Advice on pre-64 Model 70

[Voroshilovsky]

I’ve inherited my grandfather’s pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, made in about 1947. Dad was much taller than me and fitted it to himself, including a thick rubber buttpad glued to the stock. The LOP is absurdly long. I don’t know how it’s possible that I learned to shoot on that rifle from the age of 10 or maybe younger.

Should I fit the rifle to myself to use as a deer/elk hunting rifle, if the opportunity arises? Including cutting the wooden stock shorter, if necessary? Or should I leave as is and treat as a collectible heirloom?

The scope is a badass Easton duplex from shortly after the dawn of time.

My AXSR and SCAR 20S are awesome but maybe not ideal for hunting.

Thanks in advance for your wise counsel.

 

[Baron23]

I’ve inherited my grandfather’s pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, made in about 1947. Dad was much taller than me and fitted it to himself, including a thick rubber buttpad glued to the stock. The LOP is absurdly long. I don’t know how it’s possible that I learned to shoot on that rifle from the age of 10 or maybe younger.

Should I fit the rifle to myself to use as a deer/elk hunting rifle, if the opportunity arises? Including cutting the wooden stock shorter, if necessary? Or should I leave as is and treat as a collectible heirloom?

The scope is a badass Easton duplex from shortly after the dawn of time.

My AXSR and SCAR 20S are awesome but maybe not ideal for hunting.

Thanks in advance for your wise counsel.

Try a thinner butt pad before cutting the stock.

Grind to fit from Kickeeze, Pachmyr (sp?), or Limb saver.

Then shoot it for a while BEFORE you decide it’s still too long and cut it. cut the wood and is forever, right.

 

[powdahound76]

This thread is weak without pics.

A family heirloom pre-64 is freakin awesome!!

And you could get a second stock to preserve the original if you need.

 

[Wyfox]

Since it's already been altered by your dad the collector value has already been diminished some. So take it to a good gunsmith and have a thinner butt pad installed that fits you.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

This thread is weak without pics.

A family heirloom pre-64 is freakin awesome!!

And you could get a second stock to preserve the original if you need.

Here’s a couple pics.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

Thanks for the advice. Follow-up question: What should I do to put a modern scope on it? Is a Viper PST II overkill? Is there a good Nightforce option below $1000? What kind of rings are good for such a rifle? (My other rifles have Spuhr mounts and either an ATACR or a Viper PST II.)

 

[Baron23]

Here’s a couple pics.

You sure that white line butt pad isn’t original?

And it doesn’t look all that thick to me but you can prob find a thinner one.

I don’t see any other mods to the stock.

How thick is that pad and are there any imprints on it?

 

[Wyfox]

Pretty sure that era of Model 70 just had a butt plate

 

[Wyfox]

I'd opt for a 3/4" Pachmeyer old english pad. If your going to use it put a new optic on it, a Swarovski 3-9 Z3 is plenty and would look nice. Replace the rings and bases with some Talley's and you'll have a beautiful classic rifle.

Highly recommend these guys for work on your rifle

The Custom Shop

Welcome to the Custom Shop. Here you will find aftermarket barrels, custom stocks, and other non-Winchester parts for your pre-64 model 70.

pre64win.com

 

[Baron23]

Pretty sure that era of Model 70 just had a butt plate

Its a bit confusing, IMO.

Yes, many had a butt plate, but it appears that larger caliber had butt pads, butt pads could be special ordered, and it seems to have changed a bit depending on vintage.

I'm not a Win collector...those are the guys who will tell you what is correct for a very specific year/model/etc.

I thought this was interesting as is a google for pics of pre-64 70's which show a variety of pads, some houses swearing its documented OG, but I can't really tell if this is true or not.

correct butt pad for Pre-64 model 70 - Google Search

 

[powdahound76]

Nice!!!

This is a good spot for “stuff”.

Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Rifles and Rifle Parts

Your first stop for pre 64 Winchester model 70 rifles & gun parts. pre64win.com is a dedicated site for collectors and shooters of the the Rifleman's Rifle.

pre64win.com

Mine is keeping the old scope.
Its classic and cool.
Easy to do holds to 300 or so like I did before I discovered a scope to dial on my hunting rifle.
Dropped more than a couple deer that way.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

You sure that white line butt pad isn’t original?

