Action options for 300blk bolt gun?

[PlinkIt]

I saw discussion on this a long ago, and how certain actions just wouldn't eject the little 300 spent case correctly. I would prefer to build another Tikka into a 300blk, but I'm under the impression that may not go so well...

I don't keep up with the current actions very well, so what are the "approved" actions for building the lightest little 300blk you could manage?

 

[PlinkIt]

The only factory options I'm aware of are Remington, which I'm not a huge fan of lately...

Or the little Ruger ranch which seems promising, but has nothing for aftermarket stock options that I can see...

 

[deersniper]

I'd imagine the model 7 or a CZ would be the way to go.

 

[PBWalsh]

CZ Mini action or a Howa Mini 1500 seems like it’d work as they are designed for smaller cartridges. I think Defiance may make a Remington Model 7 size action as well.

 

[Barney88PDC]

So a fast twist 308 would shoot subs at rhe exact same speed as a 300BLK. Supersonic it would thrash a 300 BLK. I get 300 BLK in an AR, but for a bolt, go 308.

 

[dinc3]

What Barney said. I don't shoot suppressed all the time and so a lot of my 300 BLK is supersonic. 308 is just as easy.

Also, if you do go 300 BLK, just go Rem 700 vs Model 7. The full size is easier to stock and put bottom metal on, you don't save much weight or size with a Seven. A small bolt head action is also fun to make 6x45 or back to 223.

Ejection? Nearly all actions are designed around a 308 size head and then adapted to 223. Occasional ejection problems happen and just need to be massaged. Any decent smith will lot let it our of the shop until it runs. It's not a duty gun, just be aware of the ejection tendencies and plan accordingly. About the 1500 round mark ALL actions get a lot smoother! Go shoot!

 

[PlinkIt]

So a fast twist 308 would shoot subs at rhe exact same speed as a 300BLK. Supersonic it would thrash a 300 BLK. I get 300 BLK in an AR, but for a bolt, go 308.

Thanks guys
I don't disagree, but most of the factory 308 subsonic I see local to me is 2-3 times the cost as compared to subsonic 300blk. I'm trying to find more things I can grab cases of ammo and go shoot vs speeding a bunch of time at my little single stage. Every time I spend an hour on reloading, I could have been off shooting is the point I'm getting to lately...

What Barney said. I don't shoot suppressed all the time and so a lot of my 300 BLK is supersonic. 308 is just as easy.

Also, if you do go 300 BLK, just go Rem 700 vs Model 7. The full size is easier to stock and put bottom metal on, you don't save much weight or size with a Seven. A small bolt head action is also fun to make 6x45 or back to 223.

Ejection? Nearly all actions are designed around a 308 size head and then adapted to 223. Occasional ejection problems happen and just need to be massaged. Any decent smith will lot let it our of the shop until it runs. It's not a duty gun, just be aware of the ejection tendencies and plan accordingly. About the 1500 round mark ALL actions get a lot smoother! Go shoot!

I guess the 700 size for bottom metal is a good point. I'd imagine that the AI pattern 223 mags should feed the 300blk as well...

 

[BurnOut]

CZ Mini action or a Howa Mini 1500 seems like it’d work as they are designed for smaller cartridges. I think Defiance may make a Remington Model 7 size action as well.

The Howa Mini is a great option, IMO. Small, light, well-built, and fairly inexpensive if purchased as a barreled action from Brownell's. I have two of them; one in 7.62x39, and another that's currently a .223 Rem (but I am planning on turning into a Grendel-based wildcat). The CZ mini action would be STELLAR, but pricey.

Another option would be the Ruger American Ranch... I have one of those in 300BLK, and it's a great little gun for the money.

 

[fdkay]

If you are going to build, by far the easiest to build would be a savage. You could build one off the walking varminter action.
An old model 340 would be an excellent base for a blackout build.
In the end, the cheapest route would likely be the remington or ruger, I'd lean more towards the remington, only because I could easily build it into something else.

 

[rookie7]

There are some reports that the CZ isn’t that good I.e. not up to its normal standard. The Howa mini would be perfect if offered in 300 blk, but few stock and mag options.

