A long action Rem 700. What Caliber?

[Rustybroadhead]

I have to rebuild the first gun I ever bought myself. It began its life as a Rem 270 BDL so it is a long action. I would like to turn it into something that I can shoot in a few local tactical matches with but would likely take deer hunting a few times a year as well. I can not make up my mind what to chamber it in. I have been leaning toward a 6.5x55 but I can't decide whether to make it an AI or not. My biggest concern with this cartridge as improved is the complete lack of loading data (that I can find). I am just getting my bench built so I can start reloading so I am a complete amateur in this department. I like the idea of buying factory ammo though it may not be quite as accurate it would be the simplest way to fire form brass. If anyone has any good loads for 6.5x55AI they are willing to share, I would love to have them. The "AI" version would give me better brass life and the option of loading it hotter if I wanted to.

The other chambering I am considering is the 6.5-06. Probably a little easier to load for, and brass is very easy to come by. I have read a lot about the 280AI but I really think that may be more than I want. My home range only goes to 700yds so I am not sure the additional recoil is worth it. I just was reading something about the 6mm remington... That was designed for a short action but with the high b/c bullets actually works better in a long action. What is everyone's opinion?

A side note... I am not terribly concerned with barrel life. I work 60+ hrs. each week so my range time is pretty limited.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mkollman74]

Lots of good choices. Were I you, I would lean towards 6.5x55, .284, or .280...

 

[BoilerUP]

Swede is a great choice.

 

[selfbowhunter]

if you don't want a 280ai i would vote .284. the 6.5x06 is a badass round i am sure and no fireforming.

chuck

 

[Rustybroadhead]

.284 may be another consideration but what about recoil? I guess a good brake would diminish that. I really haven't considered that one. Is .284 brass available or do you have to neck up 6.5x284 brass? I will have to do some research. Thanks

 

[Blackbrush]

It's easy to neck up 6.5 to 284 or you could do a 6.5x284.

 

[anthonylapoint]

I'm building a .284 in long action now. The best brass is necked up 6.5x284 brass cause you can get brass like
Lapua and Norma. I have noticed it seems only winchester makes .284 brass and although its cheap, is decent quality but its extremely rare to find.

For bullets, the Amax is great to shoot out of it but I'm going for the 180 grain class. 7mm rounds are the best ballistically to shoot in my somewhat limited opinion. Way better then any .30 cal. And at longer distances, will eventually beat out a 6.5 cm. more so cause its easier to spot a 6.5 cm splash then a .284.

If you want to shoot .284, a 1-9 twist for 180 grain bullets is good and I think it works for 162 amax also. Go for at least a 26" barrel to maximize its true velocity in order to better the 6.5 cm.

I was thinking about a swede, it looks awesome, but I ended up with a .284 cause it seems easier to get already chambered barrels and brass. Barrel life between the two, not sure.

.280ai I stayed away from cause I wanted to be able to get a box of bullets off a shelf in last ditch effort if i didnt load any and didn't want special dies made or fire form and it wasn't worth it to me for a little gain in velocity. I already have 1 pain in the ass wild cat cartridge, no need for 2.

It all comes down to if you reload and how much you want to do. If you are looking for easy everything, the swede or 6.5cm is great. If you want a harder hitter, the straight .284 gets my vote. I'm using an mrad break on it too by the way with a 23" barrel. It's a hunting rifle and occasional steel banger at 1000 and up.

Figure out your desires, needs and wants and start from there. Also, your reloading talents. Write a list of those, then a list of pros and cons for each round considered and tally it up. It took me MONTHS to figure it out, eventually, not by much, the .284 beat out the 6.5cm but only cause I had a long action and I own a 6mm cartridge and I wanted a bigger gap between my two rifles.

If I owned only 1 gun, it would be a 6.5 cartridge.

Good luck

 

[anthonylapoint]

It also helped that I found a pac-nor super match with a set of dies for a great price from a fellow devil dog here on the hide. Sometimes, that's what it takes.

 

[rljatl]

I have the exact same rifle and caliber. Been pondering doing something similar, but the rifle was my dad's and I am a little sentimental about it. Will be watching this thread.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Thanks Anthony. I really appreciate your info. The 6.5x284 is a contender for me as well as it has a great long range record.

