Rifle Scopes ACOG or 1-6.5 zoom for AR-10/7.62

[MMAJunkie]

I just bought my first AR10 in 7.62 and have been shopping for optics this week. It is a MATEN build with a Shilen 18" barrel. I mostly plan to shoot the rifle at the range at ranges between 25-50 yards for CQB practice and then 100-200 yards for paper targets and then I have steel plates at 200-300 yards.

I first assumed that an ACOG would be ideal but after looking at the 4x models I was surprised at how low the eye relief is. I have not handled the 3.5X models yet but am told they are much better. While looking at the local stores I found the Bushnell 1-6.5X tactical and really liked it but it is $1200. I also saw the Razor Gen II 1-6X HD which I also liked but it was $1500 locally. I looked online and see there are lots of 1-4, 1-6 and 1-8x power scopes such as Night Force, USO, Bushnell elite etc. Of course they are all 1500-2500 in some cases.

I was hoping to stay under $1500 if possible. My many question is what are the major advantages of an ACOG (be it a 3.5 or 4x etc) vs a standard small zoom scope such as these mentioned above?

My first thought is that I like the lighted reticle zoom (still not sure about FFP vs SFP) such as a 1-6 or 1-8 because I can turn it down to 1 and use it for true CQB shooting or home defense, then if needed for the range crank up the zoom to 4-6-8 to punch paper or steel at 200-300 yards. Plus

But since I have never used an ACOG other than looking through them at the store, maybe I am missing something. But I get the idea that a fixed 3.5 or 4X will be limited at close range.

Can some of you that have used both point me toward the pros and cons?

 

[Centuriator]

My .02, and as always, FWIW YMMV.

The ACOG is a *great* optic, no doubt. Sturdy. Rugged. Sharp as a tack. It is great for what it was designed to do: provide a very reliable optic for troops who are no trained to be precision rifle operators. The fixed magnification is just that: fixed. It gives you no ability to zoom in and expand the reticle for more accurate shooting.

I think you may find it limiting on a 7.62 platform.

Take a look at the Bushnell HDMR, I think you'll be far more satisfied with that kind of optic giving you a range of options at the ... um ... range.

If you have $1500 to spend, I think you might want to start with a zoom based optic.

 

[msat10]

I have the ACOG 3.5x and while its a very good scope and excellent eye relief for my 7.62 REPR, I find myself wanting more power. I hit targets to 500yds with it so far. I would not buy the ACOG 4x for a 7.62 due to eye relief. That's something to think about. The Bushnell G2DMR is one of the scopes I'm looking at, along with the Leupold 3-18x. Since I have not look through the Bushnell, not sure how good the glass is compared to the ACOG.

 

[Centuriator]

The Bushnell you are that you are thinking about is as clear and bright as an ACOG and has plenty of eye relief

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[catswithguns]

I have several ACOGs and they are all great optic devices. For me, the biggest disadvantage on all of them is that they have no diopter adjustment. To me, they are more of a battle implement than a precision aiming device. Just my .02 worth. Good luck.

 

[MadRoofer_DMI]

If you plan on cqb and some midrange shooting then if I was you I would look at an eotech setup with the g33 magnifier. The g33 with its STS (switch to side) mount has 3.25 magnification that when your in cqb just switch it to the side and just use the eotech then switch it back when you have mid range targets. It will run about $1000 for both.

 

[msat10]

That's good to know......

The Bushnell you are that you are thinking about is as clear and bright as an ACOG and has plenty of eye relief

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[SuckitTrebek]

Tell you what bro. Your about to drop alot of coin on things you have never used.

My advice would be to get someplace where guys have these sort of things. Check them out, shoot them if possible, and move on from there.

Also, for what your looking to do with it. An acog type of optic is more than enough. Though I'd be looking at the 2 and 3x models.

These cats think too much along the precision side of things around here,
when sometimes minute of man is all you need for a hit. NOT a 1moa headshot.

 

[Centuriator]

These cats think too much along the precision side of things around here,
when sometimes minute of man is all you need for a hit. NOT a 1moa headshot.

True, but it is, well, you know ... Sniper Hide, etc.



