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A Structural Reevaluation of the Collapse of World Trade Center 7
- Thread starter Jefe's Dope
- Start date
Maggot, I'm only singling out your comment because I've heard other comments about "steel melting" and such when discussing the collapse of the Twin Towers before. I don't know what you personally think or believe about 9/11, but I am simply referencing the language in your post as something I have heard before.
I'm not a structural engineer, but apparently we do have a few on these boards....or at the very least some people well-versed enough to reference the LRFD manual. I have a copy of both the ASD and LRFD manuals on my desk right now and I refer to them weekly as needed. I've been in the structural steel fabrication industry my entire adult life. I'm not college educated in steel structures (not a P.E. in any shape or form), just kind of grew up in the industry. I literally started the week after I graduated High School.....and I've been doing it for almost 22 years.
I've always felt the "melting of steel" was a bit of a mis-characterization in the media of what likely happened.
I actually remember hearing Rosie O'Donnell saying on a show not too long after 9/11 that "fire cannot melt steel". I've got a cutting torch that says otherwise, but that might be a slightly different argument. People jumped all on her comment and started agreeing with her and it got a lot of attention. I will say this: Apparently introducing flame to steel in the field is such a big deal that virtually every project I've ever worked on has verbiage in the 051200 specs that states something to the effect of: modifying steel in the field with a torch is strictly prohibited unless authorized in writing by the EOR.
The issue I've always had with Rosie's theory of "fire" not being able to melt steel is that the steel itself doesn't actually have to melt (fail)......only the connections do....more specifically, only the bolts do. Once the bolts fail and the members fall, the floor structure below is having to carry the additional/new dead load of the floor framing above. Once the bolts fail on that floor, its game over.....likely just the weight alone is sufficient to create any additional failure for floors below.
I've been in a newly constructed building when you experience "bolt bang" and it is.....hair raising. Bolt Bang is not bolt failure by any mean, but it does show that connections can slip without the structure being subjected to any significant stress. I can't even imagine what it would be like if the structure was actually under some kind of extreme stress.....the kind you've get from flying a fully-loaded jumbo jet into it.
Again, I'm no engineer....and I'm not even wanting to come off like I think I'm someone special.
I've just always thought that the answer rested with the connections/bolts failing on the first or second floor immediately near the impact/fire, not the actual steel itself.
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The steel does not have to melt. Loaded it will fail long before melting.
WTCs were demoed
This is how you burn a steel building to collapse it like the WTC 7
This is how you burn a steel building to collapse it like the WTC 7
There was a documentary call Loose Change that has now been heavily altered ,after the creator was told it would be in his best interest to do so.
It gave a unbiased account of facts that happened before the "collapse" and after. It was enlightening and scary at the same time. It was 3 hours long and went from the towers to the Pentagon to the plane crash in Pennsylvania. As with everything the ,money was the root cause. I wish I would have saved it back then.
It gave a unbiased account of facts that happened before the "collapse" and after. It was enlightening and scary at the same time. It was 3 hours long and went from the towers to the Pentagon to the plane crash in Pennsylvania. As with everything the ,money was the root cause. I wish I would have saved it back then.
Jesus fucking christ. I feel dumber reading some of the comments here. I have a feeling that lots of you here pop Alex Jones male vitality vitamins while jerking off to conspiracy theories in your basements.
This is a long range precision forum which requires understanding of mathematics observation and ability to gather and interpret data and applying that data to get results. How the fuck do you people believe this psychobabble?
This is a long range precision forum which requires understanding of mathematics observation and ability to gather and interpret data and applying that data to get results. How the fuck do you people believe this psychobabble?
Hi,
SO in the name of conspiracy theory....can the creator prove that statement?
I bet he got invited aka paid for more interviews due to such statement than he did from the original documentary.
Sincerely,
Theis
Can a person who has a couple lessons in a Cessna fly a passenger jet into those buildings? Or fly one 5 feet above ground at 500 mph? Twenty-five experienced pilots attempted it in a simulator following the established flight path. Only one was successful after several attempts.
It seems funny to me that no skyscrapers had ever collapsed before due to fire and we have 3 on the same day. No building codes have ever been updated since those collapsed.
I know my eyes are telling me those were planes flying into the buildings, but there is video which shows only an explosion into the side of the building. No plane is visible. And one I have watched many times is where the second plane seems to melt into the wall. No parts of the aircraft are torn away to fall to the ground. The outside skeleton was 3.5 inch by 3.5 inch steel on 39 inch centers. Looks like at least a light would fall off upon penetration.
