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Advanced Sniper Rifle Solicitation
- Thread starter DavidK
- Start date
Honestly, Rem should have never got the contract. The AI rifle was better and so was the ballista. No one actually knows the exact reason the deliveries stopped. The fifth shipment was cancelled and never made public as to why. But part of the new solicitation was switching to Norma and dumping 300 WM and 338 Lapua.
It's a complicated story but overall SOCOM and Big Green agreed to just part ways with the contract terminated. When you fuck up like Remington did there are no second chances. They royally screwed the guys out in the field and also many builders associated with the project with the tactics they pulled behind the scenes. Like having to sue in order to get paid kinda crap (and that's the least of it).
What's being said about the AI Comp trigger scares me a bit.
When I received mine, sear engagement was not correct. Too little sear engagement. I initially did not touch the sear adjustment as the manual claims it is perfect from the factory. Try as I might adjusting spring tension, I could not get the trigger above a mushy, vague 10oz total, I couldn't tell the stages apart. It was obvious I had to change sear engagement or return the trigger for service, as it clearly was not set up right.
I had to fidget with it for hours before I got a good pull and consistent, stable sear engagement. I would say the weight adjustment and sear engagement adjustment are very highly coupled on this trigger, I would not adjust weight without readjusting sear engagement based on the included instructions. In many instances putting too much or too little 2nd stage spring tensions will cause sear slip or no sear engagement.
I've tuned it to 28 ounces 2 stage, probably about half half. Honestly this is about as light as I'd want a trigger to be. The pull feels great, the 2nd stage wall is very clear, the break is good but not as great as Geissele Hi Speed Match. I've live fired 40 rounds and dry fired about 150 times. I've also smacked it every which way with a 4 lb dead blow. I hope it does not fail.
Everything Jason Schauble touched pretty much goes to shit... Remington Defense, Tracking Point, Silencerco...
When Remington swapped the barrels for their in house stuff they no longer met the accuracy requirement and thus the contract was canceled. Bunch of morons, always looking to get the most $$$ with least amount of QC, a good brand was bought out by some venture capitalists and run into the ground.
Edited to add that when you sell stuff to the .gov wether the DOD or DLA its gets tested and goes through an acceptance testing based on lots etc and if something doesn't live up to the spec or standard laid out in the solicitation or statement of work then the gov cuts its losses.
When Remington swapped the barrels for their in house stuff they no longer met the accuracy requirement and thus the contract was canceled. Bunch of morons, always looking to get the most $$$ with least amount of QC, a good brand was bought out by some venture capitalists and run into the ground.
Edited to add that when you sell stuff to the .gov wether the DOD or DLA its gets tested and goes through an acceptance testing based on lots etc and if something doesn't live up to the spec or standard laid out in the solicitation or statement of work then the gov cuts its losses.
I briefly got to talk with one of the lead engineers for Remington Defense who did most of the design on the MSR, he was a great guy but moved on pretty fast after the contract was awarded. I got the feeling they did a custom team of good people to get the rifle the award, then Remington corporate seemed to step in and take over. I got the impression the final round was between the MSR and the M10.
I have one of the Blaser PSR submissions, at least the stock part of it, and it was an interesting chassis but it was very much a prototype commissioned by SIG and built in the USA. Solid, but ridiculously heavy (all aluminum) with some sharp edges. Was going to do a video on it to let everyone see how it worked.
When I read the original PSR list of requirements it didn't seem to have anything about barrel / caliber interchangeability or anything about a folding stock, etc. In fact I think they didn't even call out a caliber at all. Does anyone have a link to the ASR requirements?
Hard to believe it's already 10 years later.......
I have one of the Blaser PSR submissions, at least the stock part of it, and it was an interesting chassis but it was very much a prototype commissioned by SIG and built in the USA. Solid, but ridiculously heavy (all aluminum) with some sharp edges. Was going to do a video on it to let everyone see how it worked.
When I read the original PSR list of requirements it didn't seem to have anything about barrel / caliber interchangeability or anything about a folding stock, etc. In fact I think they didn't even call out a caliber at all. Does anyone have a link to the ASR requirements?
Hard to believe it's already 10 years later.......
Advanced Sniper Rifle (ASR) H92222-18-R-0004
Federal Contract Opportunity for Advanced Sniper Rifle (ASR) H92222-18-R-0004. The NAICS Category is 332994 - Small Arms, Ordnance, and Ordnance Accessories Manufacturing. Posted Nov 2, 2017. Due Nov 24, 2017. Posted by the US Special Operations Command (DOD). The work will be performed at 300...
govtribe.com
I have mine at xstp right now being tuned.
Will give it one more chance.
Please report back once you have over 1k dry fires and several hundred rounds. Just curious if your sear adjustments hold up.
