Probably opening up a can of worms here, but I'm curious about what the 'general' consensus on what an acceptable 'tactical 1000 yard rifle' should be capable of group wise...
Mike
Mike
Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
- Thread starter HellsCanyonArmory
- Start date
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
For a tactical or target rifle, it has got to be .5MOA if you are going to be happy with it. For hunting, 1MOA would suit most any hunter unless they are trying to kill a mouse at 600.
DK
For a tactical or target rifle, it has got to be .5MOA if you are going to be happy with it. For hunting, 1MOA would suit most any hunter unless they are trying to kill a mouse at 600.
DK
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
.5 is acceptable. If I was on the 1000yrd line all the time I would want .35.
.5 is acceptable. If I was on the 1000yrd line all the time I would want .35.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
A common definition of a precision rifle is one that will shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards or meters under the worst possible conditions. That works for me.
A common definition of a precision rifle is one that will shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards or meters under the worst possible conditions. That works for me.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
It must shoot better than I can, or I am not going to keep it. Thats about 1/2 to 3/4 for now at 100. But the first thing you learn shooting distence is it will not mean much if you cant or wont shoot in the wind. Im a 4 moa wind reader... for now.
It must shoot better than I can, or I am not going to keep it. Thats about 1/2 to 3/4 for now at 100. But the first thing you learn shooting distence is it will not mean much if you cant or wont shoot in the wind. Im a 4 moa wind reader... for now.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Great replies guys, I tend to agree with whoever stated the rifle has got to be more capable than the shooter. I instinctively tend to think that .5 MOA capable rifle is about where it's going to be at for myself.
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike
Great replies guys, I tend to agree with whoever stated the rifle has got to be more capable than the shooter. I instinctively tend to think that .5 MOA capable rifle is about where it's going to be at for myself.
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A common definition of a precision rifle is one that will shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards or meters under the worst possible conditions. That works for me.
</div></div>
+1
I'm with Lindy on this one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A common definition of a precision rifle is one that will shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards or meters under the worst possible conditions. That works for me.
</div></div>
+1
I'm with Lindy on this one.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion. </div></div>
Whoops, meant to say it was a 3 round group. Had a typo in there, he's a member here as well and if he wants to I'm sure he'll pop onto this post.
Mike
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion. </div></div>
Whoops, meant to say it was a 3 round group. Had a typo in there, he's a member here as well and if he wants to I'm sure he'll pop onto this post.
Mike
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion. </div></div>
Whoops, meant to say it was a 3 round group. Had a typo in there, he's a member here as well and if he wants to I'm sure he'll pop onto this post.
Mike </div></div>
Again, give me 5 and at 300 and would love to have the discussion
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
2(not really a group) or 3 rounds....you hide ALOT. Take it to 300 and 5 rounds. Then we can have a discussion. </div></div>
Whoops, meant to say it was a 3 round group. Had a typo in there, he's a member here as well and if he wants to I'm sure he'll pop onto this post.
Mike </div></div>
Again, give me 5 and at 300 and would love to have the discussion
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260. It looks to be a little under 5 inches from the furthest 2 shots
I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260. It looks to be a little under 5 inches from the furthest 2 shots
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260 </div></div>
that or more info......
Just giving you crap....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260 </div></div>
that or more info......
Just giving you crap....
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
I think that 1MOA at 100yd and 2MOA at 1000yd is a realistic expectation.
While better peformance is certainly desirable, I think that demands beyond what I noted may be less reasonable and more the product of wishful thinking.
2MOA performance at 1000yd is capable of defeating most significant targets an acceptable percentage of attempts. IMHIO (In My Humbly Idiotic Opinion).
Greg
I think that 1MOA at 100yd and 2MOA at 1000yd is a realistic expectation.
While better peformance is certainly desirable, I think that demands beyond what I noted may be less reasonable and more the product of wishful thinking.
2MOA performance at 1000yd is capable of defeating most significant targets an acceptable percentage of attempts. IMHIO (In My Humbly Idiotic Opinion).
Greg
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Key word in the op is "acceptable", so I put <1MOA. He didn't ask what accuracy standards we preferred.
Key word in the op is "acceptable", so I put <1MOA. He didn't ask what accuracy standards we preferred.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
While I might not be capable of consitantly shooting 0,5" groups I would want a rifle that was capable of doing so.
While I might not be capable of consitantly shooting 0,5" groups I would want a rifle that was capable of doing so.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
I only respond to this because I shot a match yesterday and performed as well as I ever have and likely will never repeat the performance. The day before the match I zeroed my rifle shooting 4 5 shot groups. The cumulative average was .607". Not great, but certainly serviceable.
