What size steel are you guys using from 3-500 yards? By the chart below, at 400,you'd be shooting a 8.75" square, tough target here in WY.
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- Thread starter Milo 2.5
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Dunno where in that chart you see 8.75" @ 400y....
At the CRC Long Range RF Match, our eight 320y targets range in size from a 16" diamond down to a 14" triangle, and at 420y we have an 18" square and a 16" diamond.
FWIW, our hit % @ 320 is about 80% and @ 420, 35% or so. This is why the COF now has just 12 shots out of 150 at 420y, and at 320y, competitors shoot the targets 48 times. The rest of the targets are closer in, and get hit much more often.
That said, I believe that our match data at the longer distances has as much to do with target size, as it does with wind calls, well-executed shot release, and the various ES of competitors' ammo.
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Chart says 12", bottom of the chart says measured corner to opposite corner, I took that as diagonal, which would equal about 8.75" square, lol
Thanks for the insight, 16" at 400 was my mindset
Yeah I am not reading 8.75 at 400 yards. I am reading 12" at 400 yards prone and size increasing as support decreases.
Apparently some of you have forgotten your basic junior high math skills, aka the Pythagorean Theorem, a2 + b2 = c2. A square target, diagonally measured to be 12" (aka, the "hypotenuse" or "c"), would mean all sides of the square (aka, the "legs", "a" or "b") would be 8.5".
I can find a crayon drawing if it would help.
I can find a crayon drawing if it would help.
Two things. The first is minor, well both are minor. First is that the graph axis should be reversed. Distance on the x and target size on the y.
Second, I think target size is important, but what I really have come to think is more important is what you learn from misses. I like tight targets, but if there is a miss, can you see where it went. a close berm to see splash, or a cardboard backer, or a center hole on a plate to see splash on the face panel.
22lr is about learning. Every shot should give feedback. Nothing worse than a “No call” on a shot. Tight feedback loops.
Also, why does the target size increase, and then decrease as range increases.
Second, I think target size is important, but what I really have come to think is more important is what you learn from misses. I like tight targets, but if there is a miss, can you see where it went. a close berm to see splash, or a cardboard backer, or a center hole on a plate to see splash on the face panel.
22lr is about learning. Every shot should give feedback. Nothing worse than a “No call” on a shot. Tight feedback loops.
Also, why does the target size increase, and then decrease as range increases.
The AEM Monster Impact Match: 31 shooters. The long Stage was 5 targets from 180 to 370. This is the data from the last 3 targets of the stage. Weather was as perfect as could ever be expected. Wind was 2-4 at most and from the 4 to 5 o'clock. All targets had 3 shots per. All the results and ranges are on PS.
10 inch square at 300: 2 first round hits, 9 2nd, 10 3rd. 5 shooters with 2 hits, 1 with 3 22% hit percent for all shooters
12" as a diamond at 355: 5 1st rd hits, 1 2nd, 9 rd. 1 shooter with 2 hits. 16% hit percent for all shooters
11 x 18 coyote at 370: 5 1st, 2 2nd, 4 3rd. 3 shooters with 2 hits. 14% hit percent for all shooters.
20 plus of the shooters have plenty of experience.. That includes that have shot the finales for the different series.
Bigger targets with more hits bring people back. A target per stage that is a challenge and a 2-1-1 scoring system break up the field. Just my opinion. Forgot in the origional post. Post match analysis, we decided these were too small. The hit % was too low. We will go with a 12 at 300 square and a 16 at the 355 in the future. We will continue with the longer stage b/c most of the shooters enjoy the stage.
10 inch square at 300: 2 first round hits, 9 2nd, 10 3rd. 5 shooters with 2 hits, 1 with 3 22% hit percent for all shooters
12" as a diamond at 355: 5 1st rd hits, 1 2nd, 9 rd. 1 shooter with 2 hits. 16% hit percent for all shooters
11 x 18 coyote at 370: 5 1st, 2 2nd, 4 3rd. 3 shooters with 2 hits. 14% hit percent for all shooters.
20 plus of the shooters have plenty of experience.. That includes that have shot the finales for the different series.
