Looking for a new scope. I have a razor gen 2 with EBR 7c on my 7mm SAUM currently. With my corrected vision I have trouble with optics that have a grid reticle. It's all a blur for me. I'm looking at going with an ATACR with the Mil-r reticle. Or the bender pm2. Can't remember the reticle name on the bender but it was similar to the Mil-r from Nightforce. I also have an old NXS 5.5-22 with standard mil dot reticle that I love. Simple. Easy. And it's just for south Texas hunting. No competition that won't allow you to dial on certain stages. My question.. is a Bender worth the $1200 more than the ATACR? since I'm used to second focal plane should I just strap another old school NXS for half the price? Opinions. I've got an open mind so tell me what the professionals think
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Advice. ATACR vs bender PM2
- Thread starter STXLeroy
- Start date
Best bet is to take a look through each scope. If your have trouble with a "grid" reticle stick to SFP.
As try as i may to leave her... I always keep coming back to Bender. First love woes I guess.
For what it is worth I own a S&B 5-25x56 PM2, a NF 5.5-22x56 NXS and a NF 7-35x56 ATACR. For me my favorite scope is the ATACR hands down. To the point I'm buying another ATACR for another rifle. The ATACR is in my opinion the best glass and best turrets. I still use the other scopes and won't sell them though. At the end of the day I would try to look through all of them myself and make an informed decision that way. Whatever you choose they will all be very good quality and reliable. Good luck mate.
ZCO has entered the chat . . .
Have owned the NXS and currently have a couple ATACR. I use the 4-16 Atacr on my AI AT for hunting and absolutely love it. Bought the 7-35 for my long range rig AI AXMC.
They have second focal atacr. If you have issues with the reticle that may be a good option.
Otherwise ATACR gets my vote. The 4-16 is a bad ass hunting scope. I use mine for crop damage all summer. Shooting does. Mostly inside 500 yards with this setup
Locking elevation and capped windage is what my ATACR have
They have second focal atacr. If you have issues with the reticle that may be a good option.
Otherwise ATACR gets my vote. The 4-16 is a bad ass hunting scope. I use mine for crop damage all summer. Shooting does. Mostly inside 500 yards with this setup
Locking elevation and capped windage is what my ATACR have
I own both. Personally I think the glass on the S&B is better. But not $1200 better.
And you’re probably taking about the MSR reticle on the S&B. One of my favorite reticles. Can’t go wrong with either one of them though.
And you’re probably taking about the MSR reticle on the S&B. One of my favorite reticles. Can’t go wrong with either one of them though.
I prefer the glass on my S&B PMII, got rid of an ATACR that I had a couple years ago. I prefer the turrets on the S&B, though they have multiple options and they all feel different. I don’t like how the zoom on the NF turns the entire ocular housing either.
I'd probably try a mil-c if I were you. Better resale should you ever decide to switch things up. People seem to hate the mil-r (I don't think it's that bad, but I have 2 scopes with it a 4-16 and a 2.5-10).
Nothing wrong with the NXS, there are great deals out there on them, but most of them are SFP, and if you are open to SFP, you can probably find a nice deal on a SFP ATACR with MIL-R because I don't think that combo is very popular.
Obviously S&B makes a nice scope, but they seem to cost quite a bit more than a 5-25 ATACR and I'm not sure that they are "better" than the ATACR.
Leupold mark 5 with a TMR might be another good option. There is/was a 7-35 TMR on ebay for $1500, including mount, which is a crazy deal.
Nothing wrong with the NXS, there are great deals out there on them, but most of them are SFP, and if you are open to SFP, you can probably find a nice deal on a SFP ATACR with MIL-R because I don't think that combo is very popular.
Obviously S&B makes a nice scope, but they seem to cost quite a bit more than a 5-25 ATACR and I'm not sure that they are "better" than the ATACR.
Leupold mark 5 with a TMR might be another good option. There is/was a 7-35 TMR on ebay for $1500, including mount, which is a crazy deal.
If you could just get the Mil-C reticle on a S&B, then we’d be cooking. Personally prefer the S&B glass over the ATACR (warmth / contrast like Swarovski EL’s), but think 7-35 is about the prefect power.
I’ll be honest, that’s a major issue for me. It may be something minor to others, but that’s what holds me back from buying a NF scope.
I have owned everything out there, and for what you can get a used S&B for it can't be beat. I was not impressed with the Nightforce glass one bit but everyones eyes are different.
This is the truth. It’s been a debate for like 10 years now, pm2 or nightforce, and pm2 is the better scope. And getting a slightly used s&b mtc is probably the best deal out there or even a new old DT style.
I’ve had three PMIIs at once…so I guess I kind of know what I’m talking about…but roll them eyes…it isn’t worth an extra $1000+ over an ATACR…no way.
Oh you had 3 pm2’s………. Oh lord I would be so impressed if I didn’t have 5 S&Bs at the same time I had a Nightforce beast and a atacr lol, so “I guess I know what I’m talking about”
Nightforce glass is not as good as s&b, period. Track record and reliability and better glass is why Schmidt was more expensive and yes it is worth it. And besides you can forget the more expensive argument because a slightly used pm2 is a hands down better buy than an atacr.
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False.
I had one Ultra Short go down. 0 ATACRs…
PMII US’s parallax didn’t survive a SCAR…ATACR no problems.
It’s all assembled by humans so reliability is as good as the person installing the components.
I do miss those MTC turrets though.
I had one Ultra Short go down. 0 ATACRs…
PMII US’s parallax didn’t survive a SCAR…ATACR no problems.
It’s all assembled by humans so reliability is as good as the person installing the components.
I do miss those MTC turrets though.
The old school 5-25 PMII with double turrets are still my favorite scopes.
