A little help identifying components on a “new” gun.

[ElbanGold]

Good morning all,
The post title says “NEW GUN” but it’s only new to me. It was assembled for a law enforcement unit three years ago and sold at a police auction when the unit was downsized.
I am entirely new to this forum and this is my first forum post. I used to shoot years ago and put it down for school and jobs and sports. Now that I have an established career with some flexibility, I am picking it back up. To do that I have purchased a heavily customized Remington 700 from a dealer who purchased it from a law enforcement unit out of OR. I have also signed up for a two day course in June where I will be taught more about ballistics, use of a ballistics computer, proper use of a shot log book, zeroing at different yardages, engagement of targets out to 1320yards, etc etc. Two 10 hour days of shooting back to back. Over 100 rounds a day during the course.

Now for the reason I am posting, I am having a hard time identifying a lot of the gear on this rifle. There are not any branding visible on the optic except for a serial number on the bottom which when entered into google gets me absolutely zero hits. The bipod has no branding. Nothing has a manufacturer’s label anywhere on it except the barrel stamped with Remington 700 .308.

I have taken it to some gun smiths and shops in VA and they don’t have any idea or the time to really search it out. I am wondering if it might be possible to post some pictures of this piece and gather information on what the components are.

What I know:
The mag and trigger guard assembly are from Wyatt’s Outdoor Inc in OR. Figuring that out took me weeks and a few $100 of incorrect mags because retailers on line seem hell bent on not providing critical dimensions for their offerings.. Maddening process but completed. You’ll see why this was a pain in the ass in the photos, it’s a tactical assembly with a proprietary (from what i can tell) mag profile and design.
The stock has been fiberglass packed.
The rifle was professionally assembled and was touted as 1/4 MOA.
It was used for certifications and continued education by the SWAT team who owned it before me but was only used once a year for a few days in this capacity.
Scope is incredibly powerful, has glowing cross hairs (green/red) that run on a small battery that i cant figure out how to access, a reflection screen, and bubble level.

If anyone is willing to help me figure out some of these unknowns it will help me a great deal in operation and proper use/maintenance of this weapon. I also need to know more about the scope specifically before the 13th of June so that I can hopefully get my hands on a manual somewhere before the class.

Much appreciated.
EG

 

[loveha]

Is there a logo on the battery cap on the left side of the scope that controls parallax?

(My guess since there is no obvious branding its a cheap sub $200 scope.)

 

[phlegm]

The only things I can tell about the barreled action from the pictures are that it has an aftermarket bolt knob and radial muzzle brake.

It's a Bell and Carlson Tactical Medalist stock: https://www.stockysstocks.com/stock...by-mk-v-savage-10-12-2094-2098-6629-2097.html

That looks like a Falcon Menace 4.8-18x56 scope.

 

[King_beardsly]

I’m a little surprised at the optic one there, would of thought a LE rifle would have better glass unless they pulled the good stuff before it went out the door.

 

[loveha]

That or Bubba said he was a gun guy and the powers that be said you're in charge. Here is your budget.

 

[King_beardsly]

That’s also very possible

 

[264win]

As mentioned above, stock looks to be a bell and carlson.
Aside from that is hard to be very certain of any more specifics from the photos.
A suggestion to the op, if the class you are preparing for has much value to you, (cost or time) get a better quality bipod, and at least zero another scope for your rifle and bring it with you.
a Harris Sbrm bipod Can be found for around 100.00 and is a solid bipod to get going. For a back up or new primary scope a swfa fixed 10 or 12x should be around 300.00 and will at least be dead reliable.

 

[Downtown]

That's great advice from 264win. I cannot think of a quality scope with a illuminated reticle that switches between red and green. Lack of any branding seems to point to an incredibly cheap scope.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I'm with others, I'd seriously be doing away with that scope.

 

[loveha]

We aren't saying you have a bad rifle. As long as the barreled action fits in the stock like it should, and the barrel is good. The optic/rings and bipod are what we are most concerned about.
Downtown is right about red/green illumination. It's either found in cheap scopes, or really high end. Not really a thing in moderately priced scopes in the $450-$1200 range. Those are all usually red.

