Accuracy expectations for a PRS rifle

[DoubleOught-BMA]

Hey hide - gonna swallow my pride. I've been a regular visitor here for several years and I kinda get the impression that everyone has a sub quarter-minute gun. I know there are some cherry-picked groups posted up here- sure. But I feel like the vast majority are at least consistent 3/8" shooters or better. My current PRS rig (new build this year) was chambered and built by a reputable smith everyone knows from here with a Bartlein barrel - chambered in 6XC. All this to say I feel like the rifle is capable (or should be) of quarter minute, 5 shot groups every time (unrealistic?).

But in my average "5 groups x 5 shot" sessions, I consistently only get about 0.55 - 0.6 avg for the total of 5 groups (25 shots) with this "match" gun. So rather than practice building positions and practicing PRS-type stuff at distance and gathering DOPE.... I'm wasting time trying different seating depths, load configurations, bullets, etc. at 100 yds. Everything shoots the same.

Given that we're engaging ~2MOA targets most of the time in these matches, should I stop worrying about finding that super-secret recipe my gun wants for shooting bugholes (assuming it can and I have the skill)... and call it good and stop obsessing about it? I mean... at distance and under the clock, how much will that delta in accuracy really matter? I'm thinking I'll be the limiting factor at that point... not the gun. But to be honest, my old Savage in 6.5 creedmoor was a consistent 0.7 shooter. Maybe my expectations are unrealistic but I see a lot of "hammer" and "bughole" pics on here that suggest otherwise.

Final disclaimer - I'm gonna try RL-17 next weekend so maybe the jump from H4350 will do the trick... lol. I can't help myself. I just need to pick one and be done with it. Or do I keep pressing? Sorry if these are dumb questions - I love the community here and since y'all have cost me a shit ton of money, figured I throw this out there.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You’ll probably miss 50 shots because of a bad wind call or position before you’ll miss one because your gun is shooting 1/2moa instead of 1/4moa.

That said, it’d still probably bother me when I know it’s capable of better. I’d look at runout on your loaded ammo if you haven’t already.

 

[just browsing]

Aside from zeroing, I rarely ever shoot my rifles at 100. To be honest I just don’t care what kind of group they shoot at that distance.

Fact of the matter is, 100 yard groups/accuracy do not always translate to accuracy at distance. So work on your speeds, consistency, and predictability where impacts matter... not at 100 yards to appease some internet chat board guys.

Take a look around at any of the really competitive guys. There are always exceptions, but the vast majority of them let their shooting do the talking rather than posting pictures of their tiny groups. With whom you’d rather be associated with is up to you.

 

[morganlamprecht]

at the end of last year, before our local club finale...the barrel I used all year was on its last leg

I shot this a couple days before that finale, checking zero...was too late to do anything about it at that point so I just ran it

still finished 3rd outta 45 shooters and shot 79% for the match (which included me shooting some targets out of order costing points)

I had just shot the NRL finale the weekend prior, not sure when the barrel took a dump, but I didn’t notice it at the nrl finale during the stages

if the rifle consistently shoots .5-.6 from prone/bench

Work on consistently shooting .6-.7 from positions and you’ll smoke 95% of everyone

 

[Ledzep]

I have a 3/4" barrel. I use it for practice and I'm not scared to flog it a bit. I wouldn't really be concerned to run a local match with it. If you're in the top 10 consistently, it might be the edge that gets you a place or three higher. If not, and you're just there for fun, it really won't amount to much as far as scores unless you let it get in your head.

For serious matches I have a barrel set aside that shoots quite a bit better. It's mostly for the "warm fuzzy".

 

[Steel head]

.5-.6 is plenty accurate

As said above wind will hurt far more than maybe an eighth or two in group size.

 

[Sheldon N]

should I stop worrying about finding that super-secret recipe my gun wants for shooting bugholes (assuming it can and I have the skill)... and call it good and stop obsessing about it?

Yes.

You won't hear it advertised publicly, but I know of situations where national level matches have been WON with a gun that was shooting close to 1MOA. Time's running out, gun's not shooting good, no time to change barrels or redo load development, just load it and go shoot.

Good enough is good enough.

 

[spife7980]

Id quit testing up close and move the paper out to 500 or so, see if its still acceptable, if so then youre good to go. At 500 I like to be able to cover a group with my spread hand. If I can do that its not holding me back from making hits on steel at all.

I was getting pissed like you are with my new short 6xc barrel on my rifle thats gotten relegated to piddling duty. So I took it to 500, ran some 4 shot groups and it turns out that 1moa group looks better at 500 that it does at 100 and I can live with it just fine.

 

[DoubleOught-BMA]

Y'all are good people... thanks for the many replies in a short amount of time.

To address some of the above... yes - my biggest hurdle is not letting it get in my head! I have a tendency to do that. It was in my head before I took delivery of the rifle that I'd be the owner of a sweet, new, high-end, custom PRS rig that would mostly see competition but also knock out 1 hole groups like nothing. Then my frustration grows as I can't find that node.