Bigger targets with more hits bring people back. A target per stage that is a challenge and a 2-1-1 scoring system break up the field. Just my opinion. Forgot in the origional post. Post match analysis, we decided these were too small. The hit % was too low. We will go with a 12 at 300 square and a 16 at the 355 in the future. We will continue with the longer stage b/c most of the shooters enjoy the stage.
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you're being too literal/moronic
no one measures a 12" square with the hypotenuse and labes the target on a COF with that measurement
if that's too hard for you pretend its a circle
No. He is correct.
All you have to do is use some reading comprehension skills and read the descriptor below the horizontal axis, then do some real basic Geometry.
I did not mean to start shitshow with the graph, more interested in the size steel people shoot.
Opposite corners are the diagonal. The other two are adjacent because they share a side.
Wrong. In geometric terms, there is "adjacent" and "opposite". Both have very specific definitions. Your owe an apology to your geometry teacher.
How about two lines on the X axis, one showing the diagonal and below that the corresponding square size. Kind of like F and C for a temp axis labels. Could also add cm as units for both Canadians with guns still.
brb putting a 1/2" wide by 12" tall at 425y and 1/2" wide x 20" tall target at 500yfor you cause well it meets the standard of that chart apparently
I highly doubt they are talking about the hypotenuse when discussing target size. Yeah, let me cant my scope 45° so I can mil this target width real quick lol
@Dthomas3523 since youre a vudoo rimfire match director who probably has as much insight as anyone, what say you?
Oh, and @RAVAGE88 I suppose you cold help too
@Dthomas3523 since youre a vudoo rimfire match director who probably has as much insight as anyone, what say you?
Oh, and @RAVAGE88 I suppose you cold help too
Why do guys with crayons always think they are smarter than everyone.
This is the internet, everything is a shit-show. We can complicate a stick and then argue over it. Insults are free. The question is really irrelevant, we'll ignore it anyway.
What do you think of a larger plate with a smaller "target" inside. That way you get some info about the near misses. Good shooting!
Yeah just hang a huge plate and paint a small aiming point on it.
You gain more information about what you and your rounds are doing on a plate that is so big you can't miss it....compared to a tiny one.
You see can where your drift is. Your group size. Heck....hit percentage.
Then when it matters and someone puts a pop can target at 600yds....and you now know the best your gun is capable of is hula hoop size groups. You don't have to beat yourself up because some MD has his head in the clouds.
At a certain point I just walk away from the matches as its becoming less and less about shooting a rimfire well and more about who can spend the most money.
You gain more information about what you and your rounds are doing on a plate that is so big you can't miss it....compared to a tiny one.
You see can where your drift is. Your group size. Heck....hit percentage.
Then when it matters and someone puts a pop can target at 600yds....and you now know the best your gun is capable of is hula hoop size groups. You don't have to beat yourself up because some MD has his head in the clouds.
At a certain point I just walk away from the matches as its becoming less and less about shooting a rimfire well and more about who can spend the most money.
No idea what the wording meant on that chart. It’s probably an incorrect wording and they are not talking about diagonal corners.
On topic though, Rimfire target selection is fluid and at times difficult. Past 2-250 yds, id never go smaller than a 12” round or square.
Berms are a *big* deal in Rimfire. And berms that actually show good splash. Without a berm or a “good” berm, you have to start going larger on targets.
As well as not just using a static “2moa for non prone” like you would in a centerfire match. Rimfire gets tricky/different depending on range and IMO doesn’t scale linearly.
For example, I’d use 1-2moa targets out to 100yds or so, then move to 3moa or so out to 200, then probably be closer to 5moa past 200. This would be for a match where people will show up with rifles ranging from $500 to $5k+ and any kind of ammo you can imagine.
And if your range has really switchy winds, you might need to increase target size even more. Otherwise, your top shooters will shoot 80% and your mid to low scores will be abysmal and discourage people from coming back.
I also have started capping out around 250yds. As IMO, you’re getting into ELR territory past that and you can easily challenge shooters with target size and movement without stretching the distance.
I know I basically just said a lot of nothing and didn’t give very concrete answers, but Rimfire is fairly tricky and definitely not straightforward like centerfire.
I have 5 plates now that range from 6" to this torso. I like the torso because it can gather better data. Also for what ever reason it rings very well when hit.