 

[lash]

Please post some better detail pictures of the bipod. Also, what mags did you end up having to buy to fit that bottom metal?

 

[Covertnoob5]

That's great advice from 264win. I cannot think of a quality scope with a illuminated reticle that switches between red and green. Lack of any branding seems to point to an incredibly cheap scope.

ZCO and NF have both red and green illum just FYI. Don’t want to derail the thread.

 

[ElbanGold]

Interesting input I received today. Thank you all for your comments. Gives me much to think about. As most of the comments were negatively positioned, I’m feeling pretty discouraged about what was not a cheap purchase from a previously trusted source.. Really disappointed with the general regard of this thing... Maybe some more information will help?
Attached are a few photos in more detail that might help with figuring this thing out.

Took a few improved shots of the scope (which I assure you is not cheap.. it just rings of it but I could be wrong I guess) and some detailed shots of the mag. Was able to purchase more of them yesterday and should be all set for the class. That’s an odd one though. Had a REALLY hard time narrowing that down.

Which brings me to this, and maybe I’m just new or something but.. Someone asked if the class was expensive or important to me and recommending that I improve my rig first. The class is very expensive, two days long, and is a 7 hour drive across two states away. It’s clear that more information is required to even get to the bottom of what the hell this mess of parts actually is. Beast or bloat. But it is important to me.

We were all novice once. Remember that? Was it helpful when someone told you that your prize was actually a pile of shit? Yes, but for only a moment as you decided how to rectify it? Nobody is wrong in their input, just please try to understand that this was not at all cheap and that I trust the seller at far more than dude-owns-a-shop-where-I-live-level.
If this shit is actually bogus... well, then I guess I’ll have a project.

But that said.. I have, with this gun in March of this year, in the very first session using it, shot 35 consecutive golf balls without miss at 300 yards. No lies. They were sitting in grass. There was no wind, the humidity was at about 60%, and they were all about 8-10 feet below my shooting position. It’s a 5 round clip and before yesterday was the only clip. So I had to stop and reload 6 times. Admittedly very ideal conditions but still, It’s not a bad item.

I’m asking for help and I truly appreciate the information so far. There will always be a better build out. Always. I’m not asking about that. I am simply trying to get experienced help figuring out what THIS is. A better build out will happen but not before 6/13 unless we find cancer.
One can’t move forward unless he understands that ‘something’ he has to push off of.
I do appreciate your help.
EG

 

[lash]

I still don’t recognize the scope brand, but honestly, I’m not cognizant if everything out there, just the more common types used by many here.

I’m looking at this system and think that you will be fine using that for your class and then some. I’ve seen lesser rifles do fine in the classes as well. If you already have positive results behind this rifle there’s no reason that the pile-on here should change that not deter you from moving forward and getting better.

What brand are those mags?

 

[Covertnoob5]

I wouldn’t say it’s junk. Especially if it shoots. I suppose at the end of the day that’s all that matters. Have you grouped it at 100? Tried a few different ammo types to see what it likes? (I assume you don’t reload)
As for the scope I’m going to have to side with other posters in that I would have a backup ready for the class. There’s no markings of any kind to indicate a brand which I’ve never seen from quality optics. Turret and housing to me seem to indicate a Chinese OEM and without knowing the brand it’s one accident away from not being able to be repaired.
Even something like a Vortex Diamondback tactical for $300 would be an ok backup for a class. Not expensive but can get the job done.

 

[ElbanGold]

It’s definitely a falcon scope. Now that I have the brand narrowed down I’m trying to figure out the model. It has more features than the one previously mentioned (YouTube has its flaws but is still a boon as a resource) which I haven’t been able to find yet.
It is entirely possible that this gun is older than I was led to believe. The videos with similar but not like scope models are 5 years old.
The mags are by Wyatts Outdoor INC and are like nothing else. They are not AICS or any other variant. They’re single stack, extremely low profile and dense. There’s no movement of rounds inside them at all but somehow they feed perfectly and the mags are metal. Which is its inherent flaws but so far, chambering a round is like as effortless as buttering toast.