I'm going to be switching from my Tangent back to a 3-27 S&B
I'm going to be switching from my Tangent back to a 3-27 S&B
In brand new, the S&B Pricing is too close to what gets you the next step up.
In used, it's very hard to beat what the S&B 5-25 x56 bring to the table for the price. If you want a clean, uncluttered reticle, the P4FL is a great reticle for medium to higher magnification ranges, or if you will mostly be in the 5x to 10x range, the P4 reticle.
You are going to need to go to the March, ZCO or TT range to be better than the classic S&B 5-25 x56
In used, it's very hard to beat what the S&B 5-25 x56 bring to the table for the price. If you want a clean, uncluttered reticle, the P4FL is a great reticle for medium to higher magnification ranges, or if you will mostly be in the 5x to 10x range, the P4 reticle.
You are going to need to go to the March, ZCO or TT range to be better than the classic S&B 5-25 x56
So you had 1 s&b go down and 0 nightforces go down so you think you can come on here and say nightforces are more reliable..? I mean okay so how do you explain that I’ve never seen a Schmidt go down at a match but I’ve seen a handful of nightforces go down???
And I’m not even saying Schmidt is way more reliable than nightforces, nightforce is one of the best and most reliable scopes in the world and they are both pretty close in reliability, but it’s silly to say you think nightforce is more reliable because you had one problem with a Schmidt and not your nightforce when there are plenty of others who could say the opposite.
If getting one used you can find them around the same price. I think the glass on the Schmidt does edge out the ATACR but not $1200 more. I prefer the Mil-C to the Mil-R reticle. For Schmidt the MSR would be very similar. I do like the gen 2 xr though. It is the most minimal tree I have seen.
Dude. Your reading comprehension sucks. Never claimed reliability
You threw out how reliable PMIIs are like they never break. THEY DO!
My experience happened. Deal with it.
I don’t think it’s invalid for me to say that I had a PMII go down when an ATACR hadn’t on the same platform…
My original response to the OP was regarding glass. I personally do not see a huge glass difference between ATACR and PMIIs…def not $1000+ difference. Especially not with the 7-35 and 4-16 ATACR…heck my older TARS103 had better down range clarity than my 3-20 Ultra Short…especially in the CA department.
Calm down. It’s ok to disagree. It’s ok to be subjective. It’s ok not to be cool-aid brand drinker. Trust me. It is. Try it. Mileage will vary.
Both SB, NF and other high end optics makers stand behind their product after the sale which what matters the most.
Where the hell did I indicate that pm2’s “never break” it seems you are the one with a reading problem.I said they are reliable and have a track record of reliability which they 100% do, that in no way means I said they wouldnt ever have problems, what company in this industry or any industry have produced a product without one issue ever? It’s pretty much impossible. I said s&b are reliable and have a proven track record and they DO, every word I said is true so what exactly was “false” with what I said? You took it upon yourself to think something completely ridiculous that I indicated anywhere that nobody has ever had a problem with their Schmidt or ever would, that’s ridiculous and nowhere was that even close to implied.
I have never been a fan of S&B.
I have 5 Atacr’s and they are all amazing. MilC is a great reticle that keeps the eye clear.
Also the ZCO MPT1 reticle is great as well.
I have 5 Atacr’s and they are all amazing. MilC is a great reticle that keeps the eye clear.
Also the ZCO MPT1 reticle is great as well.
When I bought my first AI I bought both a PM2 and ATACR from the classifieds on here. I shot them both and my eyes preferred the ATACR. So I sold the S&B. Everyone's eyes will be slightly different, but they were very close and without being side by side I don't think I would care which one I had.
Why don’t you ask someone knowledgable what brand has more failures ?
and lol I had a 5-25 and a 5-45. Bender glass isn’t better than Nightforce.
Clearly that knowledgeable isn’t you, and nightforce has more failures lol. Bender glass is 100% the better glass, it’s been discussed on here for almost 10 years. Thousands of posts, thousands of votes on poles, bender glass wins every time time by like 80%+ percent of the votes.
And I’ve owned way more Schmidt’s and nightforces than you so..
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80% of the time it's 100% better. The other 20% of the time it's 100% worse.
How many of those votes owned both side by side. I've bought both and looked at them side by side and my eye liked the ATACR. So I fall in the 20%
To me they are so close there really isn't a benefit of one over another, but I kept the Nightforce and sold the S&B to buy more ATACR 's.
How many of those votes owned both side by side. I've bought both and looked at them side by side and my eye liked the ATACR. So I fall in the 20%
To me they are so close there really isn't a benefit of one over another, but I kept the Nightforce and sold the S&B to buy more ATACR 's.
Quite a bit has changed in the last 10 years in this industry, even just the past 5 years...
If 80% (and more) of people think something is better, it is 100% better.
A lot people back 5 years ago and further were trying to convince themselves that their nightforce glass was 100% as good as Schmidt or better because they couldn’t afford the extra money for the Schmidt, so they tried to make themselves feel like they had the best. (Let the crying and hate rain down for that comment, idc it’s true
)And others said “their eyes like nightforce better”. I mean okay.. if you want to have that opinion then fine, but it’s not better I’m sorry. And like I said in regards you you first sentence, if 80% of people say something is better over thousands and thousands of posts, it is better.
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This reticle you talk about is the P4FL. I have this one but would love to have their GRID reticle instead. Probably going to list my S&B after our last match later this month. The S&B's clarity is way better than the ATACR 5-25 and slightly better than the 7-35. The 7-35 has the edge because of it's higher zoom. I hated my ATACR 5-25 and many of NF's eyepieces that fully rotates. I used Tenebraex scope covers and they don't fold down flat so so the cover would always get in the way when zooming in our out that I just started leaving it off. Selling the ATACR funded my S&B.
