Rifle Scopes Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

[matt33]

I know threads like this pop up all the time, but I’m looking for some insight before I make my next optics purchase. I’m set on a mil/mil scope in the 5-22+ power range, but I can’t decide between a NF 5.5-22x mil/MLR highspeed zerostop, Premier 5-25x Gen2 XR, or the S&B 5-25x P4F .1 mil CCW. I do a lot of shooting that varies between 100 and 1,000 yards (hopefully beyond than 1,000 this year). My rifle is a TRG-22 which I plan on re-barreling to a .260 once my copious supply of .308 ammunition is exhausted. I’d also like to get involved in some match/competition shooting this year, but that’s something I know very little about.

I previously had a TMR equipped 6.5-20x Leupold MK4 which was nice, but I sold it to upgrade to something with zero stop, mil/mil, 10 mil’s per rev, and greater variable power range. Initially, I was just going to buy the NF as a replacement. However, as I’m financially cursed to live near EuroOptics, I was able to look at some other scopes which seemed to be a much more noticeable upgrade over my former MK4 (S&B, Hensoldt,…). Now, I’ve included the S&B 5-25 P4F and Premier 5-25 Gen2 XR into the mix along with the NightForce. I can get the S&B for around $2,890 and the Premier for perhaps slightly less than that, the NF is around $1850. The issue is, none of these scopes seem absolutely perfect for me. The Premier seems to be the closest (on paper at least). I really like the looks of the Gen2 XR reticle, but I question why the half mil subtensions are larger than the full mil. I’ve also read interweb reports questioning the durability (these are mostly from arf.com and I fully recognize these guys could be talking out their asses, but nonetheless it’s something I’ve read). The S&B is also nearly perfect and the brand name seems to have a long history of superior quality. However, I wish the P4F had .5 mil subtensions at the first .5 mil mark. I hold for wind and can see this being a bit of an issue. ***Edit to add: I just came across the new MSR reticle for the S&B; it looks perfect***. The NF seems like a good value, but to my eyes the glass isn’t much of a step up over the MK4. I also would really like it if the MLR allowed for more than a 5 mil elevation hold over. Of course, the NF is also a SFP reticle vs. the other two FFP’s.

It seems clear the law of diminishing marginal returns comes into play as optics get more expensive. I was initially on a strict $2k optics allowance, but I’ve pretty much rationalized saving for another couple of months if I truly feel it’s worth it to get an optic that I’ll be 100% happy with. I’ve learned a lot here over the past couple of years, so I figured I’d layout where I’m at in the process and hopefully get some valuable input from the hide. Thanks in advance!

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I got 2 out of the 3 you listed, buy whatever makes you happy.

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got 2 out of the 3 you listed, buy whatever makes you happy. </div></div>
I have none of the three. Which one makes you the most happy?

 

[Swan]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

If you are considering shooting matches in the near future, I'd lean towards FFP offerings. Not necessary, but definitely helps. So S&B, Premier, consider USO 3.8-22 and Vortex Razor HD 5-20 as well.

Any of these would be more than sufficient.

 

[Tackleberry]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I have both NF and S&B. They are both great scopes. The S&B does clearly have better glass. For $1000 less the NF is hard to beat, but I do like the S&B as well. The S&B adjustments on the turrents for me are very close together, I have to pay close attention when dialing up or down. I like the zero stop on S&B because you can dial a few clicks under your zero, NF stops on zero.

 

[bth87]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Ive got a Premier and have owned NF and USO, also I have used S&B alot. Between the Premier and S&B its just personal preference as far as im concerned they are both fantastic optics. Pick one of those two and dont look back.

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Now I'm really leaning toward the S&B 5-25x with the new MSR reticle. I just stumbled on this new reticle tonight. It seems to solve the issues that I have with the P4F. If anyone knows when this will be available, please let me know.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Don't get me wrong, the NF is a GREAT scope, but the PH ans S&B really are in a different legue. All are phenominal optics, any will serve you well.

Don't worry about the durability of Premiers, I have beat the living shit out of mine and the worst that has happened is a big chunch out of the aluminium turret.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Did you read Lowlight's SHOT report? He mentions a new uber-scope from NF. Why not try and get a timeline on when it might come out. If you're ok waiting then that might be worth your while?

Sorry to add yet another variable to the mix!