 

[jolofree]

"shot 35 consecutive golf balls without miss at 300 yards" Wow, that's some kinda good shooting, ~.5 moa, forget trying to name it, just run it

 

[Pre-64]

Can you see any stamping or marking on the bottom of the scope just above the ejection port?

 

[ElbanGold]

What's the magnification range on the scope? Looks like 4.5 to something.i think i see a red 10 on there so I'm guessing this is a second focal plane scope? Also what is the scope tube diameter and objective diameter? That should help narrow you down on what the scope is

Excellent ideas. It is a second focal plane. I know it’s a Falcon. Zoom goes to 18. Tube diameter is 1.176”. Objective diameter is 2.521”.

 

[ElbanGold]

Can you see any stamping or marking on the bottom of the scope just above the ejection port?

Yes but just a serial number which returns nothing on google. Picture of that is in the OP.

 

[ElbanGold]

"shot 35 consecutive golf balls without miss at 300 yards" Wow, that's some kinda good shooting, ~.5 moa, forget trying to name it, just run it

Thanks. I did shoot a LOT when I was a kid. After a few mags to warm up and “ride the bike again” as it were, I was in a happy place. Took this thing to C2 in Virginia and at 100yards was putting rounds through the same hole after the third shot. I know there’s a lot of good here. That’s a lot of why I HAVE to know what this is. I want to get into competition and I love this thing. I bothers the hell out of me that it has so many unknowns.

 

[Supersubes]

OP, you don’t need a manual for anything. You’ve sorted out the magazines. It shoots far better than it should for a factory rifle. The scope has 1/4 moa clicks. All you need it to check the scope tracking, so you can develop some come-ups in preparation for your class. The scope looks like a Falcon, which was a fairly popular budget scope, but even those were branded. Yours is probably built in the same Chinese factory as the falcon, but for a different customer.

 

[ElbanGold]

Found out what that number is on the bottom of the scope 451856.... 4.5-18 56mm objective.. No clue what the sir or b is.the 4 digit under is the serial for that model. Does look like an old falcon menace from the videos and an old snipers hide post from 2008. Might be worth contacting them for info

That’s excellent information! I’ll email them now. You rock man. Thank you. I’ve been fighting that for weeks and just kept going down the wrong turn I guess. Many high fives! Thank you!

 

[ElbanGold]

That’s excellent information! I’ll email them now. You rock man. Thank you. I’ve been fighting that for weeks and just kept going down the wrong turn I guess. Many high fives! Thank you!

So it appears to be a Falcon Menace 4.5-18x56IR. Not a knockoff but their budget option for the LE market. Which would also explain the lack of branding elsewhere. Most things sold to the LE community are not branded when it comes to accessories for say, a sniper rifle. At least that’s what someone on another forum posted.. I emailed falcon about this and we will see what they say.

In the mean time.. say I wanted to throw $700 into an updated optic. Say I wanted to do this next week and have it ready for the class. Targets at 1320 are part of this class and I honestly don’t think I’ll be able to realistically see that far with this current scope. What’s my best option? Real talk.

 

[loveha]

Vortex Strike Eagle. https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Strike-Eagle-FFP-5-25x56-EBR-7C-MRAD-Riflescope-SE-52504.aspx

Edit - MOA version. https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Strike-Eagle-5-25x56-EBR-7C-MOA-Riflescope-SE-52503.aspx

Edit - Rings https://www.eurooptic.com/nightforce-1125-high-34mm-ultralite-4-bolt-ring-set-a224.aspx
Maybe these, not sure on how high you will need to be. You have an adjustable cheek piece, so not as huge a deal if you could have gone a height lower.