I have the Ruger and it’s good for a hunting plinking truck gun. If I were sinking money into one it would be the 700 because of all the aftermarket support.

 

[Ledzep]

What's not up to snuff about the Cz527? I'm sending one off tomorrow to PVA to get chambered in 6mm AR.

That said, I'm also having Josh spin me up a 1:8 twist 16" long .308 barrel for my Mausingfield for subs, tracers, and other .30 cal fun.

 

[762libertarian]

It might not be the best option for a custom build but the Sako 85 rifles in .223 have a nice small receiver and feeds from double stack, six shot magazines. I wouldn't buy one for the action alone, but if you like any of the stocks they come in then it might be an option if you want to have something a little bit different.

The rational choice is probably a Howa mini action.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My shooting Buddy is a big 300BLK fan, makes his own brass and all the rest. I just don't see the attraction.

I tried a 30 cal that's a lot more conventional, the 7.62x39; starting with a Century Arms Mauser sporter that was rebarreled for it. It was a disappointment, mainly because the rifle was just not up to a working par, and the surplus ammo I was feeding it was just this side of being pure junk. I sold it at a gun show and was glad just to get anything for it.

Then the earlier version of the Savage Scout 10FCM came out in 308 and 7.62x39, and I sprung for one of the latter, thinking vaguely that the bolt face might lend itself to some variety of PPC cartridge. It was a completely different animal from the Mauser.

The bore is configured for both .311/.312 and .308 bullets; with a forcing cone and a genuine 30 caliber bore. The rifle is a solidly, tightly built Savage with a carbine style barrel contour and length, and a workable synthetic stock. There's also the Accu-Trigger and a D/M.

I removed the rear sight and Scout style scope mount, and replaced it with a conventional 20MOA base. IMHO the Scout favors clip slot feeding. The Savage 10FCM has no clip slot, feeds from the D/M, and has no need for an LER mounted scope. I bought some American made ammo, and the rifle stands up to the goal of being a brush gun for deer, etc. Were I to handload it for such an application, it would be a prime contender for .30-30-specific bullets.

Then I started handloading. Right away, a load using the HDY 110gr V-Max and a nearly max load of IMR-4198 went right to the top of the charts. It's very accurate. I also tried the HDY 110gr GMX, a plastic tipped copper monolith, intending that the greater length would translate into somewhat of a stretched downrange trajectory. But so far, I haven't gotten it to shoot anywhere near as small as the V-Max. It's still early in this game, so I'll try a little bit of development. Eventually. Maybe.

The point of this longish story is that the BO can be a fun niche cartridge. But I also think the 7.62x39 loaded with .308 bullets in a .308 barrel can do much the same, and do so with nearly none of the special tasks associated with some BO applications. Bulk it up with some heavy projectiles, treat the load like a pistol cartridge, run a silencer, and it will probably haul that mail pretty well, too.

Greg

 

[m6z]

Have one to sell? Sell now 300AAC Blackout barrel w/QPQ for Savage bolt action rifle $145

Found this the other day.

 

[deersniper]

The BO is nice for someone that doesn't reload. Functions in a AR with subs and supers and the Leupold 300 blk scope is close enough to work pretty well with both loads.
It would surprise some people how far you can make hits with the 1.5-5 scope and 300 subs/supers

My shooting Buddy is a big 300BLK fan, makes his own brass and all the rest. I just don't see the attraction.

I tried a 30 cal that's a lot more conventional, the 7.62x39; starting with a Century Arms Mauser sporter that was rebarreled for it. It was a disappointment, mainly because the rifle was just not up to a working par, and the surplus ammo I was feeding it was just this side of being pure junk. I sold it at a gun show and was glad just to get anything for it.

Then the earlier version of the Savage Scout 10FCM came out in 308 and 7.62x39, and I sprung for one of the latter, thinking vaguely that the bolt face might lend itself to some variety of PPC cartridge. It was a completely different animal from the Mauser.

The bore is configured for both .311/.312 and .308 bullets; with a forcing cone and a genuine 30 caliber bore. The rifle is a solidly, tightly built Savage with a carbine style barrel contour and length, and a workable synthetic stock. There's also the Accu-Trigger and a D/M.

