Acceptable work or not?

[SB545]

I've gone the rounds on this barrel and tired of dealing with it. This is the current state after the mfg addressed a headspace issues and evidently reamed the throat.

Would you let it be and shoot it or send it off to get fixed by a competent smith?

 

[ma smith]

The number one question everyone will ask you in 3-2-1 is ..."does it shoot...?"

 

[SB545]

The number one question everyone will ask you in 3-2-1 is ..."does it shoot...?"

That's the next step. I've only put one shot thru it prior to getting it back. That was a starting load and it was too hot in that chamber to try for a group. Hopefully I'll get some rounds thru it this Friday.

 

[4O6shootist]

Have a competent smith throat it our a lil bit, should clean up the hacksaw throat, unless the chamber has enough runout that it's oversized to the point a good dial in won't clean it all up. Who the F sends something like that out the door?

 

[cwinner]

6 groove barrel? Cut or button rifled?

Not sure what a smith can do to "fix" anything...... if you're worried about the cut marks remember they are magnified by your bore scope...... best way to smooth them out is to just shoot it, they'll be gone in a couple hundred rounds.

 

[SB545]

6 groove barrel? Cut or button rifled?

Not sure what a smith can do to "fix" anything...... if you're worried about the cut marks remember they are magnified by your bore scope...... best way to smooth them out is to just shoot it, they'll be gone in a couple hundred rounds.

This one is button. The tooling doesn't look great but I'm more concerned about the concentricity. Either the chamber wasn't cut straight or the throat wasn't. I'm thinking it could have been straighter if reamed by hand. Out of the 4 samples I've seen from this mfg, only one was concentric and that was after a lot of calls and emails.

 

[Yondering]

This one is button. The tooling doesn't look great but I'm more concerned about the concentricity. Either the chamber wasn't cut straight or the throat wasn't. I'm thinking it could have been straighter if reamed by hand. Out of the 4 samples I've seen from this mfg, only one was concentric and that was after a lot of calls and emails.

They're probably using a "standard" size (i.e. undersized) pilot on their reamer. That's why your throat looks off center.

I'd still be more interested in how it shoots than how it looks. Borescopes cause way too much stress for most owners, it seems.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Looks like a Savage barrel

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Looks like they threaded it for the new replaceable throat system. Just screw in a new throat insert and go!

Seriously though, I'd want my money back. That's absolutely dog shit, it looks like they threaded the fucking lands theres so much tool runout.

 

[sandwarrior]

Looks like a Savage barrel

They don't make that kind...

In response to the OP. That looks like shit. If it don't shoot, you're probably out what you paid. Next time, get a quality barrel. Or, as I assume this may be a custom, find a competant gunsmith and get in line.

 

[SporterII]

Send that photo to the repair shop that did it. See if they will just replace it.

 

[Baron23]

Out of the 4 samples I've seen from this mfg, only one was concentric and that was after a lot of calls and emails.

3 out of 4 were fucked up and you're still trying to deal with this vendor?

Sorry you are going thru this....but me, I would have moved on to a different barrel vendor.

 

[SB545]

Send that photo to the repair shop that did it. See if they will just replace it.

I have and a refund is not an option. Should have gone with a proof but I cheaped out on the sale last November so I guess that tells you who did it. I've had some tough conversations with the shop manager and the owner. They are not concerned about the appearance of the throat. The first barrel I received had choppy threads on the muzzle and an off center throat like this one. The other issues were all headspace related. When I sent it back for 3 thou to be removed they took 6 thou off and go gauge wouldn't close. It spiked on the first shot.

As for this one. I just finished taking a few shots and it may hold MOA with some load development. I'm used to tighter groups though.

 

[carbonbased]

Stop payment on the cc? I haven’t done that in a long time, maybe it’s too late.

Why adverse to naming the shop? Unless you are still trying to negotiate…I haven’t been paying attention enough to know who had a November sale.

After which I’d name them. Three of four barrels? Wow.

 

[SB545]

I've gone the rounds. Had a claim open with PayPal and the CC company since it was 2 payments. The first barrel took twice as long as it was supposed to, so I was beyond the timeline for PayPal but they made an allowance to open the claim. They did however close it without talking to me. So at this point I can get half my payment back and apply it to my Smith. He'll charge 300 to 350 to make that barrel correct. I now have a list of barrel makers but I won't touch.

