Advice needs: 12.5, 14.5, 16

[D-minus-a2]

Okay guys, I know there is a ton of info out there regarding barrel length. At this point I am suffering from paralysis by analysis and it’s making me crazy. Lol. I am looking for any opinions or insights from people more knowledgeable then myself.

background:
I currently have 12.5 bcm upper and 16 (mid length) bcm upper. I recently started new job and had first child and am very busy and not shooting as much. I always like the appeal of a “do it all” ar (I know there is no such thing.) I have my 16 set up with pst 1-6 and 12.5 with eotech. I came to the realization that with me shooting less I want to train with one specific rifle my “go to” if you will. I am a sucker for velocity and recently purchased a 14.5 thinking I would make this my rifle. I do have 30 cal can that I run and will be pinning flash hider on the 14.5. My challenge is deciding if I should get rid of the 16” or the 12.5. Initially I considered setting up 16” with 2-10 and making it a more dmr type rifle. That being said I do live in PNW outside of urban area, where it is pretty heavily wooded. Hard to find places to stretch guns out past 500.

current thought process:

16”
pros: velocity, I know it’s only 1.5 inches longer than 14.5 but my understanding is it’s a pretty sizable jump. If I were to keep it I would put a 2-10 on it and the 1-6 on the 14.5. (Also would keep eotech and likely run both on the 14.5)

cons: very similar to 14.5 but would obviously be set up for different purpose. 16 is long with a can.

12.5
Pros: better suppressed. It could easily do what the 14.5 or 16 could do for that matter with the advantage of more maneuverability.

Cons: pistol brace/sbr laws. Less velocity.
As stated before I am a sucker for velocity and want the most effective round down range.

final thoughts: at any point in time you could talk me into getting rid of any of them. Also easy to convince me to keep all 3. At this point I want a go to rifle and to have a back up. (2 is 1 and 1 is none). Should I keep 16 or the 12.5.

Any thoughts, insights or opinions welcomed and appreciated. Thanks guys

 

[Napeequa55]

Just stick with your 12.5. The 16 with a can is not practical for home defense etc. If you're concerned about effectiveness of the round from a 12.5" keep the 16 as dmr, swap your 12.5" to a cartridge that likes short barrels and increases energy on target like 6.8 spc

 

[db2000]

^^^ yep

 

[drewthebrave]

Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to buy something you don't really need... You already have the perfect combo, in my opinion.

12.5" is perfect for CQB and HD with a red dot. Just add your suppressor and mount a quality light, and it'll be 100% good to go. Many people rely on 10.3" for this role, so you already have more velocity with your 12.5". 12.5" is more capable than you might expect at range with quality ammo (77gr Mk262 expands well to 250+ yards).

The 16" is already set up for intermediate range shooting with your 1-6x. With quality ammo, you should have no trouble reaching out past 500 yards effectively. There is a reason the Recce rifle is so popular today - with an accurate 16" barrel, it can be put to effective use in almost any role.

For what it's worth, I have an 11.5" for CQB/HD, a mid-weight 14.7" for my do-it-all rifle, and a heavy 18" SPR for target shooting & hunting from a tripod. Your 12.5" fits the same role as my 11.5" but with an extra inch for more velocity. Your 16" splits the difference between my 14.7" and 18" without giving up much to either (except a lot less weight than my SPR).

If you just want an excuse to buy/build a new rig, then by all means go for it. But I don't see any shortcomings in what you already have!

 

[thedude824]

Ive got a 10.5", 12.5", and two 16" rifles in 556. Im building a 14.5" currently as a "go-to". Im also using much more expensive components, trigger, higher quality scope (Vortex Razor 1-10x) and a much higher quality barrel. All of my rifles are carbine or pistol gas and shooting a friend's 14.5" with midlength gas was impressive despite mil spec buffer set up. I wanted something similar to you. Reviewing ballistics and trajectory it seems like the 14.5" will do everything a 16" will do within 400 - 500 yards with just a bit more drop using 77 grain SMK. The 14.5" with suppressor doesn't feel too much more cumbersome than the 12.5", but is close to 200fps faster. To be honest, if I didn't have so much 556 I would drop the 12.5" and 16" guns and stick with my 8" 300blk out for 100 yards and in. The logistics reinforce my attachment and refusal to part with any of them.
If you're willing to upgrade some other things, like buffer system, barrel quality, trigger quality, I would go for it. If you're going to build comparable set ups I dont see enough real world value. This is just my opinion of course.