I removed the rear sight and Scout style scope mount, and replaced it with a conventional 20MOA base. IMHO the Scout favors clip slot feeding. The Savage 10FCM has no clip slot, feeds from the D/M, and has no need for an LER mounted scope. I bought some American made ammo, and the rifle stands up to the goal of being a brush gun for deer, etc. Were I to handload it for such an application, it would be a prime contender for .30-30-specific bullets.

Then I started handloading. Right away, a load using the HDY 110gr V-Max and a nearly max load of IMR-4198 went right to the top of the charts. It's very accurate. I also tried the HDY 110gr GMX, a plastic tipped copper monolith, intending that the greater length would translate into somewhat of a stretched downrange trajectory. But so far, I haven't gotten it to shoot anywhere near as small as the V-Max. It's still early in this game, so I'll try a little bit of development. Eventually. Maybe.

The point of this longish story is that the BO can be a fun niche cartridge. But I also think the 7.62x39 loaded with .308 bullets in a .308 barrel can do much the same, and do so with nearly none of the special tasks associated with some BO applications. Bulk it up with some heavy projectiles, treat the load like a pistol cartridge, run a silencer, and it will probably haul that mail pretty well, too.

Greg

 

[rookie7]

@Ledzep the few reports that I have read about the CZ was regarding factory rifles. Feeding has been a problem for some as well as accuracy. Same story that is reported on the Ruger by some.

Luckily, my experience with the Ruger has been fine. Both of my mags feed fine and accuracy is usually around 3/4” 5 shot groups at 100 with handloads. A few 1/2” groups here and there, but a 1/2” Gun it is not.

IMO the 300 blk is about as perfect a medium game caliber for youth. My daughter has 2 bucks to her credit with the blackout.

I might take a 200 yard shot at whitetail with it if all conditions are perfect with 110 Barnes TAC Tx. However, I don’t care if my daughter was shooting a 300 mag I make her wait until the deer is 50 yards or less, broadside, and stationary.

The Ruger is a fun rifle, and an almost perfect brush gun. I am going to send the bolt off to be fluted and micro slicked.

 

[BravoSector1]

I've got a Remy 700 in .300BO that is now an SBR....endless fun. Medium game with supers and hearing the sear release, and round impact, with subs has not gotten old. Feeds from AI 223 mags without hesitation. Very easy to make your own brass and reload. The supers are in the .30-30/7.62x39 velocity/energy range and perform well in that envelope/use.

 

[jbuck88]

I picked up a Rem700 chambered in 17FB to rebarrel for my 300bo build. I also had a aac m7 that seemed better scaled to the small round.

I have had zero problems with extracting or feeding. I did have a few ftf problems while using a AI magazine. Others fed fine though.

 

[PlinkIt]

I've got a Remy 700 in .300BO that is now an SBR....endless fun. Medium game with supers and hearing the sear release, and round impact, with subs has not gotten old. Feeds from AI 223 mags without hesitation. Very easy to make your own brass and reload. The supers are in the .30-30/7.62x39 velocity/energy range and perform well in that envelope/use.

That just gave me an idea... if I get a raw receiver I could build a 700 “pistol” ... get a chassis that accepts AR buffers and a pistol brace....

Thanks

 

[Wilc0]

I have a Remmy 700 in .300 BLK, it's been good to me for the short time that I've had it. The stock and trigger are awful, but I've got a manners and a triggertech on the way to fix that.

 

[mcfred]

After years of shooting wildcats and non-standard cartridges from magazines I now lean more towards control round fed actions with mechanical ejection over push-feed, sprung ejectors. Cases stripped from the mag with the rim captured seems to help feeding and ejection happens when the bolt is near the rear of travel instead of whenever the case clears the breech. To that end, I have been using the CZ 527 for .223 sized rounds. They're not the least expensive option, but they're all steel and wood over the 5¢ plastic stuff. The 527s can start a little rough, but working the bolt in front of a movie or two really helps, and the fully adjustable trigger's a nice touch, not to mention the set function.

That said, I have shot a Howa Mini in .223 and it is a really nice action. Once broken in, they're quite smooth and the proprietary 10 round mags are nice despite the mag release lever being in the wrong place. If they addressed the cheap plastic parts for the same price point they'd have a real winner.