 

[tmxring]

280 Ackley is pound for pound the baddest 7MM out there. My favorite 7MM.

 

[farmerbrown]

Hmm,

Isn't the swedes bolt face a bit bigger? Might be something to consider.

I'd really be looking at the 280 if it was me.
And maybe you don't want the hassle of the AI first up.

For 700-800 yards, the 280 should have more than enough poke.
My 7mm-08 even doesn't have too much trouble.

Law of diminishing returns kicks in here, esp with blast and recoil.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Blast and recoil are a consideration which is why I am shying away from the 280AI. I know there is a big argument as to the benefits of a 7mm vs 6.5mm but I really think at this point I want to stick with the 6.5.

 

[mdesign]

Might want to consider the 260 or 7-08. Running SA cartridges in a LA would give plenty of room for VLD style bullets.

 

[SporterII]

I just did this and, I did do this, so to speak.
I bought a Remage barrel nut barrel and nut from Jim At Northland. Simple conversion. 280 Remington. I am in business and am confident I will like the 280. So far it went together just fine and the chamber is adequate for the bullets I have. I have 162's, 168 SMK, and 175 SMK. Latter is where I am starting with a col of 3.385".

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Now that is an interesting idea.... Did you have to make any mods to the chassis or stock for the barrel nut or is it small enough that it doesn't effect anything? Are very many people doing this to Rem 700's??

And to be clear as I don't know much about this. It is the same system and nut as the savage. All you need is a barrel wrench to make the change. Just drop in the new barrel, tighten it down and check the head space correct??

What if any are the down sides to this???

 

[SporterII]

It is not for the totally non mechanical type. It can be done in a smithing shop in pretty short order. If you are already reloading that is a plus. A touch of mill time to slot the receiver, a touch of the Dremel to relieve the recoil lug face in the stock, a headspace guage and a piece of your brass. It is astoundingly simple and can be done months before a smith can get to your rifle. What is available has all of the leg work and engineering done. It is a worthy project. It will suit me fine, Till my APA 7mm arrives-

 

[ptaylortx]

6.5-06 and don't look back. Easy to form brass from 270 and 25-06. Great performer.

 

[Jmilera]

I'm in the same predicament as the OP, what velocity should u expect from a 20 inch barrel? I plan to mount a suppresor and not have to deal with a very long rifle for hunting.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

ptaylortx tell me a bit about your rifle and the load you worked up for it. What bullets are you shooting?

 

[leadbullet]

How about the good old 30-06, plenty of ammo choices, great for hunting and matches, long or short ranges, decades of load data. Brass is everywhere.
Nuff said.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Thanks Anthony. I really appreciate your info. The 6.5x284 is a contender for me as well as it has a great long range record.

6.5x284 has a shitty barrel life. It is the hardest to beat but with an expensive return.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Jmilera I have no idea what to expect! I was going to run at least a 24in barrel and possibly a 26in depending on what I finally decide to feed this thing.

Anthony, I am with you on the 6.5x284 and barrel life. I won't be pouring tons of ammo though it but it may still be too short. That is most certainly the downfall of this choice

 

[flatland1]

I've shot the std 6.5x55 in 1000yd any rifle/any sight prone matches, and got really good results out of a 30" Palma bbl with it. S142MKs could be run at just over 2900fps with fine accuracy & no strain on the brass (this was out of a Neska K action, not one of the old surplus Swedish Mausers). Only thing I didn't care for was having to trim cases every second firing, which I attributed to a lot of case body taper. Eventually, I bought a 6.5x55AI reamer, and built another prone rifle, this one on a BAT 3LL, also with a 30" bbl. Was slightly disappointed at not being able to get a lot more velocity, but pushing any of the 139-142gr 6.5mm bullets at 2960fp with fine accuracy is nothing to sneeze at, and besides, I no longer need to concern myself with regular case trimming.

