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Range Report Adaptive's FDAC

jakew912

jakew912

Private
Minuteman
Aug 29, 2011
35
0
46
SW Virginia, USA
#1
I apologize in advance if this product has been discussed a lot, but a friend turned me on to this product from Adaptive...It's a Field Density Altitude Calculator(FDAC).

http://www.actsvirginia.com/sliderule.php

Looks like a cool item to have with you in case the batteries die in your smartphone. I think it is a little pricey at around $45. Anyone use this or something similar?
Anything similar in function but less in cost?
 
#2
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I've been using the FDAC for close to a year now and every time I go out with it, it simply works. In fact I don't think that I've talked to too many people that have been dissatisfied with theirs either. Like I said I've been using mine for about a year in cold weather, hot weather, stormy weather, etc...and the data has never been more than two tenths off at any distance. The chart that's printed on it for roughly calculating your DA has been pretty close also. I can generally figure the DA to be within a few hundred feet or so between the FDAC and a weather meter like the Kestrel.

I wrote a review about it for Accurate Shooter a while back for their bulletin:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/05/gear-review-field-density-altitude-compensator/

Frank (Lowlight) did a video review that's featured on Adaptive's website (actsvirginia.com)

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oc3PP4EKfAE"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oc3PP4EKfAE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Mike's review:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2054581&page=1

The only drawback that I can see to the FDAC is that they don't yet have custom cards out for guys wanting to shoot 155 Scenars, 6.5CM, and the multitude of other calibers. That being said, Adaptive has a compatibility chart that can help a shooter utilize the slides they have to accurately match the ballistics for 178 AMAX's, 168 AMAX's, 168 SMK's, and some other rounds as well. Adaptive is a solid company started by former Scout Snipers and they've been steadily supplying these things downrange to guys to help them do their jobs better. I seriously wish I had one of these when I was stil hauling around an M24. I hope all of this helps and the FDAC is a good investment for any .308 shooter.
 
#3
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

There are several in depth threads on the FDAC here, but its a great piece of gear and there's nothing wrong with bringing it up again. I second pretty much everything above. I have increased my first round hit probability significantly, and the fact that once you get the correct chart for your load you basically only ever need to know the temp and altitude of your firing position is awesome. Ive run it alongside several popular ballistics programs on my Iphone and as much as I liked them I find the FDAC generally to be more accurate. With the addition of more calibers and loads it will have a permanent place in my drag bag.
 
#4
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

i dont use anything but the fdac. threw all my other shit to the curb. i have a bdc knob on my uso cut to the fdac dope for an avg temp of 70. it works flawlessly. i just use the fdac as needed when there are extreme temp changes and or altitude.

not having to dick around plugging dumb shit into an electronic device when i can simply dial and shoot is nice.
 
#5
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I confess I don't quite get it. It is a cute device and a nice backup - but backup against what?

OK, you can get your physical altitude from a map as you should know where you are. You estimate the wind observing your environment, as a good shooter should be able to do that.

Where are you going to get the temperature? Kestrel? What makes you assume your Kestrel battery is charged but your iPhone battery is not? Perhaps you plan to carry an outdoor thermometer with you? Or plan to rely on that electronic watch with temperature gauge like the video review showed? An EMP that could fry your iPhone would fry all the electronics in the area including Kestrel and that watch of yours...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive run it alongside several popular ballistics programs on my Iphone and as much as I liked them I find the FDAC generally to be more accurate.</div></div>
I find this strange. Especially since FDAC has adjustments only for some velocities (approximately matching yours at best), while you should be able to determine the correct average velocity for your ammo using a good chrono and plug it into one of "several ballistic programs on iPhone".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anything similar in function but less in cost?</div></div>
Yes - go to JBM Online Trajectory Card
and print the Trajectory card for the altitudes and temperatures you're planning to operate in - for your precise load. For free.

P.S. For the fun of it I checked the difference between 175gr SMK and 178gr AMAX. They are correct - it's 0.2 mRad elevation difference (as FDAC specifies), windage is spot-on.
 