This is what I mean on feedback. If 22lr is quarter scale 308, I had these cut to 1/4 scale IPSC- but with a center hole with a flapper. Center is the real target, the face gives feedback. 1/4 scale gets smaller than you think. It isn't 1/4 of the surface area, its 1/4 on the hroizontal and vertical 1/4 times a 1/4 =1/16 surface area. Still pretty big. I really meant them for out to 200, but I think 300 would work, though. After that, misses off of the face would happen a lot.
These were fun, but I need to get back at them to get them to do what I want.
These were fun, but I need to get back at them to get them to do what I want.
Cool targets @FromMyColdDeadHand but hopefully we'll never see something like this at a RF match vvvv
That
That target gives tremendous feed back at 100 yards. You won't even need a spotter.
this is a big one here that i never thought of until i started helping our MD write stages. i like the hard stages IE small targets lots of movement so the first time i wrote a few stages the MD told me that these are great stages...FOR THE EXPERIENCED SHOOTERS....pretty much impossible and discouraging for the new-er shooters and at some point they will stop coming if they are not able to get hits....we get a lot of new shooters because so and so got 2 impacts on a 16" round at 325yds.
Thanks for the responses, being I am not a MD, nor do we have props on hand at the range I frequent other than RRS tripods, my steel is fine. I bought a bunch of 1/4" AR500 targets from X Steel, biggest being 12", doubt I am going to buy any bigger plate, I can just not set the steel out as far in high wind.
I also have a couple rimrfire KYL racks and a couple poppers from MGM. We also set some mini coyote and boar knockdown targets on sawhorses @ 2 & 300 yards, way fun.
My Rim X with Lapua center x falls off considerably after 350, and not sure how much more I am willing to spend on ammo. The B14R with SK standard plus does better at 400, but neither are 500 yard success stories.
I did make some adjustments to my Rim X mags, I may have been deforming bullets chambering rds, I'll have to test it out. But flock after flock of lesser Canadians have been flying over the house since 5am, not good.
I also have a couple rimrfire KYL racks and a couple poppers from MGM. We also set some mini coyote and boar knockdown targets on sawhorses @ 2 & 300 yards, way fun.
My Rim X with Lapua center x falls off considerably after 350, and not sure how much more I am willing to spend on ammo. The B14R with SK standard plus does better at 400, but neither are 500 yard success stories.
I did make some adjustments to my Rim X mags, I may have been deforming bullets chambering rds, I'll have to test it out. But flock after flock of lesser Canadians have been flying over the house since 5am, not good.
I mainly shoot out to 300 yards with my 22. I like to use a KYL stand from 12" round plates down to 3". 12" is great for shit conditions, can't imagine using an 8" target past that unless you are cherry picking conditions. Spotting misses become difficult at that distance in wet conditions or if you have weeds grown up on the berm.
I live next to two mattress stores. I got it made. It is nice to see where every bullet is going. Shooting steel without first getting your dope on paper is annoying. With minimal wind I almost never miss a 6” plate @300.
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I can hit it every time……every time.
Every time?
I have a box of 22lr that won't even allow you to hit the side of that barn at 400 yards.
I couldn't even keep it on a 6x6 backer (feet) at 200 yards.
CCI Copper 22....that stuff throws strays like you can't imagine.
I have a box of 22lr that won't even allow you to hit the side of that barn at 400 yards.
I couldn't even keep it on a 6x6 backer (feet) at 200 yards.
CCI Copper 22....that stuff throws strays like you can't imagine.
OK OK with Match Ammo. I’ve shot 15 6x5 targets with different match Ammo and they have all been accounted for. The best can be seen at Jbell’s 6x5 thread.Every time?
I have a box of 22lr that won't even allow you to hit the side of that barn at 400 yards.
I couldn't even keep it on a 6x6 backer (feet) at 200 yards.
CCI Copper 22....that stuff throws strays like you can't imagine.
Shooting giant cardboard targets in the dark?!
There is a possibility we are related...
The "long range " stage in my match is this at 400yds. During the match the square steel, which is permanent to the range, will be all white. The gong is 16" and only 3/16 thick, rings like crazy. There are some gaps and you still have to have some idea of your dope but the adjacent steel gives good feedback.
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