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I have four Nightforce scopes. I love them. It's kind of hard to make an analogy, but Nightforce is to other premium brands what Vortex (Razor excepted) is to less than premium brands. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Nightforce (in terms of glass quality) is a very good bang for the buck. What you are paying for is a total package which consists of a tank like build with very good glass. You can get better glass, but you're going to pay for it.

If you only need one scope and can afford it, by all means blow your wad on a S&B, Premiere, Hendsoldt, Vortex Razor, etc.; but for the price of some of those brands, you can almost get two Nightforces and be completely happy.

I'm running a 5.5-22X50 on my .308. I like the scope and it still makes me smile every time I look through it.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can get the S&B for around $2,890.

The S&B is also nearly perfect and the brand name seems to have a long history of superior quality. However, I wish the P4F had .5 mil subtensions at the first .5 mil mark. I hold for wind and can see this being a bit of an issue. ***Edit to add: I just came across the new MSR reticle for the S&B; it looks perfect***.
</div></div>

For that price it's surprising you asked. That answers the question right there.

Also their not being a .5 mil mark at the first mil isn't a big deal. I hold all my wind as well. The space in the reticle is at about .8 mils so it's easy to use once you use it for a little while. But if it is that big of a problem for you and you can wait until May then the MSR should be available.

 

[R.Walters]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I think you should get a hensoldt!

 

[GardDog]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't worry about the durability of Premiers, I have beat the living shit out of mine and the worst that has happened is a big chunch out of the aluminium turret. </div></div>

Get a good look at the PR that CKA has on his .260 Surgeon. Judging by the "character marks" that his PR carries, durability is there.

 

[steve123]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

To further complicate your life

I'll throw in the March 3-24 FFP into the mix.Hopefully they'll start shipping in the spring.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the PH ans S&B really are in a different legue. </div></div>

Hows that?

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the PH ans S&B really are in a different legue. </div></div>

Hows that? </div></div>
When I looked through scopes in a higher price range than NF, there was definitely a noticeable increase in quality of glass, not to mention the PH and S&B are 34mm tube FFP scopes vs. the NF which is a 30mm and SFP. I'd assume that's what gugubica meant.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

yes...

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KnabstrupperUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should get a hensoldt! </div></div>
I looked at one of these and it was awesome. However, I'm under the impression that the 6-24x is only available in a standard mil-dot. The different reticles available in S&B, Premier, and even NightForce are more appealing to me. The glass between S&B, Premier, and Hensoldt was virtually indistinguishable to my eyes, so it comes down to reticles and price. I do like that the Hensoldt was smaller and lighter.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

My vote is for the NightForce and use the money you save from not buying one of the higher priced for something else.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the PH ans S&B really are in a different legue. </div></div>

Hows that? </div></div>
When I looked through scopes in a higher price range than NF, there was definitely a noticeable increase in quality of glass, not to mention the PH and S&B are 34mm tube FFP scopes vs. the NF which is a 30mm and SFP. I'd assume that's what gugubica meant. </div></div>


Glass quality... Ok, slightly better. 34mm tube? With as much ele or less than the 30mm NXS. Wow..
NF does have a FFP model. The F1.

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the PH ans S&B really are in a different legue. </div></div>

Hows that? </div></div>
When I looked through scopes in a higher price range than NF, there was definitely a noticeable increase in quality of glass, not to mention the PH and S&B are 34mm tube FFP scopes vs. the NF which is a 30mm and SFP. I'd assume that's what gugubica meant. </div></div>


Glass quality... Ok, slightly better. 34mm tube? With as much ele or less than the 30mm NXS. Wow..
NF does have a FFP model. The F1.
</div></div>
NF does not have a FFP scope that goes beyond 15x. Don't get me wrong, NF makes some really nice scopes. However, there is an undeniable increase in optical clarity when you step up to a Hensoldt, Premier, or S&B. I also like the mil-based reticles offered by S&B and Premier better than NF's MLR or mil-dot. NF has no plans to release the 2011 SHOT reticles in their SFP scopes any time in the near future.

I'm not a "fanboy" of any of these scopes. If you read my original post, you'll see that I was set to buy a NF, but the optics listed above were noticeably clearer to my eye than the NF (more so than I expected). S&B and Premier also had some other benefits that I like. I don't really want to spend an extra $1,000 on a scope, but the extra $1,000 most certainly buys a noticeable difference.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

How do you guys see such a difference over the NF. I have all of the ones mentioned also and I cant tell a huge difference in glass clarity.