#6
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

Its not hype. PM me your shipping address and I'll ship you one to try. If it doesn't float your boat, donate it to www.americansnipers.org.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">On gathering atmospherics:</span></span>

It usually sounds like this: "Dude, just guess, quit being gay."

The first thing I have people do when they use the FDAC for the first time is to NOT use any form of instrumentation to gather temperature and altitude. I make them guess at it, use their guess along with the table to calculate DA, then find a firing solution, apply it to their optic, bang, hit. Now of course this is all assuming that they have a relatively accurate guess of the temp and the altitude their at, and of course using instrumentation is even more accurate, but it WORKS. Of course guessing can be quite subjective, but it's precisely what a military sniper will do when trying to quickly calculate dope to get a bullet in the air to hit an armed, partially exposed target, that moves around.

Hope the clarification helps!

Taylor
ACTS, LLC







 
#7
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I have been happy with mine. Its been right on the money +/- .1th all the way out. FWIW The berger 168 VLD is a balistic twin of the 175 smk and what I use for hunting. Works great for both.
 
#8
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I confess I don't quite get it. It is a cute device and a nice backup - but backup against what?

OK, you can get your physical altitude from a map as you should know where you are. You estimate the wind observing your environment, as a good shooter should be able to do that.

Where are you going to get the temperature? Kestrel? What makes you assume your Kestrel battery is charged but your iPhone battery is not? Perhaps you plan to carry an outdoor thermometer with you? Or plan to rely on that electronic watch with temperature gauge like the video review showed? An EMP that could fry your iPhone would fry all the electronics in the area including Kestrel and that watch of yours...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive run it alongside several popular ballistics programs on my Iphone and as much as I liked them I find the FDAC generally to be more accurate.</div></div>
I find this strange. Especially since FDAC has adjustments only for some velocities (approximately matching yours at best), while you should be able to determine the correct average velocity for your ammo using a good chrono and plug it into one of "several ballistic programs on iPhone".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anything similar in function but less in cost?</div></div>
Yes - go to JBM Online Trajectory Card
and print the Trajectory card for the altitudes and temperatures you're planning to operate in - for your precise load. For free.

P.S. For the fun of it I checked the difference between 175gr SMK and 178gr AMAX. They are correct - it's 0.2 mRad elevation difference (as FDAC specifies), windage is spot-on. </div></div>

Just because you know how to judge wind speed doesn't mean you have the mental capacity to convert that value into an actual sight adjustment. Somewhere along the line you're going to need some sort of chart, math formula or computer program to solve that problem for you. Now, if you choose to TRY to commit all that to memory, good on you but highly unlikely that you'll be able to memorize every possible wind speed/target distance scenario.

Even if you don't have an electronic device to supply a precise temperature value, you should have a pretty good idea of the temperature +/- 10 degrees. If not, I'd go back to square one and start paying more attention to your surroundings. Even a 10 degree temperature change is only going to result in about a .2 Mil POI shift at 900 yards(difference between less than 1K ft in DA). Still a hit in the body, resulting in the target being rendered combat ineffective. I've spent plenty of time operating in environments where active ECM operations were in effect as well as compass calls and none of my electronics were fried.

The FDAC is a combat tool. So even if your muzzle velocity doesn't match up exactly, the FDAC is going to get your bullet on the target relying on danger space to make up for the +/- 20 or 30 feet per second in muzzle velocity from that factory ammo. If you're using handloads, awesome! If you wanna use the FDAC try to find an accuracy node at or around the velocity specified on the cards. Too easy.

Sure you can go to JBM and run that for free and print off 5, 6, maybe 8 cards for different temperature/elevations, take the time to laminate them, then take the time to make sure they're organized and stay organized in your kit. Seems to make more sense to take Taylor up on his offer to try one for free. Helluva deal to me.

I use the FDAC and am extremely pleased with it's performance. The guys at ACTS are excellent snipers working hard to put a robust, reliable and simple product in the hands of fellow snipers to help them kill more bad guys. I have a slew of them available to my students that come through my courses and have yet to have any complaints. I teach them how to use it and actually make them shoot UKD courses of fire with them to build confidence.