 

[nn8734]

Okay guys, I know there is a ton of info out there regarding barrel length. At this point I am suffering from paralysis by analysis and it’s making me crazy. Lol. I am looking for any opinions or insights from people more knowledgeable then myself.

background:
I currently have 12.5 bcm upper and 16 (mid length) bcm upper. I recently started new job and had first child and am very busy and not shooting as much. I always like the appeal of a “do it all” ar (I know there is no such thing.) I have my 16 set up with pst 1-6 and 12.5 with eotech. I came to the realization that with me shooting less I want to train with one specific rifle my “go to” if you will. I am a sucker for velocity and recently purchased a 14.5 thinking I would make this my rifle. I do have 30 cal can that I run and will be pinning flash hider on the 14.5. My challenge is deciding if I should get rid of the 16” or the 12.5. Initially I considered setting up 16” with 2-10 and making it a more dmr type rifle. That being said I do live in PNW outside of urban area, where it is pretty heavily wooded. Hard to find places to stretch guns out past 500.

current thought process:

16”
pros: velocity, I know it’s only 1.5 inches longer than 14.5 but my understanding is it’s a pretty sizable jump. If I were to keep it I would put a 2-10 on it and the 1-6 on the 14.5. (Also would keep eotech and likely run both on the 14.5)

cons: very similar to 14.5 but would obviously be set up for different purpose. 16 is long with a can.

12.5
Pros: better suppressed. It could easily do what the 14.5 or 16 could do for that matter with the advantage of more maneuverability.

Cons: pistol brace/sbr laws. Less velocity.
As stated before I am a sucker for velocity and want the most effective round down range.

final thoughts: at any point in time you could talk me into getting rid of any of them. Also easy to convince me to keep all 3. At this point I want a go to rifle and to have a back up. (2 is 1 and 1 is none). Should I keep 16 or the 12.5.

Any thoughts, insights or opinions welcomed and appreciated. Thanks guys

Lol, you’re right about analysis paralysis. This is very simple. If the use case is home/self defense, your 12.5” will do everything better than your 14.5 and 16. For longer shots, swap to your 16” upper.

I run a 14.5 URGI suppressed as my do it all but if I had to make that choice today, I’d do a 11.5 or 12.5 and my Mk12 would fulfill the lite DMR role

 

[rlsmith1]

I'll throw another option out there. Sell it all and start over. You could likely build a quality rifle with great accessories if you sold all 3, and built a 13.9" with a pinned flash hider (Dead Air).

If you don't have a Dead Air can and your suppressor mount will only bring a 14.5" to legal length then by all means keep the 14.5" or start over with a high quality barrel (Criterion, Krieger, Bartlein, etc.)

With the money left over buy a few hundred rounds and shoot when you can. If you absolutely need a backup, keep one of the lowers and buy / build a budget upper in 6-12 months when funds allow again.

ETA: the difference between 14.5" and 16" is nice but the difference between a 13.9" and 16" is more appreciable than I thought. Only reason I pinned the 13.9" is because if I used it in a sticky situation, I'd like to stand before a judge saying I used a legal weapon and I don't want to pay the tyranny tax.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

I have a 10.5 ar pistol w/ brace in 5.56 that is fine and runs great but if I had to grab one and go I would probably grab the tavor. Full length barrel, short package even with supressor, accurate enough for work out to 300+

 

[TheGerman]

11.5 masterrace checking in

 

[bfoosh006]

If you have to... ditch the 16" ( other wise keep it for any anti shorter than 16" barrel laws that might be coming down the pike )

While you do get more velocity... are you really going to take shots at that 16"s extended range ?

 

[Clayman]

I don't know who the credit goes to for this graph but this should give you an idea of velocities with certain rounds and barrel lengths.

Imo 12.5 mid length with a suppressor is a phenomenal set up.

 

[Napeequa55]

I'll throw another option out there. Sell it all and start over. You could likely build a quality rifle with great accessories if you sold all 3, and built a 13.9" with a pinned flash hider (Dead Air).

With the money left over buy a few hundred rounds and shoot when you can. If you absolutely need a backup, keep one of the lowers and buy / build a budget upper in 6-12 months when funds allow again.

