So here's the deal. I think the SCAR and ACR look cool and would like to get one someday. I have zero experience with either so I am looking for words of wisdom from those who have used them. Yes, I know they are expensive. Yes, I'm sure there are some piston ARs that would do the same thing. No, I dont want one. Thanks for your thoughts.
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ACR or SCAR
- Thread starter mercracing
- Start date
While google is your friend here, and there are literally hundreds of discussions on this very matter, i too would like to hear what the folks here have to say.
Thanks for the vote elfster. Already googled. Read a few pages of speculation. Hoping to find some firsthand knowledge.
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+1 on the SCAR. But be aware the triggers are not any better than some or the lower priced AR's. At least on mine, it was very gritty.
Own both, SCAR wins, but not by much. SCAR is really anal about mags, as in you can use your M2 Magpul, but they take some modifications to get to work, the M3's work great though. Metal, just fine.
ACR? It doesn't care on mags. Cleaning? ACR wins, how the barrel comes out is awesome. On weight, SCAR wins, for balance. For folding stock not being garbage, ACR wins. For locking the stock in place when folded SCAR wins. On barrel twist SCAR wins, unless they have 1/7 in the ACR now but I don't think they do. On speedy barrel changes, ACR.
So why do I like the SCAR the most? Mostly barrel twist and how wonderfully balanced it is when you have an optic/light combo.
I should also add, when I have friends/family who are/were employed to kill bad guys, try both weapons out, they really enjoy the SCAR over the ACR. When we get back home, and I clean then suddenly the ACR gets a lot of attention.
ACR? It doesn't care on mags. Cleaning? ACR wins, how the barrel comes out is awesome. On weight, SCAR wins, for balance. For folding stock not being garbage, ACR wins. For locking the stock in place when folded SCAR wins. On barrel twist SCAR wins, unless they have 1/7 in the ACR now but I don't think they do. On speedy barrel changes, ACR.
So why do I like the SCAR the most? Mostly barrel twist and how wonderfully balanced it is when you have an optic/light combo.
I should also add, when I have friends/family who are/were employed to kill bad guys, try both weapons out, they really enjoy the SCAR over the ACR. When we get back home, and I clean then suddenly the ACR gets a lot of attention.
I have yet to shoot the ACR but do own a SCAR 16 and love it. I think the overall design and construction are great, the trigger in mine seems clean but a bit heavy. The balance seems great and the thing shoots really great for a field gun. I generally am really happy with the gun and all of its features, although it is a little bit hard to clean all the nooks and crannies.
Every time I have cleaned my SCAR17 I am always impressed by the lack of cleaning that I need to do. I wipe down all the internals including the bolt and BC and all its parts and I am always impressed by how clean the rags are after. My DI AR's take 3x the amount of time to clean and 3x the amount of rags and Q-tips. I dont take the barrel off my SCAR to clean it but I have taken the barrel off my LMT MWS while cleaning so I can appreciate the benefit of a easily removable barrel. With a good wrench and torque wrench the SCAR barrel should be relatively easy to remove and re-install.
Other than the more simple barrel removal of the ACR is their any other cleaning benifit to it over the SCAR?
I have never shot a ACR but my SCAR17 is one of my favorite guns. I installed a custom trigger but my factory trigger was reasonable as well.
I dont know about the SCAR16 Metal mags but the SCAR17 mags have more room in them for longer loaded bullets if you hand load compared to the Pmags I use in my large frame AR's.
My only reservation about the SCAR is the lack of companies supporting the aftermarket parts community for the SCAR (other than Hi-Desert Dog as they NEVER reply to any of my SCAR requests).
+ for the SCAR
Oh I do not mean to come across argumentative at all, I do not think cleaning my SCAR is horrible mind you, just when it comes to cleaning the barrel the ACR is really handy. It just ratchets off and presto not as big of a thing to clean. It is just a nice thing for cleaning, I mean the BCG's are really identical, REALLY identical in fact.
So, I don't know if I would say it is a huge difference, but as far as getting into the chamber/feed ramps you can really hit them with a toothbrush and solvent when the barrel is out.
The ACR is the same as the SCAR too, other than Geissle triggers, dunno, pick up the phone to Bushmaster/FN and wait.