The PH: I love the clicks having a more defined click at every mil increment is nice.

The S&B: I like the slimline/bigger parallax knob and the separate illumination.

The NF: For the price hard to beat. Sold my S&B to put more NF on other rifles.

Hendsoldt: ?? never owned but sure looks great. Too bad I cant afford.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF does not have a FFP scope that goes beyond 15x. Don't get me wrong, NF makes some really nice scopes. However, there is an undeniable increase in optical clarity when you step up to a Hensoldt, Premier, or S&B. I also like the mil-based reticles offered by S&B and Premier better than NF's MLR or mil-dot. NF has no plans to release the 2011 SHOT reticles in their SFP scopes any time in the near future.

I'm not a "fanboy" of any of these scopes. If you read my original post, you'll see that I was set to buy a NF, but the optics listed above were noticeably clearer to my eye than the NF (more so than I expected). S&B and Premier also had some other benefits that I like. I don't really want to spend an extra $1,000 on a scope, but the extra $1,000 most certainly buys a noticeable difference. </div></div>

Being you are only concerned with the FFP models, what does it matter that the new reticles are only offered in the FFP models?

"Optical clarity"... Thats it, right? Are you telling me that you missed a target because of "inferior" NXS glass?

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: matt33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF does not have a FFP scope that goes beyond 15x. Don't get me wrong, NF makes some really nice scopes. However, there is an undeniable increase in optical clarity when you step up to a Hensoldt, Premier, or S&B. I also like the mil-based reticles offered by S&B and Premier better than NF's MLR or mil-dot. NF has no plans to release the 2011 SHOT reticles in their SFP scopes any time in the near future.

I'm not a "fanboy" of any of these scopes. If you read my original post, you'll see that I was set to buy a NF, but the optics listed above were noticeably clearer to my eye than the NF (more so than I expected). S&B and Premier also had some other benefits that I like. I don't really want to spend an extra $1,000 on a scope, but the extra $1,000 most certainly buys a noticeable difference. </div></div>

Being you are only concerned with the FFP models, what does it matter that the new reticles are only offered in the FFP models?

"Optical clarity"... Thats it, right? Are you telling me that you missed a target because of "inferior" NXS glass? </div></div>
I'm not looking to get into a pissing contest over this. Nothing I've posted in this thread has been made up. I'm not necessarily only concerned about FFP scopes, but I do see FFP as an advantage. I spelled out what I was looking for pretty clearly in my original post along with why I feel S&B and Premier offer advantages over NF. I said nothing about missing a target due to optics, I said that Premier and S&B are optically superior to the NF and that it was more noticeable than I expected.

If you're happy with your NF, that's great. I'm still trying to figure out what's best for me. At this point I'm nearly decided that I will buy a S&B 5-25x .1 mil CCW with the new MSR reticle. However, NF scopes are tough to beat for the money and because money is a factor I'm still thinking about buying one. That said, I have a hard time spending nearly $2k on a compromise and I might be happier in the long run if I spend another $950 (approx, exact figures to be determined) and buy a S&B or Premier.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Honestly, I've always been able to justify (almost) 2 NF's over 1 S&B. I paid $1658 shipped for my last NF (5.5-22x56, Hi-Speed Mil Knobs, Zero Stop, MLR Reticle), best price I could find on the S&B was $3k shipped. I understand the draw to the nicer optics, but for me I'd rather have 2 rifles with NF's on them than one rifle with an S&B.

JMO

 

[Rob01]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Buying something that you don't want just because it's cheaper isn't really getting a bargain. The OP wants a higher powered FFP. NF doesn't make a FFP higher than 15x. That would mean he could get a great deal on a SFP 5.5-22x and even get two but then he has two scopes that don't do what he wants. Not really a good thing. I would rather have one scope that is exactly what I want that a couple that aren't. Luckily unlike some others who ask questions like this Matt seems to have his head screwed on right and realizes this as well.

As to price for the FFP comparison, NF F1 is $2290. The S&B is $2890 with the Premier being about the same. $600 difference for more power and what he wants in the scope isn't a bad deal especially when you are getting into those price ranges.

