ACCURACY INTERNATIONAL USA CUSTOMER SERVICE

[marc.south1972]

i was having problem with my rifle and sent it back to the factory . they received it November 21st 2023. I sent emails they finally wrote back
and said they were testing my rifle the week of December 11th . I never hear anything and never received any return emails. Finally called them
and they said they fixed something on the stock but had no idea if it was tested yet. Again sent emails with no response has anyone else had
trouble with them? I 'm ready to ask for a refund and go buy a different brand of rifle . I'm sure the guys in England wouldn't be happy how there customers in the USA are being treated.

 

[0724/1030]

My experience with the service center has been largely positive. I’ve sent back 4 rifles for issues ranging minor to major. Each time communication was consistent and turnaround quicker than expected.

What issue were you having that necessitated the rifle being sent in for repair?

 

[ELCO82]

Is it possible they're slow getting back to you because of the holidays? Get your money back and go buy a Remington or a savage then.....

 

[CobraCharmer]

For what those things cost, it is quite reasonable to expect them to be a bit more detail oriented on the fixes and warranty front.

 

[hafejd30]

My experience with the service center has been largely positive. I’ve sent back 4 rifles for issues ranging minor to major. Each time communication was consistent and turnaround quicker than expected.

What issue were you having that necessitated the rifle being sent in for repair?

Just curious what your issues were?

 

[marc.south1972]

Just curious what your issues were?

i was having trouble with velocities , so i used three different chronographs . i called them and they said they wanted to see i was using only factory match ammo it was weird .

 

[CobraCharmer]

i was having trouble with velocities , so i used three different chronographs . i called them and they said they wanted to see i was using only factory match ammo it was weird .

How would fixing something in your stock affect bullet velocities? I hope there is an explanation for that.

 

[NoLegs24]

So you sent a rifle back because of weird velocity numbers? And possibly want a refund??

If anything, those 3 chrono’s confirmed that that ammo sucks

 

[marc.south1972]

How would fixing something in your stock affect bullet velocities? I hope there is an explanation for that.

I didn’t even tell them about the stock problem they found that I just heard back noting wrong with the rifle

 

[Bacarrat]

The answer is so vague. What velocities problems with factory ammo? You do know factory ammo, match or not has a huge variance. I don't shoot a lot of factory ammo in anything, but have chronoed them in the past and most of them are in the teens for SD and around 30+FPS for ES. That's normal. How did the gun shoot?

 

[TylerN]

At most i'd send in a barrel for evaluation. And a barrel would be the last thing I'd check with a 'velocity problem.'

Try calling back AINA and let them know your concern and see what they say or do... If you want your rifle back ASAP they might help you there.

 

[hafejd30]

It’s easy to see who worked there way up to an AI rifle

vs

Those who just started with one….

If this is a velocity issue with the barrel how was it determined to be a barrel issue vs ammo?

 

[diverdon]

Dose that ammo have more consistent velocity when shot from other rifles?

 

[marc.south1972]

Dose that ammo have more consistent velocity when shot from other rifles?

Same ammo has the SD of 8 out of my Christian arms MPR. Just got a relay from the company looks like the chronographs were garbage I’m getting a Garmin on Saturday

 

[hafejd30]

Same ammo has the SD of 8 out of my Christian arms MPR. Just got a relay from the company looks like the chronographs were garbage I’m getting a Garmin on Saturday

I’ll bet if you tested handloads against each other you can get both comparable

Just because one rifle (especially another brand) shoots a certain ammo well doesn’t mean another will do the same

 

[kthomas]

I’ll bet if you tested handloads against each other you can get both comparable

Just because one rifle (especially another brand) shoots a certain ammo well doesn’t mean another will do the same

And just because a specific gun shot that ammo with an SD of 8 on one day, doesn't mean it will average out to SD on a different day at the range.

 

[marc.south1972]

I’ll bet if you tested handloads against each other you can get both comparable

Just because one rifle (especially another brand) shoots a certain ammo well doesn’t mean another will do the same

I agree and I need to start reloading I have friends that are getting SD’s of 3

 

[kthomas]

I agree and I need to start reloading I have friends that are getting SD’s of 3

The SD's of 3 are probably over very low round counts, and not the actual SD of their reloads. I bet their reloads have an SD north of 6 if you shoot 30+ rounds over a chrono.

An SD of 8 or even 10 is not bad for factory ammo at all. Anything single digit is doing really well for factory ammo.