Awesome job Chris and Taylor, I can only expect more great stuff to follow.
 
#10
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Caylen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because you know how to judge wind speed doesn't mean you have the mental capacity to convert that value into an actual sight adjustment. Somewhere along the line you're going to need some sort of chart, math formula or computer program to solve that problem for you.</div></div>
Of course - that's where printed charts and/or ballistic calculators come in.

It seems that in this day and age, even the military is moving to carrying ballistic comps in the field. Which makes sense to me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Even if you don't have an electronic device to supply a precise temperature value, you should have a pretty good idea of the temperature +/- 10 degrees. If not, I'd go back to square one and start paying more attention to your surroundings. Even a 10 degree temperature change is only going to result in about a .2 Mil POI shift at 900 yards(difference between less than 1K ft in DA).</div></div>
OK, so your point is that (a) it is reasonable to expect one to have (at least) a rough idea of the ambient temperature, and (b) an error of 5C (10F) isn't likely to invalidate a shooting solution in combat. OK.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've spent plenty of time operating in environments where active ECM operations were in effect as well as compass calls and none of my electronics were fried.</div></div>
Hmm, ECM that I'm familiar with won't interfere with Kestrel, nor with a calculator (like Bullet Flight on an iPod). Your GPS is a different story, of course.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The FDAC is a combat tool. So even if your muzzle velocity doesn't match up exactly, the FDAC is going to get your bullet on the target relying on danger space to make up for the +/- 20 or 30 feet per second in muzzle velocity from that factory ammo. If you're using handloads, awesome! If you wanna use the FDAC try to find an accuracy node at or around the velocity specified on the cards. Too easy.</div></div>
I see.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure you can go to JBM and run that for free and print off 5, 6, maybe 8 cards for different temperature/elevations, take the time to laminate them, then take the time to make sure they're organized and stay organized in your kit.</div></div>
This makes sense for loads that differ "enough" from FDAC. Or to save money.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems to make more sense to take Taylor up on his offer to try one for free. Helluva deal to me.</div></div>
Just did (take him up).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome job Chris and Taylor, I can only expect more great stuff to follow.</div></div>
+1
 
#11
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are you going to get the temperature? Kestrel? What makes you assume your Kestrel battery is charged but your iPhone battery is not? Perhaps you plan to carry an outdoor thermometer with you? Or plan to rely on that electronic watch with temperature gauge like the video review showed? An EMP that could fry your iPhone would fry all the electronics in the area including Kestrel and that watch of yours...</div></div>

Thought you said the EMP would fry all the electronics, to include the Kestrel and watch...
 
#12
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Caylen W</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are you going to get the temperature? Kestrel? What makes you assume your Kestrel battery is charged but your iPhone battery is not? Perhaps you plan to carry an outdoor thermometer with you? Or plan to rely on that electronic watch with temperature gauge like the video review showed? An EMP that could fry your iPhone would fry all the electronics in the area including Kestrel and that watch of yours...</div></div>
Thought you said the EMP would fry all the electronics, to include the Kestrel and watch... </div></div>
Yes I did.

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">The point was - while it may be rather difficult for the adversary to detect presence of such devices (i.e. a Kestrel weather meter/barometer, or a wrist watch - or an iPod) operating in the area, these devices could still be (permanently) disabled by an EMP.

Some military equipment is properly shielded, most of the civilian stuff isn't. Some experts think that the length of the wire (including that on the PCB and within IC) within small electronics (such as writstwatches) is too small to produce transient voltage of magnitude sufficient to cause damage; so they won't be harmed by EMP. Just how small a disconnected device needs to be to stay immune, is an open question. Some say solid-state battery-powered receivers with antennas disconnected won't be harmed... So I guess the correct answer is "it all depends". <span style="font-style: italic">A Faraday cage or a chain-mail suit nailed to the ground would improve the odds for your electronics.
grin.gif
</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Caylen W</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've spent plenty of time operating in environments where active ECM operations were in effect as well as compass calls and none of my electronics were fried.</div></div>
Oh, I see (after reading your post for the 2nd time and putting the above remark in context of your last comment). You think that EMP is just one of ECM tools, and you operated through ECM before? I'm willing to bet that you've no idea what a real good EMP is like.
smile.gif


Here are some references for you:
Electromagnetic Pulse in Wiki, and
EMP Impact from USA Today (somewhat exaggerated, but not without merit or reason).