 

[Jeeprider]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Every time someone asks the which scope do you think I should get question it turns into a this one is better than that. Usually related to the scope the person in favor already owns. Hey I see people riding around in the ugliest cars ever (Toyota Prius) and they're happy as a lark. It's all about personal preference. Seems like you're leaning towards S&B and PH, the differences are minor in quality. You will be happy with any of the aforementioned scopes. Just go with whatever works for YOU.

 

[pharm762]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I have both a Premier and S&B and would go Premier all the way. Both have high high quality glass and I really can't tell between either in terms of that but I like the Premier for the feel of clicks on the turrets, no "tube vision", tool less zeroing, fully lit reticle,and the Gen 2 XR over P4F

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I'm relatively new to this forum and wish I had found it a year ago. It's nice to see that there are others that are tearing their hair out over the same things that I did.

At first I played around looking at scopes at Walmart and Academy Sports with the selection of Leupold and Nikons that they had. Then I moved on to places like Cabelas, then boutique type shops like Sport Optics (they're local for me). I won't even talk about the likes of Nikon or Leupold. It was a waste of time.

I now have four Nightforce scopes and love them. Nightforce holds sort of a unique position in the optics market in that I don't think that they really have any direct competition at their price point. I do believe that Nightforce stands at the threshold of high quality optics offering the best bang for the buck, in terms of optical and build quality. If you are looking for a second focal plane scope and want to spend something around $1600, look no further.

Now, if you start talking first focal plane, the only offering that Nightforce has is the F1 and the price jumps. It actually jumps to a point where that bang for the buck doesn't apply so much any longer. Considering the price of the Nightforce FFP offering and the increase in the quality of the optics in the "better" scope lines, I think I'd have to look to S&B, Premiere or Hendsoldt (very pricey).

I've owned my Nightforce scopes for a while now and feel that I am satisfied (or can live with them without much pain). Still, the only one that I have that I feel is really special and fills a need that no one else can is the 2.5-10X32 model that I have. I would buy that scope over and over again to fill the need that I have for it. The 5.5-22Xs that I have were undoubtedly a compromise. That need for the bang for the buck got the better of me.

I do have to mention that I really like Nightforce's selection of reticles, which was one thing that attracted me to them. Although I do like to do some "tactical" style shooting on those rare occassions when I get to go out with friends and clown around ranging and banging steel, I also like to shoot paper for groups and the NP reticles lend themselves well to that purpose.

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Update:
I just ordered a S&B PMII 5-25x P4F .1 mil CCW turrets locally through EuroOptics. Hopefully, it will arrive in 4-6 weeks. After speaking with S&B USA and multiple S&B dealers, it looks like the MSR reticle might be a little further out than I hoped so I decided to go with the P4F.

As usual, EuroOptics was awesome to deal with and they beat the best price I could find anywhere (including online). Jason was really patient with me and allowed me to spend as much time as I wanted outside looking through NF, USO, Hensoldt, S&B, ect. The tunneling issue that I've read so much about with S&B seemed like a total non-issue. I wouldn't even have noticed it if I didn't specifically look for it below around 6x.

I actually liked the standard S&B turrets better than the new MTC turrets. The standard are much easier to hit .1 mil past a full mil, but the harder click at each full mil with the MTC was a nice feature. I told EO to order whichever as neither is a deal breaker as long as they were CCW.

I really appreciate all of the input from you guys. For my needs, it boiled down to the fact that I feel like the S&B is worth the $600 upgrade over the NF F1. I've compromised with my last rifle and last scope and ended up selling both. This time, by saving a little longer, I was able to justify getting what I really want the first time. I'll give a full range report once I get some trigger time.

 

[Iggy]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

Awesome matt! I ordered the same scope but with MTC turrets. We'll have to compare when you get yours I was torn between the two, but could have the MTC next week.

 

[crawdad1]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

all are great its just personal choice and budget

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

I would wait and see what Nightforce comes out with this Summer. A lot of of rumors on perhaps a higher magnification F1, or something else. If you can't wait then Premier 5-25x56

 

[matt33]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would wait and see what Nightforce comes out with this Summer. A lot of of rumors on perhaps a higher magnification F1, or something else. If you can't wait then Premier 5-25x56</div></div>
I heard the same about NF from a very reliable source. It's good to see them competing with Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt.

 

[TwoGun]

Re: Advice: NF 5.5-22x, Premier 5.5-25x, or S&B 5-25x?

My next scope will be the S&B 3-20x50 with the H2CMR. Seems right. I just have to find one (apparently April).