It seems funny to me that no skyscrapers had ever collapsed before due to fire and we have 3 on the same day. No building codes have ever been updated since those collapsed.
I know my eyes are telling me those were planes flying into the buildings, but there is video which shows only an explosion into the side of the building. No plane is visible. And one I have watched many times is where the second plane seems to melt into the wall. No parts of the aircraft are torn away to fall to the ground. The outside skeleton was 3.5 inch by 3.5 inch steel on 39 inch centers. Looks like at least a light would fall off upon penetration.
LOVE this stuff. Keep it coming. haha.
The only Fact in here is FS1 saying don't believe a single thing the gubberment says.
and as Dad always says, Believe half of what you see, and none of what you read.
Both of those bode well for not believing the gubbement saying we were attacked. Inside job all the way. Too much $$$ swinging not to be.
Regards
DT
The only Fact in here is FS1 saying don't believe a single thing the gubberment says.
and as Dad always says, Believe half of what you see, and none of what you read.
Both of those bode well for not believing the gubbement saying we were attacked. Inside job all the way. Too much $$$ swinging not to be.
Regards
DT
Hi,
OK, just so there is no misunderstandings on my part....
Show of hands of those that are saying/believing/thinking/etc that airplanes did not hit the 2 towers.
Sincerely,
Theis
OK, just so there is no misunderstandings on my part....
Show of hands of those that are saying/believing/thinking/etc that airplanes did not hit the 2 towers.
Sincerely,
Theis
He just put out facts reported from people at the sites and records of what was going on in the towers a couple months before 911.
I know many will believe anything the government will tell them to. I am simply putting this out for the open minded to look into. It wasn't base in what the author thought, but on what he found. But you have to gave the intelligence to comprehend what you are given....either you do....or you don't .
And BTW.....I dont give a shit what anyone thinks happened or didn't. The truth will never be released. Same a the Kennedy assasination.....but that's a whole other topic.
That was brought up to in the documentary. The coroner said the "crash site " was a hole dug and filled with trash. That was in his actual report. Of course you could never convince some of that fact.....they probably voted for a gay muslim from kenya in 2008 and again in 2012.
There are enough unanswered questions that I am more than open to the idea that 9/11 was an inside job.
That said, people that argue over jet fuel and melting beams / nano thermite / Bld 7 / planes that did not hit the 5 sided building - consider that such conjecture is designed to muddy the waters - and you're promulgating it. Understand how the con works - just enough info from sketchy sources to sow doubt but never enough to convince. Those who choose to champion the sketchy source burn their own personal credibility as well as any credible aspect of the story.
Focus on what is actually known and inexplicable - like John Brennan the CIA station chief at Jedda SA / a muslim convert (a spy for SA?) who personally approved of the visas for the high jackers. What happened to Brennan? Why is he relevant today? IS his relevance today connected? What was the path and timeline of the highjackers? Along the way - who would have known? Where are they today? Why did Barr double down again last week and refuse to release the docs?
The primary reason why most of the shit that is going on in the world happens is because most people can not believe that they could be duped on such a scale. No one wants to admit they are a sucker.
It's a small club, and you and I ain't in it.
ETA - for those that champion this report - you've just read the opinion of some engineers on a gun board that may or may not know what they are talking about (particularly since none have the raw data) who are chipping on the report because of the lack of qualified authors. Ask yourself - do you think A) these engineers are totally full of shit about the quality of the report based on the authors (probably not) B) the sponsors of the report knew this and wanted to create a definitive report and therefore obtained authors that were beyond reproach C) someone wanted to add some more bullshit to the pile
That said, people that argue over jet fuel and melting beams / nano thermite / Bld 7 / planes that did not hit the 5 sided building - consider that such conjecture is designed to muddy the waters - and you're promulgating it. Understand how the con works - just enough info from sketchy sources to sow doubt but never enough to convince. Those who choose to champion the sketchy source burn their own personal credibility as well as any credible aspect of the story.
Focus on what is actually known and inexplicable - like John Brennan the CIA station chief at Jedda SA / a muslim convert (a spy for SA?) who personally approved of the visas for the high jackers. What happened to Brennan? Why is he relevant today? IS his relevance today connected? What was the path and timeline of the highjackers? Along the way - who would have known? Where are they today? Why did Barr double down again last week and refuse to release the docs?