 
#14
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

All I can say is, wow.

Anyways, the limitations we've discovered using the FDAC are only in the sight height of your weapon. ACTS, LLC. states that at about 2.75" things go awry. We noticed this while utilizing a LaRue OBR with an OBR QD mount and Leupold's M2010 34mm optic. This combo results in about a 3.25" sight height and the FDAC wasn't designed to provide solutions at this extreme end of the optical offset spectrum.
 
#15
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I obviously have not begun to explore the limits with it. The 16" I used is an LMT and is getting close to the 2.75" limit. I just find the amount of information crammed into such a simple, light device to be very good. Being able to drive to a range, guess the altitude, guess the temp, spin the dial and get a well centered first round hit on steel at 535 yds (I interpolated clicks between 500 and 550) left me with a smile.
 
#17
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I used mine today n got 1st and 2nd round hits out to 1010, I forgot my itouch and used the FDAC. I think I will be using it a little more from now on, every time I use it its right on.

I pretty much guess everything, but how hard is that? 80* and 500ft elevation?
 
#19
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sosicmcise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its not hype. PM me your shipping address and I'll ship you one to try. If it doesn't float your boat, donate it to www.americansnipers.org.
</div></div>
Taylor,

Sent you two PM's: one immediately after your posting (one month ago), and one a week or so ago - no response so far to either one (and of course no FDAC in the mail). Is everything OK? Does/did your offer stand?
 
#21
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sosicmcise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mouse, yours is en route. Should be to you by Tuesday of next week. Sorry for the delay.</div></div>
No problem whatsoever - just wanted to make sure everything's fine. Eager to try it - and I'll share my experience here.
 
#25
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

Taylor, thanks - FDAC arrived today. Haven't had a chance to try it yet - soon! First impressions: very well-made, very well designed. Should make a nice pair with MilDot Master.

More to follow.
 
#27
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I liked the product so much that I changed my load to match their velocities. That is saying something.</div></div>
Yes it is. I might do the same down the road, depending.

In the meanwhile I checked their Web site and browsed the MILSPEC-XR (to prepare for 338LM - because if I find FDAC is that good, I'll definitely buy the XR one). I got one comment and one question:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Question: .264 caliber listed in the Compatibility Matrix is usable for 260 Rem, correct? For heavier bullets like 140gr AMAX?[*]Comment: I would <span style="text-decoration: underline">really</span> love to see inclusion of 338 Berger Hybrid 300gr in the Compatibility Matrix! Please...? <span style="font-style: italic">I suspect I'm not the only one partial to Berger Hybrid bullets?</span>[/list]

<span style="font-style: italic">Update.

Wow!! First-shot hits on man-sized targets! Good data at 975m! Wow! Thanks for letting me try it!

Taylor, I'm buying your MILSPEC-XR.</span>
 
#29
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

The MILSPEC-XR is available through US Tactical Supply, we don't retail that model through our website.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. You'll find that if you have a very accurately measured muzzle velocity and atmospherics, an accurate load, a properly zeroed rifle, and a proficient and repeatable shooter behind the rifle, you can hit very small targets with the solutions found in the FDAC. Much smaller than the torso of a man. How do I know this? We spent two years testing the system with nearly every conceivable barrel, optic, velocity combination to ensure that the FDAC produced accurate solutions for anyone shooting M118LR or any similarly loaded cartridge (FGMM 175, Black Hills, yadda yadda).