 

[b6graham]

Caldwell called...they want their optical POS chrono back before you slander their holy name too

 

[ma smith]

SD 10-11 is "normal range" for Berger Factory 140s, in just about any rifle
That'll hold ±1MOA of vertical at 1k yards.

 

[hafejd30]

I agree and I need to start reloading I have friends that are getting SD’s of 3

I’ll also add that many times the best groups on my chrono are rarely the best groups on target. I stopped even using one in my initial load testing

I let my target tell me about my barrel and particular bullet

The chrono and borescope stay in the gun room until I get a baseline that my barrel is worth load testing

 

[TheOE800]

SD 10-11 is "normal range" for Berger Factory 140s, in just about any rifle
That'll hold ±1MOA of vertical at 1k yards.

The gun matters too though. My semi shoots that Berger at >25fps SD whereas a gunsmith custom has SD closer to what you state.

 

[TylerN]

Novices... These guys can't even load 0.0 SD rounds.... This pic is clearly representative of everything I load up.

Now back to reality, anything single digit is good and will result in very low deviation at the distances we are likely shooting. And I'd be very happy with low double digit SD from factory ammo.

And OP, invest in a better chrono.

 

[marc.south1972]

Novices... These guys can't even load 0.0 SD rounds.... This pic is clearly representative of everything I load up.

Now back to reality, anything single digit is good and will result in very low deviation at the distances we are likely shooting. And I'd be very happy with low double digit SD from factory ammo.

And OP, invest in a better chrono.

View attachment 8325963

I have a magneto speed V3 there might be problems with it it was jumps 200 FPS this Saturday I’m getting the new Garmin so I will see how that works .

 

[TheOE800]

Novices... These guys can't even load 0.0 SD rounds.... This pic is clearly representative of everything I load up.

Now back to reality, anything single digit is good and will result in very low deviation at the distances we are likely shooting. And I'd be very happy with low double digit SD from factory ammo.

And OP, invest in a better chrono.

View attachment 8325963

Yeah but is that STDEV.P or STDEV.S? Big difference!

 

[Scott Seigmund]

Is it possible they're slow getting back to you because of the holidays? Get your money back and go buy a Remington or a savage then.....

Yes. This and the fact that we were between chronographs. I had given away a Lab Radar and had to wait on a new Garmin XERO to arrive. This took longer than we would like but we are always going to be thorough in checking a customer rifle. The velocities Tim provided are consistent for our test ammunition across a large sample of barrels. BTW, the cheek adjuster problem was something unrelated that Tim found while doing the acceptance inspection.

It's helpful to understand the realities of factory ammunition and the fact that they can't weigh charges as we do reloading. Below is a histogram of the charge weight variation in a lot of 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition loaded by a respected ammunition manufacturer for a Government end user. This ammo is supposed to be top shelf in performance and accuracy. The sample is 58 charges, so pretty high confidence level. Applying the +/-3SD rule you would expect to find 1.1 grains (yes, more than a full grain!) variation in the entire population. Interestingly, the histogram is asymmetric suggesting that at longer ranges you would expect to have a decent group center with two low shots for every high one (the flyers). I re-metered the charges to +/-0.02 grains (1/50th the original variation) and seated the original bullets in the cases. Fixing the charge variation made almost no difference in the velocity behavior of this ammo. In my next test I pulled sixty bullets and discarded the original propellant then recharged the cases with H4350, the classic 6.5CM load. The next round of tests with two barrels was dramatic with the ES falling to 20-22 fps and SDs of 6 and 7 respectively. The accuracy was also significantly improved.

We are in a period where the ammo manufacturers are struggling with supplies of critical components just as we reloaders are. Yet they are still producing pretty damn good ammo. If you are getting 100+ fps velocity variation, you may want to have a closer look at the ammo. Following that, it is reasonable to look at the equipment. Chronographs require testing just like everything else if you are to have confidence in the results. I've shot over four of the Garmin XERO chronographs now and the consistency between the units is exceptional, and thus far I have not experienced a single error with any of them.

Charge variation histogram

I will leave you a test group from the rechared 6.5CM. Original case, primer, and 140 HYB bullets. If you want the very best results you really do need to load your ammo and have some good tools.

-Scott

 

[hafejd30]

Yes. This and the fact that we were between chronographs. I had given away a Lab Radar and had to wait on a new Garmin XERO to arrive. This took longer than we would like but we are always going to be thorough in checking a customer rifle. The velocities Tim provided are consistent for out test ammunition across a large sample of barrels. BTW, the cheek adjuster problem was something unrelated that Tim found while doing the acceptance inspection.

