Accuracy International Kool-aid

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

How is it that some people can argue with others without ever attempting to define the terms being used?

The purpose of using good ammunition is to eliminate as much as possible a key variable in the shooting process. I shoot good ammo because, unlike so much else in the 'game', finding it and using it is within my control. Better ammo reduces flyers and provides me with the consistency I need to work on other aspects of the process. Shooting at distance is difficult enough without worrying about whether what is happening downrange is the fault of the ammunition.

In sum, if my ammunition doesn't oushoot the rifle it is of no use to me because gun + rifle is a system. A 1 MOA rifle with 1 MOA ammo is not a 1 MOA system it's a (slightly less than) 2 MOA system.

Besides, without good ammunition there is no way to properly measure the performance potential of the rifle in the first place.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In sum, if my ammunition doesn't oushoot the rifle it is of no use to me because gun + rifle is a system. A 1 MOA rifle with 1 MOA ammo is not a 1 MOA system it's a (slightly less than) 2 MOA system.

</div></div>

lolwut?

If you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle...

If it shoots 2MOA with a rifle and ammo combo that is capable of 1MOA that's because of you, not the gun or ammo.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

Just for you guys I'm going drag out some ball, and FGMM instead of the normal handloads and I'll forgo my usual distance steel banging to sit and shoot 100 yard groups. I'll shoot 5 groups of 5 for each type of ammo, the ball, FGMM and handloads but I already know what it's going to do because I've done it time and time again. The ball is going to produce consistent 1MOA groups while the handloads and FGMM is going to produce 1/4MOA groups and they will all be consistent and will all show the flyer I usually pull .5MOA left every 3rd group or so. I've done this time and time again and know my and my rifles capability. If I have time after all that I'll also shoot a few at 200, 300, and 600 to show you that it holds it and you most definintely CAN see shooter error with consistent 1MOA ammo just like you can with more accurate ammo.

 

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lolwut? If you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle... If it shoots 2MOA with a rifle and ammo combo that is capable of 1MOA that's because of you, not the gun or ammo. </div></div>Except that's not what you said the first time, and that's not even close to what I posted.

Let me explain it again:

Assume a rifle that, if shooting 'perfect' ammo, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Assume ammo that, if fired in a 'perfect' rifle, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Put them together and the worst result will be a system that shoots 1/2 MOA, with the overall result a system that shoots between 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA.

It's just numbers theory with a minor amount of math, neither of which I ever claimed to be good at, but then this ain't rocket science.

 

[sniper307]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

wow, my post has become a pissing match.

 

[sniper307]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

well if anyone cares, i am getting used to the trigger and it is producing some nice groups.



with my BETTER THAN MOA ammo.... cause thats all i got. damn, i had to stir the pot. lol. thanks fellas for the entertainment

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lolwut? If you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle you have a rifle and ammo that will shoot minute of angle... If it shoots 2MOA with a rifle and ammo combo that is capable of 1MOA that's because of you, not the gun or ammo. </div></div>Except that's not what you said the first time, and that's not even close to what I posted.

Let me explain it again:

Assume a rifle that, if shooting 'perfect' ammo, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Assume ammo that, if fired in a 'perfect' rifle, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Put them together and the worst result will be a system that shoots 1/2 MOA, with the overall result a system that shoots between 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA.

It's just numbers theory with a minor amount of math, neither of which I ever claimed to be good at, but then this ain't rocket science. </div></div>

That makes absolutely zero sense. If you have a rifle with a load that is capable of 1/4MOA it's as simple as that.

Your right it isn't rocket science, it's simple common sense. It has NOTHING to do with what the individual round being fired is capable of because every gun will shoot it differently. You can't say "this FGMM 168 is 1/2MOA ammo" because one rifle may shoot it 1/2MOA, another may shoot it 1/4MOA and another may shoot it 1MOA. If you get a combo that will shoot 1/4MOA it will shoot fucking 1/4MOA not 1/2MOA and if it does open up to 1/2MOA ITS THE SHOOTER. In other words if I put FGMM in my AI AE and it prints consistent 1/4MOA (which is does as long as I do everything right) then its a 1/4MOA combo. Why is this so damn hard to understand? You don't multiply what a rifle shoots with a certain type of ammo by 2. Thats dumber than wiping before you take a shit.

Have the counter sniper and barska scope threads been fucking peoples heads up or something?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper307</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well if anyone cares, i am getting used to the trigger and it is producing some nice groups.



with my BETTER THAN MOA ammo.... cause thats all i got. damn, i had to stir the pot. lol. thanks fellas for the entertainment </div></div>

Nice to hear. It's just a matter of getting used to the rifle, that is all.