Disagree. If the world ended tomorrow you'll be very glad you had two rifles, not one "flex" rifle with fanboy parts and a high end barrel that will get you marginally better accuracy from benchrest.

Anyone with an AR needs two.

Replace one or the other if you mist change but nobody should ever downsize from two.

 

[db2000]

Just build another one

 

[6.5SH]

Just build another one
View attachment 7721323

Upgrade something, hmm left over parts, I can build another rifle, repeat.

The cycle of AR life.

 

[db2000]

Upgrade something, hmm left over parts, I can build another rifle, repeat.

The cycle of AR life.

Don’t build with parts you want to replace

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

11.5 masterrace checking in

Everytime “TheGerman” says “masterrace” I at their 0-1 record.

Not sure if that’s what you were doing. But that’s what I read.

 

[6.5SH]

LoL it never seems to work out that way with usable parts. I know people who have given away perfectly good parts because they KNEW they would make it into another AR.

 

[aslrookie]

11.5 masterrace checking in

X2. Only barrel length you need in 5.56. Regardless of barrel length, that 22cal bullet still loses a lot of energy down range anyway. Might as well have a compact setup.

 

[6.5SH]

X2. Only barrel length you need in 5.56. Regardless of barrel length, that 22cal bullet still loses a lot of energy down range anyway. Might as well have a compact setup.

Also yes, but let's be honest on why 11.5"

 

[AngryKoala]

Okay guys, I know there is a ton of info out there regarding barrel length. At this point I am suffering from paralysis by analysis and it’s making me crazy. Lol. I am looking for any opinions or insights from people more knowledgeable then myself.

background:
I currently have 12.5 bcm upper and 16 (mid length) bcm upper. I recently started new job and had first child and am very busy and not shooting as much. I always like the appeal of a “do it all” ar (I know there is no such thing.) I have my 16 set up with pst 1-6 and 12.5 with eotech. I came to the realization that with me shooting less I want to train with one specific rifle my “go to” if you will. I am a sucker for velocity and recently purchased a 14.5 thinking I would make this my rifle. I do have 30 cal can that I run and will be pinning flash hider on the 14.5. My challenge is deciding if I should get rid of the 16” or the 12.5. Initially I considered setting up 16” with 2-10 and making it a more dmr type rifle. That being said I do live in PNW outside of urban area, where it is pretty heavily wooded. Hard to find places to stretch guns out past 500.

current thought process:

16”
pros: velocity, I know it’s only 1.5 inches longer than 14.5 but my understanding is it’s a pretty sizable jump. If I were to keep it I would put a 2-10 on it and the 1-6 on the 14.5. (Also would keep eotech and likely run both on the 14.5)

cons: very similar to 14.5 but would obviously be set up for different purpose. 16 is long with a can.

12.5
Pros: better suppressed. It could easily do what the 14.5 or 16 could do for that matter with the advantage of more maneuverability.

Cons: pistol brace/sbr laws. Less velocity.
As stated before I am a sucker for velocity and want the most effective round down range.

final thoughts: at any point in time you could talk me into getting rid of any of them. Also easy to convince me to keep all 3. At this point I want a go to rifle and to have a back up. (2 is 1 and 1 is none). Should I keep 16 or the 12.5.

Any thoughts, insights or opinions welcomed and appreciated. Thanks guys

Keep your uppers and build a ambi lower (if you don't already have one) swap uppers as needed. Keep some spare parts for your lower and uppers.

 

[D-minus-a2]

Thanks for all the input, probably gonna keep all three uppers. I have two complete ambi Lowers from adm currently. imo they are the best on the market. I think they run 800 now which is too much. I picked them up when they were 650 with a discount. As a lefty they are great and you can run them really fast. That being said all I need is one Gucci lower. Gonna sell the other and probably get a basic Areo lower. That will be my compromise. maybe a rifle lower for the 16 and put an a1 stock on it. My plan for the uppers eotech on 12.5, 1-6 on 14.5 and maybe a 2.5-10 on 16. Who knows. Thanks again for all the input. What are your thoughts on an a1 stock on rifle buffer for the 16 bcm? I’m torn. Rifle buffer on the 16” middy could be buttery smooth but might look weird with fixed stock on full length mcmr rail.

 

[6.5SH]

Honestly if using any sort of armor, LBE or in a place that has seasons and you alter layers of clothing, stay with a carbine tube and adjustable stock.

