Sidearms & Scatterguns Accuracy for IDPA

[wwrhodes91]

Hello everyone,
I haven't shot handguns much in the last year or so due to price (and focusing on rifle), but I just got into reloading and I'm looking into doing some local IDPA matches. I went out to the range and shot 60 9mm (Didn't load any more since it was my first time loading 9mm and I didn't want to load much until I knew it worked) and about 200 .22 rounds. I tried to go at about 2 shots/sec pace from 15 and 20 yards. Here is my second target. I have no idea what kind of accuracy is considered good for handguns. Do you guys think I should try to focus more on tightening groups or working on speed? The extreme spread for the 9mm holes is 5". Thanks.

 

[titandriver]

Well. since their stated goal is: <<IDPA is a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters.>> I can't imagine too many self defense encounters that take place at 20 yards! So yeah, you're good to go accuracy-wise.

 

[wwrhodes91]

Well. since their stated goal is: <<IDPA is a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters.>> I can't imagine too many self defense encounters that take place at 20 yards! So yeah, you're good to go accuracy-wise.

Thanks for the reply. Do you think I should focus more on building speed and controlling recoil then?

 

[steve123]

Accuracy first, then speed.

Your grouping is fine but under the stress of competition all the weaknesses in your form will come out, so the best thing to do is only shoot fast enough to make center hits.

Also there's plenty of other things you'll need to learn and will have to think about while you are shooting a stage.

Just show up to the match, be safe, have fun and the rest will come in time.

 

[titandriver]

Well, I've never shot IDPA but I have been a USPSA GM in Limited and Open since 1997 so here is what I'd concentrate on initially: a smooth, quick, consistent draw first. Than learn to see your front sight lift at the moment you fire so you can call your shots with a degree of precision. Once you learn to call your shots you can transition instantly to the next target because you know exactly where your shots impact the previous target. Then learn to reload quickly and efficiently.

And probably most important, read the rulebook! It actually is a game after all so it helps to know how to play!

 

[Spiff034]

5" at 20 yds is fine for starting out in action pistol. Don't think of it as controlling recoil. Focus on putting every shot into the -0 (especially important in IDPA) and speed will come automatically. Good grip strength and learning to observe the sights as they recoil are all skills that play into that. When I break a shot out of my competition pistols I'm actually waiting for the front sight to naturally settle back down into the rear sight and have the trigger prepped to finish breaking the shot as soon as the sights are realigned.

When you're shooting groups, shoot groups, and when you're working on speed, work on speed. If you want to mix the two then hang an actual IDPA/IPSC target up and shoot as fast as you can keep them in the -0 / A zone. Or find a plate rack and shoot it as fast as you can without missing. After you have good fundamentals (grip, sight alignment, trigger control) and determine what an acceptable sight picture is, your sights will tell you exactly how fast you can go.

Also check out USPSA, more shooting for your range time.

 

[Graham]

Accuracy for IDPA

If you shoot 5" at 20 yards you're doing it wrong.

Practicing for speed, shooting as fast as you can, is a waste of time and ammo.

I agree with letting your sights dictate the cadence of fire.

 

[wwrhodes91]

If you shoot 5" at 20 yards you're doing it wrong.

Practicing for speed, shooting as fast as you can, is a waste of time and ammo.

I agree with letting your sights dictate the cadence of fire.

Well that was the spread for 30+ shots. 5 rounds groups were about 2.5" on average.

 

[Graham]

Accuracy for IDPA

As in practical precision rifle shooting, shooting dots is more productive than is shooting groups.

 

[wwrhodes91]

As in practical precision rifle shooting, shooting dots is more productive than is shooting groups.

I'm looking to buy a steel shooting tree. I only shot groups today because it is my first time shooting pistol in over a year and I wanted to see what my reloads were doing.

 

[EddieNFL]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=87uLvYvcOtJSN_S5yHp0XQ&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cGU

 

[titandriver]

YEP!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=87uLvYvcOtJSN_S5yHp0XQ&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cGU

 

[17874]

IDPA has an 8" circle (A zone) in the center of the target for 0 time added to your raw score. As accuracy decreases then penalties start to add up and get added to your score.