It's helpful to understand the realities of factory ammunition and the fact that they can't weigh charges as we do reloading. Below is a histogram of the charge weight variation in a lot of 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition loaded by a respected ammunition manufacturer for a Government end user. This ammo is supposed to be top shelf in performance and accuracy. The sample is 58 charges, so pretty high confidence level. Applying the +/-3SD rule you would expect to find 1.1 grains (yes, more than a full grain!) variation in the entire population. Interestingly, the histogram is asymmetric suggesting that at longer ranges you would expect to have a decent group center with two low shots for every high one (the flyers). I re-metered the charges to +/-0.02 grains (1/50th the original variation) and seated the original bullets in the cases. Fixing the charge variation made almost no difference in the velocity behavior of this ammo. In my next test I pulled sixty bullets and discarded the original propellant then recharged the cases with H4350, the classic 6.5CM load. The next round of tests with two barrels was dramatic with the ES falling to 20-22 fps and SDs of 6 and 7 respectively. The accuracy was also significantly improved.

We are in a period where the ammo manufacturers are struggling with supplies of critical components just as we reloaders are. Yet they are still producing pretty damn good ammo. If you are getting 100+ fps velocity variation, you may want to have a closer look at the ammo. Following that, it is reasonable to look at the equipment. Chronographs require testing just like everything else if you are to have confidence in the results. I've shot over four of the Garmin XERO chronographs now and the consistency between the units is exceptional, and thus far I have not experienced a single error with any of them.

Charge variation histogram
View attachment 8326225

I will leave you a test group from the rechared 6.5CM. Original case, primer, and 140 HYB bullets. If you want the very best results you really do need to load your ammo and have some good tools.
View attachment 8326230

-Scott

Just a post like this should speak volumes to the OP as to how the service is

Watching and communicating directly to their customers here

Awesome!

 

[TheBigCountry]

dang man this is really pushing me to get a 6.5 barrel for the AT

I hate being a poor

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yeah you really can't expect factory match ammo to have great ES/SD's even if it does so in another rifle. Means nothing. I've also had wild lot to lot variations with Berger ammo and some lots that honestly kind of sucked even before covid and the supply issues. IMO it's not that great. Hornady is even more hit or miss, I've even had their bullets blow apart mid flight.

From my experience shooting a lot of factory ammo in a lot of different rifles if you get a combo that gives you ES's under 30 it's very good. ES's of 50 even from "good" ammo is pretty common sadly.

As has been said, if you want tight strings on a chrono load your own with some level of OCD and you'll get pretty spectacular results.

 

[marc.south1972]

Yes. This and the fact that we were between chronographs. I had given away a Lab Radar and had to wait on a new Garmin XERO to arrive. This took longer than we would like but we are always going to be thorough in checking a customer rifle. The velocities Tim provided are consistent for our test ammunition across a large sample of barrels. BTW, the cheek adjuster problem was something unrelated that Tim found while doing the acceptance inspection.

It's helpful to understand the realities of factory ammunition and the fact that they can't weigh charges as we do reloading. Below is a histogram of the charge weight variation in a lot of 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition loaded by a respected ammunition manufacturer for a Government end user. This ammo is supposed to be top shelf in performance and accuracy. The sample is 58 charges, so pretty high confidence level. Applying the +/-3SD rule you would expect to find 1.1 grains (yes, more than a full grain!) variation in the entire population. Interestingly, the histogram is asymmetric suggesting that at longer ranges you would expect to have a decent group center with two low shots for every high one (the flyers). I re-metered the charges to +/-0.02 grains (1/50th the original variation) and seated the original bullets in the cases. Fixing the charge variation made almost no difference in the velocity behavior of this ammo. In my next test I pulled sixty bullets and discarded the original propellant then recharged the cases with H4350, the classic 6.5CM load. The next round of tests with two barrels was dramatic with the ES falling to 20-22 fps and SDs of 6 and 7 respectively. The accuracy was also significantly improved.

We are in a period where the ammo manufacturers are struggling with supplies of critical components just as we reloaders are. Yet they are still producing pretty damn good ammo. If you are getting 100+ fps velocity variation, you may want to have a closer look at the ammo. Following that, it is reasonable to look at the equipment. Chronographs require testing just like everything else if you are to have confidence in the results. I've shot over four of the Garmin XERO chronographs now and the consistency between the units is exceptional, and thus far I have not experienced a single error with any of them.