The primary reason why most of the shit that is going on in the world happens is because most people can not believe that they could be duped on such a scale. No one wants to admit they are a sucker.
It's a small club, and you and I ain't in it.
ETA - for those that champion this report - you've just read the opinion of some engineers on a gun board that may or may not know what they are talking about (particularly since none have the raw data) who are chipping on the report because of the lack of qualified authors. Ask yourself - do you think A) these engineers are totally full of shit about the quality of the report based on the authors (probably not) B) the sponsors of the report knew this and wanted to create a definitive report and therefore obtained authors that were beyond reproach C) someone wanted to add some more bullshit to the pile
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Ask yourself, who benefited the most from the planes hitting the towers ?
(Yes Thesis, I think they hit the buildings but I dont think thats why they fell).
In the couple years before 9/11 what were the news headlines full of, constantly? The second the planes hit the towers and Pentagon that news stopped dead in its tracks. Who, or what nation/state benefited from that and the US military becoming involved in the mid east? Which nation/state gets more US aid than all the rest put together? What was the ethnic origin of the man who owned the towers?
Wait, theres someone at my door.
Answer those questions and stitch the parts together. A light may or may not come on for you. If not Im sure you still believe there was only one gunman in Dallas...and youre an idiot.
This level of stupidity literally hurts my brain.
when any of you mouthbreathers want to talk with reason and purpose. Let me know.
I’ve been around explosives for work many years and you Truther morons literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
But please carry on with the race to the bottom.
Bender out.
when any of you mouthbreathers want to talk with reason and purpose. Let me know.
I’ve been around explosives for work many years and you Truther morons literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
But please carry on with the race to the bottom.
Bender out.
The only true targets on that day were building 7 and the Pentagon. The rest was misdirection and continuation of the scenario.
Our government was not responsible,however they were complacent.
Once you come to grips with the evil in this world and I mean true evil, it becomes easier to connect the dots. I do not require one big smoking gun. Several derringers will work nicely.
Our government was not responsible,however they were complacent.
Once you come to grips with the evil in this world and I mean true evil, it becomes easier to connect the dots. I do not require one big smoking gun. Several derringers will work nicely.
Some dont want to connect those dots because hen they would have to face an ugly reality and its easier to live like an ostrich with your head shoved way up your ass.
One shooter in Dallas
Its the same as bringing up the dancing fellas...
Most of that is so far ahead of what the public can tolerate as an explanation (thanks to decades and decades of a cottage industry to obfuscate)....it has to be broken down into much much smaller bites.
Smith-Mundt and Brennan are better starting points.
I have a feeling Brennan will be back in the news in the not so distant future (Durham).
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And there is a very unique Bear Pit activity that happens once the horse is led to the water.....
The poor horse is given Jim Jones koolaid, then beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten, and beaten.
Second shift comes on and beats some more.
Third shift comes on and beats some more.
First shift returns, and the bearings resume, and then....
Maintenance comes out and reinflates the horse....
And then the weekend shifts take over.....
Monday at 0500, maintenance inserts the rubber inflatable inside the horse carcass and reinforces the outside with glass and kevlar.....
And then...
First shift takes over, and groundhog week occurs again... just sayin....
And the horse spirit looks up from hell, and says to de debbil, "Boss, if you let me go back I will drink the pond dry". And, ole boss ain't let one out yet to come back.
And the beatings continue.
Bear Pit Rules...
I worked on the 66th floor of the South Tower and can assure you those two planes were very fuckin visible.
Hi,
But but but....I heard from a guy that said he did not see planes but another guy said that guy was nowhere around and that he was only parroting what another guys sisters fiance heard from his super secret squirrel friend that was read into the briefing through his pager but it may have been a chain letter...
I have heard a lot of BS tinfoil hat talk but no planes on 9/11 takes the cake. Some of you forgot to take your tinfoil hats off before getting in the microwave.
Sincerely,
Theis
I never said anything about explosives or jet fuel and said I saw jets with my eyes. Just look at the photos with an open mind.
Where is the half million cubic yards of concrete located in the rubble?
What about acres of marble or filing cabinets?
Why were people jumping from the windows half clothed?
Look at the burned cars in the parking lot located several blocks from the towers. There is something very unusual missing from most of them. How can that be?