Nightforce Ultralite 1.375 X-High 34mm Ring Set A226

Nightforce 1.375 X-High 34mm Ultralite Ring Set A226 for sale! Call (570) 368-3920

www.eurooptic.com

 

[ElbanGold]

Found out what that number is on the bottom of the scope 451856.... 4.5-18 56mm objective.. No clue what the sir or b is.the 4 digit under is the serial for that model. Does look like an old falcon menace from the videos and an old snipers hide post from 2008. Might be worth contacting them for info

Go to the falcon optics site.. The b in that number is the reticle..they call it the b 20 or something. Look for the M18 user manual.. It's not your exact scope obviously but it's very close and can explain the reticle gradients, battery replacement, and all that stuff you might want info on. Just realize the m18 is first focal plane and yours is second so your reticle is only going to be true on 10 power i think. See if the 10 is the odd number out.. None of the other numbers have a dot over them, all the other numbers are white and 10 is the only red.. Should mean 10x is where your reticle works without extra complex math.
The slr might be skeleton long range. Go to the site below.

Falcon 4.5-16x 56 Menace

Impressed with the Falcon 10x42 Menace, Pete Moore gets his hands on a variable version; so are things as good?

www.gunmart.net

Thank you. Yes the the 10is red. I will follow this through. I really appreciate this.

 

[264win]

Op, great job with the added info on your abilities and previous outing with the rifle. It sounds like the rifle is shooting great.

if at all possible a second bipod and scope ( preferably in its own set of rings and already sighted in ) would be a good idea. This is not to say your scope won’t work fine for the class, just that is is likely the weakest point on your rifle. Murphys law applies here, if there is any chance of something breaking, it will happen at the worst possible time, ( like at a class 7 hrs away ).

When I go out of state for hunting or comps I bring a back scope even when running top tier optics. And it has saved my butt a time or two.

 

[ElbanGold]

So.. I’ve been doing some late night research and the jury is actually still out on this damned scope. Definitely a Falcon. But it’s not something identical to a review on YouTube or something I’ve been able to find apples-to-apples in searches.. It still has more features present than what I’ve been able to actually put eyes on so far.
Have emailed the company. Hopefully tomorrow I can stop chewing my fingernails.

That said, I would like to say that this forum is far more productive than all others I’m on. The Tacoma forum is filled with volatile users and while it does have its captains, is otherwise filled with babies that make conversation virtually untenable. The various outdoors forums (camping, DHMB, fishing, killing animals for food) are all chip-on-their-shoulder reactive granolas, with a few captains willing to help who are a chore to find.
This is far more productive and to the point than the rest and I appreciate that. Shooting something very far away is oddly easy to do and very damned hard to master.
EB

 

[ElbanGold]

Bipod looks like a Harris or knockoff.. Maybe a utg or caldwell. Does it hangs any making at all on the bipod? Stock maybe a bell and Carlson?

Here are some more pics of the bipod. Didn’t see this before and it says Harris on it. Searching now.

 

[ElbanGold]

Here are some more pics of the bipod. Didn’t see this before and it says Harris on it. Searching now.

Guess that’s solved. ~$70-90 bipod depending where you go. Never saw the markings until the camera flashed them out. Sorry guys.. not very good of me.

 

[264win]

Good news on the bipod, Harris makes solid gear.

 

[TxWelder35]

If it was me I would just ditch the no name scope and get something known. A Vortex Viper PST gen 2 can be had for very close to $700. Bushnell DMR ii from @gr8fuldoug is another good option

You say the rifle shoots so roll with it. I would just want glass I trust more than what could possibly be a Chinese knock off. Scope going down during the class would be god awful. Not to mention that you will want something with first focal plane and good hold overs for the class also

 

[ElbanGold]

If it was me I would just ditch the no name scope and get something known. A Vortex Viper PST gen 2 can be had for very close to $700. Bushnell DMR ii from @gr8fuldoug is another good option

You say the rifle shoots so roll with it. I would just want glass I trust more than what could possibly be a Chinese knock off. Scope going down during the class would be god awful. Not to mention that you will want something with first focal plane and good hold overs for the class also

I agree. I do like this one for its positive aspects but the unknowns bother me like a thorn.
What do you mean by “going down” how does a scope fail? That’s never been something I have suddenly had to deal with. The mechanics for the reticle adjustment flop or the lenses are suddenly misaligned?
This is about to consume my whole weekend at BassPro. Online shopping possible but I really want to hold the thing and look through it with my own eye(s?) it before I dump cash on it.