The only real reason for an A1 is nostalgia.

 

[D-minus-a2]

I agree, the rifle buffer is appealing but I think it’s a looks thing too.

 

[PBWalsh]

The Vltor A5 buffer system is what you seek.

12.5” is my “do all“ rifle. The velocity loss from a 16” is worth it for the 4” shorter length.

 

[smcfarland]

Agree on the 11.5. If I could only have one rifle, it would be my 11.5 AR with its Surefire mini. Does everything I need it to “good enough”.

 

[rlsmith1]

Disagree. If the world ended tomorrow you'll be very glad you had two rifles, not one "flex" rifle with fanboy parts and a high end barrel that will get you marginally better accuracy from benchrest.

Anyone with an AR needs two.

Replace one or the other if you mist change but nobody should ever downsize from two.

Never said flex with fanboy parts. If that's what starting over and building something with quality parts means to you then guess I'm a fanboy (I never mentioned one brand, just gave examples). Seems like a lot of people own a handful of decent rifles when they really need one or two that are quality. OP said himself he doesn't get to shoot as much as he'd like so multiple rifles is even less needed. If you're running a few thousand rounds a month, then yeah it makes sense to have a few rifles in the event something goes down. And I didn't say only keep one forever, just get something that is what you want and add back later because I don't see the world ending in the next 6 months.

@TheGerman we are talking barrel lengths not erect lengths

 

[nn8734]

Agree on the 11.5. If I could only have one rifle, it would be my 11.5 AR with its Surefire mini. Does everything I need it to “good enough”.

Yep, the velocity loss between 16” and 11.5” is largely immaterial. Especially in self defense carbine is going to be used for threats 250m and applications where in like 99% of the time. It’d be a really unique situation where a shot beyond even 100m would be applicable. I also have a surefire mini - great little can, going to prob pick up another.

 

[Jigstick]

Sell both. Get an 11.5in upper and pin your suppressor mount to make it 15in. That will cover your SBR / home defense with a MK18 style upper

then get a 14.5 or 16in all purpose upper

 

[Clayman]

Sell both. Get an 11.5in upper and pin your suppressor mount to make it 15in. That will cover your SBR / home defense with a MK18 style upper

then get a 14.5 or 16in all purpose upper

11.5 with a 5" pinned brake/hider? That sounds absolutely stupid.

 

[thedude824]

Thanks for all the input, probably gonna keep all three uppers. I have two complete ambi Lowers from adm currently. imo they are the best on the market. I think they run 800 now which is too much. I picked them up when they were 650 with a discount. As a lefty they are great and you can run them really fast. That being said all I need is one Gucci lower. Gonna sell the other and probably get a basic Areo lower. That will be my compromise. maybe a rifle lower for the 16 and put an a1 stock on it. My plan for the uppers eotech on 12.5, 1-6 on 14.5 and maybe a 2.5-10 on 16. Who knows. Thanks again for all the input. What are your thoughts on an a1 stock on rifle buffer for the 16 bcm? I’m torn. Rifle buffer on the 16” middy could be buttery smooth but might look weird with fixed stock on full length mcmr rail.

I had the same thought process. Ive got an MRO on the 10.5" a Steiner PX4i on the 12.5" Razor 1-10x for the 14.5" and my old Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x on one of my 16" guns. You should consider the Vltor A5 with either the ACS or Vltor Emod for all the benefits of a rifle system plus adjustability for prone/armor

 

[Jigstick]

11.5 with a 5" pinned brake/hider? That sounds absolutely stupid.

A lot of suppressor mounts are roughly 3.5in long. There’s a lot of ballistic data moving away from the 10.5in length on the MK18. That extra inch of dwell time makes a difference. 11.5 - 11.7in barrels with pinned suppressor mounts gets you to an OAL of 16in and away from NFA territory. Nothing new here

 

[TonyTheTiger]

A lot of suppressor mounts are roughly 3.5in long. There’s a lot of ballistic data moving away from the 10.5in length on the MK18. That extra inch of dwell time makes a difference. 11.5 - 11.7in barrels with pinned suppressor mounts gets you to an OAL of 16in and away from NFA territory. Nothing new here

11.5"+3.5"= 16"?

Not to mention a muzzle device with a 3.5" oal will only add 3" ish to the barrel length.
Never heard of an undergassed 10.5" either.

 

[AngryKoala]

View attachment 7721787

11.5"+3.5"= 16"?