In my mind, the biggest (maybe only) drawback to either the 6.5x55 AI or any of the '06 family of ctdgs is the lack of AI style magazines for them in a LA 700. I'm not crazy about hacking & bending feed lips on $80+ AI 300WM mags in an effort to get them to retain the smaller dia. cases & feed them smoothly. I've currently got a LA 700 in a McM A5 with a big old 30" Krieger 5R in hvy Palma contour chambered for the 280 AI, with PTG LA Stealth DBM. It shoots good, but I'm waiting on magazines.

My 284 bolt gun (another LA700) feeds & ejects great using AI 300WM mags, but I built it heavy AND installed a Harrells tactical brake to make it comfortable to shoot. It is that, but it's a beast to maneuver, and not much fun to carry very far, weighing in at just over 15lbs. Still, it's perhaps the best 1000+yd rifle I own.

All things considered, if I were in your position with a LA 700 action and the desire to shoot out to 700yds, I'd probably go with the 6.5x55 (or AI) or the 6.5-06 (or AI version).

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Great info Dennis! I can't believe with as much taper as the original cartridge has that the gains you experienced by improving it weren't more significant. Makes me wonder if it is really worth it.... I was hoping a 26in tube would push the 140's around 2950 but it sounds like that is going to be asking too much. What powder and charge were you using?

Magazines are a problem I have thought about.... it seams like there are quite a few people running '06 family cartridges out of magazines so I know it is doable. One of the manufacturers could probably make some money if they would just design one. I wouldn't think it would be that hard.

Thanks again!

 

[flatland1]

Rusty,
I was running around 47grs of N160 with 139s & 142s in the std. 6.5x55. H4831 or the SC version would also be good, as would N165. On the 6.5x55AI, I could go faster than 2960fps, but that's where the accuracy was. Ask some of the guys who shoot 6.5x284s in LR HP, and they'll probably tell you their best accuracy is from 2950-3000fps, even though they can push 142s well over 3100fps. Besides, there's barrel life to consider, and by the time you improve the 6.5x55, you're getting a lot closer to the 6.5x284, which is notorious for burning throats out in around 1200rds or less. Another factor is that almost everyone I know who shoots a 6.5x284 uses H4350, which has a high flame temp, and is therefore harder on throats than N160 or N165, or even H4831. Get a copy of NECO's QuickLoad to get a list of powders & flame temps.

Dittos on the magazines - hard to understand how, after all the years that AI's been making reliable magazines, why no one has yet made a version compatible with the '06 family of ctdgs. Guess everyone's got such a hard-on for the 308 that AI didn't figure the demand's there. However, Accurate Mag is in the process of making a run of AI-style '06 mags for APO's Saber chassis, which is designed specifically to run the 30-'06. Not sure they'll be long enough to hold my 280AI rounds loaded with Berger 180 Hybrids, but even if they don't, I've always wanted a really accurate 30-'06....have a couple of McM stocks (adjustable A3-5 & A5) in desert camo that are inletted for B-O M5 DBM, a NIB M700 LA, and a couple of .30 cal 1-10 & 1-11tw Bartlein & Krieger bbl blanks, plus a PTG 30-'06 Match reamer that's cut only one chamber so far. Besides, letting Accurate Mag do the hard work when it comes to feed lip length & profile to get their AI-style mags to work with the '06 makes a lot more sense than running the risk of me ruining an AI 300WM magazine while trying to make it work with the 280 AI or '06.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I wouldn't let lack of load data stop you from getting what you want. Data is only a guideline anyway. Figure out what powders work, and work up a load. 6.5x55 is a great round, I can only imagine the improved being better.

 

[tylerw02]

Since you want to use it in tactical matches you need to consider how well it feeds, how much it recoils, how easy it is to tune, how well it performs, and how well it will function out of a DBM.

There is a good reason you see .243, .260, 6.5 Creed, 6 Creed, and .308 Win.

I'd keep the old BDL as is for hunting and all that you'd use such a rifle for. I'd pick up a factory .308 Win or even pick up a Sako TRG or AI AE and run it. You'll probably be money ahead of turning a BDL into a custom, it will function well, there will be no wait time, and you can get to shooting quicker. If the .308 (which is fine for shooting out to 700 yards which your home range is) suits you, keep shooting it. If not, get a 6.5 Creed, .260, or .243. But since you have so little free time, I wouldn't waste it chasing getting an AI to function well, chasing loads, etc. I'd buy quality factory match ammo and run with it.

