Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

[kraythe]

I have a Remington 700 XCR Tactical Long Range in 308. I am interested in getting the rifle to shoot within a quarter inch at 100 yards. I am hoping I can get some advice on how to get it past the current block I have.

First of all, the rifle is equipped with a harris bipod, Butler creek sling, Karsten Kydex Adjustable cheek piece and a Burris Black Diamond 8-32 x 50 scope. We have adjusted the trigger to a sweet 2# pull and it breaks nicely.

With experimentation we have discovered we get the best group sizing cases to .001 under chamber size, setting the bullets to .002 off the lands and using 1.5 grains under max load for the Barnes match burner bullets. Also using BLC(2) Powder and Federal premium gold match primers.

To group the ammunition experiments we shot at 100 yards from bench rest with sandbags on front and back (took off the bipod for this) and using a rock stable rest. The tightest group we were able to get was 1". Although this is MOA accuracy, I would like to get the rifle to sub-moa accuracy.

Any suggestions on what I could do? I would rather not leave the gun with a gunsmith for 8 weeks (current lag time around here) so ideas that don't involve gunsmithing would be preferred. I would be willing to consider gunsmithing.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

 

[long range dogr]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

Are you 100% sure it's not the shooter? Not trying to be an asshole, just asking....

Did you try any other loads through the rifle?

 

[13F48L7]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

Get a sled and lock it in, then shoot some groups in order to eliminate the human error.

 

[redbullitt]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

If everything is tight on the rifle and the crown/barrel looks to be okay, I would focus on the loading first. There is no reason you can't get consistent groups under 1 moa.

How did you come up with your load? OCW, ladder, both? SD and Spread look okay?

Have you shot the dot drill? Much more entertaining that shooting groups.

 

[ghostdog]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

It might be a bridge too far to get .25MOA accuracy without sending it off to a good gunsmith. However if that is a no-go I would look into getting a McMillan or Manners stock. I'd also look into either getting a custom barrel like a Bartlein or a Krieger or at the very least getting your barrel cyrogenically treated. Maybe get a Jewell trigger or tune the one you have now. Even the top smiths have .5MOA or 3/8MOA guarantees vs .25MOA. Hope this helps.

 

[.308Shadow]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

I shot a 1ish inch 3 shot group today at 300 yards with my stock 700 Varmint with NightForce Rings/Base, and Osprey scope...

My 5 shot groups were sub MOA, and my 3 shots were also sub MOA.

The gun should be capable out of the box to shoot MOA or less..

I shoot 168 grain SMK's at 2.800" COAL, 43 grains Varget, next load will be 43.5.. Seems to be pretty good for me..

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kraythe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am interested in getting the rifle to shoot within a quarter inch at 100 yards.</div></div>

Send it to a good smith. Have them true the action and install a premium barrel.

Seriously. I am not trying to bust your balls, but it's a mid range factory rifle. You are asking for accuracy that just isn't the norm for a factory rifle.

That isn't to say that "occasionally" you don't get a ringer. But don't believe all the "internet groups" where guys tell you that their rifles shoot "quarter MOA" all day long "if they do their part".

If all these factory rifles were capable of 1/4 MOA, then why would you see us dropping thousands of dollars on the rifles we compete with?

Now your rifle should be easily capable of shooting five consecutive sub-1", five shot groups at 100 yards. All you need to do is buy a couple boxes of Black Hills 175gr Match or Federal 175gr Match.

However there is a HUGE difference between 1 MOA groups and 1/4 MOA groups. FLYERS COUNT.

 

[kraythe]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

Yes I am sure it isn't the shooter since there were two shooters doing similar results and the rifle was locked in quite tight with no possibility of variance due to cull sandbagging. Sure I could get a caldwell rest but its not really necessary since good old sandbags will do the job if set up right. Also some rounds were key holing others so we are quite sure the variance at that range is mostly the rifle/ammo combo.