I think the 'full sized' 700/Savage 110 is overkill for something like the .223/.300 BO unless you want to shoot something with overall lengths >2.450" from a poly AI mag.

 

[rookie7]

I feel the Howa mini is about the perfect action for the 300 blk. Just wish there were more stock options out there for the Howa mini, AND I wish Legacy Sports would have chambered the mini in the 300 blk instead of the 7.62x39. That decision leaves me SMH.

 

[fdkay]

I feel the Howa mini is about the perfect action for the 300 blk. Just wish there were more stock options out there for the Howa mini, AND I wish Legacy Sports would have chambered the mini in the 300 blk instead of the 7.62x39. That decision leaves me SMH.

The 7.62x39 is a superior cartridge with an incredibly diverse ammo selection, from cheap steel cased to high quality brass cased. It also shares the same bolt face with the grendel.
I like the BLK, but it has never been and never will be the equal of the 7.62x39.

 

[rookie7]

The 7.62x39 is a superior cartridge with an incredibly diverse ammo selection, from cheap steel cased to high quality brass cased. It also shares the same bolt face with the grendel.
I like the BLK, but it has never been and never will be the equal of the 7.62x39.

That is what Legacy said, but I disagree with you both. Look at the available bullets from Hornady. The 7.62mm only has three choices of bullets to load whereas the .308 has 30 choices in bullets. Also, the .310 bullets from Hornady are all the same weight.

To me I don't see the win for the 7.62 over the 300 blk. Cheap surplus ammo - yes, but quality ammo - no.

For the non-handloader I can see the allure of the cheap surplus ammo but it advantage appears to end there.

I don't see where the grendel bolt face is any advantage at all - until recently with the intro of the .224 valkyrie.

As far as balistic equality - in the real world of American hunters and shooters there isn't any difference in the 2.

I haven't seen any reports on the inherent accuracy of the 2 compared.

If I am missing something please point it out - I am open to being educated.
Thanks

 

[Mrfjones]

I’m kinda with rookie7, but there is really no reason they shouldn’t have done both.

As a person that lives in california and soon wont be able to buy ammo any more, just reloading, i feel like i have more and better options with blackout and i currently don’t have anything 7.62x39 so I have no stockpile of brass either. So for me it’s better cause i can use it.

 

[flyer]

I just bought a .308 barrel to use in a "switch barrel" setup. The twist is 1 in 10" and the muzzle is threaded so it is going to be good for shooting 200 grain or more subsonic ammo with a can (I'm in California but I can dream) and 7.62*51 surplus ammo I have, all with the same bolt face as my primary 6.5 Creedmoor barrel.

The downside is that subsonic loads probably need Trail Boss powder because the case capacity is larger.

For single purpose and wanting to buy subsonic box ammo, the black out might be better and I did think for a moment about getting a .300 Black Out barrel and bolt head but I decided .308 is better for me.

 

[fdkay]

That is what Legacy said, but I disagree with you both. Look at the available bullets from Hornady. The 7.62mm only has three choices of bullets to load whereas the .308 has 30 choices in bullets. Also, the .310 bullets from Hornady are all the same weight.

To me I don't see the win for the 7.62 over the 300 blk. Cheap surplus ammo - yes, but quality ammo - no.

For the non-handloader I can see the allure of the cheap surplus ammo but it advantage appears to end there.

I don't see where the grendel bolt face is any advantage at all - until recently with the intro of the .224 valkyrie.

As far as balistic equality - in the real world of American hunters and shooters there isn't any difference in the 2.

I haven't seen any reports on the inherent accuracy of the 2 compared.

If I am missing something please point it out - I am open to being educated.
Thanks

Here is 10 different bullets that will work for the 7.62x39, from 115 to 180 grain, of course, there are others.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/rifle-bullets/-point-311-dia
You will net around 200 - 250 FPS more with similar bullet weights, which is substantial. The .308 bulets will have better BC's, but niether is a long range cartridge.
Some 7.62x39 rifles are designed with .308 bores, which opens up a greater selection of bullets, allowing you to use both.

