He doesn’t even rate being a greeter at a WallyWorld. Tallybon Joe needs to go !
Afghanistan, as the US tries to "pull out" after 20 years of "holding land".
- Thread starter GreenGO Juan
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He doesn’t even rate being a greeter at a WallyWorld. Tallybon Joe needs to go !
I’m a nobody, I did 3 tours or about 2 1/2yrs there over 16 years, I probably know 1-20th of most of you. But, my opinion, we ought to have left SOF and air assets in place, continued to support the Afghan Army, until we didn’t need to. That’s roughly 2-5k. Look at Columbia and the counter narco terrorist, that’s been a 40yr engagement. Strategically the positioning of US forces in Afghanistan wasn’t a bad place to have resources.
This planned withdrawal should end up in resignations from the SecDef and SecOfState. It’s insane. Everyone who was on the ground in ‘19 knew this course of events was inevitable if we wholesale withdrew.
I know most couldn’t careless cause no more endless wars, but this was a mistake. Hypothetically, the US goes back into Afghanistan, good luck. No bases, no allies, no northern alliance, no locals will work with the US.
This planned withdrawal should end up in resignations from the SecDef and SecOfState. It’s insane. Everyone who was on the ground in ‘19 knew this course of events was inevitable if we wholesale withdrew.
I know most couldn’t careless cause no more endless wars, but this was a mistake. Hypothetically, the US goes back into Afghanistan, good luck. No bases, no allies, no northern alliance, no locals will work with the US.
If my memory is correct, the English forced the Chinese to pay reparations to the Sassoon family (the Roschild of the East) after their loss in the first Opium war. Westerners don’t know much about the details of the opium war but I assure you that a lot of Chinese do.
That would be forever and we'd get nothing out of it. Plus we would lose good guys every year to bombs etc.
Can you explain in more detail?? I assume you are talking about Pristina Airport during Kosovo?
The local forces see NATO troops as invaders. They will, like any society always have in fighting but they unify against "NATO" as invaders. Thats why they laid down and the president ran. They don't care about western intentions.
The only way to "win" in Afghanistan in the western mind, is a total take over and re population, but that was never the intention. The idea that you could train the local forces to fight each other(Taliban) is ignorance from years at attempted imperial colonization.
It's a subject I have been learning about but there is not much detail of it in our history books. I understand the one of the flash points which started conflict started was Chinese government was trying to stop an opium epidemic sweeping their nation. China tried to cut off British dope smugglers and the British started blockading their Ports resulting in wars and concessions.
Thats why I bring up the unspoken, Opium production in Afghanistan... But you can't sell that as grounds for invasion to the population of countries where Opium production is "illegal." But I could literally walk down the street in my Little town and score dope at the habibe store
I was there for 2 1/2 years and not sitting on a FOB. I’ve got some perspective of what the locals are like, at least in Logar, Kunduz, and Wardak.
Some of the experiences varied but I found certain local forces to be adapt in fighting Taliban, even ruthless in their pursuit of that goal.
Spoken like a true neocon. Where were all those great 400,000 adept ruthless warriors in the last 3 weeks ?
Why do you want to sacrifice more of our best and brightest SOF in this shithole of a country to protect that corrupted socalled government who offered absolutely no resistance and even worse, left the Talibans with a bounties of armoured trucks, drones and blackhawks
Do you also think we need to send more troops to Syria to protect the IDF ?
Wouldn’t those SOF, drones, Air Force be more useful at home protecting the southern border from drugs and human trafficking?
I wouldn’t have SOF patrolling our southern boarder, no.
I hear you and anyone else, I won’t spill any beer in my concern over the current state of Afghanistan. I just think it’s really shitty that we might be back. That would really piss me off.
I don't doubt that some of them where. People, of all kinds make up any nation. It just seems those were the exception, not the standard.
Being back, I do not want to see happen. I don't want to see that effort of good men thrown away.
These people are nuts.
it is sad that we spent so much money and blood there to help and protect retards that would cling to an airplane believing they will somehow survive the flight rather than pick up a gun and protect themselves.
Not to mention, this yet again makes us a paper tiger. Tuck tail. Your analysis seems good to me. A hard sell to the people; but logical. The real damage is how it affects any semi-friendly Arab state.