 

[Baron23]

I cheaped out on the sale last November so I guess that tells you who did it.

Ah....no, it doesn't tell me who did it but I'm an ignoramus! haha

Seriously, I think you should name them....3 our of 4 barrels fucked up. I think they need to be named for the benefit of others.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've gone the rounds. Had a claim open with PayPal and the CC company since it was 2 payments. The first barrel took twice as long as it was supposed to, so I was beyond the timeline for PayPal but they made an allowance to open the claim. They did however close it without talking to me. So at this point I can get half my payment back and apply it to my Smith. He'll charge 300 to 350 to make that barrel correct. I now have a list of barrel makers but I won't touch.

Fuck spending another $300 to unfuck it and still have a shitty McGowen. If they’ll refund half of it, get half of your money back and apply it to a quality barrel and put that one up on a shelf to serve as a reminder not to cheap out again.

 

[Baron23]

still have a shitty McGowen

I was kind of guessing McGowen based on some of the absolutely atrocious reports on their work lately.

Wow....in the internet age, manf need to be aware that their crappy work and lousy CS will be made public.

 

[JM4590]

Bro! Just picked this up the other day. Send me that barrel and I’ll “smooth” it out for ya! Cheap too! All you do is pay for the shipping.

I took the same online course as the dude who did your barrel. I bet he used some off brand and missed chapter 5 “How to chamber barrels”

I can send you a copy of my certificate if you don’t trust me

 

[SB545]

Man, I honestly think a dremel would have looked cleaner.

And yes it was a mcgowen blank that CS finished. I have had a gallon barrels before and will never order one from them again. For a button barrel they're not bad for the cost. They have no idea how to cut threads though. They also blamed me for a chambering mix up when they gave me a 270 WIN instead of WSM. I told Dan to refer to his online order paperwork and after his tantrum I told him where he could shove the barrel.

 

[Baron23]

that CS finished

Ok, I'm a wee bit dense today...."CS"? A shop, a person, acronym for customer service (i.e. McGowen).

Who cut the chamber....McGowen?

 

[carbonbased]

Wow. Looking over previous posts that the OP has made…

Carbon Six barrel (I do believe this is the one in question in this very post as it is carbon and was apparently purchased in the Nov ‘22 timeframe, and CS seems to mean Carbon Six)

Tikka prefit options

I recently sold my trusty 270wsm after buying a donor t3x and ordering a custom barrel. 4.5 months and two tries later I now need a new barrel maker/finisher. I'd like to stay somewhat affordable (~$450-600 if cerakoted) but still have decent quality and factory accuracy or better. A...

www.snipershide.com

Pressure issues Crown Ridge

Tikka prefit options

I recently sold my trusty 270wsm after buying a donor t3x and ordering a custom barrel. 4.5 months and two tries later I now need a new barrel maker/finisher. I'd like to stay somewhat affordable (~$450-600 if cerakoted) but still have decent quality and factory accuracy or better. A...

www.snipershide.com

And Crown Ridge mis-marked the caliber (but seems to have done an ok job?)

Gunsmithing - Barrel thread and shoulder machining?

So wait is that last pic after he made things right? And he lost your action??? Was one of the extras he threw in a jar of Vaseline? No, I think he forgot the lube. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

www.snipershide.com

McGowen messed up what seems to be a few times (same link as directly above)

Gunsmithing - Barrel thread and shoulder machining?

So wait is that last pic after he made things right? And he lost your action??? Was one of the extras he threw in a jar of Vaseline? No, I think he forgot the lube. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

www.snipershide.com

More issues some unknown manuf???

Gunsmithing - Barrel thread and shoulder machining?

So wait is that last pic after he made things right? And he lost your action??? Was one of the extras he threw in a jar of Vaseline? No, I think he forgot the lube. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

www.snipershide.com

Now…everyone gets unlucky sometimes. But I’m starting to think you are not learning your lessons?

Are you one of these guys who always says, “I can’t afford it” but that really means, “I have enough money but I refuse to spend that amount of money for such a thing”?

Or are you addicted to getting a “deal” and won’t buy something unless there’s a price-cut? Even though you have more than enough money to buy at full price?

Do friends, relatives, or significant others describe you as “frugal” and roll their eyes?