The match was a modified F-class where we started at 100 and moved back 100 yards every stage out to 600. We normally shoot 700 and 800 yards, but lightning stopped us early.
The 100 and 200 yard targets were on separate targets shown below. 100 is on the left.
300 through 600 are below. The unmarked holes are 600 yards.
The average MOA group size for the entire match was .625. This was easily the best entire match I've shot. So my .607" 100 yard average the day before only shows me that I'm capable of .6 MOA groups under the most ideal conditions. It doesn't matter how good the rifle is. I also think that 100 yard groups mean little when you get further out. Small groups at 100 yards offer confidence and nothing else.
I only respond to this because I shot a match yesterday and performed as well as I ever have and likely will never repeat the performance. The day before the match I zeroed my rifle shooting 4 5 shot groups. The cumulative average was .607". Not great, but certainly serviceable.
The match was a modified F-class where we started at 100 and moved back 100 yards every stage out to 600. We normally shoot 700 and 800 yards, but lightning stopped us early.
The 100 and 200 yard targets were on separate targets shown below. 100 is on the left.
300 through 600 are below. The unmarked holes are 600 yards.
The average MOA group size for the entire match was .625. This was easily the best entire match I've shot. So my .607" 100 yard average the day before only shows me that I'm capable of .6 MOA groups under the most ideal conditions. It doesn't matter how good the rifle is. I also think that 100 yard groups mean little when you get further out. Small groups at 100 yards offer confidence and nothing else.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260. It looks to be a little under 5 inches from the furthest 2 shots</div></div>
Damn Deadly, nice shootin.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am by no means a good group shooter. But this is a 5 shot group at 725 from my 260, we were getting solid dope and seeing how much more the wind was affecting the 308 vs the 260. It looks to be a little under 5 inches from the furthest 2 shots</div></div>
Damn Deadly, nice shootin.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Chiller,
I didn't post that to start any sort of a "discussion" with you or anybody else for that matter. Just posting what happened as it was related to the topic of this thread.
That's some great shooting Deadly must feel good to set a new personal best!
Mike
Chiller,
I didn't post that to start any sort of a "discussion" with you or anybody else for that matter. Just posting what happened as it was related to the topic of this thread.
That's some great shooting Deadly must feel good to set a new personal best!
Mike
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Mike,
Again I dont shoot groups unless i am doing load development or getting dope, but thanks.
Mike,
Again I dont shoot groups unless i am doing load development or getting dope, but thanks.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Damn Deadly.......you suck, you missed the paper twice and never did hit the black
Damn Deadly.......you suck, you missed the paper twice and never did hit the black
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn Deadly.......you suck, you missed the paper twice and never did hit the black
</div></div>
That sounds like a Les Baer group to me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn Deadly.......you suck, you missed the paper twice and never did hit the black
That sounds like a Les Baer group to me
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Roscoe, its 5 shots
show yours I showed you mine....but yours must be 10 shots through the same hole
Roscoe, its 5 shots
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roscoe, its 5 shots
show yours I showed you mine....but yours must be 10 shots through the same hole
</div></div>
Yea, thats not too shabby for 725 yards, I'd take it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roscoe, its 5 shots
Yea, thats not too shabby for 725 yards, I'd take it.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
I have a 14 lb .308, built by a fantastic BR riflesmith, using only the best parts. My average 5 shot group at 100 yds. under all conditions with all loads including factory ammo is .526. My smallest group is .112 and my largest is 1.311. I always expect to shoot in the .250-.350 range but I don't and I can't complain about .526 as an average. Now if only I could maintain 1/2 moa consistently out to 1,000 yards I would be a champion instead of a guy that just loves to shoot every chance I get.
I have a 14 lb .308, built by a fantastic BR riflesmith, using only the best parts. My average 5 shot group at 100 yds. under all conditions with all loads including factory ammo is .526. My smallest group is .112 and my largest is 1.311. I always expect to shoot in the .250-.350 range but I don't and I can't complain about .526 as an average. Now if only I could maintain 1/2 moa consistently out to 1,000 yards I would be a champion instead of a guy that just loves to shoot every chance I get.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Personally i would want a .5 moa @ 100 opening up to 1 moa @ 1000. With the rifle being more accurate than the shooter its quite easy to see if you need improvement yourself.