In general, it seems too finicky for a field trigger. If it can be tweaked once and then reliable, that’s fine. But constant tweaking is a no go for me.
While there are liability concerns, if you’re going to make a trigger that has multiple user adjustments and they all require sear tuning after, you’ve got to come out with better instructions or a video.
Have you dropped yours fairly hard straight down on the butt?
Any trigger I own I can beat on with dead blow and it doesn’t fire. They almost all will when dropped on the butt at the right angle though.
Oh yeah, lots of them deployed.
Basically the barrels would hold up for a bit then just go to shit. Guys complaining left and right about accuracy issues. Remington was playing clueless, but they really knew what the problem was. Too bad they burned all of those bridges that could have resolved the problem. Wether or not they even asked, no clue.
Basically Remington can't de-stress a hammer-forged barrel worth a damn it turns out.
What will happen to the current units deployed? Not really sure honestly.
I think many people always have these perceptions about the gov contracts that have to do with reliability or testing, etc. when it mostly comes down to politics. Other than that my perception of the PSR was that Blaser had the whole caliber / barrel interchangeability thing down from the beginning (pre PSR contract) and other companies knew SIG would try and leverage that so many other companies had to follow suit. SIG didn't have a folder so they needed to get that in there. By then end everyone had a interchangeable barrel folder even though none of it was asked for by the actual contract.
Not sure how Barret won the ASR with that rifle, but who knows?
I know some are still out. Had 6 snipers from Bragg shoot in my squad last month. 1 had an MSR. Such a good looking rifle. Too bad they shoot like shit.
Side note: One of the other guys had his issued S&B shit out. Zero would constantly drop 1.5 mils. He rezeroed twice during the match. He probably hit 8 targets all day. I felt bad.
Side note: One of the other guys had his issued S&B shit out. Zero would constantly drop 1.5 mils. He rezeroed twice during the match. He probably hit 8 targets all day. I felt bad.
I might have missed it but did they even test the m10 this time around or just the ax with a shitty trigger.
I understand the politics and how there are deals done for odd reasons, like 500$ hammers paying for delta or the stealth bomber.
Or if they choose a piece of shit to begin with.
But going back on a contract that puts guys who are already getting tore up in some shithole country with a weapon system that is not the same as tested... that’s fucked up.
I understand the politics and how there are deals done for odd reasons, like 500$ hammers paying for delta or the stealth bomber.
Or if they choose a piece of shit to begin with.
But going back on a contract that puts guys who are already getting tore up in some shithole country with a weapon system that is not the same as tested... that’s fucked up.
Cigars and Scotch at some gentleman's club I'm pretty sure...
Thanks for the info! Do you if those stay within SOCOM or do they sit in a DoD warehouse somewhere waiting for the end of the world?
Yeah, they did. M10 made it to the end of phase 1 from what I am told. I can't remember what the failure was.
They treat these submissions like absolute shit. Throwing them like a spear is the light-side of the testing - it gets much worse!
I've only had this TRG M10 for about 3 weeks and have only been able to take it out once due to a Tangent Theta failure, but the ergonomics are absolutely amazing. The trigger, for a battle proven precision rifle, top notch. The whole system is just well thought out! With saying that, I'll always have a soft spot for my AI's as I feel it's almost equal in most areas.
Hi,
NOT that it has any bearing on the ASR but in regards to the PSR you mentioning with the Blaser....
There were several issues with the Blaser.
1. It did not hold the vertical accuracy requirements at 1500.
2. They (Blaser) through a huge temper tantrum (Mainly due to that prototype stock you mentioned) when revision came out that each manufacturer was to supply their own firing fixture. So much of a tantrum that it pretty much X'ed them off the entire solicitation.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
More than likely because (IIRC) the M10 was never tested during the PSR solicitation with the 300NM and 338NM as the ASR requirements because the PSR requirements were more about the 300WM and 338LM instead of the NM's.
Sincerely,
Theis
The more I read this thread the more I find myself looking at rifles at MHSA and Eurooptic I can't afford right now.
Lol!
Your not alone.
Some of the stuff they did to the ASR is making my pants tight.
Offset ergo grip to make it more vertical,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,me likey!
Years ago when I bought my AXMC, I was getting hot for the Sako as well. I was pretty certain i was gonna like it. Wish they’d just pull their heads out and offer the barrel extensions easily.
I currently have Shilen 2-6oz. competition trigger (I have it set to 6oz) in my Mk13 Mod5 build and have done everything shy of run it over and have yet to have the trigger go off unintentionally. I've buttstroked walls and dropped it all over the place. Nothing.
What are you talking about? You were the one saying they need to drop rifles with upgraded triggers from shoulder height or hit them with hammers to make sure they don't go off, now I'm telling you there a 2-6oz. option that passes your stipulations.
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Any word if it was the AI competition trigger or if it was the new AXSR trigger?