I think he is going to be pretty darn frustrated with any kind of fixed focal length optic with a 7.62 weapon system

But the best advice is that he should make a point of at least trying different optics.

 

[PSYOPS]

Bushnell scopes have really peaked my interest lately.

Give the Bushy line a good look.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

True, but it is, well, you know ... Sniper Hide, etc.



I think he is going to be pretty darn frustrated with any kind of fixed focal length optic with a 7.62 weapon system

But the best advice is that he should make a point of at least trying different optics.

This is snipers hide. And more need to keep in mind that every system discussed here is not used for a "sniper" application.

Despite the caliber, the uses and ranges that his system will be used at are the same. Whether he wants to use a 5.56 or 7.62


Why would a fixed optic not be good for a 7.62 system? Seems to get the job done on an ak47 variant plenty good.

I have an eotech sitting on my arsenal ak47 right now. And it's sweet as hell. There is no practical need for a variable optic at those ranges, for those uses.

A smart guy knows what he is shooting and can make adjustments without fiddling with turrets. When at those ranges at the very least.

 

[Centuriator]

This is snipers hide. And more need to keep in mind that every system discussed here is not used for a "sniper" application.

Huh? Respectfully, just seems a bit silly to criticize a forum called "Sniper's Hide" by thinking "precision" when addressing optic questions.

Whether he wants to use a 5.56 or 7.62There is no practical need for a variable optic

Sorry I don't get that remark.

 

[m1ajunkie]

For the type shooting you describe, I would go with a variable optic hands down. I bought my TA31F acog several years back when the 1-4, 1-6x optics choices were basically zero and at the time it was a great optic. However now we have many more solid variable power optics choices that make me wonder why folks would not run a variable.

My acog is currently on a colt 6920 that I use from cqb distances out to 300ish yards and I am currently deciding on what variable power optic will replace my acog. Right now I am leaning toward the leupold mk6 1-6.

 

[Ranger413]

I'm running a SWFA 1-6x on my SCAR17 (308). I couldn't be happier. The true 1x is great for two eyes open close range work. At 6x the mil-based reticle shines for working precision out to 500 yards. These can be had for about $1000. I have mine in a Bobro mount.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Huh? Respectfully, just seems a bit silly to criticize a forum called "Sniper's Hide" by thinking "precision" when addressing optic questions.



Sorry I don't get that remark.

Don't be a tool. Every application discussed on this forum is not a "sniper" application.
And yes I'm saying that absolute precision is not needed in every application.

Ever shot someone? If so then you know that it doesn't take 1 moa to put a man down.


And secondly. yes it doesn't matter what caliber he is using for this purpose. 7.62, 5.56. or whatever else. The application is still the same!!

 

[1time]

What do you think a fixed optic provides that a variable cannot?

 

[msat10]

A fixed optic is less complicated and will have less to go wrong with it...

What do you think a fixed optic provides that a variable cannot?

 

[lclement]

If I had $1500 to drop on an optic I would look at the Vortex razor hd 1-6. Should be good for cqb, 3 gun, and anything to 400 yards and closer. Acog are nice but I would prefer variable magnification... Look at the Vcog. I think it's around $2000.

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[yetigoode2]

I'd go with a Leupold MK 4 3.5-10. Very happy with my set up and it'll get you out to a grand.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I have a Bushnell 1-6.5X24 SFP (BTR2 Reticle)#ET1624SJ mounted on a Sig 516 16" 5.56. The glass is very nice. I got the SFP model because if I'm going to shoot anything over 100 yards, I'm going to go up to 6.5 power and I'll use the MIL reticle for holdovers and the reticle is easy to see at 1X. It would do well on a 7.62 medium range rifle. It is costly, as much as a first generation G2DMR / HDMR. You have to decide what the use of your rifle will be.

I also own two first gen. G2DMR's, they are great scopes.

Take a look through one before you buy.

 

[lclement]

The other thing you could do if you can't decide is to try and cheaper 1-4 Vortex pst or swfa... Try one if you like the idea, sell it then get a higher quality... That's what I think I'm going to do.