Charge variation histogram
View attachment 8326225

I will leave you a test group from the rechared 6.5CM. Original case, primer, and 140 HYB bullets. If you want the very best results you really do need to load your ammo and have some good tools.
View attachment 8326230

-Scott

i have a Cobalt Kinetics SPR Elite in 6 arc i used the new Garmin XERO and put the speeds in my Kestrel and was hitting the 6" plate at 800
just about every time . so that tells me i'm getting good data

 

[marc.south1972]

the rifle is coming back today. They made it right . With the holidays and getting ready for shots show they were bogged down.

 

[schmi015]

@marc.south1972 if you're unhappy with your AI you can ship it to me, I'll pay for shipping and send you a remington 700 in return.

 

[marc.south1972]

@marc.south1972 if you're unhappy with your AI you can ship it to me, I'll pay for shipping and send your a remington 700 in return.

It came back I’m going to test it tomorrow I threw an Arken on there for testing I’m still trying to decide what to put on it

 

[schmi015]

It came back I’m going to test it tomorrow I threw an Arken on there for testing I’m still trying to decide what to put on it

Something German.... S&B.

 

[marc.south1972]

Hornady

Something German.... S&B.

Hornady match ammo 120 140 147 grain

 

[schmi015]

Hornady

Hornady match ammo 120 140 147 grain

Ahahahah words mean things: "It came back I’m going to test it tomorrow I threw an Arken on there for testing I’m still trying to decide what to put on it. "

I took that to mean the arken was temporary and was suggesting a schmidt and bender, not sellier and bellot. As for ammo to send through it maybe try some Berger 6.5mm Creedmoor 130gr Hybrid.

 

[marc.south1972]

I was thinking ammo I was looking at Night force NX8 I have had three of those

 

[Steel+Killer]

Same ammo has the SD of 8 out of my Christian arms MPR. Just got a relay from the company looks like the chronographs were garbage I’m getting a Garmin on Saturday

Trying to understand this So whatever chronograph/s you used to get your SD of 8 out of your Christian Arms MPR seemed to work correctly, but you used the same chronograph/s with your AI and because they returned unsatisfactory SDs and ESs they were garbage? Man I sure hope the Garmin gives you the results you are looking for.

 

[marc.south1972]

Trying to understand this So whatever chronograph/s you used to get your SD of 8 out of your Christian Arms MPR seemed to work correctly, but you used the same chronograph/s with your AI and because they returned unsatisfactory SDs and ESs they were garbage? Man I sure hope the Garmin gives you the results you are looking for.

at that time i didn't have a chronograph i shoot at a range that set up for Veterans i will post the link. They have open range day once a month they have 25 yards to 1,500 yards and this summer the one mile target will be up and running. They get tons of shooters that bring chronographs. we verified the data buy shooting out to 800 with the Christian arms i has hitting the 6 inch plate easily . please see the link below its a great please that helps wounded and disabled veterans.

https://savaw.org/

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You need to go to church and ask for forgiveness for putting an Arken on an AI.

 

[RedBreast21]

I’ll also add that many times the best groups on my chrono are rarely the best groups on target. I stopped even using one in my initial load testing

I let my target tell me about my barrel and particular bullet

The chrono and borescope stay in the gun room until I get a baseline that my barrel is worth load testing

Not to detract, and I understand that what you're saying can be true at closer distances in. But at say 800 (to pick a random distance) and beyond, what you're saying can't really be true, or if it is, something else is going on.

 

[hafejd30]

Not to detract, and I understand that what you're saying can be true at closer distances in. But at say 800 (to pick a random distance) and beyond, what you're saying can't really be true, or if it is, something else is going on.

Notice I said initial load test.

As in seeing if a particular bullet or bullet/powder/barrel combo is worth pursuing

If your initial load testing at 800+ then by all means bring the chrono

I typically test at 100 then 300. Or 300 then 5-600. Depending what my rifle will be used for. I can test 100 in my yard. Then drive about 10 minutes for anything 100-1000 yards.

In my yard if I’m trying a new combo I rarely will play with the chrono. To each their own method

 

[marc.south1972]

You need to go to church and ask for forgiveness for putting an Arken on an AI.

yes and i have no comeback but it is getting a night force soon. the Arken does suck especially lower light situations and past 400 yards . Anyone that says they are awesome probably never looked through a good scope.

 

[b6graham]

yes and i have no comeback but it is getting a night force soon. the Arken does suck especially lower light situations and past 400 yards . Anyone that says they are awesome probably never looked through a good scope.

Please please please don't say it's a 5-25

 

[marc.south1972]

Please please please don't say it's a 5-25

It is a 5-25

 

[xxflyingturtlexx]

Is this thread for real ?