 

[ptaylortx]

Rusty, I've got a blue printed M700 with a 26" shilen heavy barrel. Two loads i run are 120 gr barnes ttsx over 50.5 gr of H4831sc or 120 SMK over 50.8 gr of H4831sc both .020"off the lands. I can shoot sub .2 moa with either load.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Thank you for that info Flatland! I was actually just over looking at some loads for the 6.5x55 and it looks like H1000 runs about the same velocities as everything else but seems to have slightly lower pressures so I may start with that one. Where did you come up with Dies for your 6.5x55AI? I was going to go with Redding but it looks like they aren't taking custom orders at the moment and I didn't see them listed in their catalog. Any suggestions?

redneckbmxer24 I agree but it is nice to have some sort of reference to go by. I am not an advanced reloader by any stretch of the imagination and I would rather not bite off more than I can chew.

 

[LV 426]

30 06 and run 155 scenars and 135 SMK SWEET over 3200 m.v.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Tyler02... There is a lot of wisdom in what you said there and the logical side of me agrees with you. I really don't have a great deal of time to tinker with everything to get it just right. My thought behind all of this is that I have more hunting rifles than I need now. This 270 has been collecting dust for probably 10 years now and I feel like I need to do something with it.

Maybe a plain old 30-06 is the way to go. Can you still buy FGMM in '06? I would only have the magazine issue to deal with....

This is the same debate I have been having with myself for months now. I guess there is no magic "bullet" LOL!

 

[flatland1]

Rusty,
I had the Hornady Custom Shop make a 6.5x55AI FL sizer; sent three fired cases & a copy of the reamer print to them, and it came out fine. However, I'd not be a bit surprised to hear that they're too busy to do work like this in the current situation. Never know without calling, but be forewarned. IIRC, I bought a resize reamer at the same time I bought the finisher for the AI - seems like I used it on a PTG sizer blank, then decided I wanted a sizer with better interior finish so it wouldn't scuff the brass like my homemade dies do.

For the seater, I took the sliding sleeve out of my Forster Ultra Mic 6.5x55 seater and ran the 6.5x55AI finisher reamer into it.

I thought Redding made 6.5x55AI dies? Check the list of all their dies in a Sinclair catalog or online, or give Sinclair a call.

 

[Quickdraw40]

284

 

[weshowe]

rustybroadhead,

I'd vote for a 6.5 X 284. I had one built on a Rem 700 LA and it was an incredible shooter! I'm a big fan of the cartridge.

Wes

 

[ptaylortx]

I went through this same ordeal when i built my 6.5-06. If you look at the data between the 6.5-284 and the 6.5-06, there's not a hill of beans difference between the two and the 06 is much cheaper and easier to load for.

 

[tylerw02]

Tyler02... There is a lot of wisdom in what you said there and the logical side of me agrees with you. I really don't have a great deal of time to tinker with everything to get it just right. My thought behind all of this is that I have more hunting rifles than I need now. This 270 has been collecting dust for probably 10 years now and I feel like I need to do something with it.

Maybe a plain old 30-06 is the way to go. Can you still buy FGMM in '06? I would only have the magazine issue to deal with....

This is the same debate I have been having with myself for months now. I guess there is no magic "bullet" LOL!

I'm not sure if you can find much match ammo in .30-06 these days. If you've got plenty of hunters, I'd just sell it and move on to something new.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Rusty, you choose a caliber yet?

 

[GhostFace]

Maybe a plain old 30-06 is the way to go. Can you still buy FGMM in '06? I would only have the magazine issue to deal with....

That's what I say and bend the feed lips to .400 at the rear and .405-.410 at the front and they work like a charm. This is what Scott McRee recomends and mine feed flawlessly...

I don't know about FGGM but HSM has a good selection of match .30-06 loads but reloading is still the best thing as most factory stuff is loaded to .308 velocities. Reloading will let you get into the realm of WM speeds...

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I wish I could say that I had but in all honesty.... no.