I agree with you on total package, + for the SCAR
So, I don't know if I would say it is a huge difference, but as far as getting into the chamber/feed ramps you can really hit them with a toothbrush and solvent when the barrel is out.
The ACR is the same as the SCAR too, other than Geissle triggers, dunno, pick up the phone to Bushmaster/FN and wait.
I agree with you on total package, + for the SCAR
My intentions were for fact finding. I wasnt challenging what you said. Just simply curious. Correct me if I am wrong but the scar just has 2 bolts holding the barrel in? The other bolts hold the rails to the upper? I may have to take it apart to see if FNH design is as good as LMT's as that is my only reference for quick barrel removal. I have a craftsman torque wrench that I purchased for my LMT MWS. So reinstallation shouldnt be to bad. How about torque specs on the SCAR barrel? I have the manual stored in storage with the original box.
I made a quick video of just changing the barrel on the ACR, without all the yak yak yak that a lot of the videos have.
Sorry for the sniffing, my allergies have been pretty brutal as of late.
Bushmaster ACR Barrel Removal - YouTube
Sorry for the sniffing, my allergies have been pretty brutal as of late.
Bushmaster ACR Barrel Removal - YouTube
Scar for sure.
Pick up the acr and ratchet the barrel down then see how much wiggle it still has in it. Scar is lighter and I like the sights on the scar much better then the magpul on the acr
Pick up the acr and ratchet the barrel down then see how much wiggle it still has in it. Scar is lighter and I like the sights on the scar much better then the magpul on the acr
Out of curiosity do you strictly shoot 70 grain and higher ? I see this barrel argument day and night on forums when 99.9999999999999% of the time the gun never sees anything besides 55 and 62 gr ammo, which the 1:9 twist is fine with, and generally May even be superior with. Not to mention multiple accuracy tests have been done with the Acr using 75 and 77 grain ammo which still shot moa or better, proving the barrel has no issue stabilizing the heavier rounds.
I've owned them both and I've sold both of the plastic toy guns to go back with standard ar platforms. They were both neat, lack any real upgrades other than furniture and appearance, have very few parts that aren't proprietary, and shoot very well. I thought the scar felt very cheap but on the upside, very light. I thought the acr was a well built gun with great features, but the barrels still haven't showed up from bushmaster, and other than a neat battle rifle/toy, I just figured I'd have more fun with ar platforms.
How many acrs have you owned? I've had two, neither had any play whatsoever. Should I assume your scar receiver cracked because some people reported that and I just like regurgitating incorrect info read on the internet ? Or just report my own factual experience which is they are both great guns?
The vltor kits are awesome and make the gun look bad ass, and I ran an aluminum Pmag lower since I had a ton of pmags already.
Attachments
The SCAR has 6 torx screws holding the barrel in. Military Arms Channel has several ACR vs SCAR videos; one of which compares the POI shift after barrel removal. The SCAR had none and the ACR has a small shift.
I have the 16s and the 17s. The triggers are OK but the Geisselle triggers are an awesome upgrade. The 17s is one my favorite rifles. It is the Cadillac of battle rifles with felt recoil almost as soft as an AR-15. I have fired 20 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger and the bolt was cold enough to touch with bare fingers. Cleaning is super easy with the short-stroke piston system.
My only gripe was the availability of the 17s magazines when I first bought the rifle. This has become less apparent with more and more magazines becoming available, including polymer aftermarket ones.
If you run an EOTECH or similar optic, I would recommend the after market angled charging handle. It gives me extra clearance from the optic and I don’t bang my knuckles on it.
The back blast from the muzzle brake is VERY strong on the 17s. The shooter does not feel that much, but if you are standing beside a SCAR 17s shooter it will ring your bell. This is one of the reasons why the 17s is so comfortable to shoot with no recoil; the muzzle brake is very effective. The 16s is so small on recoil, it feels like a 22lr.
In the end it all comes to personal preference. The one consistent criticism I hear on the SCAR is the reciprocating charging handle. It makes no difference to me because it does not interfere with the way I hold the rifle. I would strongly recommend the SCAR to anyone who has the $$$ for one.