We found the right length using an RCBS precision mic with careful measuring of the chamber and then loading 5 rounds per set with different variances in freebore and powder. We measured each powder charge with a digital scale to eliminate variances and then used the precision mic to check the exact freebore with the ogive of the bullet.

I have been wondering if I shouldn't ramp up the bullet weight, that is what I might try next.

As for the Dot drill, I don't know that one. We have been working on shooting skills for a while. Its always fun to load 10 snap caps in a row then slip in a live round. Makes you really concentrate on trigger pull and hold.

As for 1" group at 300 that is impressive. That is less than 1/3 moa accuracy and expert wind doping skills i suppose. I don't shoot that good but I can do pretty well.

 

[SSC]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

The idea of .25" moa out of a factory rifle is 1 in 10,000 if that good. They are out there but not many.


As to suggestions. Switch powder and switch bullets. Try every primer you can get.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

"Also some rounds were <span style="color: #CC0000">key holing </span>others so we are quite sure the variance at that range is mostly the rifle/ammo combo."

Key holing? Time to step back and review your load data.

OFG

 

[Temp9]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Also some rounds were <span style="color: #CC0000">key holing </span>others so we are quite sure the variance at that range is mostly the rifle/ammo combo."

Key holing? Time to step back and review your load data.

OFG

</div></div>

I think he meant the two shots were touching each other.

Kraythe, how did you do your load work up? You can measure everything down to .0001" and powder charges to .001gr, but if you haven't found a good, accurate load to begin with, it will never shoot to its potential.

Also, I have no idea what "cull sandbagging" is, but make sure you aren't smothering the gun. Let it recoil into your shoulder. Many of us here have found that completely locking down the gun, as the lead sleds do, will never yield good results on paper.

As others have said, you can't expect .25MOA out of a factory gun. More often than not, you shouldn't expect that out of custom guns, either. You should, however, be able to get sub-moa out that gun if everything is squared away.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

I hope that you are right.

OFG

 

[kraythe]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Also some rounds were <span style="color: #CC0000">key holing </span>others so we are quite sure the variance at that range is mostly the rifle/ammo combo."

Key holing? Time to step back and review your load data.

OFG

</div></div>
Yeah I mean stacking the shots right on each other, not a sideways bullet. Sorry wrong term.

 

[kraythe]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldfatguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Also some rounds were <span style="color: #CC0000">key holing </span>others so we are quite sure the variance at that range is mostly the rifle/ammo combo."

Key holing? Time to step back and review your load data.

OFG

</div></div>

I think he meant the two shots were touching each other.

Kraythe, how did you do your load work up? You can measure everything down to .0001" and powder charges to .001gr, but if you haven't found a good, accurate load to begin with, it will never shoot to its potential.

Also, I have no idea what "cull sandbagging" is, but make sure you aren't smothering the gun. Let it recoil into your shoulder. Many of us here have found that completely locking down the gun, as the lead sleds do, will never yield good results on paper.

As others have said, you can't expect .25MOA out of a factory gun. More often than not, you shouldn't expect that out of custom guns, either. You should, however, be able to get sub-moa out that gun if everything is squared away. </div></div>

You are right on the term. I meant stacking the shots on each other.

As for the sandbagging, I meant "Full Sandbagging" and what I mean by that is the rifle is entirely supported on both ends by sandbags, none on top fo the rifle. The stock is in my shoulder taking the recoil and the back sandbag is squishable so that I can adjust elevation with a squeeze of the bag.

As for the .25 moa, I know its a tall order. But I figure I should aim high. Also this is a factory gun but not the bottom or middle of the line. It is produced by remington with the expectation of being more accurate and therefore more expensive. If I can get the load and all items just right, I will settle for what it ends up at.

As for working up the load, I measured the chamber with a precision MIC and measured my fired brass with the same tool to get headspace and overall length and then created batches of 5 loads using various amounts of powder in permutations with various amounts of freebore. For 3 powder variants and 3 different amounts of freebore we had 9 loads.

