A few lessons today...

[SpookyPistolero]

I can run a pistol pretty well, and do OK with an AR on the run, but I'm just getting into bench shooting and suck something fierce. I'm not sure why certain fundamentals don't seem to be crossing over. It feels like starting from scratch. Today I got more settled and tried some new things.

The first was getting directly behind the gun, instead of off to the side like the bench can promote. This is how I run my ARs. Second, I tried to focus completely on follow through and calling my shots. Little by little I think these two things made dramatic differences. My accuracy looks like a shotgun so far, but today I was able to clean up groups to a best five shot of 0.7" . I'm still struggling not to have a flinch from the rest of my body (basically my upper body tenses up at the time of the shot, and the muscle twitch throws the shot). This has been tough to beat for some reason.

Late in the day I also realized I'm not doing a good job of keeping my trigger finger off the stock, and not wrapping my thumb around the stock. I think this is leading to messy shots.

Anyone with thoughts or tips is most welcome to comment! Otherwise, this may just be a running log of my progress.

 

[AZ.noob]

Nice lookin' rig
I've experimented a bit with my thumb wrapped around the stock vs. just 'resting' it on top parallel to the barrel... I haven't seen any measurable differences between the two. I'm interested to see what others who are far more qualified to answer than I, have to say on that.

Tried any different loads? Do you handload?

 

[SpookyPistolero]

I actually just had to shoot with what I've been able to find. The 0.7" group was shot with Federal/Amer Eagle 150gr rounds. I had one box of Fed gold match 175gr that grouped better, but I didn't want to waste it with my mediocre shooting. Once the pipeline opens back up I'm going to start rolling my own.

 

[proneshooter]

My first tip is to get that rifle off the bench and put it on the floor. Get used to shooting prone from the get go. When I shot an AR-15 service rifle in highpower, I did all my load development from prone using the rifle's iron sights and sling because an AR-15A2 is a bitch to scope and a PITA to shoot well from a bench.

All that time on the ground behind the rifle made the learning curve out on the range (where there are no benches) a lot shallower. The same will apply to F class and practical LR matches where you can't use a concrete bench.

 

[Joe L]

I'm just a few months ahead of you. I think Proneshooter has given you some good advice. I had to learn to pull the gun in to my shoulder and then slightly load the tripod. Main help to me was getting comfortable behind the scope so I wasn't all tense just trying to see through the scope. I steer the gun with a rear bag. I can shoot OK from a bench, but I am much more comfortable in prone with an AR and my bolt gun.

On the bench, I could not get behind the gun and keep my shoulders square without moving back on the bench and not leaning in from the side too much. I am much more comfortable prone.

I have concluded that I learn more from shooting 5 rounds of good ammo than 15 rounds of ammo that is not a good match for my rifle. With the good ammo, you know that poor results are because of errors in technique...and that good groups mean you are improving!

Joe

 

[Idaho Savage]

... and calling my shots.

Sorry for the dumb question but what do you mean by this? I'm just getting started and everything else in you post made sense but I'm curious what you mean here. Thanks.

 

[proneshooter]

Calling your shot means being keenly aware of where your aiming mark (front sight or scope reticle) is located on the target at the exact moment the shot breaks and the rifle begins to move under recoil. If your fundamentals are correct and your calling ability is good, the bullet hole will appear at a spot very, very close to where you called the shot.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

My first tip is to get that rifle off the bench and put it on the floor. Get used to shooting prone from the get go. When I shot an AR-15 service rifle in highpower, I did all my load development from prone using the rifle's iron sights and sling because an AR-15A2 is a bitch to scope and a PITA to shoot well from a bench.

All that time on the ground behind the rifle made the learning curve out on the range (where there are no benches) a lot shallower. The same will apply to F class and practical LR matches where you can't use a concrete bench.