I had a nice cut on my thumb for a week from holding the scar like I hold ARs or the ACR in CQ drills... learned my lesson until the next time I went to shoot it and did it again... Doh! Quite painful and embarrassing when you're bleeding all over the range!
My serious ammo is Hornady 75gr, but what I practice with almost always is 62gr.
I agree on it not being the better than AR platform, but they are very neat firearms in their own way, I use the SCAR as my primary defense weapon, BCM for other things. ACR sits in the safe till people come and want to try it, I don't mind it, just to be frank, I want other barrels for it and they are not to be found. I would love an 18" barrel that is 1:8 for this rifle, as when it folds it fits in a smaller box nicely for transport.
I enjoy a lot of different kinds of firearms, as someone else pointed out, the handle on the SCAR lets you know it is there when firing, that is why I have the grip up front. Now, having used this grip this way, I burn my finger when I hold AK's as well as my thumb blocks the sights, so I grab, move thumb, then shit finger fire fire move ok.
That part of the SCAR is annoying but I could fix it with an extended rail.
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My experience is just from having held both ACR and Scar 16 & 17 but only shot a Scar 17. I'd pick the ACR. Yes, the Scar has the "used be the military" credibility, but it just didn't impress me. For that price, I want more than a piston AR with a side charging handle. If it were my money, I'd get the ACR based on better ergonomics. Ambi everything and especially the bolt hold open/release being right at your fingertips is perfect.
I have a Scar 17s and it's one of my favorite rifles. It's a great shooter, light weight for what it is and easy to clean. Not to mention it looks cool! Couple issues which were easily addressed. One was the trigger and the other was the availability of magazines. I replaced the trigger with a Geissele Super Scar trigger which is similar to the SSA-E on my AR's. I also replaced the lower with a billet lower by Handl Defense. The Handl Defense lower lets me run Pmag 7.62 mags which I already had dozens of and also the Magpul MIAD grip. The Scar has shot flawlessly both before and after the lower swap. Highly recommended!
Felix, I have owned 3 of them total. All three I could move the barrel around with my hand. Since the front sight is attached to the top rail, I lost confidence in accuracy and picked the SCAR due to factors i mentioned above. Sure, the ACR has its fans as well. I am sharing my personal experience with the rifle. I wanted to like the ACR so badly ever since it was the masada. It had so much potential, but in my opinion, I dont like what bushmaster did when they took over.
The SCAR has its down sides also. I wish FN made a non reciprocating charging handle. I did like how the front sight was attached to the gas block which is attached to the barrel.
The SCAR has its down sides also. I wish FN made a non reciprocating charging handle. I did like how the front sight was attached to the gas block which is attached to the barrel.
Both excellent guns. However most of the people chiming in have not shot both. All due respect. And while the SCAR is lighter I really prefer the ACR, so much so that I purchased several. It's heavier but it has almost zero recoil and followup shots are a breeze. It's really super accurate and you have aftermarket trigger options. Easy to clean and does not foul easily. Seriously, it's a quality piece of robust equipment.
Found the ACR so easy to drive I sold the SCAR. I know the ACR is not run by Navy Seals and Rangers or whatever and perhaps thats part of the draw to the SCAR?
Shot both, own the ACR. Couple things I didn't like about the scar:
-replicating charging handle. (Imagine my surprise the first time I caught my thumb!).
-Not fond of the buttstock assembly.
-Not a fan of pencil thin profile barrels. (where the Scar makes up for its weight over ACR)
-I don't know how to describe it but has a weird impulse after pulling the trigger.
-90% of my Mags would not work without a complete lower replacement.
Things I didn't like about the ACR.
-Its made by bushmaster and not Remington (luckly its only marked BFI on the side)
-Virtually ZERO aftermaket support. (several basement part makers are around if you know where too look.)
-Where the hell are my replacement barrels!? (Most frustrating part.)
-Not fond of Government profile barrel (And the biggest reason why the ACR is heavier then Scar and also a bit front heavy)
-Not a 1/2 MOA gun (.. yea i know ^_^)
-Plastic BOIS. (Don't really care for Iron sights on short rifles anyways.)
What I like about the ACR that made me decide it over a Scar.
-USA made
-Better overall adjustable buttstock.
-Better factory trigger (mine has since been upgraded to a Gissele)
-Longer handguard and smoother design (non-quad)
-All my mags work.
