Action causing accuracy issues ?

[deersniper]

Anyone seent a action cause accuracy issues ? Have a custom action that takes prefits that I can’t Get to shoot to save my life. Have tried 2 different stocks barrels rings silencers scopes

Getting the chop saw warmed up

 

[Supersubes]

Check the fire control parts, all of them. Is this a new receiver?

 

[Huskydriver]

Barrel specs?

 

[deersniper]

Check the fire control parts, all of them. Is this a new receiver?

Yes new receiver

Barrel specs?

#3 Bartlien and a rem Varmint ish contour benchmark




I’m not ruling out the trigger slapper but I can shoot good groups and some great groups with AI etc.
This thing will toss some rounds 1-2” from group

At this point I would have been money and time ahead to get a full SAC/GAP/KRG/TS etc build

Oh it’s 223
Both barrels are from top well known smiths

 

[Rob01]

What ammo? Twist rate?

 

[Mordamer]

Scope rail to action checked for tightness?

 

[deersniper]

What ammo? Twist rate?

Hornady black hills federal Australian outback 50-77
1:8 and or 1:7

Scope rail to action checked for tightness?

Yes retorqued everything multiple times. Bases are pinned on to begin with

 

[nn8734]

Anyone seent a action cause accuracy issues ? Have a custom action that takes prefits that I can’t Get to shoot to save my life. Have tried 2 different stocks barrels rings silencers scopes

Getting the chop saw warmed up

Yes, though its very rare. I believe @BillyNg had a similar issue where he tried everything under the sun and couldn’t get the rifle to shoot. In that case the action itself was found to be the problem.

 

[deersniper]

Yes, though its very rare. I believe @BillyNg had a similar issue where he tried everything under the sun and couldn’t get the rifle to shoot. In that case the action itself was found to be the problem.

Ima be happy and pissed at the same time. Happy I found the problem. Pissed at the ammo and money pissed away on it

 

[Mordamer]

My gut reaction is to be very skeptical about the action being the problem. I have to admit, it would nag at me too if I changed all the other parts and the issue remained.

I generally think that precision mostly boils down to barrels and bullets. It is hard to get high quality barrels and bullets to shoot bad unless there is a major issue somewhere in the system. Sounds like you have high quality barrels and decent bullets.

I'm stumped.

 

[deersniper]

Maybe it’s just the shooter. Idk

 

[Near miss]

Do you use the same bipods with it?
How does the stock fit you?
Do you have pics of the groups to show us?
And also..
Have you tried shooting it with BH?
Left handed, without a bag, giving pressure to pinky?
Middle finger on the trigger?
Suppressed?

 

[pineoak]

Might be worth asking a gunsmith to do the work and see what he gets.

If it still doesn't work, contact action manufacturer with long explanation of what you tried and what the results were.

Then send back the action to the manufacturer if they can't figure it out remotely.

Update us after with results so everyone can learn something.

 

[djarecke]

What action manufacturer?

 

[Mordamer]

If it is a Zermatt action you should call them. They bend over backwards to help with stuff like this even when it's not their fault. They genuinely want to help people enjoy their shooting experience.

 

[supercorndogs]

I have had actions that would not lay straight in a chassis cause problems. When you tighten the front action screw does it lift the rear tang, or the other way around?

 

[deersniper]

Do you have pics of the groups to show us?

It shoots 55 steel match best lol. Don’t have many group pics. I get frustrated and throw the box out.

 

[Mordamer]

It shoots 55 steel match best lol. Don’t have many group pics. I get frustrated and throw the box out.

View attachment 7845307

I'd be happy with that group.... at 300 yards.

 

[deersniper]

What action manufacturer?

Not gonna shit on them when there’s a chance it’s me

 

[DangerRanger]

Ignition energy is huge in repeatability.

It happens

There are some br smiths that specialize in fixing actions that won’t shoot small.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Not in the same boat precision wise, but I bought a 7mm-08 rifle 20 years ago to caribou hunt with. It wouldn’t group to save a life. Three shooters, multiple ammo choices. Selling dealer sent it back to manufacturer who couldn’t figure it out. The ended up sending a complete new rifle back to dealer. He was kind enough to let me choose on taking that gun or giving me store credit towards another rifle. Ended up with a Rem Sendero SF in 300WM that shoot great.