Do you buy regular ol’ shoes used off of eBay/Craigslist? (Not including specific-use footwear, i.e. ski boots)

Do you chastise family members for taking too long of a shower? Water ain’t free, you know.

I think you either need to unclench the inner Scrooge McDuck or to save up some cash.

In any case, go with a known quantity like Bartlein, Krieger, or LRI and don’t look for a friggin’ price cut or deal.

…because after reading your previous posts, I was first irked at the crappy gunsmiths you’ve ran into.

But now I’m also a tad irritated at you?

Edit: here’s some recommendations
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...r-another-gunsmith-for-new-308-build.7156641/

 

[carbonbased]

View attachment 8149650
Bro! Just picked this up the other day. Send me that barrel and I’ll “smooth” it out for ya! Cheap too! All you do is pay for the shipping.

I took the same online course as the dude who did your barrel. I bet he used some off brand and missed chapter 5 “How to chamber barrels”

I can send you a copy of my certificate if you don’t trust me

That’s a 7-axis dremel! Three figures broseph!

 

[carbonbased]

Wait, Crown Ridge stopped responding about pressure signs? (See my post above)

Gunsmithing - What do you consider excessive headspace?

I've been dealing with pressure issues in a new barrel at low charge weights and in factory rounds. My chamber specs appear to be good but headspace is at .0065 . To avoid brass flow and case mouth constricting, should I consider reducing the headspace?

www.snipershide.com

Edit:
Ok, I’m going with the analysis that @reubenski made in that very thread above. (link)

This whole thing is so vague and bullshitty anyone commenting has to take the blue pill and jump down the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole.

 

[SB545]

The issue with crown ridge was resolved. His work was premium in my opinion. The barrel was not. Anthony eventually gave me a full refund and either sent the barrel back or disposed of it. There were some customer service issues there along the way though.

I've been through a lot of different barrels and had some issues recently. I do my homework and sometimes take a chance. I've been burned by local gunsmiths that had four star ratings and burned by barrel manufacturers that mostly have positive ratings.

So far Bartlein and Hawk Hill have been solid choices for me. If I put one of those on every rifle I own I would be in the poor house. I went with carbon 6 prior to reevaluating my barrel decisions. From here on out I'll run more factory barrels. Be selective on which builds get a nice barrel.

 

[ma smith]

"I'd like to stay somewhat affordable ($450...cerakoted)..."

OP, Looks like you are are cutting corners turning all of them into 'customs' ??... maybe just downsize and have fewer, nicer rifles.

AFAIK, Precision rifle stuff does not get cheaper the more platforms you try to support...

 

[SB545]

OP, Looks like you are are cutting corners turning all of them into 'customs' ??... maybe just downsize and have fewer, nicer rifles.

AFAIK, Precision rifle stuff does not get cheaper the more platforms you try to support...

This is true. I have to balance where my money goes. This barrel was only $700. Before this build I was looking for a coated MOA gun for the kid. A cheap coated bbl would have worked there. He ended up with a Kimber hunter pro that he took a moose and a bull elk with last year. Either would have been sufficient. I've had some factory Tikkas that are precise out to 3/4 of a mile. Those are great for the cost. My next build will probably be a ways out but it'll be a pencil barrel from one of the two mfg I mentioned earlier. This realm is too much of a PITA to take chances on bad work. So, lesson learned. I just wish I would have paid less attention to the positive reviews and taken the negative ones more seriously with mcgowen and carbon six.

 

[Yondering]

This is true. I have to balance where my money goes. This barrel was only $700. Before this build I was looking for a coated MOA gun for the kid. A cheap coated bbl would have worked there. He ended up with a Kimber hunter pro that he took a moose and a bull elk with last year. Either would have been sufficient. I've had some factory Tikkas that are precise out to 3/4 of a mile. Those are great for the cost. My next build will probably be a ways out but it'll be a pencil barrel from one of the two mfg I mentioned earlier. This realm is too much of a PITA to take chances on bad work. So, lesson learned. I just wish I would have paid less attention to the positive reviews and taken the negative ones more seriously with mcgowen and carbon six.

You spent $700 for that? Holy crap... Seems like you could have just bought a quality barrel as mentioned above for that kind of money.

Besides, if you're only expecting MOA - plenty of off the rack bolt guns will do that these days. Even the cheap stuff like Savage and RAR; the factory Tikka barrel should have been better than that. But I didn't read all your other threads on this so maybe there's some other reason for going this route?