-was decently accurate with my 55gr Handloads (more so then the Scar I tested)
-Completely Tooless stripping
-Way better charging handle design.
-Just plain fun to shoot.
Now since the US army Carbine competition is done with, we'll hopefully see Remington get behind the ACR a bit and see some aftermarket flow. 75gr is either hit or miss because of the 1:9 Twist, but I save that ammo specifically for 3gun purpose built rifles. If i'm gonna spend that type of money on high quality ammo, I want as much accuracy out of it as I can get and the Scar or ACR are not it.
-replicating charging handle. (Imagine my surprise the first time I caught my thumb!).
-Not fond of the buttstock assembly.
-Not a fan of pencil thin profile barrels. (where the Scar makes up for its weight over ACR)
-I don't know how to describe it but has a weird impulse after pulling the trigger.
-90% of my Mags would not work without a complete lower replacement.
Things I didn't like about the ACR.
-Its made by bushmaster and not Remington (luckly its only marked BFI on the side)
-Virtually ZERO aftermaket support. (several basement part makers are around if you know where too look.)
-Where the hell are my replacement barrels!? (Most frustrating part.)
-Not fond of Government profile barrel (And the biggest reason why the ACR is heavier then Scar and also a bit front heavy)
-Not a 1/2 MOA gun (.. yea i know ^_^)
-Plastic BOIS. (Don't really care for Iron sights on short rifles anyways.)
What I like about the ACR that made me decide it over a Scar.
-USA made
-Better overall adjustable buttstock.
-Better factory trigger (mine has since been upgraded to a Gissele)
-Longer handguard and smoother design (non-quad)
-All my mags work.
-was decently accurate with my 55gr Handloads (more so then the Scar I tested)
-Completely Tooless stripping
-Way better charging handle design.
-Just plain fun to shoot.
Now since the US army Carbine competition is done with, we'll hopefully see Remington get behind the ACR a bit and see some aftermarket flow. 75gr is either hit or miss because of the 1:9 Twist, but I save that ammo specifically for 3gun purpose built rifles. If i'm gonna spend that type of money on high quality ammo, I want as much accuracy out of it as I can get and the Scar or ACR are not it.
If I had to choose between the two right now which one I would take into battle, I would take the SCAR 17. For a 5.56 RDS carbine, I still prefer the AR.
Tactical Arms - Scar H Part 1/2 - YouTube
SCAR 17 at long range - YouTube
Tactical Arms - Scar H Part 1/2 - YouTube
SCAR 17 at long range - YouTube
The 308 is what intrigues me with the Scar. I could care less about the 6.8acr or 556 versions of either. I want that 308 wrecking ball.
May have just lined one up too at an insanely smoking deal.
Heres the mod from GG&G i mentioned above.
SCAR Non-Reciprocating Charging Mechanism
May have just lined one up too at an insanely smoking deal.
Heres the mod from GG&G i mentioned above.
SCAR Non-Reciprocating Charging Mechanism
Other then holding one at my local shop I have no experience with either. However. My brother in law just got back from Afghanistan and he said you wouldn't believe how bad the special forces guys bash the scar.. He said they break all the time and can't handle the recoil..
don't see any advantages comparing to HK 416 or 417
only folding stock
ACR or SCAR - I think SCAR
ACR has a homework to do
only folding stock
ACR or SCAR - I think SCAR
ACR has a homework to do
All the feedback I've heard about the SCAR 17 has been positive. The only problem area I'm aware of is that the hinge pin on the folding stock can be broken fairly easy. The TangoDown SCAR Aluminum Stock Latch will eliminate that.
Care to elaborate on the "breaking"? I have seen reports from the field about the SCAR and a common issue is the plastic stock latch breaking. I havn't seen anything documenting the rifle breaking, (as in it won't fire). As for the "can't handle the recoil" I assume you are talking about the Mk17. The military versions have a three prong flash hider and not the awesome muzzle break the 17s comes with. It is still light handling for a battle rifle. The short-stroke piston design is very solid and I have not had a single issue with my SCAR 16s or 17s with 1000s of rounds fired in 3-gun competition and genneral target shooting. I can't think of any military rifle that has not had some small problems arise after initial fielding. All of the problems with the SCAR are minor and can be fixed. The plastic stock latch can be replaced with an alluminum piece that wont break as easily.