 

[Jon_K508]

Anyone seent a action cause accuracy issues ? Have a custom action that takes prefits that I can’t Get to shoot to save my life. Have tried 2 different stocks barrels rings silencers scopes

Getting the chop saw warmed up

Had this problem recently. Thing shot dimes. Second time out shot like crap. After I burned the oil out the barrel it shot mint. Note to self. Clean barrel of oil first.

 

[abn31c]

Mark the shoulder with a sharpie, spin it on and then remove. Might not have full contact with receiver. Have you checked if the bolt face is square? But first I would make sure the action isn't binding in the chasis.

 

[Barelstroker]

It shoots 55 steel match best lol. Don’t have many group pics. I get frustrated and throw the box out.

View attachment 7845307

Tell me, what other rifles do you own which shoot under 1 MOA 10 shot groups?

 

[deersniper]

Tell me, what other rifles do you own which shoot under 1 MOA 10 shot groups?

AI , GAP ,DTs, ARs etc

I want this thing to shoot as well as my AI
Shouldn’t be too much to ask

 

[Barelstroker]

AI , GAP ,DTs, ARs etc

I want this thing to shoot as well as my AI
Shouldn’t be too much to ask

How much less than 1 MOA do these rifles maintain on an ongoing basis?
Ten shot groups ofcourse.

 

[just browsing]

Have you had anyone else shoot to confirm they are getting similar results?

 

[Stevo86]

Anyone seent a action cause accuracy issues ? Have a custom action that takes prefits that I can’t Get to shoot to save my life. Have tried 2 different stocks barrels rings silencers scopes

Getting the chop saw warmed up

Did you drop it out the tractor? Or run it over with the tractor ?

 

[deersniper]

How much less than 1 MOA do these rifles maintain on an ongoing basis?
Ten shot groups ofcourse.

I don’t do many ten shot groups. I hardly have time to shoot much anymore. These other ones will do under 1/2” 5 shot groups.

I’m not the best shooter I just expect this gun with top shelf components to do at least as well as my DTs and AI. Currently I have ARs that shoot better

 

[deersniper]

Have you had anyone else shoot to confirm they are getting similar results?

No I don’t have that option

 

[357Max]

I’d call the smiths that chambered the barrels & ask them what reamer was used & to give you ammo recommendations.

Did the smiths know you don’t reload?

Reamer selection might not be optimal for factory ammo.

 

[Barelstroker]

I don’t do many ten shot groups. I hardly have time to shoot much anymore. These other ones will do under 1/2” 5 shot groups.

I’m not the best shooter I just expect this gun with top shelf components to do at least as well as my DTs and AI. Currently I have ARs that shoot better

These other ones will do under 1/2” 5 shot groups.

I had a suspicion you might be beating yourself up about this prematurely.
In all honesty, there's no such thing as a true 1/2" 5 shot group.
If it was a 10 shot 1/2" group that's another thing but, a 1/2" 5 shot group is a lot like a 400 yrd 1/4 mile. It just aint real.
My advice is to take those other rifle & shoot a couple 10 shot groups to compare apples to apples. I think you'll be surprised, one way or the other.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Have you pulled the firing pin assembly out of the bolt to verify the pin isn't rubbing on the inside of the bolt body?

Is any part of the bolt touching the back of the barrel?

@lash can you add in some images of that barrel we pulled yesterday? Maybe one of the front of the bolt too.

How about the sear/trigger dragging?

If you have a different action, is it feasible to swap the bolts (if headspace is okay) and try it again?

Is the bolt closing beyond 90°?
Does the bolt handle rub on the stock?

Did you check the air in the tires?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Is the front action screw touching the lower bolt lug when a round is chambered?

 

[dimar1492]

I had a suspicion you might be beating yourself up about this prematurely.
In all honesty, there's no such thing as a true 1/2" 5 shot group.
If it was a 10 shot 1/2" group that's another thing but, a 1/2" 5 shot group is a lot like a 400 yrd 1/4 mile. It just aint real.
My advice is to take those other rifle & shoot a couple 10 shot groups to compare apples to apples. I think you'll be surprised, one way or the other.

Why stop there? Make it 100 shot groups or you ain't shit!!! Lol
Regardless of how many rounds in the group, his rifle isn't meeting his expectations like his others apparently are.

Guess you should inform the benchrest crowd that all the 5 round groups they're shooting ain't real...