 

[SB545]

You spent $700 for that? Holy crap... Seems like you could have just bought a quality barrel as mentioned above for that kind of money.

Besides, if you're only expecting MOA - plenty of off the rack bolt guns will do that these days. Even the cheap stuff like Savage and RAR; the factory Tikka barrel should have been better than that. But I didn't read all your other threads on this so maybe there's some other reason for going this route?

Yes, that was on sale even.

I wanted this one for the 5/8" threads with less weight than an all metal sendaro. I tried to go the barrett fieldcraft bell on the end but that was getting complicated and not many mfgs do that kind of custom profile. The sale was enough for me to take the chance.

And yes, I have a few Tikkas that hold sub moa with 10 shot groups. I have 2 different savage rifles that out shoot my skills.

What I've realized from these mistakes is that most customers won't notice or care about the mistakes that happen when cheap labor gets behind the CNC machine. The disappointing part is that the companies don't know or care either.

Caveat Emptor - when it comes to buying barrels, read the return policy. It's like a marriage and I should have prenup with Carbon Six.

 

[Rookie]

Well dang I'm worried now. Just ordered a CF barrel from Carbon Six. Thought I did my research bit apparently not enough. I'm getting a blank to be chambered and threaded by my smith so hopefully it will work out.

 

[FWoo45]

The only non stock barrels I have used have been Bartleins. I have been more than happy with every one. Frank and Co will continue to get my money in the future. I’ve found that it is much cheaper in the long run to buy quality tools than cheap ones.

 

[carbonbased]

I’ve found that it is much cheaper in the long run to buy quality tools than cheap ones.

I agree. The old saw is, “I’m too poor to buy cheap shit.”

 

[Rookie]

CS website says 1/2 minute guarantee

 

[Yondering]

Yes, that was on sale even.

I wanted this one for the 5/8" threads with less weight than an all metal sendaro. I tried to go the barrett fieldcraft bell on the end but that was getting complicated and not many mfgs do that kind of custom profile. The sale was enough for me to take the chance.

And yes, I have a few Tikkas that hold sub moa with 10 shot groups. I have 2 different savage rifles that out shoot my skills.

What I've realized from these mistakes is that most customers won't notice or care about the mistakes that happen when cheap labor gets behind the CNC machine. The disappointing part is that the companies don't know or care either.

Caveat Emptor - when it comes to buying barrels, read the return policy. It's like a marriage and I should have prenup with Carbon Six.

Ouch. Sorry to hear all that. It sucks to think that for that kind of money, the shop couldn't even be bothered to fit the correct pilot bushing to the reamer, or follow good reaming practices to get a good finish.

It kind of makes me think about firing up a barrel business for real, if people are stuck paying that kind of money for shoddy work when I know I could do so much better. But what holds me back is knowing that for each of these horror stories about shops, there are even more horror stories from good shops about bad customers, and I really don't want to deal with that.

BTW, for just getting larger OD threads, maybe contact LRI next time, they could probably do something for you. One example I've used is to thread the OD of the barrel without reducing the diameter beyond what's needed to clean it up, then make a muzzle device to register on the muzzle face instead of a shoulder. Or you can have a shoulder installed, as another option. Either way, you can avoid turning a thicker barrel down to a thin thread diameter, so you won't get that slightly larger bore section that I presume you're trying to avoid.

 

[SB545]

Ouch. Sorry to hear all that. It sucks to think that for that kind of money, the shop couldn't even be bothered to fit the correct pilot bushing to the reamer, or follow good reaming practices to get a good finish.

It kind of makes me think about firing up a barrel business for real, if people are stuck paying that kind of money for shoddy work when I know I could do so much better. But what holds me back is knowing that for each of these horror stories about shops, there are even more horror stories from good shops about bad customers, and I really don't want to deal with that.

BTW, for just getting larger OD threads, maybe contact LRI next time, they could probably do something for you. One example I've used is to thread the OD of the barrel without reducing the diameter beyond what's needed to clean it up, then make a muzzle device to register on the muzzle face instead of a shoulder. Or you can have a shoulder installed, as another option. Either way, you can avoid turning a thicker barrel down to a thin thread diameter, so you won't get that slightly larger bore section that I presume you're trying to avoid.

That is a great idea. I've been thinking of having Garrett at Preece Precision put one together for me from start to finish. When it comes time I'll see if he can do what you described.

