basic powder trickler. I just swapped out the aluminum straw with a longer one I got from amazon

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

LOL, I never even saw one of those before. I am going off to look for one now. I have an RCBS Chargemaster link.

UPDATE: They are cheap, too. $20-30

Interesting

 

[Woolsocks]

Sounds like the lower end A&D scales are not worth having. Guess I’ll keep the beam scale until it’s time to upgrade to something like an FX 120

 

[ShtrRdy]

A year or two ago I got tired of my electronic scale always drifting and seeming to have hysteresis so I went to using a beam scale. That helped a lot but like you say, the beam scale has it's own sot of cautions. I finally bought a Fx-120i and have been using it for a week. All I can say is WOW, what a difference in measuring the weight of something.

 

[Woolsocks]

A year or two ago I got tired of my electronic scale always drifting and seeming to have hysteresis so I went to using a beam scale. That helped a lot but like you say, the beam scale has it's own sot of cautions. I finally bought a Fx-120i and have been using it for a week. All I can say is WOW, what a difference in measuring the weight of something.

Curios, were you successful getting low ES/SD with the beam scale? I’m wondering what I can reasonably expect from it.

 

[straightshooter1]

Curios, were you successful getting low ES/SD with the beam scale? I’m wondering what I can reasonably expect from it.

I, for one, did not get low SD's (like mid teens) with my beam scale, even when I got it set up where I could differentiate a kernel of Varget. It was just not as consistence as I had hoped for and it took a lot of time to get a good weigh. Going to an FX-120i was a big improvement immediately bringing my SD's into the single digits. . . AND, it was way faster to get a good weigh. I really didn't want to spend that much on a scale, but I am very happy that I did.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Curios, were you successful getting low ES/SD with the beam scale? I’m wondering what I can reasonably expect from it.

While I didn't do a careful test to see if there is a difference I do believe my SD is better. The SD's have been single digit for a load the rifle likes. While developing a load you'll see SD's that are larger and smaller. I don't understand why this is but it's something I've noticed.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I, for one, did not get low SD's (like mid teens) with my beam scale, even when I got it set up where I could differentiate a kernel of Varget. It was just not as consistence as I had hoped for and it took a lot of time to get a good weigh. Going to an FX-120i was a big improvement immediately bringing my SD's into the single digits. . . AND, it was way faster to get a good weigh. I really didn't want to spend that much on a scale, but I am very happy that I did.

When I was using the beam scale I had to recognize some nuances of the scale I had - a Redding Model 2. It was actually a little finicky until I set it up a certain way and used it that way each time. Then I could tell the difference between 0.05 grain.

 

[JerkyFreak]

I, for one, did not get low SD's (like mid teens) with my beam scale, even when I got it set up where I could differentiate a kernel of Varget. It was just not as consistence as I had hoped for and it took a lot of time to get a good weigh. Going to an FX-120i was a big improvement immediately bringing my SD's into the single digits. . . AND, it was way faster to get a good weigh. I really didn't want to spend that much on a scale, but I am very happy that I did.

If your SD's improved by going from the beam balance to the FX, there was something wrong with your technique or the beam scale. The only beam balance I've ever used is a Lee and that gave me precision to within 0.05gr as measured on a FX-120. And Lee is considered to be inferior to other brands...

An easy way for old eyes is to setup an old webcam and laptop to watch the pointer.

 

[Woolsocks]

watched a YouTube video on this by “winning the wind”. For what it’s worth, the guy who did the video found he could get more accuracy from the FX-120i than a beam scale. But the level of accuracy improvement was less than a tenth of a grain. He noted that the effect of better powder accuracy of that small effect would be really hard to quantify, since there’s so many other variables at play. Yes, a tenth of a grain matters, but how much it matters is difficult to say because it depends on how many other little things are adding to/cancelling out your slight variations in powder charge.

So yeah, sounds like there’s a good chance I’d improve my ES/SD with the FX-120i. With that said, a tenth of a grain +\- in my powder loads (between 75-80 grains) can’t be much - a few FPS. I’d imagine figuring out neck tension and sorting by case volume is a better way to spend my time for now.

So for me, I think switching to a digital scale would be about convenience, not primarily accuracy. Sounds like improving powder load perfection by tiny amounts is about 3-4 places down my list in terms of getting good ES/SD.

 

[spife7980]

So for me, I think switching to a digital scale would be about convenience, not primarily accuracy.

That’s exactly what it’s about. Team it with an autotrickler and you get the top level performance with bottom level effort and time expended.

 

[straightshooter1]

When I was using the beam scale I had to recognize some nuances of the scale I had - a Redding Model 2. It was actually a little finicky until I set it up a certain way and used it that way each time. Then I could tell the difference between 0.05 grain.