It may be the plastic stock latch u mentioned. I'm not sure. I wasn't there. I just thought it was worth forwarding the info so anyone who is considering one can do there own research. A lot of times on shooting forums you will get reviews on products people spent several grand on and they feel it's the best because it's what they have. I dont see why these Special forces would have reason to lie. I'll ask if he knows more specifically what the issues were.
+1 on the SCAR. Owned an ACR as well liked how it how shot but didnt have the support for it like the SCAR does (as minimal as it is). And with HDD making multi-cal barrels etc. The benefits and Adaptiveness of the A in ACR (and Bushmaster/Remingtons lack of support) the SCAR to me is a complete package. Now i have several SCARs including (3) SCAR 16s including an SBR and a SCAR 17. I also still own several AR's, and plan on buying more in the future.
S/F
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I picked up a SCAR17S yesterday. I own competing brands of 762 and 556 rifles, my user name will assist you in determining at least one of them.
I have not shot the rifle yet, just tore it apart to clean it up after purchasing NIB.
Here are my observations:
Most of these criticisms are based on it being the better part of 3 grand and directly comparing it to other rifles.
Positives:
Very light and feels well balanced
Stock is capable of folding and locking in place
Comes with Iron sights that actually function and fold
Piston operated so it should stay pretty clean
Pretty much fully ambi
Adjustable cheek weld on stock
Comes with a 20 round magazine
7.62 mm
Negatives:
You have to run a cleaning rod through the receiver to get the gas piston out
Gas piston isn't completely chromed
Reciprocating charging handle
Grip is absolute bottom drawer AR15 LPK
Safety selctor is poorly placed and smallish making it hard to operate
Polymer feels "cheap" -Completely subjective
Parts finishes aren't all a consistent color or hue
The stock feels especially cheap and I predict the lock will break
For the money they could give you more than a cheap-ass cardboard box
Trigger is not great, but I can make any trigger work. - Compared to HK MR series it sucks real bad
Magazines are proprietary, I don't care as long as they work
Magazines are expensive, I also don't care as long as they work
The level of build quality is not even close to that of the HK MR series
With all of that said I will shoot and keep the rifle as I like all sorts of rifles and this one is different enough to permanently enjoy a spot in one of my safes.
Sorry, I can't speak to the ACR........yet.
I have not shot the rifle yet, just tore it apart to clean it up after purchasing NIB.
Here are my observations:
Most of these criticisms are based on it being the better part of 3 grand and directly comparing it to other rifles.
Positives:
Very light and feels well balanced
Stock is capable of folding and locking in place
Comes with Iron sights that actually function and fold
Piston operated so it should stay pretty clean
Pretty much fully ambi
Adjustable cheek weld on stock
Comes with a 20 round magazine
7.62 mm
Negatives:
You have to run a cleaning rod through the receiver to get the gas piston out
Gas piston isn't completely chromed
Reciprocating charging handle
Grip is absolute bottom drawer AR15 LPK
Safety selctor is poorly placed and smallish making it hard to operate
Polymer feels "cheap" -Completely subjective
Parts finishes aren't all a consistent color or hue
The stock feels especially cheap and I predict the lock will break
For the money they could give you more than a cheap-ass cardboard box
Trigger is not great, but I can make any trigger work. - Compared to HK MR series it sucks real bad
Magazines are proprietary, I don't care as long as they work
Magazines are expensive, I also don't care as long as they work
The level of build quality is not even close to that of the HK MR series
With all of that said I will shoot and keep the rifle as I like all sorts of rifles and this one is different enough to permanently enjoy a spot in one of my safes.
Sorry, I can't speak to the ACR........yet.
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One other thing I will say about the SCAR is the lack of aftermarket barrels. I would really like a 20" for the 17s and a 10" for the 16s. HDD Tactical has had them on backorder for I don't know how long. Does anyone know where to get these?
Factory 10" barrels are available. Better than anything HDD will put out.
FN SCAR 10-inch Barrel Assembly NIB P/N: 98802 : Rifle Barrels at GunBroker.com