Most of today's products that produce firing solutions that use a G7 drag model are extremely accurate, and the most important aspect is the user's interaction with the product and the data loaded into the product. If you know your gear, your ammo, your weather, and you're consistent, you can hit small targets at seriously long ranges with <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">ANY</span></span> system out there. Ours just makes the process faster, more efficient, less prone user input mistakes, and free of batteries and techno silliness. (yes, that is heavily opinionated, don't get all tactically upset and bend your boom mike on your integrated hearing pro communication headset).











 
#30
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sosicmcise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll find that if you have a <span style="color: #666666">very accurately measured muzzle velocity</span> <span style="color: #3333FF">and atmospherics, an accurate load, a properly zeroed rifle</span>, and <span style="color: #990000">a proficient and repeatable shooter behind the rifle</span>, you can hit very small targets with the solutions found in the FDAC. Much smaller than the torso of a man.</div></div>

<span style="color: #666666">This I did - to the extent I can trust the chrono. <span style="font-style: italic">No it's not an Oehler yet.</span></span>

<span style="color: #3333FF">These I can rely upon.</span>

<span style="color: #990000">And this is what I'm working on now!</span>
smile.gif



As I said, it looks like I'm missing just <span style="text-decoration: underline">one</span> thing in XR FDAC: inclusion of Berger Hybrid 300gr in 338 caliber Compatibility Matrix. Do you think you could add it?

Thanks!!
 
#31
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As I said, it looks like I'm missing just <span style="text-decoration: underline">one</span> thing in XR FDAC: inclusion of Berger Hybrid 300gr in 338 caliber Compatibility Matrix. Do you think you could add it?

Thanks!!


</div></div>
Taylor?
 
#33
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sosicmcise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We'll be adding the new Berger .338 caliber 300gn Hybrid bullet to the Load Compatibility Matrix here in a few days. It works very well with the XR system when fire the Berger bullet between 2700-2730 fps with the 300 gn 2800 fps card inserted in the case.</div></div>
You've made my day - thank you!

<span style="font-style: italic">P.S. <span style="text-decoration: line-through">According to postal tracking, FDAC-XR should arrive today!</span> XR arrived! What a wonderful tool!</span>
 
#34
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

Please allow me to repeat the request to add a line for .338 Berger Hybrid 300gr 2700fps bullet to the XR Load Compatibility Matrix. <span style="font-style: italic">The necessary edit should be trivial.</span>

Tnx!
 
#40
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I used mine here in CO yesterday...brand new barrel, brand new scope. Once I got the scope zeroed at 100yd., I used the FDAC for the long range steel. Temp = 30 degrees F, altitude was 7,700 so I used the 8,000' DA settings. I got a first round hit on a bowling-pin sized steel target at 600yds. and a second round hit (missed by a few inches high) at 1,010yds. The drops for the 450yd and 550yd targets were right on too.

I was shooting SW Ammunition's 175gr. .308 SMK match ammo, with average chronographed MV of 2,550 fps. (which I thought was slow, but that's for another thread. Temp?) out of a Bartlein barrel. I used no electronic ballistics calculator.

My only gripe is (and it's my fault) that I bought the one in meters, all the targets at this range are listed in yards so I have to do a conversion and the ranges don't come out at exactly 50yd increments....I need to get one in yards...anyone want to trade?
wink.gif
 
#41
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

Meters?? Yards?? Crap.
I just ordered one off their web. There was no option for yards or meters, just one item that could be ordered.
I assumed yards, as the picture showed yards.
The info is somewhat limited. I have heard that it ships with several cards based on fps, but the website does not really explain this.
I hope I did not make a mistake.
 
#42
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

I bought it from them in person. Mine came with 5 cards, one each for 2,500, 2,550, 2,600, 2,650 and 2,700 fps. MIL on one side, MOA on the other. You can get them in meters or yards for the distances...I got meters.
 
#43
Re: Adaptive's FDAC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Perhaps you plan to carry an outdoor thermometer with you? </div></div>

I have used the FDAC 308 out to 1000-yards using known altitude from a topo map, and one of those small key-chain style thermometers that I have attached to my Triad Data Book.

My hits are always within 0.2-mils of what my FDAC tells me.
 
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