Though, my guess is we'd always have to support the Afghan army. But, heck, we've supported Korea and Japan for years, and same with germany and NATO.
Worth a read.
"But for the reasons cited in this paper, a post-withdrawal collapse might come sooner. And so might the regret. The enemies that drew the United States back into Afghanistan in 2001 and back into Iraq in 2014 are still present in Afghanistan in 2019."
"As noted, it has become a common view that there is no military solution to the war in Afghanistan, but this is, at best, only half true. Winning may not be an available option, but losing certainly is, and a precipitous departure, no matter how rationalized, would mean choosing to lose."
- Consequences of a Precipitous U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan (2019)
China Threatens Taiwan, Mocks US After Afghanistan Debacle - ThePalmieriReport
China Threatens Taiwan, Mocks US After Afghanistan Debacle
thepalmierireport.com
I’m in agreement with you there brother, hard to sell keeping boots on the ground. I got it, that’s like selling that ocean front property in Oklahoma. At this juncture, we’ve played our hand, nothing more to do. Except redeploy thousands of kids into an incredibly dangerous situation. We will evacuate all US personnel, hopefully without a fight.
Your fellow countrymen/countrywomen/countrythat's allegedly and apparently VOTED for that.
In other words:
"The enemy is WITHIN the wire...."
One spokesman just said 'Well, the helicopter is how we've routinely transported to/from embassy for 50 years.'
Trump's fault...it's coming...I'm going to watch this to see the shit show!!!!
Trump's fault...it's coming...I'm going to watch this to see the shit show!!!!
After 20 years and a couple trillion dollars we could've had all sorts of new roads, bridges, schools and a casino resort on the fucking Moon with an 18 hole golf course.
If I was there I'd be chaining myself to a plane as well. Either that or hope my beard is long enough to avoid being killed by the Taliban.
So, it’s the Afghan war that prevented our development of a lunar society.
Less than 4 minutes in...Trump's fault.
I think the part of this whole shit show that bugs me the most is that it looks like they left the whole evac operation up to a bunch of E3's being led by rotc cadets.... seriously wtf....
The same politicians who have been keeping the stupid thing going for 20 years say it's all Trump's fault.
I had to stop listening soon afterwards. Because when he said he voted against the surge, blah blah blah, and then if you go look at the spending AFTER "barry h" ordered the raid in Pakistan, it skyrocketed...under OSAMA-XIDEN admin.
Trump had a plan. XIDEN chose to ignore it. TALLY_BAHN knew that XIDEN had no backbone and could be pushed and trampled. TALLY_BAHN also knew TRUMP would grind up their freaking heads with well placed ordnance.
Trump had a plan. XIDEN chose to ignore it. TALLY_BAHN knew that XIDEN had no backbone and could be pushed and trampled. TALLY_BAHN also knew TRUMP would grind up their freaking heads with well placed ordnance.
I don't get it.
If they are willing to die to try fleeing for freedom, why not fight for it and die at home?
Oh, wait. . .
So serious question.....did the Taliban engage in ANY combat to take over Afghanistan?
Or did they just show up and everyone ran?
Did Afghanistan even try a little bit to defend themselves?
Or did they just show up and everyone ran?
Did Afghanistan even try a little bit to defend themselves?
State Department calls for Taliban to include women in its government
State Department spokesman Ned Price addressed the nation in the wake of the Taliban's conquest of Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan.
www.foxnews.com
Transfer of power? Really? Who the fuck does the Puddin' administration think has the power in A-stan?
State Department calls for Taliban to include women in its government
State Department spokesman Ned Price addressed the nation in the wake of the Taliban's conquest of Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan.
Transfer of power? Really? Who the fuck does the Puddin' administration think has the power in A-stan?
Yeah I'm sure the Chinese-backed Taliban will be very progressive.
My guess is...they welcomed them, nothing to run from or anything. Only the people who helped the US and coalition forces will be murdered and any women who didn't have a burqa in stock. They could get one from CNN most likely.
If the Taliban are that efficient, even Patton would be impressed. There was a map showing the final week. I'd like to see by week since May.
These fucks are seriously without a clue...IQ < 70. Women in government...ha!!!! Women have no rights in that society. But demo-commies of USA support that shit tacitly.State Department calls for Taliban to include women in its government
State Department spokesman Ned Price addressed the nation in the wake of the Taliban's conquest of Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan.