 

[carbonbased]

Ouch. Sorry to hear all that. It sucks to think that for that kind of money, the shop couldn't even be bothered to fit the correct pilot bushing to the reamer, or follow good reaming practices to get a good finish.

It kind of makes me think about firing up a barrel business for real, if people are stuck paying that kind of money for shoddy work when I know I could do so much better. But what holds me back is knowing that for each of these horror stories about shops, there are even more horror stories from good shops about bad customers, and I really don't want to deal with that.

BTW, for just getting larger OD threads, maybe contact LRI next time, they could probably do something for you. One example I've used is to thread the OD of the barrel without reducing the diameter beyond what's needed to clean it up, then make a muzzle device to register on the muzzle face instead of a shoulder. Or you can have a shoulder installed, as another option. Either way, you can avoid turning a thicker barrel down to a thin thread diameter, so you won't get that slightly larger bore section that I presume you're trying to avoid.

If I correctly understand what you are describing, another way I’ve heard of doing this is to counterbore the muzzle, make interior threads, and then thread in an adapter.

The bore length decreases about 1/2”, but there is not a section without the full thickness of the barrel around the bore.

Tornado Technologies is known for this type of work but I just read some reviews and they seem to be having issues as they had to move shop. I wouldn’t use them until that’s resolved.

Here is an example (not entirely sure if this is an actual example as it almost looks like this particular adapter is threading onto barrel threads vs threading into the barrel, but hopefully you understand. Got it from TT’s Facebook page)

From what I understand they use this approach on barrels that, say, have a sight post right on the end, or if the barrel terminates right at the end of the stock (Mannlicher) or slide (pistol).

And note that this is what I understand how they approach this problem, as I have never used them. I could be off base.

 

[Yondering]

If I correctly understand what you are describing, another way I’ve heard of doing this is to counterbore the muzzle, make interior threads, and then thread in an adapter.

The bore length decreases about 1/2”, but there is not a section without the full thickness of the barrel around the bore.

Tornado Technologies is known for this type of work but I just read some reviews and they seem to be having issues as they had to move shop. I wouldn’t use them until that’s resolved.

Here is an example (not entirely sure if this is an actual example as it almost looks like this particular adapter is threading onto barrel threads vs threading into the barrel, but hopefully you understand. Got it from TT’s Facebook page)
View attachment 8150233

From what I understand they use this approach on barrels that, say, have a sight post right on the end, or if the barrel terminates right at the end of the stock (Mannlicher) or slide (pistol).

And note that this is what I understand how they approach this problem, as I have never used them. I could be off base.

Yeah that's another way to do it, sometimes. I don't really like it though, for one particular reason - the threaded section that goes into the barrel has a relatively small bore in most cases, sometimes close to bullet diameter and sometimes a bit larger, and with a suppressor it'll tend to build up some thick and stubborn fouling that can affect the bullet. If you let it go too long it can cause baffle strikes, but it'll ruin accuracy before that. This is especially true in .22 LR suppressed applications with lots of exposed lead, although I know the OP wasn't talking about 22 LR.

You can get away from that issue with a thick barrel of course, which has room for much larger threads, but in that case you might as well just use larger external threads anyway. Just my preference of course.

On the front sight thing - I used to thread 10/22 take-off barrels and put the front sights back on. I used a few different methods, all of which started with cutting the barrel right behind the front sight. One method I used was to turn a longer thread than usual, and then thread the cut off portion of front sight to match. I'd screw it on and loctite in place; downside was it took some careful adjustment of the shoulder to time the sight. After that I started just turning a .500" straight section behind the threads, boring the front sight to match, and then doing either a light press fit, solder, or green loctite. I settled on green #680 Loctite as the best method; the bond was plenty strong enough and it was the easiest to get it aligned right.

 

[Seymour Fish]

6 groove barrel? Cut or button rifled?

Not sure what a smith can do to "fix" anything...... if you're worried about the cut marks remember they are magnified by your bore scope...... best way to smooth them out is to just shoot it, they'll be gone in a couple hundred rounds.

Or you could hit those reamer marks with a few short strokes with JB, Iosso, or 0.25 micron diamond, as it will likely copper-foul until firing lays that down

 

[RTH1800]

Throat appears to be National Fine thread. Just get some threaded bullets and drive on