 

[deersniper]

I had a suspicion you might be beating yourself up about this prematurely.
In all honesty, there's no such thing as a true 1/2" 5 shot group.
If it was a 10 shot 1/2" group that's another thing but, a 1/2" 5 shot group is a lot like a 400 yrd 1/4 mile. It just aint real.
My advice is to take those other rifle & shoot a couple 10 shot groups to compare apples to apples. I think you'll be surprised, one way or the other.

I get enough wallet groups as someone calls them like this out of my other rifles

That’s with a button rifled barrel and hornady ammo

Haven’t shot one group close to that out of this new problem child

 

[deersniper]

Have you pulled the firing pin assembly out of the bolt to verify the pin isn't rubbing on the inside of the bolt body?

Is any part of the bolt touching the back of the barrel?

@lash can you add in some images of that barrel we pulled yesterday? Maybe one of the front of the bolt too.

How about the sear/trigger dragging?

If you have a different action, is it feasible to swap the bolts (if headspace is okay) and try it again?

Is the bolt closing beyond 90°?
Does the bolt handle rub on the stock?

Did you check the air in the tires?

Will check that stuff thank you

 

[StrayDog]

Have you taken a very close look at the crown?

 

[Stevo86]

Im
Blaming the shooter on this one

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Stock or chassis bedded?

 

[deersniper]

Stock or chassis bedded?

Krg bravo and xlr element.



I have a untrued 700 in a bravo with a used take off SAC 6.5cm barrel that shoots lights out.
Smh.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Those groups are definitely funky. I am guessing either stock pressure on barrel/action or the chamber throat is off-center. If you don't have a teslong borescope.......I recommend one......its a cheap inspection tool for new barrels and cleaning used ones.

Ern

 

[StrayDog]

The crown isn't going to do shit to your group....one of the biggest myths in shooting is that the crown is this magical thing that has the ability to destroy accuracy.

Wrong general, look at this prefit crown I was sent and didn't expect to find, until I was getting 3" groups at 100y.

It failed the Q tip test too

 

[StrayDog]

Well, @deersniper , chop saw time!

 

[Barelstroker]

Why stop there? Make it 100 shot groups or you ain't shit!!! Lol
Regardless of how many rounds in the group, his rifle isn't meeting his expectations like his others apparently are.

Guess you should inform the benchrest crowd that all the 5 round groups they're shooting ain't real...

From deersniper's answer I understood that he shot 5 shot groups with his other rifles & 10 shot groups with the rifle he's having issues with.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It seems to me that a direct comparison of group size per shot number might be a place to start. If you're suggesting that the number of shots used in a group has no influence on the result, I really don't know what to say.
The rifle may indeed have an issue but, it seems to me that he's basing his opinion on comparisons with his other rifles. It just seems logical to me that a like for like comparison would be the 1st place to start.
Anyhow, whatever. I've given my suggestion so it's up to the Op to decide if there's any merit in it.

 

[lash]

The crown isn't going to do shit to your group....one of the biggest myths in shooting is that the crown is this magical thing that has the ability to destroy accuracy.

Wrong general, look at this prefit crown I was sent and didn't expect to find, until I was getting 3" groups at 100y.
View attachment 7846953
It failed the Q tip test too

This was still shooting great. I only took the suppressor off to clean it.

 

[deersniper]

that he shot 5 shot groups with his other rifles & 10 shot groups with the rifle he's having issues with.

Negative. I rarely shoot 10 round groups. Mostly 5s and 3s. This was one of the only pics I took of a group from this rifle. I understand the difference between group shot quantity

 

[StrayDog]

I haven't shot this barrel since it came back from re-crowning. I had assumed this gouge was the source of bad 100y groups of @ 3" on factory match ammo that was .5 moa otherwise. The vendor was good about it.
I should spin in on and shoot it again now, for science... Mythbusting.
I feel your pain, sucks to waste match ammo on accuracy diagnostics instead of match prep!

 

[Barelstroker]

Negative. I rarely shoot 10 round groups. Mostly 5s and 3s. This was one of the only pics I took of a group from this rifle. I understand the difference between group shot quantity

All good.

 

[Baron23]

View attachment 7846977

This was still shooting great. I only took the suppressor off to clean it.

View attachment 7846976

How the fuck does that happen?

This is what’s left of the muzzle crown? Wo