Transfer of power? Really? Who the fuck does the Puddin' administration think has the power in A-stan?
Please tell me this doesn't fuck up the generals CRT training and gender reassignment surgeries, the midterms are getting close.
Times have really changed in the military does anybody remember when we were worried about Sergeant Majors getting a frontal lobotomy?
"Bee, who nearly died more than once in Afghanistan and was photographed ducking for cover as a Taliban sniper’s bullet exploded on a stone wall inches from his head in 2008, said it was ludicrous to pull out the way U.S. forces did and that a private first class earning one-tenth of what the Joint Chiefs of Staff are paid could have come up with a better solution."
America does have some of the bravest men and women on earth.........
Contrary to popular belief, heroin in America mostly comes from Mexico. Mexico used to only supply the west coast, because they only knew how to make black tar. Starting around 07, the Sinaloa cartel paid some Colombian chemists to teach them how to make #4 dope(heroin hcl) and from then on took over the east coast market as well which formerly was supplied by Colombia.
Afghan dope mainly goes to Europe/Russia. Americans wouldn’t know what to do with Afghan dope. It’s in a freebase form called heroin #3.
Opium from Afghanistan does make it the the American Continents and into the US.
As the US legalized marijuana, Mexican marijuana farmers planting outdoor crops became less profitable, after the high quality now available in the states. Nobody wants to smoke seeded swag. So the cartels moved state side on their Marijuana production. In the wake of that loss in revenue many of those fields were turned to producing Opium. So yes Mexican opium production in recent years has increased. As mentioned further processing has allowed it to be turned into and pressed into pills mixed with all sort of other shit.
On a world scale what is produced in Afghanistan is on the order of 6-7,000 metric tons. What is produced in Mexico is around 3-400 metric tons. With the caveat these comes from UN published data, so who knows what it actually is. Generally those involved in the drug trade are not forthcoming with their production numbers.
I can't quite put it together but I personally can not disconnect the destruction of the Opium production in Afghanistan in 2000 to the invasion and 20 year occupation. Wether purposely or accidentally, I personally believe purposely, NATO forces supported the production of the largest publicly know source of Illicit Opium production in the World, this cannot be denied!
I believe the attacks on 9/11 were used as reason, and national building in Afghanistan as a humanitarian effort was sold to the public.
Remember, we found Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan a supposed ally and a country the US gives foreign aid too... we didn't need to occupy Afghanistan to find him, he was out of there and back in Pakistan before the end of 2001. It wasn't a massive army action that killed him. It was 2 helicopters and a Seal team, conducted with out alerting the Pakistani government. Pakistan is one of Afghanistans trafficking routes. Pakistan was financially backing the Taliban when the took control of Afghanistan in 1996. THEY MIGHT HAVE NOT EXPECTED THEM TO START DESTROYING THE CROP.
Bin Laden had on many occasions attacked US assets, he was an ass hat and needed, imo, to be taken out. But we didn't need to support the LARGEST OPIUM NARCO STATE ON THE PLANET DOING IT.
This whole adventure was predicated on bullshit from the start. EDIT- AND THE RECENT THINGS SAID AND DONE BY THE BRASS PROVES JUST HOW OUT OF TOUCH THEY ARE WITH WHATS REALLY GOING ON. US military general know fuck all about the drug trade and what's actually happening in Afghanistan , Either that, or they do know and are playing stupid, personally I believe they are really that incompetent, and are literally chasing stars.
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Per the DEA- “...the overwhelming majority of the heroin available in America is produced in Mexico..”
Yes Afgh produces much more. But they’re also supplying all of Eurasia. A very small amount of Afghan dope may make it here but it’d be rare and likely wouldn’t sell so well. Users here have never seen #3 dope, and will flock to the higher purity #4 produced in Central America(talking east coast in this situation).
I ain’t trying to say we didn’t facilitate the opium trade in Afgh. We definitely did. I’m just saying the large majority of it ended up in Europe.