Work on being smooth from the holster and getting your hits. The speed will come.

You can gain a lot of speed with your movement and manipulation of the weapon.

 

[wwrhodes91]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=87uLvYvcOtJSN_S5yHp0XQ&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cGU

Interesting, but how do you determine what the right balance is? All C and up hits? All A hits? All hits period?

 

[gaphighpower]

+1 to the above.

If your range/club allows, you need to also work on these skills...

Drawing from a holster (a lot of scenarios require concealment of said holster).

Double tapping (two quick to the body) and a lot scenarios require one-to-the-head.

Movement while shooting

The hardest part for me was getting past the first couple of matches - getting the feel for speed vs. accuracy, without tripping over myself.

After that its a shitload of fun and more importantly practical experience for carrying concealed.

Enjoy your match(es)!

 

[titandriver]

wwrhodes -- in USPSA, to place consistently high, you need to shoot at least 93-95% of the available points and do so very quickly! Calling your shots and trigger control is something you must master before you get all out-of-sorts with blazing speed.

 

[Spiff034]

Yep. Have to get points or the speed doesn't matter. IDPA is even more accuracy centric than USPSA, penalties are brutal at least from what I remember.

 

[titandriver]

Here's a great video of something you should incorporate into your training regimen
Rob Leatham Training with the Action Target Torso : Action Target

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

When you talk about working on "speed" what do you mean? You can reduce your time quite a bit by improving the draw, reloading, shooting while moving, target acquisition, and studying the mental part of the game. Working on how fast you can "double tap" won't do much overall. Go shoot a classifier or download the classifier from the IDPA website and set it up and shoot at home, that will give you an idea of the overall skill set you'll need. Also study the scoring system and see how accuracy relates to time/score.

 

[rr4406pak]

To address the original question, that's more than enough accuracy for IDPA.
Lot of great advice here as well.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Just curious but nobody ask what weapon you were shooting was it an xd a 1911 in 9mm or a subcompact.

 

[wwrhodes91]

Just curious but nobody ask what weapon you were shooting was it an xd a 1911 in 9mm or a subcompact.

Glock 34. Stock except dawson sights and 14 lb recoil spring. Also polished the trigger

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Good choice should be a plenty capable weapon

 

[devildawg2531]

I shoot IDPA and various steel pistol competitions. Just go to IDPA your 1st time and focus on safely navigating the course of fire and accuracy (don't rush). Run your concealment holster (OWB is best) and carry 2 extra mag's. You wont win anyting regardless and after going some you can begin to focus on speed, accuracy and course strategy to improve your score. IDPA is a BLAST

 

[EddieNFL]

IDPA is even more accuracy centric than USPSA, penalties are brutal at least from what I remember.

Not sure if the penalties remark was directed at IDPA or USPSA. USPSA penalties are, as you said, brutal. It's possible to have a negative score.

 

[titandriver]

Eddie -- I'm not following the negative score thing in USPSA. I've been shooting it for over 23 years and have never seen, or even heard of, a negative score. This is from the current rulebook: 9.5.6 The minimum score for a course of fire or string will be zero.

Not sure if the penalties remark was directed at IDPA or USPSA. USPSA penalties are, as you said, brutal. It's possible to have a negative score.

 

[EddieNFL]

Eddie -- I'm not following the negative score thing in USPSA. I've been shooting it for over 23 years and have never seen, or even heard of, a negative score. This is from the current rulebook: 9.5.6 The minimum score for a course of fire or string will be zero.

That's about the time I left for Korea. Never did get back into USPSA, but drifted over to IDPA. I don't recall what the rulebook said in the late '80s/early '90s, but I remember guys racking enough misses and penalties to numerically go in the hole. IDPA scoring - elementary math; USPSA scoring - Calculus II.

 

[titandriver]

That could be the case then, I know the rulebook was paper thin when I started! Did you get to do any of this kind of stuff? Viking Match 1983 - YouTube Pretty awesome stage, couldn't do it for certain now! Well, I might but I don't think I could walk the next day!

That's about the time I left for Korea. Never did get back into USPSA, but drifted over to IDPA. I don't recall what the rulebook said in the late '80s/early '90s, but I remember guys racking enough misses and penalties to numerically go in the hole. IDPA scoring - elementary math; USPSA scoring - Calculus II.