I am wondering if I need to vary bullet weight. I was using 150gr Barnes match burners and i guess I might try varying the weight of the bullet, the kind of powder and so on. I am just wondering if there is something else I have missed.

I also thought about putting a suppressor on the rifle, especially for hunting since we arent wearing ear protection usually.

Thanks for all constructive advice.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The idea of .25" moa out of a factory rifle is 1 in 10,000 if that good. They are out there but not many.


As to suggestions. Switch powder and switch bullets. Try every primer you can get. </div></div>

I have one of those lucky enough. It is one of the oringinal 5r Mil-specs in .308 win. I run 42gr varget fed brass with CCI BR2 primers and 175 smk seated at 2.855 coal. I have shot 5 shot groups in under 3/16" I actually compete with this rifle in F class. My trigger is a timney which helped it out quite a bit.

Here are a few of the things I have done. I loosened up the action screws and tapped the gun on its butt stock a few times to get the lug seated well then tightened them back up with a torque wrench to spec. I used a good base.(mine is ken farrell) with good rings (Mine are B.O. rings.) I have shot with many different scopes at various price ranges. I have shot these groups with an Osprey, NF NXS, US optics, Leupold, and now a S&B. I like to try things out if you havent noticed. I got a 3" group with my schmidt and bender at 500 yrds with those hand loads. One thing I found was that a good trigger is key portion to a good shooting rifle. A well built rifle cant shoot consistent if the trigger is hard.

Hope this helps.

I am currently building 2 rifles were the action is trued with bartlein and mike rock barrels and I would be pleased if they shot as well as my factory 5r. It may be a rare chance to get another one that shoots this well but there are many of guys that will testify how well it shoots at our F class.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

Here is how I found my accurate load. I loaded up 5 rounds of each. I knew a lot of people had good luck with Varget powder and since I live in an area with large temperature changes I wanted something that wasnt tempermental and consistent. Varget was that powder. I started at the low end and worked the charge up in .5 gr increments. My first one was 42gr 42.5 43 43.5 44 44.5 45 45.5 I put dots on a box at 300 yrds with the powder charge below it. I found that 42 was a sweet spot and 45.8 as well. The groups you could see come together and go apart as load changed. Once I got close I would load below that charge and above it in .2gr incs. once I got the powder charge I experimented with primers and how far I jumped the bullet off the lands. That is how I was able to get my factory rifle to shoot well.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

Here was my way of measuring my chamber. Redneck I know but it was before I had friends with fancy equiptment. I took a prepped piece of brass and put a 175 gr smk in it and closed it in the rifle. I let the rifle seat the bullet. I did this with 3 rounds and took a mic and measured them all. took an avg and that is were I started seating my bullets. 2.855 that puts my bullet .015 off the lands and my gun seems to like that so I am not changing it.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

I would look at changing powder.
I have had good success with varget and RE 15.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

I run RE 15 in my .223 and I shoot 3/4moa very consistantly at 100yrds. i shoot 200yrd fun varmint matches with it.

I would try load data as fdkay stated before going to a smith.

 

[Temp9]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kraythe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You are right on the term. I meant stacking the shots on each other.

As for the sandbagging, I meant "Full Sandbagging" and what I mean by that is the rifle is entirely supported on both ends by sandbags, none on top fo the rifle. The stock is in my shoulder taking the recoil and the back sandbag is squishable so that I can adjust elevation with a squeeze of the bag.

As for the .25 moa, I know its a tall order. But I figure I should aim high. Also this is a factory gun but not the bottom or middle of the line. It is produced by remington with the expectation of being more accurate and therefore more expensive. If I can get the load and all items just right, I will settle for what it ends up at.

As for working up the load, I measured the chamber with a precision MIC and measured my fired brass with the same tool to get headspace and overall length and then created batches of 5 loads using various amounts of powder in permutations with various amounts of freebore. For 3 powder variants and 3 different amounts of freebore we had 9 loads.

I am wondering if I need to vary bullet weight. I was using 150gr Barnes match burners and i guess I might try varying the weight of the bullet, the kind of powder and so on. I am just wondering if there is something else I have missed.