And it doesn’t look all that thick to me but you can prob find a thinner one.

I don’t see any other mods to the stock.

How thick is that pad and are there any imprints on it?

Dad did some modifications to the rifle, probably in the 1960s or ‘70s, including, he said, bedding the stock with fiberglass to “make it match grade”, and I believe adding the buttpad.

(Now pls look at the attached pics.)

The black and white plastic lines between pad and stock appear to be perfectly sized to the pad and slightly wider than the stock. So I think those three components were part of a single aftermarket addition.

The imprint on the pad says indicates it’s a Pachmayr White Line. The pad itself is 3/4”, and the B&W plastic adds about 1/4”.

Maybe my issue is really eye relief? Note that I e shifted the scope as far back as it will go in the rings, and I pushed the rings as far back as they’ll go on the bases. Apologies if I’ve been dumb about this. Thanks again for the advice and interest!

 

[deltawiskey]

It's your Dad's rifle, keep it how he set it up. You can always get another rifle to modify if you feel the need.
DW

 

[b6graham]

a 14" LOP really isn't that far off normal. try finding a 1/2" buttpad to match and you should be good to go

 

[Baron23]

@Voroshilovsky

14" LOP really isn't that far off normal. try finding a 1/2" buttpad to match and you should be good to go

I agree that 14" isn't too far off the mark...too short for a shotgun for me, but for me LOP of rifles is shorter than for scatter guns.

Alternatively, he can find replacement butt plates if he wants...probably not a lot of fun to shoot a 30-06 with...but it will be period correct as would be a solid red pad, I believe.

Winchester pre-64 model 70 butt plate - Google Search

Last thing I would do is cut the stock...been there with shotguns and regretted it. I would only do it after trying everything else and shooting it for a good bit to ensure that the stock really is too long

@Voroshilovsky - you may know this already, but you measure LOP from the trigger shoe to the butt and not from the front of the trigger guard.
Also, any competent stock smith can steam those dings and scratches out and refinish if you choose. Or, you may want to keep them as a signs of your father's love and use of this rifle.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

Thanks, all. Based on your advice, I think if I could reduce the eye relief a bit or otherwise eliminate the scope shadow, by using different base or rings, then I could leave the buttpad as is and live with the slightly long LOP. That would let me or my heir revert to Dad’s set up.

@Baron23: The measuring tape in my pic was positioned to help indicate relative position of the trigger/guard and the ocular lens. But I was still wondering whether you measure LOP from the front of the trigger shoe, the back, or from the middle of the trigger blade… 14” would mean middle of the blade/shoe, so I guess that’s my answer. Thanks.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Before you do anything, make sure the bore is in good shape. If that’s good, get a nice scope but don’t chunk the old one and the rings. If at all possible, keep the original bases. If the current rings are one inch, get a scope that is one inch. Yes, I know 30mm, 34mm and 35mm scopes are better in every respect but, scope bases leave marks and worse, sometimes, once the screws are busted loose, they may never hold again. (Ask me how I know, once removed the scope base on a first year production XP-100. The firearm went from a 90-95% to about an 80% considering the marks the base left. So, deciding to replace that base, the screws would never hold again. Lesson I learned, if its old and its got a usable base, leave it alone.).

Nice rifle, yes I am jealous.

However, as DW said, might be nice to give it a good cleaning, find a nice place to display it. Shoot it every now and then just because. Find a decent rifle (plenty good shooters out there for $600 or less) and never worry about any scratches or dings.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

Before you do anything, make sure the bore is in good shape. If that’s good, get a nice scope but don’t chunk the old one and the rings. If at all possible, keep the original bases. If the current rings are one inch, get a scope that is one inch. Yes, I know 30mm, 34mm and 35mm scopes are better in every respect but, scope bases leave marks and worse, sometimes, once the screws are busted loose, they may never hold again. (Ask me how I know, once removed the scope base on a first year production XP-100. The firearm went from a 90-95% to about an 80% considering the marks the base left. So, deciding to replace that base, the screws would never hold again. Lesson I learned, if its old and its got a usable base, leave it alone.).

Nice rifle, yes I am jealous.

However, as DW said, might be nice to give it a good cleaning, find a nice place to display it. Shoot it every now and then just because. Find a decent rifle (plenty good shooters out there for $600 or less) and never worry about any scratches or dings.