The logical side of my says 30-06 (easiest). Then there is the 6.5-06 which would be flatter shooting but there is no factory ammo and barrel life isn't as good. But I still think 6.5x55AI loaded just a little hotter than the standard round would give you between 2900 and 3000 fps and not be too hard on barrels. I could still shoot factory ammo but this one would be the most difficult to load for though....

If it hadn't been the first gun I ever bought, I would just sell the thing and buy new.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

Ghostface, thanks for the measurements for the feed lips. I have a feeling whatever direction this goes, that info will come in handy.

Great looking rifle by the way. '06 I presume?

 

[LRShooter101]

.284!

7mm Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com

Record-Setting .284 Win F-Classer

Outside of a .30 cal or larger magnum, nothing is keeping up with them in F-Class, which says something for performance in the 800-1,000 yard range.

PROS
- BC of the 7mm Match Bullets, more & better 7mm bullets coming out each day
- Plenty of 7mm Hunting Bullets, and you can hunt just about anything with them
- "Good" Barrel Life, with Melonite/Nitride many are going over 3,000 rounds
- Great Brass (neckup Lapua or Norma)

Cons
- Recoil, but easily manageable with weight or a brake
- Factory Offerings

My new one is currently under construction.

IMHO, you will see this gaining more ground over the current 6.5mm rage (6.5 CM & .260) in the coming 12-18 months. IMHO, this will probably turn out to be another Rem .260 story where it goes from being almost non existent to being seen at every type of long range match.

Time will tell!

 

[GhostFace]

Ghostface, thanks for the measurements for the feed lips. I have a feeling whatever direction this goes, that info will come in handy.

Great looking rifle by the way. '06 I presume?

Yes it is....

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I agree with you that .284 is a great caliber. I only see two downsides to this cartridge and one of those you already hit on... recoil. I know a good break will take care of the majority of this issue. The only other downside that I can find is that brass is expensive as hell! Not a huge issue for me as I don't shoot 10k rounds a year.

I don't know much about the average barrel life on this one. If I don't melonite/nitride the barrel, how many rounds should I expect before groups begin to open up?

 

[Rustybroadhead]

LRshooter101 thank you for the link to that article. I am going to do a bit more research on the .284

interesting

 

[anthonylapoint]

LRShooter, I agree with you on the .284, the fact its a great cartridge along with the .280. I don't think it'll gain ground over the 6.5/.260 as it has more recoil, same ballistics out to 1000 and is more expensive to shoot then a 6.5cm. For folks shooting out and including 1000 who don't own a .243/6mm, want to make a significant jump and are looking for a great all rounder, I think the 6.5/.260 takes the prize there. The bc's are only slightly less then the 7's while offering boxed factory ammo competition ready. I don't know man, its tough to say. We are both speculating.

Rusty, both the cartridges are top notch. I would choose between these two honestly. They offer great barrel life and good ballistics and the ability to shoot box Walmart shit if you want. 30 cal is a dinosaur. All that recoil for what? 6.5cm does the job better with less recoil. 284 does it better period.

By the way, I don't have a 6.5/260 cause I own a long action and a 6mm in a short action. I felt because I already owned a 6X and I had a spare long action, the .284 was the appropriate jump. I wanted something that SMACKED steel and the 6.5's weren't gonna do it. Beside, why load a short action round in a long action?

 

[anthonylapoint]

I'm expecting decent barrel life out of my .284 as I dont plan on pushing it hard. Ill use h4350 and find a sweet spot and go.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I'm expecting decent barrel life out of my .284 as I dont plan on pushing it hard. Ill use h4350 and find a sweet spot and go.

I agree with your philosophy here. This is the route I will take with whatever caliber I end up with.

I am going to ask around and try to find someone with a .284 here. I would love to shoot it to get some idea of the recoil with or without the break.

 

[anthonylapoint]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-real-range-reports-6-5cm-straight-284-a.html

Here is the research I did Rusty. Thought you might find it useful

 

[Layton]

I would love to shoot it to get some idea of the recoil with or without the break.

Shot my first deer with a .284 and no brake. I was 11 at the time so it's not bad. I vote for the 6.5x55 though. Not improved and I'm shooting 140s at 2950 and have pushed them past 3000.

L