I should have been more specific. The 7.62x39 is superior in a bolt action, where you can play with seating depths and different bullets.
You can get velocities just over 2,000 fps with bullets as heavy as 150 grains in the 7.62x39 (the same velocity you could expect with a 125 grain bullet in a bolt .300).
1000 rounds of ammo for 180 bucks is hard to beat.
In a semi-auto, and considering the original design (123 gr vs 110 grain in the blk), the blk is the superior choice but is certainly more spendy.
Keep in mind, the 7.62x39 is the parent case for some of the most accurate cartridges designed (220 russian, 6mm PPC, .30 PPC).

I am not a Blk hater, I carry one for duty. It is a niche cartridge and fills that niche better than just about anything else.

 

[bohem]

It sometimes depends on just how someone runs the bolt. Sometimes not.

I built up a couple 300BLK bolt actions for Tikkas with prefit barrels for a customer. They ejected just fine but the actions were all new 223's that we stripped off the original barrel and went from there.

Ejection is the failure that most 300BLK bolt guns suffer from. If you really want to make it work and don't mind spending some money then the inertial type ejector receivers from ARC, Bighorn, etc will handle it just fine.

For a bolt gun though... my honest opinion is to run it in a 7 twist 308 and just load subs when you want subs. When you want big boy speed and oomph you can swap the mag out and put regular ammo in it.

 

[rookie7]

My experience with the Ruger American has been very positive aside from the crap stock and trigger. Feeding and ejection have never been an issue for MY rifle.

It will not single feed a bullet dropped into the action though. Fast or slow it feeds and ejects for me.

I understand the allure of a dual purpose cartridge like the .308 for this application.

There are some significant advantages to the 300 blk IMO to warrant an individual rifle: pistol powder, small rifle and pistol primers (I use them both), billions of brass, AND I NEVER trim brass - ever, minimal muzzle blast, and fun to shoot.

I can also get single digit SDs with W680 powder and 125 and 150 grain bullets.

That’s been my experience so far.

 

[steve123]

The only factory options I'm aware of are Remington, which I'm not a huge fan of lately...

Or the little Ruger ranch which seems promising, but has nothing for aftermarket stock options that I can see...

I'd try to find a used Ruger. I had one in 300BO for a while. It was an okay rifle and I'm glad I tried it instead of other more expensive rifles, my main purpose was to just see what the cartridge was like.

The rifle feeds decent and ejects perfectly. There's a long gap to get a case into the barrel and found that a fast bolt push worked best. Mine was a 1-1.25 moa rifle with good handloads.

After lots of experimenting I decided that 300BO just wasn't for me. With the heavy subs it was really hard to find a load that gave halfway decent vertical at 400-500 yards and hitting steel in normal winds was hard.

Then the BC is so low on the 110's and 125's, and same with the velocity 2300-2400 fps, that medium distance with wind was too challenging.

It was fun to try, I found out what I wanted to, and it belongs to someone else now.

 

[fdkay]

I'd try to find a used Ruger. I had one in 300BO for a while. It was an okay rifle and I'm glad I tried it instead of other more expensive rifles, my main purpose was to just see what the cartridge was like.

The rifle feeds decent and ejects perfectly. There's a long gap to get a case into the barrel and found that a fast bolt push worked best. Mine was a 1-1.25 moa rifle with good handloads.

After lots of experimenting I decided that 300BO just wasn't for me. With the heavy subs it was really hard to find a load that gave halfway decent vertical at 400-500 yards and hitting steel in normal winds was hard.

Then the BC is so low on the 110's and 125's, and same with the velocity 2300-2400 fps, that medium distance with wind was too challenging.

It was fun to try, I found out what I wanted to, and it belongs to someone else now.

savage stated the reason they chose not to chamber a bolt gun in .300 blk was that it was impossible to meet their accuracy standards with both super and sub sonic.
They could get one or the other to shoot accurately, not both

 

[spife7980]

I did the same thing, I toyed with/am toying with a ruger ranch blackout. I found feeding fast was best out of those cheesy factory mags but I think thats mainly because right towards the front of the bolts travel the side bolt release hits the ramp in its groove and it takes a bit of momentum to smoothly navigate it. I had some issues shooting pigs at night where I was trying to be super quite while chambering and going slow it popped up free from the mag and having to muscle over the groove bump tossed the round out of ideal positioning to feed. Chamber it before the pigs get 20 yards away and I had no issues trying to be stealthy. It always ejected well when I could keep my thermal cords out from in the ejection ports way.