Before you do anything, make sure the bore is in good shape. If that’s good, get a nice scope but don’t chunk the old one and the rings. If at all possible, keep the original bases. If the current rings are one inch, get a scope that is one inch. Yes, I know 30mm, 34mm and 35mm scopes are better in every respect but, scope bases leave marks and worse, sometimes, once the screws are busted loose, they may never hold again. (Ask me how I know, once removed the scope base on a first year production XP-100. The firearm went from a 90-95% to about an 80% considering the marks the base left. So, deciding to replace that base, the screws would never hold again. Lesson I learned, if its old and its got a usable base, leave it alone.).

Nice rifle, yes I am jealous.

However, as DW said, might be nice to give it a good cleaning, find a nice place to display it. Shoot it every now and then just because. Find a decent rifle (plenty good shooters out there for $600 or less) and never worry about any scratches or dings.

Sounds wise. I’ll do that. Now I need to think about a new hunting rifle…

 

[LR308guy]

Maybe another option is to restock your fine condition family heirloom from your grandfather, with a copy of a pre64 period correct stock that fits you better and preserve the original. eBay listings show some from time to time, just an idea to pass on.

 

[Boatninja]

I have pretty strong opinions on altering family heirlooms and destroying collector value. If it is an heirloom it should have value as exactly that and only that and not as an investment and should never be sold for any price. I'm willing to bet that your Dad would be thrilled that his descendants can enjoy it. Shoot it, enjoy it and if it needs to be altered to be enjoyable do it!
I sold a non heirloom, pre-64 stock and action (barrel bore was too rusty to shoot) here on the buy-sell-trade forum a couple of years ago, and gave the guy a helluva deal. I saved the rust lined barrel and hope to have hunting knives made for my grandchildren You might find what you need right here.
There is also a forum dedicated to old and new parts for them, search for pre64 forum and you will find it.

 

[tuckybill]

I can't see but the but plate on the 70s of that era were steel (ouch) and was neider style with a little inset at the top heel of the buttstock. If that inlet is gone its been cut some. Nothing sacred about a white line pad. Get a newer softer thinner pad. If it kicks too hard use 135 gr ammo or lower gr. for deer.
I'll wager dollars to doughnuts your dad would want you to shoot and hunt and enjoy that rifle.
Clean the barrel with a good copper solvent and check that it's ok. Don't worry if there is a pit or two in it. Those barrels were cut rifled and lapped like the best barrels of today. They will flat out shoot even if they are a little rough in the bore.

Any scope you like will go on it. I think it was tapped and any M70 bases will go on it. Get the long base as that is what it is.

 

[jbuck88]

There isn't much collector value with the modifications. So you aren't destroying much, if any, by changing the pad. However I would pick up a 2nd stock and you can either.

 

[Slowroll]

I recently went through almost the exact same conundrum. I too inherited a pre 64 ‘06 and had funky stock work. I ultimately decided to “remake” my heirloom into something I will use. I used and echols stock and had moon true the action . We rebarreled it chambered in 280al. I had my grandfather’s brand engraved on the sunnyhill floorplate. Turned out just as I hoped. My take on grandpa’s rifle.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

View attachment 7755935I recently went through almost the exact same conundrum. I too inherited a pre 64 ‘06 and had funky stock work. I ultimately decided to “remake” my heirloom into something I will use. I used and echols stock and had moon true the action . We rebarreled it chambered in 280al. I had my grandfather’s brand engraved on the sunnyhill floorplate. Turned out just as I hoped. My take on grandpa’s rifle.

That's very cool. Based on all the advice I got here, I'm inclined to try to preserve Dad's setup as much as possible, but making it shootable for special occasions, while retaining the possibility of easily reverting back to Dad's setup. So I don't want to mess with the stock or the buttpad.

If I can get rings that fit the existing bases and that somehow reduce eye relief, I'd have an OK fit. To do this, I wonder whether I can get rings with an offset. Haven't seen such a thing at Talley's. Or maybe a scope with a longer tube. Or maybe (and I reveal my ignorance here) a mount that could sit on the bases, allowing for different placement of the rings, but without blocking the ejection/action and bolt.