 

[EddieNFL]

Did you get to do any of this kind of stuff?

Sure did. Shot a partner down stage at a state match around '88. You had to clear and drop your weapon and pass through a tunnel to reach your partner, retrieve and load his weapon and knock down a couple of steel plates. Most guys were crawling through the tunnel. I decided to "ape walk." When I cleared the tube I started running too soon and tried to upright myself, but realized it was a losing battle pretty quickly. When I new I was going down I jumped as hard as I could. I landed on the dummy with my right hand on the revolver. Couldn't do it again if I tried, but I got up acting as if I planned the whole thing.

 

[slowlearner]

I shoot both IDPA and USPSA, and that will be plenty accurate to start out. The most important part is being safe. I personally have started to try and shoot more "clean" stages in IDPA, focusing on accuracy first. Speed will come in time. IDPA has some odd rules, so be aware of that going in (no reloading while moving).

 

[ZLBubba]

I shoot both IDPA and USPSA, and that will be plenty accurate to start out. The most important part is being safe. I personally have started to try and shoot more "clean" stages in IDPA, focusing on accuracy first. Speed will come in time. IDPA has some odd rules, so be aware of that going in (no reloading while moving).

This is some solid advice. Go to some comps, focus on being safe and not getting procedurals. Then focus on cleaning stages, then speed it up. I've started placing much higher through good accuracy than speeding through stages. Speed comes with time, while accuracy does not.

 

[HD1911]

I shoot both IDPA and USPSA, and that will be plenty accurate to start out. The most important part is being safe. I personally have started to try and shoot more "clean" stages in IDPA, focusing on accuracy first. Speed will come in time. IDPA has some odd rules, so be aware of that going in (no reloading while moving).

*Disregard, I just realized that this just recently changed*

 

[EddieNFL]

The change allows a reload to be started IF you run dry while advancing, but must reach the nexy shooting position before engaging the next target. You can no longer move behind cover while reloading. The exception is while behind a Bainchi barricade.

 

[HD1911]

The change allows a reload to be started IF you run dry while advancing, but must reach the nexy shooting position before engaging the next target. You can no longer move behind cover while reloading. The exception is while behind a Bainchi barricade.

Right....I'm just being re-affirmed on why I no longer shoot IDPA.

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm sure you're missed.

IYAAYAS

 

[slowlearner]

The new rule for the "No moving while re-loading" thing just went into effect only a few months ago. The re-loading while moving to cover is also slightly silly, because if you are caught in the open, you actually are supposed to go back (retreat) towards your last cover, before you can move forward again. Their theory (so it was explained by my local match director) is that it prevents you from charging into an area that has not been cleared, with no ammo. Now if you want wish to subscribe to that idea, go for it.

IDPA is turning into "I don't play anymore" for me. Silly rules, and a lower round count. I shoot my Glock 19 in both IDPA and USPSA, so it doesn't bother me which I shoot.

As far as the accuracy thing first goes...My wife has beaten me on a few stages even though she just started, because she was more accurate than me. Speed is not always the answer.

Be safe, have fun. I have gotten to meet awesome people through both.

 

[Sig Marine]

We get new shooters at our monthly IDPA matches on a regular basis and the first word out of the match directors mouth, like stated above, are "we're here to practice safe gun handling and have fun". We do have a few shooters who put on "game faces" but for the most part, it's fairly relaxed and everyone has a great time. Shoot a good stage and they're quick to praise. Shoot a bad stage and nobody says much. Probably because they know that it happens to everyone and they could be next, no matter how good they are or think they are.

As for setting up the classifier stage and practicing, I'd advise against it. The worse thing you can do is become practice perfect and get ranked higher than your skills actually justify. Just go shoot some matches, practice the various skills required and when the classifier comes around, you'll do fine.

 

[leadbullet]

if you and your pistol ammo combo can hold 4" at 25 yds you'll grand master in no time. don't worry too much about accuracy, practice, drawing and first shot under 1.3 sec- reloads under 1.5sec, strong hand and weak hand only and you'll do really good.