This is indeed good advice, which I'd like to expand. You can not learn all that there is to know with the rifle or the platform you are now shooting with/from. The scope is a distraction. The bipod is a distraction. And, the bench is a distraction. These aids to good shooting are all distractions since they are all serving as substitutes for marksmanship. Using a scope, just starting out, compels you to steer the rifle with muscle to get a sight picture. The bipod is likely used as a rest rather than a support. And, the bench masks knowledge of muscular relaxation, bone support, and NPA. What I'd do, if I were you, is get a Service Rifle with sling; and, I'd learn the principles and positions with it. What you are shooting with now just makes you think you know how to do it, while the Service Rifle will force recognition and realization for proper application of marksmanship fundamentals from the start. Correctly developing your picture and motor memory skills from the start, as is possible with the Service Rifle, will permit you to reach the highest plateaus of good shooting if you have the interest. In addition, the basis of understanding developed from shooting the Service Rifle will transcribe to whatever you are shooting with/from to get you the best results no matter the context.

One more thing, calling your shots is an aid to shooter/target analysis, since the shot call/strike corollary can be used as a means to know the likely source of aiming error. Examples of this are, a shot on call but not where desired indicates poor trigger control and/or position inconsistency. A shot off call indicates a need for sight adjustment. And a shot on call and where desired indicates proper execution of the two firing tasks.

BTW, your .7 group is pretty good; but, what if you could hold a half minute with Service Rifle irons shooting prone with sling, for most of a full twenty round string of fire. With discipline, practice, and proper shooter/target analysis, you could be on the way to getting there.

 

[proneshooter]

The scope is a distraction. The bipod is a distraction. And, the bench is a distraction. These aids to good shooting are all distractions since they are all serving as substitutes for marksmanship. Using a scope, just starting out, compels you to steer the rifle with muscle to get a sight picture. The bipod is likely used as a rest rather than a support. And, the bench masks knowledge of muscular relaxation, bone support, and NPA.

OP, please ignore all of the above. There is an incredible level of bias in this poster's advice and disregards the fact that not everyone is interested in the highpower game and completely disregards the fact that shooting with a sling is not the only way to learn the basics of marksmanship.

SS, don't bother replying to me. You will be wasting your time.

 

[Tahoe333]

I laid down the pistols and picked up my 300wm that has been resting since 2000 and have jumped full bore into rifles.
I have been using the bench with sandbags. I have a very hard time getting comfortable on the bench. I have noticed that as I shoot I tend to slowly rotate "blade" my body which causes he recoil to kick me off to the side. I am in the process of picking up a bipod and mat to shoot prone.
It is a very good feeling when the shot breaks and you get straight-back perfect recoil and the rifle rises and drops exactly where it started.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Thanks for all the input. I do place high value on fundamentals, and practice in different ways regularly. I'll be participating in two Appleseed shoots this year, fwiw.

Does anyone have insight on the proper 'pressures' with the trigger hand? High versus low hold, thumb placement, amount of grip force, etc? How much rearward pull do you use with your trigger hand?

 

[kraigWY]

Rifle or Pistol, the harder your grip with the firing hand, the more you disturb things when you squeeze the trigger.

Try this. Take a pistol, grip as hard as you can, then dry fire squeezing the trigger watch how the sights move. Now take a more relax grip and dry fire, you'll see you get less movement of the sights.

Another trick. Lay a piece of paper on the table. Draw a line down the paper. Take two sells and stand them up on the line. Grip one and put your trigger finger on the other. Use your trigger finger to slide the other shell toward you without it moving off the line. Try this with a firm heavy grip on the one in your hand, then try it with a relaxed grip. See which is easier.

The same principal works with rifles as well as pistols. If your shooting hand is tense, its hard to move the trigger finger without disturbing the hand. It's easier with a relax grip.

 

[jhr1986]

Rifle or Pistol, the harder your grip with the firing hand, the more you disturb things when you squeeze the trigger.

I'm glad I read through the thread just for this reminder - even though I don't flinch as much as I used to, sometimes I try to grip my pistols too hard...

 

[Idaho Savage]

Calling your shot means being keenly aware of where your aiming mark (front sight or scope reticle) is located on the target at the exact moment the shot breaks and the rifle begins to move under recoil. If your fundamentals are correct and your calling ability is good, the bullet hole will appear at a spot very, very close to where you called the shot.

That's what I figured. Thanks Prone.