And for something more recent, take a gander at the "burnt" homes in California from the last two years.
Where is the half million cubic yards of concrete located in the rubble?
What about acres of marble or filing cabinets?
Why were people jumping from the windows half clothed?
Look at the burned cars in the parking lot located several blocks from the towers. There is something very unusual missing from most of them. How can that be?
And for something more recent, take a gander at the "burnt" homes in California from the last two years.
.gov burns up women and children, shoots unarmed mothers holding a baby, gives unsuspecting people LSD and others clymidja. I put nothing past what the tyrants will do for more money and power.
???
FWIW - you really ought to have some cites or make this your burner account.
Take a fully fueled airplane (weight) traveling at 865 feet per sec and you have something called momentum. Likely more than a 50 BMG hitting steel at 1000 yards. Or should I say piercing steel at 1000 yards.
you ain’t gonna have much left. JMHO
you ain’t gonna have much left. JMHO
I just look at the pictures and ask myself logical questions.
We all saw planes. Then there is the death bed confession of Ben Rich. Past director of Lockheed Skunk Works.
We all saw planes. Then there is the death bed confession of Ben Rich. Past director of Lockheed Skunk Works.
I was in Brooklyn when the first plane hit, we did not see the first hit but we did see the second.
What I did not know was John Ogonowski was one of the pilots. I knew him, his family, we have had thanksgiving dinner together.
There is no question that aircraft hit the buildings. I recall looking at one of the engines, it was two blocks away.
What I did not know was John Ogonowski was one of the pilots. I knew him, his family, we have had thanksgiving dinner together.
There is no question that aircraft hit the buildings. I recall looking at one of the engines, it was two blocks away.
Jesus fuck please stop
SHADOWHAWK: SKUNK WORKS' BEN RICH OFTEN MISQUOTED BY MEMBERS OF THE UFO COMMUNITY - UFO Digest
Skunk Works’ Ben Rich Often Misquoted By Members of the UFO Community By Norio Hayakawa Copyright 2016, Norio Hayakawa – All Rights Reserved) <Edited by Robert D. Morningstar> ******* July 1, 2016 CIVILIAN INTELLIGENCE NEWS SERVICE Ben Rich (June 18, 1925 – January 5, 1995) was the second...
www.ufodigest.com
He died in 1995. Was he a time traveler ?
I cannot comment with any certainty on someone’s ability or inability to steer a plane into a 210’ x 210’ x 1,300’ structure, but I would think If you lined it up from a few miles away (gotta remember, it isn’t like these buildings were hard to spot) and kept the throttle up, I would think it wouldn’t be to terribly hard.
I’m no expert on the construction of the Twin Towers, but I think they had cast in place shear wall cores which provided both bracing and a structure to house the elevators and stairs. Essentially, there were very few/zero interior columns and all girders span from the perimeter steel structure to embed plates in the shear wall cores. A similar example of this kind of design (albeit more “architectural” than the Twin Towers) is called a Diagrid structure....you can google this should you want to see some pictures Of what I’m trying to describe. I say all of that to say, it is plausible that a 350,000 lb missile traveling at 400+ miles per hour could penetrate the perimeter structure and partially destroy the CIP core......the extreme fire taking care of the remaining damage necessary to create a structural failure. Once the first few members started to fail, it was a domino effect.
Just because you couldn’t see aircraft debris on video footage taken from A position a few thousand feet away doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I can promise you one thing: Pieces of at least one of the airplanes certainly did fall to the ground.
I fabricated the steel for the new St. Nicholas Shrine at Gound Zero and during the project I was able to meet some amazing people from the local iron workers union as well as members of St. Nicholas church all who were involved in the clean-up after 9/11. One member from the church shared with me a photo taken by another church member of something much bigger than “at least a light” laying in the church parking lot......it was a piece of the landing gear. The picture was taken not too many minutes before the towers fell.
I’m not going to act like I have the answer to every question someone dreams up about 9/11, but I can tell you that the reason they are called conspiracy theories is because they cannot be proven and are usually more interesting than the truth.
People simply look for something that just isn’t there, but you are certainly well within your rights to believe whatever you choose......no matter how preposterous.
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth | WTC Twin Towers and Building 7
AE911Truth is a nonprofit organization that represents more than 3,000 architects and engineers who are calling for a new investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7 on 9/11.