Personally i would want a .5 moa @ 100 opening up to 1 moa @ 1000. With the rifle being more accurate than the shooter its quite easy to see if you need improvement yourself.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally i would want a .5 moa @ 100 opening up to 1 moa @ 1000.</div></div>
I'd like that, too. I've never seen that done, though. A rifle and shooter combination which can do a half MOA at 100 are much more likely to be <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> 2 MOA at 1000.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally i would want a .5 moa @ 100 opening up to 1 moa @ 1000.</div></div>
I'd like that, too. I've never seen that done, though. A rifle and shooter combination which can do a half MOA at 100 are much more likely to be <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> 2 MOA at 1000.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Id say half MOA... if your that good of a trigger puller to see it.... for right now all I have access to is a pretty solid 3/4 moa shooter. These were shot at 300yards at Manatee on a pretty gusty day doing some load development. My FN-SPR.
Id say half MOA... if your that good of a trigger puller to see it.... for right now all I have access to is a pretty solid 3/4 moa shooter. These were shot at 300yards at Manatee on a pretty gusty day doing some load development. My FN-SPR.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Some nice shooting above. In thinking about this, though, I'll paraphrase HATECA re. What kind of tactics?
For the military LR shooter, at N-1000 yards+, an MOA or better rifle keeps all the shots in a torso. Perfectly acceptable battle accuracy and even if you no-kill a target, you may get a chance to tag his buddies when they come to help. I think most military issue sniper rifles are sub-MOA these days anyway.
LE M/O training (and most actual shots) tend to run about 75-100 yds in urban areas and out to about 300 yds in rural areas (much less common than urban engagements). And the LE precision marksman must be first-shot, cold-bore accurate every time. Accurate should mean central nervous system stop (T-slot, Medulla Oblongata, etc.) at any range where a shot can be taken. You have to know your equipment and own skills, especially if training for an environment where there may be civilians or over-penetration risk, etc. Our qual is cold bore shot within 1" circle every time at 100. Similar results expected to max of 300. There is a lot more to the quals than that, but the 1" cold bore is the 'key' shot. In any weather, heat, cold, wind, rain, snow... My personal goal is to shoot 1/2MOA out to 300. My rig and ammo can do it when I can. I have shot to 800 at schools, but beyond 300 is not in our ROE, so training focuses <300.
I can't speak to competition shooting standards, because I've never done that. But expect competitions are very demanding, accuracy-wise. I would think that top competition shooters would want at least 1/2 MOA rifles (or better), no expense spared because that's a competitive edge. But that's a guess as to acceptable accuracy there.
Finally, my focus above on the LE is because it's what I know and it isn't to say that LE shooting is more demanding than military or competition... the military shooters I know are out-of-this-world skilled and practice more than we LE guys can dream of. And work in an really, really dangerous and demanding environment. They are the varsity, IMHO and for some specialized shooters, the standards are way above what is demanded of most LE. And from what I gather 'sniper competition' shooting is as demanding as all get-up, both in terms of shooting skill and athletics.
Anyway, my thoughts re. what is acceptable all hinge on need/application first, then determine what's acceptable in terms of MOA accuracy to meet that need.
Just some thoughts. Cheers, Sirhr
Some nice shooting above. In thinking about this, though, I'll paraphrase HATECA re. What kind of tactics?
For the military LR shooter, at N-1000 yards+, an MOA or better rifle keeps all the shots in a torso. Perfectly acceptable battle accuracy and even if you no-kill a target, you may get a chance to tag his buddies when they come to help. I think most military issue sniper rifles are sub-MOA these days anyway.
LE M/O training (and most actual shots) tend to run about 75-100 yds in urban areas and out to about 300 yds in rural areas (much less common than urban engagements). And the LE precision marksman must be first-shot, cold-bore accurate every time. Accurate should mean central nervous system stop (T-slot, Medulla Oblongata, etc.) at any range where a shot can be taken. You have to know your equipment and own skills, especially if training for an environment where there may be civilians or over-penetration risk, etc. Our qual is cold bore shot within 1" circle every time at 100. Similar results expected to max of 300. There is a lot more to the quals than that, but the 1" cold bore is the 'key' shot. In any weather, heat, cold, wind, rain, snow... My personal goal is to shoot 1/2MOA out to 300. My rig and ammo can do it when I can. I have shot to 800 at schools, but beyond 300 is not in our ROE, so training focuses <300.
I can't speak to competition shooting standards, because I've never done that. But expect competitions are very demanding, accuracy-wise. I would think that top competition shooters would want at least 1/2 MOA rifles (or better), no expense spared because that's a competitive edge. But that's a guess as to acceptable accuracy there.