And that Afgh ain’t the only place our .gov has some sinister shit going on.
www.borderlandbeat.com
Not to mention CIA agent Felix Rodriguez(“hero of a thousand unknown wars”, the dude who killed Che) helped torture/kill Agent Kiki Camarena because Camarena found out the CIA was in bed with the Guadalajara cartel to smuggle coke for the Contras. CIA even set up a Contra training camp on one of Rafael Caro Quintero’s ranches.
Yes Afgh produces much more. But they’re also supplying all of Eurasia. A very small amount of Afghan dope may make it here but it’d be rare and likely wouldn’t sell so well. Users here have never seen #3 dope, and will flock to the higher purity #4 produced in Central America(talking east coast in this situation).
I ain’t trying to say we didn’t facilitate the opium trade in Afgh. We definitely did. I’m just saying the large majority of it ended up in Europe.
And that Afgh ain’t the only place our .gov has some sinister shit going on.
House of Death, Complete Story
Dozen men were tortured, killed and buried in a small house in Juarez. Three years later, the U.S. government is still trying to cover up wh...
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Sir
I believe you have hit the preverbal nail on the head. Sure seem easy and planned out. No fighting and just showed up. Seems a little sinister to me.
Its because in any population there are only so many fighters not everyone is a warrior, and the majority of them in Afghanistan are aligned with the Taliban. Even some of those US military was training and arming. Most of, not all, but most of the Afghan people would support their own(asian/islamic) before any foreign invader.
Most were tolerating the US/Nato presence, because they had no choice and don't want to die fighting. Most of the Afghan people, including the Taliban are tired of fighting, so they cope with what ever power is there and many don't give 2 shits about western ideology.
On a different note but one that draws parallel to a successful revolution.
When I was 13 I started studying Che Guevara. Parts of Che's journal converted into English was included in one of the books I read about him. One point he made is when he, the Castor Brothers and about 80 others took Garanma from Mexico into Cuba they were able to win the love of the people, of the masses. Not everyone but the majority. Cuba was ripe for revolution and wanted to get ride of Batista which they considered an imperial colonial power. When they attacked Havana they were massively out numbered but the Government troops folded to a group of rebels with the will to fight. Batista fled the country quickly(sound familiar?). Many US business interests where nationalized, standard oil and the sugar cane industry. It also pissed off the American Mob, which vacationed in Cuba etc. So the US Guberment came up with the Bay of PiGs, which was a half hearted effort and parallels the issue in the US government today and its ability to conquer land. Seen in Cuba, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria Egypt and many other areas. I believe there are 3 main points as too why.
1. The politicians don't want to risk their careers starting a brutal war, for example. Kennedy pulled US involvement in the bay of pigs after training the refugees that came over after Fidel took power, but refused a full US invasion. Many of the planned Air support missions were canceled last minute because Kennedy wanted to hide US involvement. The landing party, who were slaughtered never stood a chance.
Nearly every president who has escalated war with out unanimous support of the American people, has served 1 term. Kennedy(murdered), Johnson( was only elected 1 time), Bush(the 1st one) served one term after desert storm. But when you had attacks like pearl harbor or 9/11 the president stuck around, Roosevelt 12 years, Bush 2 full terms. You must have the population behind you. Which leads to my second point.
2. The people of the country were revolution is attempted have to be willing. An invading force is an invading force is an invading force and always will be. If the people don't want you, you have to commit genocide and eliminate them. Or they will just wait it out until you leave. Which leads to point 3.
3. Militarily the US has the power to destroy and take other countries, we theoretically are capable of slaughtering entire populations. But the Us government is an extension of the people and the people won't tolerate mass slaughter unless you have things like Pearl Harbor or 9/11. You can slip a little violence/war past them but at some point the political climate changes and demands an end to the fighting. The American people keep the politicians in check which has kept the USA from successfully empire building through war.
Back to Guevara. Che was also involved in revolution in the Congo and Bolivia. He said there they never won over the people which was very different from his experience in Cuba. He was killed in Bolivia in 1967 by the Bolivia military while trying to start revolution there, which even he doubted being successful. You can learn a lot from your potential enemies if you are open minded. Had Che controlled the Nukes put in Cuba, he would have used them, he wrote about visiting Hiroshima Japan, and seeing some what first hand the massive devastation the US possessed. Be God Damned happy even the Soviets, who were using the opportunity to have missiles removed from turkey, never gave them that power.
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