All that said - it ain't the barrel... it ain't the gun. It's gotta be an ammo issue. I'm gonna go back and look at runout just because I know the gun can do it. But... then again... I'm just wasting time, money and ammo dicking around at 100yds when I should be practicing at distance, in wind from positions. But it's an itch I can't scratch. Driving me crazy. Thanks again for the different perspectives.

 

[HerveyHervey]

Cal Zant at Precision Rifle Blog did a really good article on how much group size matters. Based on his data you increase your chances of making a hit by around 2% going from what you have now to shooting .3 MOA groups. If I were you I would just go shoot and work on making good wind calls.

How Much Does Group Size Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. We think everything is important...

precisionrifleblog.com

How Much Does Wind Reading Ability Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[tsu45]

Cal Zant at Precision Rifle Blog did a really good article on how much group size matters. Based on his data you increase your chances of making a hit by around 2% going from what you have now to shooting .3 MOA groups. If I were you I would just go shoot and work on making good wind calls.

How Much Does Group Size Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. We think everything is important...

precisionrifleblog.com

How Much Does Wind Reading Ability Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

Always nice to see it when numbers are put to it.

 

[DoubleOught-BMA]

Huh - that is pretty interesting! I figured it wouldn't matter as much as I thought it did... but damn. I've been needlessly obsessing over tiny gains when I should have been working on wind calls - arghh!! Anyway - thanks fellas (and/or ladies) - always good insight in here.

 

[Campguy308]

Your groups are not uncommon. I've owned some rifles that seem finicky at 100, but seem to shoot well at distance. This may be counter intuitive, but I've seen it over and over. The guys at bangsteel.com have a lot of insight into this occurence.

Plus, people always post their best groups. I'll tell you right now, I've shot some bug hole 5 shot groups, but I've shot way more .75 groups at 100.

 

[Sig Marine]

I’ve always told shooters that if you and your rifle can shoot a 10-shot group that you can cover with a quarter (approx 1 MOA), go learn wind.

 

[phlegethon]

A lot of people exaggerate. People also claim they have sub-half-MOA AR-15s and AR-10s...but they don't post a lot of 5x5 targets.

 

[Markg90]

Hey hide - gonna swallow my pride. I've been a regular visitor here for several years and I kinda get the impression that everyone has a sub quarter-minute gun. I know there are some cherry-picked groups posted up here- sure. But I feel like the vast majority are at least consistent 3/8" shooters or better. My current PRS rig (new build this year) was chambered and built by a reputable smith everyone knows from here with a Bartlein barrel - chambered in 6XC. All this to say I feel like the rifle is capable (or should be) of quarter minute, 5 shot groups every time (unrealistic?).

But in my average "5 groups x 5 shot" sessions, I consistently only get about 0.55 - 0.6 avg for the total of 5 groups (25 shots) with this "match" gun. So rather than practice building positions and practicing PRS-type stuff at distance and gathering DOPE.... I'm wasting time trying different seating depths, load configurations, bullets, etc. at 100 yds. Everything shoots the same.

Given that we're engaging ~2MOA targets most of the time in these matches, should I stop worrying about finding that super-secret recipe my gun wants for shooting bugholes (assuming it can and I have the skill)... and call it good and stop obsessing about it? I mean... at distance and under the clock, how much will that delta in accuracy really matter? I'm thinking I'll be the limiting factor at that point... not the gun. But to be honest, my old Savage in 6.5 creedmoor was a consistent 0.7 shooter. Maybe my expectations are unrealistic but I see a lot of "hammer" and "bughole" pics on here that suggest otherwise.

Final disclaimer - I'm gonna try RL-17 next weekend so maybe the jump from H4350 will do the trick... lol. I can't help myself. I just need to pick one and be done with it. Or do I keep pressing? Sorry if these are dumb questions - I love the community here and since y'all have cost me a shit ton of money, figured I throw this out there.

I’m in the same boat as you. Same barrel reputable smith consistent 5/8 moa avg. but 6.5 creedmoor

 

[mikeshaw2]

You’ll probably miss 50 shots because of a bad wind call or position before you’ll miss one because your gun is shooting 1/2moa instead of 1/4moa.

That said, it’d still probably bother me when I know it’s capable of better. I’d look at runout on your loaded ammo if you haven’t already.

IME you'll miss a lot more because you haven't built a steady position and your reticle is all over the place

Moving between positions amplifies that problem

Being on the clock aggravates both the movement and the 'where'd the target go?' and the reticle movement and all the rest of the stuff that adds to stress when you've got 90sec to shoot 11 rounds accurately from weird positions

At least IME

M

 

[Precision Underground]

I’m in the same boat as you. Same barrel reputable smith consistent 5/8 moa avg. but 6.5 creedmoor

Old thread but don’t let the internet snipers discourage you. 1/2-3/4 moa is plenty good to shoot prs. I’d be willing to bet that most who claim they can can shoot 1/4 moa on command from a bipod can’t actually do it. The 1/4 moa group is just the one that they post. Don’t bog yourself down trying to shoot tiny groups. Shoot groups to prove dope and then work on positions and recoil management. Learning recoil management means you are doing it right. Shooting good groups doesn’t necessarily mean you’re doing it right.