Finally, my focus above on the LE is because it's what I know and it isn't to say that LE shooting is more demanding than military or competition... the military shooters I know are out-of-this-world skilled and practice more than we LE guys can dream of. And work in an really, really dangerous and demanding environment. They are the varsity, IMHO and for some specialized shooters, the standards are way above what is demanded of most LE. And from what I gather 'sniper competition' shooting is as demanding as all get-up, both in terms of shooting skill and athletics.
Anyway, my thoughts re. what is acceptable all hinge on need/application first, then determine what's acceptable in terms of MOA accuracy to meet that need.
Just some thoughts. Cheers, Sirhr
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great replies guys, I tend to agree with whoever stated the rifle has got to be more capable than the shooter. I instinctively tend to think that .5 MOA capable rifle is about where it's going to be at for myself.
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
I don't think Frank counts that as a group!
That's 2 random shots that happen to land close to each other. Even <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> can do that sometimes!
So was it 2 shots or 3?, I'm confused!
Neil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great replies guys, I tend to agree with whoever stated the rifle has got to be more capable than the shooter. I instinctively tend to think that .5 MOA capable rifle is about where it's going to be at for myself.
Though I did see my buddy shoot a .073" 2 shot group at 100 yards 3 weekends ago with his 6mmx47 Lapua. Yep that's 15 sheets of paper thick difference between the three shots! Pretty impressive to say the least.
Mike </div></div>
I don't think Frank counts that as a group!
That's 2 random shots that happen to land close to each other. Even <span style="font-style: italic">I</span> can do that sometimes!
So was it 2 shots or 3?, I'm confused!
Neil
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It must shoot better than I can, or I am not going to keep it. Thats about 1/2 to 3/4 for now at 100. But the first thing you learn shooting distence is it will not mean much if you cant or wont shoot in the wind.<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> Im a 4 moa wind reader...</span></span> for now. </div></div>
My emphasis added, but I think there's a lot of sense in this statement. It don't matter if your rifle shoots in the 1's, if you can't read the wind, it dont mean nuttin!
Neil
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It must shoot better than I can, or I am not going to keep it. Thats about 1/2 to 3/4 for now at 100. But the first thing you learn shooting distence is it will not mean much if you cant or wont shoot in the wind.<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> Im a 4 moa wind reader...</span></span> for now. </div></div>
My emphasis added, but I think there's a lot of sense in this statement. It don't matter if your rifle shoots in the 1's, if you can't read the wind, it dont mean nuttin!
Neil
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
Just a TAG here...
However I do agree, I know my skills will probably never surpass a 1 MOA rifle.
Mike
Just a TAG here...
However I do agree, I know my skills will probably never surpass a 1 MOA rifle.
Mike
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
It depends what the test is. A reasonable test is an average of 5 groups, each one 5 shots each. 100 yards, with factory ammo.
Under 1.0 MOA is very good - a premium rifle. Under 0.75 MOA is superb - never sell it. Under 0.5 MOA is very rare. Under 0.33 MOA? I don't think it even exists outside of a benchrest rifle with special ammo.
By the way, any rifle - even a $300 one, will do 0.25 MOA if you mean an occasional 3-shot group. But that does not make it a 0.25 MOA rifle.
So my answer for this poll is < 1 MOA.
It depends what the test is. A reasonable test is an average of 5 groups, each one 5 shots each. 100 yards, with factory ammo.
Under 1.0 MOA is very good - a premium rifle. Under 0.75 MOA is superb - never sell it. Under 0.5 MOA is very rare. Under 0.33 MOA? I don't think it even exists outside of a benchrest rifle with special ammo.
By the way, any rifle - even a $300 one, will do 0.25 MOA if you mean an occasional 3-shot group. But that does not make it a 0.25 MOA rifle.
So my answer for this poll is < 1 MOA.
Re: Acceptable Tactical Rifle MOA?
The Army (US among others
) seems to think that for a battle rifle (is that what you call "tactical"? and it's <span style="text-decoration: underline">seldom</span> employed at 1000 yards) 2-3 MOA is OK, for a DMR (which <span style="text-decoration: underline">may</span> occasionally go to 1000 yd - SVD's scope is graduated to 1200m) 1-2 MOA is fine, and for a sniper rifle (that at least should have the capability of 1000 yd) - anything better than 1 MOA.
I understand the pleasures of having < 0.3 MOA rifle - but let's not confuse it with tactical needs and requirements.
The Army (US among others
I understand the pleasures of having < 0.3 MOA rifle - but let's not confuse it with tactical needs and requirements.