You're right, it takes some getting to understand the nuances of a beam scale. It took me a few weeks to figure my scale out, like: setting the pan on it at the same position; keeping the orientation of the arm to the bearing the same; getting it to oscillate the same way each time; keeping the bearing surface clean. . . etc. And to see the smallest movement, I set up a webcam to view a close up of the pointer on a screen that helped see movement with the smallest kernel of powder.

 

[straightshooter1]

If your SD's improved by going from the beam balance to the FX, there was something wrong with your technique or the beam scale. The only beam balance I've ever used is a Lee and that gave me precision to within 0.05gr as measured on a FX-120. And Lee is considered to be inferior to other brands...

An easy way for old eyes is to setup an old webcam and laptop to watch the pointer.

Yeah, I used the webcam method and that did help my old eyes. When I got my FX-120i, I never did test the beam scale with it. Maybe I'll do that one day as I still have the scale. I just could never get the consistency that I have with the 120. . . and the time it took to get a good weigh on the beam scale was just too much (or maybe I'm just spoiled now ).

 

[Woolsocks]

That’s exactly what it’s about. Team it with an autotrickler and you get the top level performance with bottom level effort and time expended.

Yep. So after I spend eons of time working up a load, I’ll be permanently camped at the range doping. Then ill spend a week or two trudging around desert canyons trying to find an elk. If I’m lucky, I’ll get to end the trip by permanently damaging my spine packing an 800 lb animal out of said desert right about the time it starts pouring rain. Im sure as I’m crawling up a 45 degree angle in the mud with 150 pounds of meat on my back, my exact thought will be “I’m so glad I got the digital scale to make all this so very easy!!”

 

[straightshooter1]

Yep. So after I spend eons of time working up a load, I’ll be permanently camped at the range doping. Then ill spend a week or two trudging around desert canyons trying to find an elk. If I’m lucky, I’ll get to end the trip by permanently damaging my spine packing an 800 lb animal out of said desert right about the time it starts pouring rain. Im sure as I’m crawling up a 45 degree angle in the mud with 150 pounds of meat on my back, my exact thought will be “I’m so glad I got the digital scale to make all this so very easy!!”

You just reminded me why I no longer hunt at my advanced age (77). . . unless a youngster is willing to come along to do the heavy lifting. I'm good for a day of mountain hiking, but then it take a couple weeks to recover.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Hello. Newbie reloader. I’m currently using an RCBS 304 scale, but thinking about an upgrade to digital. I’m finding to get loads accurate to 1/10th of a grain I need to really finesse the balance beam scale. The eye strain gets to you…

Here’s the rub. I can’t afford a magnetic force restoration scale. I’m loading maybe 200 rounds per year tops, so I’m keeping my equipment simple.

I’m eyeballing the A&D EJ-120, since $200 is more in my price range. What’s your thoughts on a simple strain scale? Is it going to drift enough during a load session to cause either safety issues (off by a grain) or accuracy issues (off by a tenth of a grain).

With my low volume loading I don’t need auto trickling. I’d be fine checking the scale with a weight every 5 or 10 loads to make sure it hasn’t drifted. I do want good accuracy though. If a $200 digital strain scale can’t be trusted, even if you check it every 5-10 loads, I’m probably better off sticking with my balance beam.

Everything about a beam scale, in my mind boils down to one specific requirement. It must be at eye level. It is a major help if it is close enough to “easily” see without bending or resorting to artificial methods. Magnifying lens will help, so can’t say that’s not a good idea. However, it has to meet these two criteria (eye level and close) or it is a real physical pain.

 

[spife7980]

Yep. So after I spend eons of time working up a load, I’ll be permanently camped at the range doping. Then ill spend a week or two trudging around desert canyons trying to find an elk. If I’m lucky, I’ll get to end the trip by permanently damaging my spine packing an 800 lb animal out of said desert right about the time it starts pouring rain. Im sure as I’m crawling up a 45 degree angle in the mud with 150 pounds of meat on my back, my exact thought will be “I’m so glad I got the digital scale to make all this so very easy!!”

I guess by that notion alone then absolutely lol
But Im thinking of the 1500 practice rounds I would put down range beforehand and the thousands after

 

[Highbrass]

This may or may not be helpful..
For the longest I have used a Gempro 200. They have been out of production for some time, however, they do come up for sale on occasion. I did buy the FX120 a little over a year ago and it is a game changer. If the Gempro is warmed up and calibrated it has never been more than .01 gr. Off from the FX. And both can drift slightly over time.
Ihave seen the Gempro on E-Bay for around $150.
Just remember if you have issues, getting it fixed may be a problem.

 

[SalomonQST99]

US Solid sells a pretty good scale. Amazon has them for $167. US Solid Scale It's not a FX120i scale, but it still does pretty good.