Accuracy International honest accuracy

[verdugo60]

Curious what you guys think... I have been doing load development for a new barrel in my AI AT. It's a 6mm br using Lapua brass and Sierra 95 gr tmk's.

I shot 13 five shot groups today at 100 yards playing with seating depths and once fired vs brand new brass and averaged .59" between all 13. My best was in the .3's the worst (and only one over an inch) was 1.08".

I have shot one hole groups in the .0's and .1's with other rifles but never this barrel.

I'm wondering if I should just load a bunch from the .3" group recipe and call it good? I know we hear about sub 1/2 moa rifles all the time but I'm curious if they are consistently that accurate?

I guess I'm just trying to get some honest feedback and also start a discussion on "real" accuracy averages and not "pick your best group to post."

Part of me wants to call it good and start mass loading, the other part wants to try a different powder and tinker a bit more to find a consistent sub 1/2 moa load.

 

[MarinePMI]

Dude. .3" is good enough. Don't obsess. Load ammo. Go shoot.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I use to spend so much time chasing the smallest group I could load/shoot. Now when I find a load that gets me 1/2 moa and chronos well, I am done.

Obessing is eating up your barrel life. Load up the tightest group you shot with the best chrono numbers and enjoy.

 

[Smooth_87]

I use to spend so much time chasing the smallest group I could load/shoot. Now when I find a load that gets me 1/2 moa and chronos well, I am done.

Obessing is eating up your barrel life. Load up the tightest group you shot with the best chrono numbers and enjoy.

I agree half Moa an I waste no more on groups.

 

[supratt96]

I've only owned three rifles that would CONSISTENTLY shoot sub 1/2 MOA. Surprisingly, two of them were factory guns. One is a Savage F-class rifle and the other a TRG-22. The third is a Ruger RPR re-barreled to 6 Dasher. All three of these rifles will average in the .3s which I believe is as good as I am capable of shooting.

 

[OH58DViper]

Shot these today after reading this thread in the AM. Not the best but then again this is a seating depth test and the winds were no joke 20-30 MPH #F¥£kKansas. However, .4xx inch average for a 5x5 ain’t bad for working up a load in crap weather

 

[Servo93]

My 6.5 Creed barrel on my AT will average .450” to .550” at 100 yards with me behind the trigger. Like every one else is saying, I find something that gets me about 1/2” consistently and let it be. What separates my AI from other rifles is that i seem to shoot it well everytime. Very rare i have a bad day with it.

 

[S12A]

.3 is awesome ...

 

[W54/XM-388]

When setting up my AW initially, shooting .308 with the 155 Lapua factory loads, when I tested the rifle in a mechanical hydraulic rest with a remote trigger release, no wind & barrel clean after every shot, it was basically an all the bullets in the same hole gun at 100 yards.

So now when I shoot it, I know it's always me that is the limiting factor on the accuracy.

On the part where you mention you got better accuracy with different rifles, were those also AI rifles or were they custom jobs with really light triggers? The trigger pull weight going higher can make for you being the cause of not perfectly broken shots if you are not careful.
You could try adjusting your AI trigger down to be a 2 pound or so single stage feeling job and see if your groups tighten up a bit.

 

[PAYDIRT]

When setting up my AW initially, shooting .308 with the 155 Lapua factory loads, when I tested the rifle in a mechanical hydraulic rest with a remote trigger release, no wind & barrel clean after every shot, it was basically an all the bullets in the same hole gun at 100 yards.

So now when I shoot it, I know it's always me that is the limiting factor on the accuracy.

On the part where you mention you got better accuracy with different rifles, were those also AI rifles or were they custom jobs with really light triggers? The trigger pull weight going higher can make for you being the cause of not perfectly broken shots if you are not careful.
You could try adjusting your AI trigger down to be a 2 pound or so single stage feeling job and see if your groups tighten up a bit.

What rest are you using? I see so many people posting groups and wonder about the "if I do my part".

 

[W54/XM-388]

One like this:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...shooting-rest-with-remote-triggering?a=569513

But just keep in mind, the cheap built ones only last a short time due to getting beaten loose, but will last long enough to get everything worked out.

One day I'll spend the $1500 to get a really good one.

 

[verdugo60]

Shot these today after reading this thread in the AM. Not the best but then again this is a seating depth test and the winds were no joke 20-30 MPH #F¥£kKansas. However, .4xx inch average for a 5x5 ain’t bad for working up a load in crap weather


View attachment 6889311

Good shooting, that's the exact target I used, lol.

Another thing on group shooting... I was using a Vortex AMG. Great scope but when I shot my buddies Nightforce for him last week (5 shots in .2" with fggm) I noticed his Tremor 3 reticle made holding more precise easier for groups because of the tiny center dot. I don't care that much because it's a field gun for shooting far but I do wonder if things would tighten up when shooting close with a similar reticle.

 

[verdugo60]

When setting up my AW initially, shooting .308 with the 155 Lapua factory loads, when I tested the rifle in a mechanical hydraulic rest with a remote trigger release, no wind & barrel clean after every shot, it was basically an all the bullets in the same hole gun at 100 yards.

So now when I shoot it, I know it's always me that is the limiting factor on the accuracy.