 

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your right it isn't rocket science, it's simple common sense. It has NOTHING to do with what the individual round being fired is capable of because every gun will shoot it differently. You can't say "this FGMM 168 is 1/2MOA ammo" because one rifle may shoot it 1/2MOA, another may shoot it 1/4MOA and another may shoot it 1MOA. If you get a combo that will shoot 1/4MOA it will shoot fucking 1/4MOA not 1/2MOA and if it does open up to 1/2MOA ITS THE SHOOTER. In other words if I put FGMM in my AI AE and it prints consistent 1/4MOA (which is does as long as I do everything right) then its a 1/4MOA combo. Why is this so damn hard to understand? You don't multiply what a rifle shoots with a certain type of ammo by 2. Thats dumber than wiping before you take a shit. Have the counter sniper and barska scope threads been fucking peoples heads up or something? </div></div>Not only did you hijack this Thread, then argue with and disrepect Lonewolf and others who clearly have more knowledge, skills, and abilities than you do, but now you also insist on being a Troll. Read again what you wrote: It's one thing not to have a clue. It's quite another to advertise it.

 

[BLANKSGUNS]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

"sniper307", you are fine, pissing matches can start with anything at anytime on the hide, so no worries. So back to your post, that is good news, shoot the ammo you feel comfortable with, enjoy the range time, enjoy the alone time with the new rifle and god sakes, if you are having a bad day at the range, pull out the trusty "junk" ammo and use that as your scape goat, LOL.

Dave, I wanna go shootin, got a .338AI all dolled up and it is itching to go shootin! DISCLAIMER: there will be no 1moa ammo fired through this weapon, oh I forgot, there aint none....

 

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stacey @ AINA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DISCLAIMER: there will be no 1moa ammo fired through this weapon, oh I forgot, there aint none.... </div></div>LOL Stacey!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your right it isn't rocket science, it's simple common sense. It has NOTHING to do with what the individual round being fired is capable of because every gun will shoot it differently. You can't say "this FGMM 168 is 1/2MOA ammo" because one rifle may shoot it 1/2MOA, another may shoot it 1/4MOA and another may shoot it 1MOA. If you get a combo that will shoot 1/4MOA it will shoot fucking 1/4MOA not 1/2MOA and if it does open up to 1/2MOA ITS THE SHOOTER. In other words if I put FGMM in my AI AE and it prints consistent 1/4MOA (which is does as long as I do everything right) then its a 1/4MOA combo. Why is this so damn hard to understand? You don't multiply what a rifle shoots with a certain type of ammo by 2. Thats dumber than wiping before you take a shit. Have the counter sniper and barska scope threads been fucking peoples heads up or something? </div></div>Not only did you hijack this Thread, then argue with and disrepect Lonewolf and others who clearly have more knowledge, skills, and abilities than you do, but now you also insist on being a Troll. Read again what you wrote: It's one thing not to have a clue. It's quite another to advertise it. </div></div>

Why don't YOU read again what I wrote and think long and hard about it. I don't see what is so fucking hard to understand. If your shoot a group at 100 yards and it measures around .25" guess what? YOU JUST SHOT A 1/4MOA GROUP, not a 1/2MOA. Unless your typing in some foreign language which I don't understand then your thinking makes no sense.

Two people agreed with me that are "in the know", one of which works for the very company of the rifles we're talking about.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

I'm done though, this is going absolutely nowhere and is just giving me a headache.

 

[bm11]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The purpose of using good ammunition is to eliminate as much as possible a key variable in the shooting process. I shoot good ammo because, unlike so much else in the 'game', finding it and using it is within my control. Better ammo reduces flyers and provides me with the consistency I need to work on other aspects of the process. Shooting at distance is difficult enough without worrying about whether what is happening downrange is the fault of the ammunitiTon.
</div></div>This sums up what I was trying to say, better than I said it.

 

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't YOU read again what I wrote and think long and hard about it. I don't see what is so fucking hard to understand. If your shoot a group at 100 yards and it measures around .25" guess what? YOU JUST SHOT A 1/4MOA GROUP, not a 1/2MOA. </div></div>You just changed the subject. That doesn't change what you posted.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two people agreed with me that are "in the know", one of which works for the very company of the rifles we're talking about. </div></div>You can, of course, do as you wish, but I make it a practice to not speak for others on the chance that I am wrong.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't YOU read again what I wrote and think long and hard about it. I don't see what is so fucking hard to understand. If your shoot a group at 100 yards and it measures around .25" guess what? YOU JUST SHOT A 1/4MOA GROUP, not a 1/2MOA. </div></div>You just changed the subject. That doesn't change what you posted.

</div></div>

Excuse me?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let me explain it again:

Assume a rifle that, if shooting 'perfect' ammo, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Assume ammo that, if fired in a 'perfect' rifle, can shoot 1/4 MOA. 1/4 MOA is the best it can do.
Put them together and the worst result will be a system that shoots 1/2 MOA, with the overall result a system that shoots between 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA.

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In sum, if my ammunition doesn't oushoot the rifle it is of no use to me because gun + rifle is a system. A 1 MOA rifle with 1 MOA ammo is not a 1 MOA system it's a (slightly less than) 2 MOA system.
</div></div>

I AM DONE.

 

[Graham]

Re: Accuracy International Kool-aid

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I AM DONE. </div></div>1 MOA plus 1 MOA does not equal 1 MOA.

Stay in school.