 

[Maxduty]

I'd cut that stock to fit you. It's a tool and completely worthless if you can't use it properly. If you want to preserve the collector value of it, you might as well sell it or go ahead and give it to your kid. If it's sentimental value, you'll still have it as you can grab it to hunt with and know your dad did the same when he owned it. Let's face it, while it's cool, it's old school technology that can be updated to make it useful to you.

 

[Hookturnr]

I inherited a 1942 M70 that had been chopped and oiled to death. I restocked it with a fiberglass stock and put a Leupold 3x-9x vxIII on it and still take it out to whack a deer now and then.

You may find that a modern optic with better eyebox is all that you need.

Those old scopes, while cool, sucked for eye relief.

 

[Shootnwrench]

My take on grandpa’s rifle.

That’s pretty trick man. The red pad is a nice nod to the lineage. Type 2 / transition era receiver it looks like?

Curious what’s it weigh?

 

[Slowroll]

9.2 lbs on my bath scale. I chose the regular fill on the stock. I think it mitigates recoil a little better than the edge fill.

 

[Budrichard]

14&1/4" LOP was Winchester factory spec for your rifle with steel butt plate but
A winchester pad or a Pachymar white Line were factory options but most were not factory orders and had the steel.
You should be able to find one in steel..
LOP was measured from the front of the trigger!!!!!!
Interpolating from your picture it suer looks like your rifle has the standard 14&1/4" LOP!!!!!
Reads like you rifle has 14&1/4" and is standard.
Cody has factory info.
If the 14&1/4" " is too long or you are you sure it's not the scope that is affecting your problem?
At the most I would change to a steel butt plate and try to adjust the scope and mounts to you liking.
Since you remark your father bedding the rifle, a common occurrence at that time.
Leave the action in the stock.
Pachymar also makes a thin rubber pad these days that might work.
Do you know your LOP?
In any event it looks like A very nice Pre-64 Winchester and the less you do to it, the better.
New stock, forget it, takes all the craftsmanship out of the rifle!
Keep the original scope and mounts, want a better scope/rifle fit, purchase anew rifle.
Good luck!!!
-Richard
BTW I once acquired a Win M70 super grade in 375 H&H made in 1949 with factory rear peep sight Mint.
Ordered a new Zeiss 1-4 for bear and mounts, when we removed the rear peep sight to mount the scope we found the rear bridge was not drilled. The break point was in fact 1949, before that the rear bridge was not drilled.
Left the rifle as is. traded to Tony Galazan and purchase new Rem Models 7 AWR in 300 SAUM for bear.

 

[Voroshilovsky]

14&1/4" LOP was Winchester factory spec for your rifle with steel butt plate but
A winchester pad or a Pachymar white Line were factory options but most were not factory orders and had the steel.
You should be able to find one in steel..
LOP was measured from the front of the trigger!!!!!!
Interpolating from your picture it suer looks like your rifle has the standard 14&1/4" LOP!!!!!
Reads like you rifle has 14&1/4" and is standard.
Cody has factory info.
If the 14&1/4" " is too long or you are you sure it's not the scope that is affecting your problem?
At the most I would change to a steel butt plate and try to adjust the scope and mounts to you liking.
Since you remark your father bedding the rifle, a common occurrence at that time.
Leave the action in the stock.
Pachymar also makes a thin rubber pad these days that might work.
Do you know your LOP?
In any event it looks like A very nice Pre-64 Winchester and the less you do to it, the better.
New stock, forget it, takes all the craftsmanship out of the rifle!
Keep the original scope and mounts, want a better scope/rifle fit, purchase anew rifle.
Good luck!!!
-Richard
BTW I once acquired a Win M70 super grade in 375 H&H made in 1949 with factory rear peep sight Mint.
Ordered a new Zeiss 1-4 for bear and mounts, when we removed the rear peep sight to mount the scope we found the rear bridge was not drilled. The break point was in fact 1949, before that the rear bridge was not drilled.
Left the rifle as is. traded to Tony Galazan and purchase new Rem Models 7 AWR in 300 SAUM for bear.

The photo I sent should’ve measured for LOP, but I put it at the front of the trigger guard to show the relationship between the trigger and the ocular lens to see if folks thought the eye relief was wonky. When I measured LOP from middle of the trigger blade to the end of the buttpad, I believe I got 14 5/8” or so. It’s a little long for me, but if I could get a shorter eye relief, I could probably live with it as is.

Thanks for everybody’s comments!