I also thought about putting a suppressor on the rifle, especially for hunting since we arent wearing ear protection usually.

Thanks for all constructive advice. </div></div>

Check out OCW testing to find your charge weight. Also, you might want to check out 155gr or 168gr Sierra Match Kings. Remington's tend to have very long throats, and SMK's tend to be very tolerant of that. I also find it strange Remington would put a 1:12 twist on their "long range" .308.

 

[Quarter Horse]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

First check all of the fasteners on your scope and base. Then find someone with an inch pound torque wrench. Somebody here may post the correct torque settings for the action screws. If not, then call Remington and torque the action screws to the recommended setting. Take a Qtip and insert it in the muzzle end of the barrel and withdraw it around the circumference of the muzzle. This will not tell you if the muzzle is cut quare but it will tell you if there are any burrs. If I remember correctly, the XCR has a 40X trigger. Adjust the trigger for a clean break at your desired weight. Check the clearance between the barrel and forearm to make sure there is no contact. These items cover the easy things that don't require a 'smith.

Next buy a box of FGGM in 168 gr. and another in 175gr. This ammo is very consistent and will give you a good baseline on the accuacy of most rifles. This is not a dig at you or your friends, but if one of you can't shoot consistent .5" groups with your chosen rifle than find somebody that can with a tactical rifle. This will give you a reasonable chance to find out what the potential of the rifle is out of the box.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

I have a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in .308 Win that I have put in a Bell & Carlson Medalist A5 stock and glass bedded it. This rifle, with a 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest Z-Plex scope in Leupy STD bases and rings, has consistently shot between 0.5" and 0.75" groups at 100 yards and delivered a "best group" of 0.19" with my match hand loads (42.0 gr RL15, CCI BR2 primers, 168gr SMK bullets), which happen to be Sierra's accuracy loads from their Vth ed. manual.

A new Rem 700 XCR Tac Long Range should deliver consistent sub-MOA groups with FGMM or good hand loads. Since it comes with a B&C Medalist stock, the rifle may need bedding and barrel floating but should be consistent. A key is a good rest. I shoot with a Harris 6-9" swivel bipod and good rear bag...you may want to try that set-up.

Also, practice makes perfect...keep working, and,

Good luck,

FH

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Accurizing a Rem 700 XCR Tactical Long Range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kraythe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Any suggestions on what I could do? I would rather not leave the gun with a gunsmith for 8 weeks (current lag time around here) so ideas that don't involve gunsmithing would be preferred. I would be willing to consider gunsmithing.

Thanks for the advice in advance. </div></div>

Remove the rifle from the stock and examine the action for "rub marks" that would indicate that it's not properly bedded. If your stock has an aluminum action bedding block, consider following this gunsmiths's tip for bedding it:

Pillar Bedding of Aluminum Action Block equipped rifles

To have a sub 1/4 MOA rifle you have to start with a good foundation. This is work that most can do without the aid of a gunsmith provided they are good at following instructions.

I did this with my Rem 5-R Milspec and it is definitely a sub 1/4 MOA rifle now as long as I do my part.

If you do re-bed the action then your next step is to either do some incremental load development using the Audette "Ladder" or some work on OCW load development. No point though in searching for an unobtainable goal if you don't have the "foundation".

 

[REM700XCRLRT]

I know its an old thread but I just have to say that I have this same rifle with the Nightforce nxs 3.5x15x56mm and the velocity 1000lv.5 reticle. With federal 165gr Sierra game kings it will shoot sub moa groups all day long at 100yds and thats brand new out of the box without any mods or gunsmithing. I have already blown the brains out of a doe and a hog at 100yds with this round as well. My reticle is designed for a 200 yd zero and the groups at that range with 168gr federal smk aint nearly as good, they're probably 2-3 inches at best. I'll be going to the range tomorrow to test the federal 165gr sgk's out at 200yds to see how they perform at that range.