I also never took it to 500 yards, especially with subs. From a 100 yards zero it was 32" of drop at 200. I never imagined shooting it out to distance. Even with the supersonics I wouldnt think it would be very effective much past 200. I think of it as a toy 30-30 brush gun, good to distances that you might be comfortable shooting with notched iron sights.

But unlike steve I really like it and wont get rid of it. Im even building my first ar in 300bo and will probably give this to my sister as a hunting rifle if I dont keep it to toy with myself. So for targets and long range precision it is obviously not a good round, but for shooting animals at night or at the deer feeder its great.

 

[steve123]

I did the same thing, I toyed with/am toying with a ruger ranch blackout. I found feeding fast was best out of those cheesy factory mags but I think thats mainly because right towards the front of the bolts travel the side bolt release hits the ramp in its groove and it takes a bit of momentum to smoothly navigate it. I had some issues shooting pigs at night where I was trying to be super quite while chambering and going slow it popped up free from the mag and having to muscle over the groove bump tossed the round out of ideal positioning to feed. Chamber it before the pigs get 20 yards away and I had no issues trying to be stealthy. It always ejected well when I could keep my thermal cords out from in the ejection ports way.

I also never took it to 500 yards, especially with subs. From a 100 yards zero it was 32" of drop at 200. I never imagined shooting it out to distance. Even with the supersonics I wouldnt think it would be very effective much past 200. I think of it as a toy 30-30 brush gun, good to distances that you might be comfortable shooting with notched iron sights.

But unlike steve I really like it and wont get rid of it. Im even building my first ar in 300bo and will probably give this to my sister as a hunting rifle if I dont keep it to toy with myself. So for targets and long range precision it is obviously not a good round, but for shooting animals at night or at the deer feeder its great.

Yeah, I tried to make it what it isn't, also I didn't anticipate that I'd have the vertical issues. I could see it being a fun round suppressed for hunting closer in though.

Oh, and I went the opposite way, to 20-221 Fireball AI. It's funny shooting such a tiny round, 17.7gr of powder pushing a 32 grainer at 3740 fps.

 

[Tikkablk]

3 years back I had a Tikka T3 223rem rebarreled to a 12” 1:7 300 blackout. This is my main hunting rifle and running subs 90% of the time. Coming up to 200 deer and 1800+ goats with this rig. Head shot this stag between the eyes at 251m with a 208gr A-max subsonic handload.

 

[Frankr]

3 years back I had a Tikka T3 223rem rebarreled to a 12” 1:7 300 blackout. This is my main hunting rifle and running subs 90% of the time. Coming up to 200 deer and 1800+ goats with this rig. Head shot this stag between the eyes at 251m with a 208gr A-max subsonic handload.View attachment 6906193

Love my Tikka and wish I had bought a varmint in .223 when I found one for 400.00 as I would have make a perfect 300 blk base.

251m with subs is a nice shot.

Btw nice vizsla, hell if a hunting dog and companion (miss mine).

 

[Hoser]

I used a Bighorn TL3 for my 300 Whisper bolt gun. It is really quiet with 230 Bergers, N-110 and a Thunderbeast 338 Ultra. If I switch powders I bet I can get it quieter, but the accuracy is there with so I stopped playing.

 

[RFutch]

Sort of on topic...

Have any of you guys shot a 125 grain 308 past 500 yards with success?

 

[DacianMH]

So a fast twist 308 would shoot subs at rhe exact same speed as a 300BLK. Supersonic it would thrash a 300 BLK. I get 300 BLK in an AR, but for a bolt, go 308.

Yeah cause its so easy to develop 308 Subs. You only have two suitable powders, Trailboss and n32C. Good luck finding both.

 

[srt-4_uk]

5 years ago when this was posted, trail boss was widely available.

 

[DacianMH]

5 years ago when this was posted, trail boss was widely available.

Yeah i believe you’re right…not so anymore