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[Bad Dad]

How bout a Sightron 1-7×24 SIII ? don't know much about it myself but I'm in the same market as you scopewise.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I HIGHLY recommend the Bushnell SMRS 1-6.5x24 with their BTR-2 reticle (much better for using hold-overs versus the BTR-1 reticle). I chose the SFP version because on 1x, the reticle looks very similar to an EoTech reticle, vs a small dot like the aimpoint. I have read that the illumination on the FFP model isn't as bright as the SFP model, so keep that in mind too. If I need to use higher magnification, I go straight to 6.5x so there is no need for FFP for me (like what FLIGHT762 mentioned above). At 1x, it seems to be true 1x, and doing both eyes open shooting at close range is very effective and pretty much as fast as an EoTech or Aimpoint.

Mine is mounted on my SCAR-17. I took it out and zeroed it today and was extremely impressed with it. I sold my NF 1-4x24 to buy it because I wanted more magnification. It was a good decision. The glass is much brighter and more crisp than my Nightforce was. I'm kind of thinking about getting another for my yote slayer. I ended up getting a 15% off coupon in my inbox for optics planet, so I got the optic out the door with 2 day air shipping for $1060.

 

[1time]

A fixed optic is less complicated and will have less to go wrong with it...

If you use them as hammers the ACOG may last longer. For home defense, range use or chucking them into barrels in 3gun comps a decent variable scope is plenty reliable. I think the usefulness difference far exceeds the reliability difference. A 1-6 vortex is faster than a 3 or 4x ACOG on 1x and more precise on 6x.

If you are looking in the $1500 range I like the Vortex 1-6 best. If you shop around you can find them cheaper than that. The eye box is huge and the illumination is daylight visible. The glass is crystal clear.

If minute of man or ultra reliable is what you want iron sights work really well.

 

[yupitsnuge]

I just went through this exact same thing for my REPR. It honestly depends on your type of shooting. There are some guys who want to put a bullet in a bullet on paper and then there are others who are hitting steel and a hit is a hit. I took a "heavy carbine" class out in TX a month ago and we were shooting out to 800 yards on steel. I found a really good deal on an ACOG TA11E and went with it. I got there and most guys were running variable scopes up to 20x. I was quickly worried I was under gunned but I couldn't have been more wrong! I was not only spotting for myself at 700 yards, I was also spotting for everyone else that was shooting out there. I absolutely loved that optic for that gun. The issues I had was that there are no windage marks and the bullet drop was not accurate for the ammo I was using (I have since heard that these are used for machine guns and not meant for a bolt or semi) and also at dusk the reticle was hard to see.The eye relief was not a problem. If you have any other questions, let me know, ill try to be of assistance. Here is a cool shot at 625 yards through my scope…

625yrds through a 3.5x TA11E ACOG atop my REPR [1836x2448] - Imgur

 

[SuckitTrebek]

A fixed optic is less complicated and will have less to go wrong with it...

Exactly, there is a reason that the most reliable optics are not variable.

Now I'll catch some flak for that statement. But you can take any optic from any company, and if they have any fixed
variable optics which is always more reliable? yep.

I have a 4x acog on one of my AR's right now. Paid 600 bucks for it new. Damn hard to beat that.


You know what would be great. The only way to settle this little debate is some sort of competition. I love smoking guys with equipment
that costs half as much as theirs.

 

[1time]

Exactly, there is a reason that the most reliable optics are not variable.

Now I'll catch some flak for that statement. But you can take any optic from any company, and if they have any fixed
variable optics which is always more reliable? yep.

I have a 4x acog on one of my AR's right now. Paid 600 bucks for it new. Damn hard to beat that.


You know what would be great. The only way to settle this little debate is some sort of competition. I love smoking guys with equipment
that costs half as much as theirs.

Some people do shoot competitions and have vetted gear. ACOG's are nice but there are more usable scopes on the market for the same or less money. Go shoot a large 3gun match and see how far your ACOG gets you.

 

[Shoottothrill]

SWFA 1-6 tough to beat.

 

[WaveNature]

IMO, the one thing that an acog does better than anything else is reticle illumination. A variable optic wins in every other regard (especially if it's ffp).