Rifle Scopes ACOG for precision rifle work...

bm11

bm11

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2010
2,562
13
41
Maine
#1
I'm thinking of setting my FN SCAR 16s up as a secondary precision rifle, for additional practice. Right now it has an EOTech 556 on it, which is great for speed, but I'm not that good without magnification (hell, I'm not that good period!) I haven't personally tested this rifle for accuracy, but the reviews I have read more often than not suggest sub-moa out of the box, which would be more than suitable for this application.

I'm thinking about mounting a 4x ACOG on it to keep it versatile, but haven't heard them mentioned much here for precision work. I know that they aren't really set up with turrets for doping for long range, rather they have a BDC reticle. Also, I don't believe they have a parralax (sp?) adjustment either. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the guys who have these on their M4's in the military engage at 600 meters effectively.

So, would an ACOG be an intelligent choice here, or would I be much better off with a 2.5-10 Nightforce or something to that effect?

Again, this is a secondary rifle (AIAW is primary) and would just to be to get me shooting it again. It has sat in the safe since I bought the AW.

Your thoughts on the proper optic for this project?

Thanks,

-BM
 
#2
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

Depends on how far out and how close you plan to shoot it and what kind of accuracy you want. You want to shoot it to 600 yards and hit a human torso sized target or an MOA sized target? Do you plan on shooting it in close like 5-10 yards?
 
#3
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

Well Rob, it is currently my "SHTF" gun as well, so it might be needed at some point for close range, but I'm not planning on selling the Holosight, unless I get an Acog with a Docter, and if I like the Docter.

I would like to be able to shoot MOA or better with it. Don't know how much 600 yard work it will see though, as my range only goes to 200 meters, and if I am traveling to shoot further, I'm probably bringing the AW, not the SCAR.

So I guess I will be looking for MOA accuracy inside 200 meters, but that probably will be my skill limiting it more than anything, as I personally tend to do better with higher magnification. I do plan on getting better though, ha ha!
 
#4
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

The other option I was considering was the 3x or 4x magnifier to mount behind the holosight. Seems like a 1moa dot would make it hard to get better than moa accuracy though.
 
#5
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I really like a variable on my AR. I have a S&B 1.1-4x on there now and will be putting the 1-8x on there when they come out. The 1.1-4x allows me to shoot from very close to 400 on a 12"x12" steel plate without a problem. When trying to get accuracy I usually use a 8" shoot n' c at 100 yards so it's easier to quarter.

I'd say look at a variable in your price range that will work for your target size and target range. You can sell the EOTech and off set some of the cost to get a good variable which will replace it.
 
#6
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

Yeah, something to consider for sure.

I guess I really like the compactness of the ACOG, and the ruggedness.

The Elcan Spectre is a pretty attractive option when I start considering variable power optics.
 
#7
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

ACOGs are very well made, durable with pretty clear glass. They are not exactly what I think of when someone wants "precision" accuracy.

Understand that the bullet drop compensator in ACOGs are "tuned" to a certain combination of bullet weight & type and velocity. Change any part of the equation and you might not have a compensator that is perfect for your application.

It sounds like you want a "do it all" rifle. I played around with ACOGs and other solutions and decided what worked better for me was a 1-4X power scope like the Meopta K-Dot or Nightforce, etc. These still to me are not perfect because at a CQB distance I am still much faster with an Aimpoint. You still get a little "I am looking through a tube" sensation on the low power of the 1X scopes that I don't get with an Aimpoint or EOTech.

All that said the 1-4X scopes I played with still are not what I would consider "precision" optics especially out to 200-yards.

I had some other rambling thoughts on the matter but am pressed for time. I'll try to post more later.
 
#8
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

The other option is a 2.5 or 3.5-10, keeping the holosight and switching back and forth depending on intended use.
 
#9
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I currently use a ACOG 3.5X mounted on the carry handle. I had to drill a new mounting hole further to the rear of the site for proper eye relief. For precision shooting at distance I would say no but for shooting steel or IPSC targets to 600 yards it works. I use irons out to 300 yards on steel then lift my head 3/4 of an inch or so and use the scope for longer range. I will be trying one of the Super Sniper 1-4X when they come out as a replacement.

The photo is five shots at 600 yards.

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#10
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I love my PMII 4-16 on my AW, but I don't see myself budgeting for another one right off. I have about ACOG money to spend, perhaps I'll bump up to an Elcan Specter though.
 