 

[264win]

My .02 on the optic would be find something that is a good bargain And could be easily sold later, since you don’t have a lot of time to shop around beforehand. The PX here, along with cameraland would be great places to look.

If you add a location to your profile, there might be a local member who would be willing to let you tryout some of the optics you are interested in.

 

[TxWelder35]

I agree. I do like this one for its positive aspects but the unknowns bother me like a thorn.
What do you mean by “going down” how does a scope fail? That’s never been something I have suddenly had to deal with. The mechanics for the reticle adjustment flop or the lenses are suddenly misaligned?
This is about to consume my whole weekend at BassPro. Online shopping possible but I really want to hold the thing and look through it with my own eye(s?) it before I dump cash on it.

Turrets quit working, won’t hold zero, clicks won’t track properly, scope rings loosen up because they weren’t torqued properly, etc

in a long range class you are going to be relying on that scope heavily. Lots of dialing and using holdovers. I would want a scope with a better reticle also so you have a precise ruler right in front of your face to help make adjustments. What ever you get make sure it’s first focal plane and preferably Mils

 

[TxWelder35]

I would stay away from any scope that says Made in China also.

 

[AKMarty]

Did you ever pull off the sunshade? Some scopes etch their data on the inside of the bell.

 

[lash]

Here are some more pics of the bipod. Didn’t see this before and it says Harris on it. Searching now.

I thought that it looked like a Harris, which is why I suggested a closer look. That’s good news for you. This is not the SBRM that many here use, which just means that it doesn’t adjust for rifle cant (Swivel) on uneven surfaces. Ultimately, if you get really sucked into long range shooting, you will upgrade to something else, but this will get you started.

My thoughts on the scope: the reticle is fine for now and will do until you have an idea of what different you might want. Many people have shot the crap out of long range targets using this same type of reticle with 1/2 mil hash marks. One thing that you’ll find out is that there are all kinds of reticles and all kinds of people who think that only the one that they like is any good.

There are things that make some reticles more useful for different uses, but it takes a little time to find out what you find more useful for your purposes. You’ll find out that for everyone that hates a specific reticle, there is another that likes that same one. It’s one of the reasons that the optics section is filled with so many threads wherein people argue about why one reticle is better than another. It does make for entertaining reading though.

If you do decide to buy another scope before the class, there are a number of great first focal plane mil/mil options in the sub-$1000 range, including (but not limited to):

• Sightron SIII 5-24
• Bushnell DMR 2
• Bushnell LRTS
• Athlon (can’t remember the models)
• Burris XTR II
• Vortex Viper PST II

As mentioned above, give a call to one or more of the great vendors here like Scott at Liberty Optics or Doug at CameraLandNY and they can hook you up, especially if you mention Snipers Hide.

 

[ElbanGold]

Did you ever pull off the sunshade? Some scopes etch their data on the inside of the bell.

I hadn’t thought of that. I took it off once but not during this search. I’ll take a look in there. Thanks.

 

[MarinePMI]

Just wanted to add a side note to this thread, for any other new people reading it:

THIS is what a solid, good, first post on the Hide should look like. No ego, honest questions, and a lot of information to allow members to quickly and effectively help a new member.

BZ to ElbanGold for a solid post, and BZ to the SH members helping him out!

 

[seafury]

OP, glad to hear by your description your rifle appears to be a shooter! That scopes turrets, magnification ring, and reticle match my falcon 4-14x44 which also has no branding visible. That was my first scope for my first rifle back in around 2008.

I remember at that time, they were one of the only manufacturers offering a matched turret/reticle (mil) in FFP in the price bracket of $400. A ton has changed since then.

I would humbly suggest the two most important questions to ask of yourself and the hide are...

1. What are your goals for the intended use of the rifle?

and

2. How much $ are you willing to spend?

With those answers in mind, the vast combined knowledge base the members of this forum possess will be able to steer you in a direction where you should be able to find success.

Also, your up-coming class may provide a chance to get behind other’s rifle systems which you may find you prefer such as different stocks/chassis, optics, actions, triggers, equipment, etc.

