Gunsmithing A question for the gunsmiths here.....

[Kells81]

if a tool cost $75 bucks to buy, or you can make one in 3-4 hours, what do you do? I understand the value of a buck but I also am on short time most of the time when home. The reason for this whole post was FAL tooling (barrel vice bushings and action wrench) I have the brownells barrel vice and action wrench for the Garand would just need the bushings ($23) and FAL head ($75+/-) plus some specialized tools


I was having this conversation with a general gunsmith friend of mine who was giving me shit about not building my own tooling...

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

Add Pin gages and a laser bore sighter to your list.

The head space is set off of the locking shoulder, and you determine which one you need by swapping out different diameter pin gages until you get satisfactory headspace. Then you either dig into you big pile of locking shoulders and measure thickness until you find the right one or order the one you need. Good times.

The laser bore sighter makes the barrel timing a snap. Battle zero the sights and tighten your barrel to where it lines up the sights with the dot.

FAL's are fun, but the expense in putting one together sucks the fun factor out of it a bit. But they are pretty straight forward on the build.

Now, an M14 (no such thing as an M1A, some pussy sprinfield armory BS, call it the name it earned) is a bit more demanding in the finess department. The best receivers to build on (here we go) are the forged Polytechs. They are the only receivers build on the ORIGINAL TOOLING, to ORIGINAL SPECS. Not reverse engineered, investment cast, or trial and error worked forgings. LRB has supposedly gotten it act together, but they ask the cost of a complete rifle for their receiver. Barrel one up and set the headspace snug on a go-gage (1.360). It won't cycle. Why? Don't know, but the system is finicky. Last few the old man built he showed me that he sets the headspace with a no-go. At 1.360 its just too snug, 1.364 seems to be the sweet spot, YMMV. The timing is everything, and get any of it wrong, and at best it won't cycle, at worst you will see GREATLY accelerated wear on the components.

Whats next? An HK91? Thats a real pain in the ass! Best bet is to get a kit with the barrel still in the trunion, and the matching bolt. How do you check headspace on one? With feeler gages. Getting the cocking tube cleaned up so you can tig it into the new receiver? Borders on artisan work, and is easy to mess up.

"Building" an AR is akin to adding a cold air intake to a Honda Civic. Building an Garand, FAL, or an M14 is more like plumbing in a Paxton supercharger on your Fox body Mustang. In the realm of the skilled hobbyist? Yes. Something to be done on the cheap? NO. Do it your way, if money is not an object, buy the proper tools and have at it. Not all of us wanna take the time to make a tool, and nobody else has the right to tell you your way is wrong.

Good luck and have fun. Sorry if this may not seem like an answer, but it was hard to find the question in your post. If you're in A-stan, be safe and thank you for your service.

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

Did you edit your post? Its seems to have shrunk, or it just looks smaller next to the rambling crap I just posted. No more late night coffee.

 

[Kells81]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kenda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you edit your post? Its seems to have shrunk, or it just looks smaller next to the rambling crap I just posted. No more late night coffee. </div></div>

Yeah I drew down the rambling crap out of mine..

Broke it down to the basics of the question do ya'll buy or build most of your own tools?

Garand, FAL, and M1A are on the list of to do's... I have watched the AGI Video on the G3 and don't have much interest in that series of H&K weapons.


Will look into the boresighter method, I purchased the Badger timing gauges for the garand which will flow over to the m1a project.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

I guess it depends on how soon you need it.

I have built all my own tooling for R700 work. Time vs. money is a question of what you have more of and a measure of skill

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

We do make most of our own tooling, but then again we have the time and are in no rush anymore.

 

[rcnpthfndr]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

i have the fal barrel vise and wrench if you want to use it when you come back, plus the barrel timing tools set. one rod mount into a block on the receiver, the other screws into the front site (gas block) rods line up your barrel isnt canted.

that being said, you get back and want to borrow them let me know just return them. makes copies for all i care.

offer is open.

 

[300sniper]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

if i were in it to make money, i'd probably just buy the tool, provided it was nearly exactly what i wanted/needed and quality (not chinese). if i had a better idea for a tool or there was no quality one available, i'd make my own.

the gun work i do is for fun. making stuff is something i consider fun so i make many of my tools. time spent on it isn't much of a consideration for me. many times i spend more on material than i would have if i just purchased the tool. i don't get the same satisfaction from buying something i can make though.

 

[LRI]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if i were in it to make money, i'd probably just buy the tool, provided it was nearly exactly what i wanted/needed and quality (not chinese). if i had a better idea for a tool or there was no quality one available, i'd make my own.

the gun work i do is for fun. making stuff is something i consider fun so i make many of my tools. time spent on it isn't much of a consideration for me. many times i spend more on material than i would have if i just purchased the tool. i don't get the same satisfaction from buying something i can make though. </div></div>


WELL SAID. Toolmaking and gunmaking are symbiont. IMHO one cannot master one without the other.

Keep the Brownells catalog on the back of the toilet and your CC in your wallet whenever possible.

 

[Kebo57]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

Seems like a bunch of the folks here are wanting to learn the trade or this is their hobby of choice. Although I'm in the business to earn a living I think its great that there are so many of you learning to do this kind of work yourselves. There is no better way to get machine time and learn how to properly use your equip and tooling than to build the fixtures and tooling yourself. I can't always justify the time to make a gadget that's available off the shelf, but I have quite a bit of shop made tooling that's specific to the typical work I do. Also....PUT YOUR TOUCHMARK on that self made tooling and be proud of it!

 

[Kells81]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

I have made my own AK trigger guard rivet jig, I have a Grizzly Combo lathe/Mill machine that I SUCK at operating.... I did however make new handles for some the lathe controls as I didn't like the factory ones. I wish I had more time to piddle with it but when I am home its all about the girls. Usually my Gun Fun time is from 0500 to about 0800 when they wake up. I was looking on a website earlier that has a blueprint of a FAL wrench that I have been looking over. Seems like something I could make with little to no issues other that time.

 

[hero's machine]

Re: A question for the gunsmiths here.....

Dixon, excellent application of symbiont.

Many times the time spent measuring, locating a source, checking stock, and ordering a tool, jig or fixture are about as long as it takes to whip one up. I keep a good stock of materials for (in my best yosemite Sam voice) just such an emergency.