#11
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

the accupoint by trijicon in a 1.5x4 w/larue is a good combination if the tritium illumination is important to you.now with reticle choices.i have the triangle and can hit quick or precise limited only by my style/technicue(sp?).there is a used setup in the 4sale section.
 
#13
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

bm11,

The ACOG is not really intended as a precision optic, but it is an outstanding combat sight. ACOG's can easily be used to engage man sized targets out to 600 yards with an m4 type rifle. They are also extremely durable and simple. If you want one that is more versatile you might consider a TA31ECOS which has a Doctor red dot on top. I used both the TA31 and TA31RCO while on deployments and they never let me down even after considerable abuse. I currently have a TA31ECOS, the Doctor on top takes some getting used to but you could always take it off and put it on an offset mount. Overall I think the ACOG would be a very good choice but you should still try one out first if possible.
 
#14
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

The level of precision that one is able to achieve at a distance with an ACOG is a function one's ability to understand and fractionalize the reticle.

I have made a lot of hits out to 650 with a 16".

That said - there are better options.

An ACOG is a fantastic do it all pretty well, do no one thing great optic.

Good luck
 
#15
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I wasn't telling you you had to buy a S&B but just giving you an example of what works for me.
 
#17
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my PMII 4-16 on my AW, but I don't see myself budgeting for another one right off. I have about ACOG money to spend, perhaps I'll bump up to an Elcan Specter though. </div></div>

There was a test thread on these a while back. There was a shift between the 1 and the max power on the zero.
 
#19
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

bm11, I see that you hail from Maine, as such I don't see your potential normal engagememnt distances being too far out there. I have a 4X ACOG TAO 1 NSN on my 16" AR and can tell you that these old eyes can still get sub MOA with the ACOG, and having the luxury of the desert distances out this way... no problem to 600+ The below taken from Trijicon's web site.

ACF924D.jpg


I could not be happier with a fast handling and adaptable sight. They are great.
 
#20
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

Yeah, I'm still thinking about it. I know the distances to shoot here aren't normally that long, but I don't do too great with low magnification for "precision" work.

I'd really like to give one a try though.
 
#21
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I'm still thinking about it. I know the distances to shoot here aren't normally that long, but I don't do too great with low magnification for "precision" work.

I'd really like to give one a try though. </div></div>
you are not going to shoot sub moa groups at 300 yds with an acog. I know these to scopes are only similar in that they are low mag with lit reticule but I have a burris ar 322 that is a 3 power prism sight and I can shoot 1.5 inch groups at 100 yds around 3-4 at 200 yds and 6-8 inches at 300 yds certainly not precision shooting but good enough for the optics intended purpose . if you shoot with both eyes open you will be suprised at how fast you can get on target at close range . they call it the binden concept with trijicon optics . honestly I cant see attaching a small red dot sight to an acog for shooting closer than 25 yds . spend the money on ammo and practice. I wasnt sure I bought into the acog type sight and bought the burris just to see what I thought . I am saving my lunch money to buy me a ta 31f to put on my 20 inch ar.
 
#22
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

The ACOG is a great scope. I have 4 of them on various AR's. You can get 1 MOA accuracy at 100 yards if the rifle is capable but due to the low magnification I have never been able to do that past 100 yards with my SCAR that has a TA31RCOM4 on it. However a better shot than I might be able too. If your rifle will shoot sub MOA groups I would suggest a good quality variable of higher power.
 
#24
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I am leaning towards a NF 2.5-10. It seems like it would be more versatile than an ACOG.

Don't know what I would do about real close range though. Considering a LAM with a pressure switch. Might be a little too mall ninja though.
 
#25
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

No need for a LAM.

Wait a minute... we went from "precision shooting" to "close up engagements".

You want an optic that will allow you to "precision shoot" yet be able to use for close distances?

The closest you'll come is a variable magnified optic of at least 10x (powered up) and that Aimpoint T1 LT-724 mount. All you do is cant the rifle to engage with the Aimpoint for anything "close".

Look at the link I gave you above, click on "video presentation" and you have an idea of how it might work.
 
#29
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I have been through so many optics in the last year trying to find the best setup. I have used 4x ACOG's, multiple 1-4x's including Millett, Horus Talon, Nightforce NXS w/ FC-2, Trijicon TR24, and Burris XTR. I also have used both the Eotech and the Aimpoint with and without the FTS magnifiers. I finally settled on a TA33G-H 3x ACOG with an offset RMR dual illumination reflex sight. I love it for south Texas hog hunting as well as some competitions.
 