Good luck OP, read lots, learn lots, stay humble, and have FUN!

 

[loveha]

He did say $700 for a scope . So I suggested the Vortex Strike Eagle. Then rings bring him past that but I suggested Nightforce for rings. Don't think you can go wrong with that.

 

[ElbanGold]

OP, glad to hear by your description your rifle appears to be a shooter! That scopes turrets, magnification ring, and reticle match my falcon 4-14x44 which also has no branding visible. That was my first scope for my first rifle back in around 2008.

I remember at that time, they were one of the only manufacturers offering a matched turret/reticle (mil) in FFP in the price bracket of $400. A ton has changed since then.

I would humbly suggest the two most important questions to ask of yourself and the hide are...

1. What are your goals for the intended use of the rifle?

and

2. How much $ are you willing to spend?

With those answers in mind, the vast combined knowledge base the members of this forum possess will be able to steer you in a direction where you should be able to find success.

Also, your up-coming class may provide a chance to get behind other’s rifle systems which you may find you prefer such as different stocks/chassis, optics, actions, triggers, equipment, etc.

Good luck OP, read lots, learn lots, stay humble, and have FUN!

I appreciate that. Money is directly related to time and by this time next year, the most top end possible are within grasp. I think that the time frame for the class does prevent me from actually getting a second scope option which makes me nervous but if you say it matches yours then that’s encouraging. I still haven’t found a 100% match in my searches and the folks at falcon think it might have been a purpose built piece from some old LE contract. But I highly doubt that. It has aspects from several variants which is confusing for all parties. And that it executes is actually more troublesome than if it didn’t.

I did spend three hours on optics sites today and I have some ideas. For a next new thing. The class will give me some bearingon al of this in application. My only regret is that I didn’t start this thread three months ago. If I had, I would have something a while world of better.
I appreciate the continued support. I like this community.

 

[Jaron3]

@ElbanGold
There is something that concerns me about your scope which would send me to go get another one and use your Falcon as the back up. Is your reticle in Mils or MOA? Your turrets are MOA. I read something on your scope a few minutes ago that stated that it had moa turrets and a mil reticle. Me being relatively new to long range shooting this would present a math problem for me. Just something to think about and research. I’ll try to find the link.

 

[Jaron3]

Found it.

Falcon 4.5-16x 56 Menace

Impressed with the Falcon 10x42 Menace, Pete Moore gets his hands on a variable version; so are things as good?

www.gunmart.net

 

[loveha]

If what Jaron said is true, you are going to be an irritated student, with a silently agravated instuctor, who may or may not use your scope as a lesson of what not to do.

Reason being, you use your reticle to measure your impact to make a correction, and it's in mils, you then needs to do math and convert that to MOA.
Where if it was in MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA (Reticle/Turrets) you just measure say 12 mils, and move 12 clicks. But now, you needs to figure out how many clicks in MOA is 12 mils.

 

[want2learn]

MOA is converted to Mils by dividing it by 3.43.
Mils is converted to MOA by multiplying by 3.43

 

[Jaron3]

Something else to think about: 10x, which is where your reticle works, might not be enough magnification for 1320 yards. If I were you I’d be getting a FFP mil/mil scope tomorrow. Bass Pro should have some good options for you.

 

[Jaron3]

MOA is converted to Mils by dividing it by 3.43.
Mils is converted to MOA by multiplying by 3.43

That’s an extra step that requires a calculator, at least for me it does, that will only lead to frustration for a newer shooter on the firing line being instructed. What if he has a spotter calling out his corrections. It just seems like it could turn into a bad experience.

 

[Landon4]

If what Jaron said is true, you are going to be an irritated student, with a silently agravated instuctor, who may or may not use your scope as a lesson of what not to do.

Reason being, you use your reticle to measure your impact to make a correction, and it's in mils, you then needs to do math and convert that to MOA.
Where if it was in MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA (Reticle/Turrets) you just measure say 12 mils, and move 12 clicks. But now, you needs to figure out how many clicks in MOA is 12 mils.
View attachment 7339298

12 clicks don’t equal 12 mils just saying