On the part where you mention you got better accuracy with different rifles, were those also AI rifles or were they custom jobs with really light triggers? The trigger pull weight going higher can make for you being the cause of not perfectly broken shots if you are not careful.
You could try adjusting your AI trigger down to be a 2 pound or so single stage feeling job and see if your groups tighten up a bit.

It was a custom Tikka LRI built for me. Factory ammo actually shot better than my handloads in that gun, shots #3-8 in that rifle were one single hole, essentially .0" group. It's now opened up to 3/8-3/4 on average.

The trigger is so reliable I don't know that I'll mess with it, maybe lighten it slightly but I like that with thousands of rounds on 5 different barrels the AI has never once had an issue and I have shot it in blizzards, talcum powder dust in Idaho and Colorado fine grit with narry one hickup.

 

[verdugo60]

When setting up my AW initially, shooting .308 with the 155 Lapua factory loads, when I tested the rifle in a mechanical hydraulic rest with a remote trigger release, no wind & barrel clean after every shot, it was basically an all the bullets in the same hole gun at 100 yards.

So now when I shoot it, I know it's always me that is the limiting factor on the accuracy.

On the part where you mention you got better accuracy with different rifles, were those also AI rifles or were they custom jobs with really light triggers? The trigger pull weight going higher can make for you being the cause of not perfectly broken shots if you are not careful.
You could try adjusting your AI trigger down to be a 2 pound or so single stage feeling job and see if your groups tighten up a bit.

Sometimes I wonder why I hassle handloading when factory ammo shoots so well.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Have you tried different bullets. Barrels are like women, they all like something different.
If the barrel doesn't like the bullet there is nothing you can do to make it shoot consistently well.

 

[OH58DViper]

Sometimes I wonder why I hassle handloading when factory ammo shoots so well.

I’ll address a couple things you have posted in this response.

I agree 100% that the reticle makes a difference, I use the new EBR 7B reticle with the floating dot and it’s easier to hold in the bench rest targets by putting the little dot in the big circle. I love the EBR 7B and the SKMR3, floating dots are my new ish.

I would not get super excited about the factory Ammo unless it’s giving great ES and SD’s, something factory Ammo rarely delivers on. Look at my target above and check the velocity numbers, target 4 is probably what I’ll go with as the numbers were the best with it. However, target 1 had the first 4 go into one hole and the last round was actually colored red for “damaged.” It got caught on the feed ramps and when I checked it the meplat was jacked. I did this at home while chamber testing with a new headspace load. If you remove that round it was an ES of 11 and SD of 5 and a group in the .1x realm. Target S was the smallest but the numbers start sucking away from the lands. While prime Ammo groups well for me, 1/2 MOA or better most of the time @100, the ES is 40-60. If you run the numbers in a ballistic app you will see that becomes significant down range.

In your original post did you just guess where to start? Did you run a ladder test or OCW? Here’s my ladder tests with FG210M primers, I ran some with BR2’s but there weren’t near as good. I shot a lot in between these two and you can see it was right around the 100-200 rd mark as the barrel sped up between. Settled at 42.46 of H4350 and the above target was the result.

Last, I’d be trying a 105 Berger or Dtacs..... just my $.02

 

[fx77]

I think in Brian Litz's book on LRS , he seems to report that building a less than 1/2 MOA rifle is asymptotic with your ultimate outcome, and may not be worth the sdditional financial investment., That you are metaphorically guilding the lilly. More time on consistent ammo development and wind reading are of greater value.

 

[verdugo60]

Good advice thanks guys. I may try varget with some dtacs I have laying around. Or I may say screw it and load 500 of this slower load so I don't have to worry come summer time...

 

[Yang.Dongbin]

For quanlity rifles, like AI or TRG, half MOA is really not difficult. I got my AI AWP, 20" factory barrel, on Jan 2016, and took it out when it's getting warm. The first 5 shots in 100 meter is,

Then, I did a load development, and this target paper is from when I playing with its seating depths on Oct, same year.

Some things need to be notice,
1. I'm using mixed second hand lapua brass. Very cheap, I know.
2. The powder charge used in this attempt(42.0gr) is not an OCW charge. High/low node should be 45.7gr and 39.2gr.
3. For the group in the right-bottom, there is one shot caused by me, my support hand was so tired, after that many shots, that it can't squeeze rear bag very stable, which cause that shot is a little high. Not an excuse, just don't want you're be misleading.
4. I'm not a good shooter, and I don't do breath control, follow though .etc. I believe it will help accuracy, just didn't feel comfortable to do it.
5. +xx means xx thousandth off land.


I did take this rifle out twice after. Both are very cold, I'm from Canada, you got the idea how cold it will be in nov. anyway, i still got 2 out of three are sub quarter moa.

Can't resist to register and post my reply. will update my TRG target paper I shot last month in a minute.

 

[Yang.Dongbin]

TRG22 target paper, which I shot two weeks ago. Still cold here, but you can get a brief idea how a TRG shoots.

 

[j741]

TRG22 target paper, which I shot two weeks ago. Still cold here, but you can get a brief idea how a TRG shoots.

What app is that? Been looking for a good iOS app like that.

 

[Yang.Dongbin]

SubMOA from app store.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Anything similar for Android?

 

[Yang.Dongbin]

Android version is called Range Buddy, you can find it in Google Play.
Enjoy