#30
#31
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I'm pretty sure I have figured out the right choice. I want this rifle to "do it all," which is where it gets tough, but I think I have an acceptable choice.

I think I am going to mount a NXS 2.5-10 on it, with a Docter in an offset mount for close work. I'm not worried about rules in a 3 gun match, I really just want this gun to do everything I want it to do. Which is everything.
 
#33
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

And then again, I changed my mind again, ha ha!

I have gun ADD sometimes. I was ready to pull the trigger on it, but I decided I have spent too on guns lately, especially on one I particularly enjoy shooting, so investing more in this one right now for what will mostly be a safe queen, is a little silly.

Furthermore, this is my dedicated home defense gun in a SHTF scenario, long rang engagements aren't probable, but close range is. I would be compromising the purpose of this firearm.

Solution- 3x or 4x magnifier with flip-to-side mount (gun already has an EOTech 556, which for me, is the IDEAL close range optic.)

Sorry to drag this thread around in circles, I was about 99% ready to pull the trigger on the NXS 2.5-10, but I had to step back for a second and make myself reasonable. By the time I bought the scope, the mount, and the aimpoint micro in the offset mount, I would have thrown another $2,000 at this gun, for really what would amount to compromising it's purpose. I moved myself back to reality.
 
#36
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our hobby gets expensive huh? lol </div></div>No joke. Been stockpiling ammo to the tune of $1000 so far this month.
 
#37
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

For a SHTF rifle when you already have a AW, I would say an ACOG with BAC is about perfect. With some practice, it will get almost as fast as a red dot up close, and past 200 yards, it will be better than a red dot.

I have 3 aimpoints, 2 ACOGs, and 2 Mark 4s, and each has its advantages and disadvantages. If I could only have one for SHTF do it all, it would be the ACOG (just get the right one). The BAC feature really works, and gets faster as you get used to it.
 
#38
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I thought I should add, I have a Dr Optics, and IMO it is a waste of money, and does not add any speed even at very close range. It takes more consious thought to rotate and refocus of the DR Optics, than just giving the BAC a few more milliseconds to focus.
 
#39
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

Amric, I'm like you in that BAC works extremely well for me as I have little phoria, but for some shooters the POI offset is simply too great for even trained compensation.
For these shooters, the RDS offers a viable alternative if they still wish to run an ACOG, although the majority of them would probably be better served by a low power variable/RDS combination.
I may even switch my Recon from it's TA11C to a USO SN-3 1.8-10 with offset RDS, because of the accuracy I get with the 16" Krieger barrel.
The best shooter I know has enough phoria that he doesn't use ACOGs in BAC mode, but you won't get that TA55 away from him with anything, he loves the low light performance.
 
#41
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define the rifles mission and tool it up accordingly.

</div></div>


I'll say it one more time.... </div></div>Haha, it was your post that made me come to my conclusion. This is my SHTF rifle, and in most imaginable SHTF situations, especially in Maine, engagements will happen at closer ranges, where the Holosight currently sitting on the gun will shine. I might get a magnifier with a flip to side mount to extend the range a bit, but it is set up pretty close to ideal for what I want right now.

If I knew trouble was coming to town, this would be the rifle I would grab and stick next to my bed.
 
#42
Re: ACOG for precision rifle work...

I've had Aimpoint M4s w/3xMagnifier, EOTech XPS 3-2 w/3xMagnifier, ACOG TA31DOC, and currently have the TA33G-H.

The Aimpoint/EOTech w/3xMagnifier are nice, but the magnifier just added too much weight for me and at the range, I was using mainly magnification, so I decided to go with the ACOG.

The TA31DOC was nice, but the ACOG had a POI shift at close range, which I didn't care for. The DOC sight on top didn't work for me either. First the Doc sight isn't good in low-light shooting because the reticle washes put and the sight is very small and the reticle can be hard to pick up at times from different positions.

The TA33G-H is my favorite. At close range, ther eis no POI shift like on the TA31. I was told that this was due to the smaller field of view on the TA33. The green horseshoe reticle is still capable of great accuracy out to 300 yards. I just lent mine to my neighbor who is leaving for Afghanistan. I'll definitely miss it, but he'll put it to better use.

I also had several 1x4/1x6 scopes, but none of them had all of the features that I wanted and didn't cost an arm and a leg. The new 1x8 scopes look great, but again, the prices on them are rediculous.
 
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