Not to mention a muzzle device with a 3.5" oal will only add 3" ish to the barrel length.
Never heard of an undergassed 10.5" either.

Come on man...maths

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Come on man...maths

I must not have made it to the advanced classes.

 

[Clayman]

A lot of suppressor mounts are roughly 3.5in long. There’s a lot of ballistic data moving away from the 10.5in length on the MK18. That extra inch of dwell time makes a difference. 11.5 - 11.7in barrels with pinned suppressor mounts gets you to an OAL of 16in and away from NFA territory. Nothing new here

 

[db2000]

3.5” suppressor mount pinned?!?

 

[hafejd30]

It’s simple if you really think about it…

 

[mgrs]

Best “one gun” is a high quality medium contour pinned 14.5”. No stamps or braces, no 5320.20s if you live near a state line….

If NFA did not exist, 11.5 all day.

 

[hafejd30]

After carrying a suppressed 10.5” SBR, CZ Scorpion and a couple other hosts of guns,

I currently carry a simple S&W MP15. Red dot with Magpul back up. Simple 16”, effective, lightweight, reliable and if it gets stolen or what not there’s no NFA items involved

 

[TonyTheTiger]

It’s simple if you really think about it…
View attachment 7721841

This was one of those times when you see something so blatantly wrong said so matter of factly that it makes you second guess yourself for just a fraction of a second.

 

[drewthebrave]

My plan for the uppers eotech on 12.5, 1-6 on 14.5 and maybe a 2.5-10 on 16. Who knows. Thanks again for all the input. What are your thoughts on an a1 stock on rifle buffer for the 16 bcm? I’m torn. Rifle buffer on the 16” middy could be buttery smooth but might look weird with fixed stock on full length mcmr rail.

Let's get back on track. I support this plan.

I recently picked up an EFX-A1 stock for $40, and have been really impressed with it. It fit perfectly on my SPR build. Here's my inspiration (18" barrel for reference):

 

[the monk]

Personally, if i was in your shoes, I would NFA the 12.5 and put a 1-6 on it. Then I would get a new hyper accurate barrel for the 16 with an awesome trigger, 2-10 or 3-18 optic (make it a DMR) and sell the 14.5.

If NFA was not an option I would sell the 12.5 and still DMR the 16 and make the 14.5 my main gun.

If I only wanted one gun, I agree with @mgrs I would do a 14.5 pinned with my muzzle device of choice and make sure it was a 1.5 moa shooter.

 

[Jdfd556]

12.5 with suppressor is what I would go with. It's my new favorite length, maneuverability is a big thing for me. If not going suppressed, 14.5 would be my go to unless you wanted a DMR, in which case I would go 16" with shorty can. 12.5 is also the shortest length that I like to run "k" cans on. Especially with BH 77gr TMK and the 12.5", you aren't really giving up much to the other lengths with regards to bc. See attached post for this.

Triarc 12.5 Mini RECCE Vs...

Kyle Rittenhouse had to fight with a weapon he had never held before that evening.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Leftie]

Another vote for 12.5" here. If I had to grab one rifle for most use cases, it would be a 12.5 with a variable optic, a suppressor, a visible light with acceptable output, and a quality round such as BH 77gr. I wouldn't get too hung up on velocity, as long as you understand the limitations of the rifle/round combination that you're using, and also the capabilities of your optics to squeeze performance from the rifle at near and far distances.

When you look at comparison charts for 10.3, 11.5, 12.5, 14.5, and 16" barrels respectively, 12.5" occupies a bit of a sweet spot as it relates to ease of maneuverability and capability, especially when adding in a suppressor to the mix.

 

[346ci]

12.5" ARP in .223W and 6.8 here. The 6.8 with a 5" can is perfect for deer.

Like a sore peter, hard to beat..

 

[JS8588]

Let's get back on track. I support this plan.

I recently picked up an EFX-A1 stock for $40, and have been really impressed with it. It fit perfectly on my SPR build. Here's my inspiration (18" barrel for reference):
View attachment 7723092

I purchased 6 of those when they were priced at $29.99/each. They're simply the best fixed stocks on the market. Yeah, they add a little weight, but they put the balance of most rifles rearward which makes them handle much better. The cheekweld on them is perfect. At the price, they're a no brainer. I prefer fixed stocks to adjustable. Ymmv etc