It was a variant of the competition trigger... not the exact same. Can't make a comparison really - stuff gets worked over a massaged generously versus an off-the-shelf unit.
Could have swore @NoLegs24 and I talked about this already in another thread that it was exactly a comp trigger but could very well be wrong...I just had twins and am more sleep deprived now than I ever was in the army lol. I must be mistaken I can't find where I thought it was mentioned
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The 3 off the shelf comp triggers I’ve owned and all failed repeatedly says that you can definitely compare them. ?
Nothing I haven’t put my factory AI, hubers, and triggertechs through. I’m pretty rough on my gear, but not to the point it’s abusive.
None of the 3 triggers made it past 500rnds. One of them the only thing I did was take the first stage adjustment out to make it a single stage (verified with manufacturer/designer this was proper way).
2 of the 3 were sent back to the manufacturer/designer/owner who personally adjusted them on their in house jig. Both failed immediately upon return in two different rifles (swapped bolts, rifles, triggers, you name it), without me doing any adjustments of my own.
On top of that, I’ve known of at least 5 (I believe more, but I can recall 5) other AI owners who also had failures with the comp trigger and went back to factory triggers.
I’ve heard of many people having zero issues and that’s awesome. But for me, when the guy who designed/manufactures them can’t adjust even 1 out of 2 I send in to not fail immediately, it’s not worth it for me.
Oh yeah, understandable there. I've got about 600 or so on one of them and it's holding together at the moment. Been keeping an eye on it for signs different than normal. I never had any particular negative experience with the factory triggers myself so going back to them on a few of my AI's wouldn't be a problem if the time comes. Sucks though. CG-X has made/co-developed some solid products in the past.
600 may sound like a lot, mine took a shit after 700-800. Old trigger has well over 6000, now closer to 8000 with 223 conversion and 300wsm after testing days. Hell my 223 had 600 after 1 week. All the south Texas guys dumped them. They all failed, I know people say “mine lasted forever”. Well apparently our dirt ruins those fancy triggers. Yet all the guys factory triggers are doing just fine. There was at one point 12-15 triggers in the group...then fire sales started popping up.
as for CG-X...Mod 22 broke the seat after 500rds of the ever brutal 22LR...in my Vudoo, to much power ??
600 may sound like a lot, mine took a shit after 700-800. Old trigger has well over 6000, now closer to 8000 with 223 conversion and 300wsm after testing days. Hell my 223 had 600 after 1 week. All the south Texas guys dumped them. They all failed, I know people say “mine lasted forever”. Well apparently our dirt ruins those fancy triggers. Yet all the guys factory triggers are doing just fine. There was at one point 12-15 triggers in the group...then fire sales started popping up.
as for CG-X...Mod 22 broke the seat after 500rds of the ever brutal 22LR...in my Vudoo, to much power ??
Glad you brought up the mod 22. Everyone loves them and I’m sure when they are set at the 3.5 (or whatever it is) the .mil contract requires them, they run fine. I also had a couple (also set up by owner). They didn’t totally fail, but they didn’t run as well as other reputable triggers.
Thus far, durability wise, the AI factory and triggertech diamond have been the most reliable for me. Of course any brand will have failures, but I rarely hear of either going down.
You can count me among those who've gone back to the factory trigger. I primarily went with the comp trigger so I could have a single stage, but when set up that way, I don't trust the reliability. The factory trigger OTOH has been bombproof.
So as a kind of summary, where is this at in the testing/decision phase? I posted on this when it came out over a year ago, but was offline for about a month...twice, and didn't want to have to go back and re-read everything.
As an aside, on the most recent discussion in this thread about triggers, I can't understand when someone charges top dollar for a trigger and it goes down. I would have expected the mating faces on a trigger to be hardened and polished for the prices one pays these days for a replacement trigger. That's one reason the military will ALWAYS mandate a higher poundage on triggers for anything military use.
For the record, I've never had a trigger go down. I realize that in some competitions the urge to lighten and smoothe a trigger leads to near benchrest levels of setting them. That won't work so well in a field environment. Just the nature of mechanical function.
As an aside, on the most recent discussion in this thread about triggers, I can't understand when someone charges top dollar for a trigger and it goes down. I would have expected the mating faces on a trigger to be hardened and polished for the prices one pays these days for a replacement trigger. That's one reason the military will ALWAYS mandate a higher poundage on triggers for anything military use.
For the record, I've never had a trigger go down. I realize that in some competitions the urge to lighten and smoothe a trigger leads to near benchrest levels of setting them. That won't work so well in a field environment. Just the nature of mechanical function.
Thanks....I thought while I waited for an answer that maybe I should go back and do some due diligence and read the thread. I saw that on page five back in March. D'oh!
For some dumb reason, I stopped getting alerts on this thread. I get 'em on others.
In any case, what is the consensus so far on the MRAD?
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