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AI AT Bolt Stuck 6.5 CM
- Thread starter ACK
- Start date
I don’t reload, but I always thought you were only supposed to load brass 2-4 times tops before ditching it. I had an Olin Corp employee tell me this when I was a teenager growing up in the St Louis area (at the Olin shotgun range). I guess I am wrong, but brass is fairly malleable and does exhibit fatigue when stressed over a period of time. https://www.copper.org/applications/industrial/DesignGuide/performance/fatigue03.html
Obviously, we are not putting the brass casing between two plates and “cycling” it thousands of times, but the cases are experiencing contained explosions that causes the cartridges to expand. I can’t imagine someone using a brass case more than 10x without some degree of risk, especially when you have to anneal the case necks every so often. I may be wrong though....
Obviously, we are not putting the brass casing between two plates and “cycling” it thousands of times, but the cases are experiencing contained explosions that causes the cartridges to expand. I can’t imagine someone using a brass case more than 10x without some degree of risk, especially when you have to anneal the case necks every so often. I may be wrong though....
It’s not uncommon to use brass 20+ firings as long as your sizing correctly and have quality brass. Many use them until the primer pocket opens up, start seeing signs of case head separation, cracked necks or switching to new barrels etc. I’ve ran lapua 308 brass over 20 firings without issue. Set them aside when switching to new barrel
That is why the previous comment of "100+ reloading on Lapua brass" and "without annealing", is raising the bullshit meter with a few of the members (experienced members I might add). That dog won't hunt....
I regularly get 20ish loadings of brass.
I had some Winchester brass go a bit past 40 before I scrapped it because I got scared, I did have to cull some because of loose primers but a case head separation sealed its fate.
I do anneal
Before I annealed brass always died early and I struggled to get cases sized right after about 5 loadings because neck and shoulder get hard and you have to make die adjustments to compensate.
I had some Winchester brass go a bit past 40 before I scrapped it because I got scared, I did have to cull some because of loose primers but a case head separation sealed its fate.
I do anneal
Before I annealed brass always died early and I struggled to get cases sized right after about 5 loadings because neck and shoulder get hard and you have to make die adjustments to compensate.
A reading comprehension class would do wonders for you. Annealing is a must if you don’t want cracked necks after about 10x. I never said not annealed.
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It amazes me how many people know very little about loading. It’s not that hard to test these theories yourself.
I get that most here push speeds, like trying to go 2900 with 140 class bullets in a 6.5. Of course the brass will yield. That’s not what it was designed to do.
How hard is it to reload a few cases over and over to see what happens?
I get that most here push speeds, like trying to go 2900 with 140 class bullets in a 6.5. Of course the brass will yield. That’s not what it was designed to do.
How hard is it to reload a few cases over and over to see what happens?
Yawn...I have never had brass go above 22 loadings even with a subsonic load annealed every firing... So guess we will have to take you at your word you have gotten 100...
This probably needs its own separate thread, but since it’s relevant here, I’ll post it.
When using quality brass, there are really only three frequent failures that happen. When using shit brass, anything can happen anytime, thus this thread.
Loose primer pockets.
If you are getting loose primer pockets, you are exceeding the design limits of that chambering. Not really a debate. The reason you still have your face intact, is the generous amount of safety margin built in. This failure is really easy to solve.
CHS.
If you FL size, you will eventually get Case head separation. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. That depends on how much you work the case. It’s avoided by neck only sizing when the round still chambers easily. The hotter one loads, the more FL sizing and trimming will have to be done.
Neck/shoulder cracks
These will show up if you don’t anneal. It’s hard to say when, because it depends on how much you size the neck. Proper annealing solves this issue most of the time.
Loading brass many times over isn’t that difficult, it just takes basic knowledge. Like I said before don’t believe me or others, try it yourself. The chance of having problems with sane loads, and good brass(Lapua/Alpha), is way less than pushing the limits of a cartridge, which many here do very frequently.
When using quality brass, there are really only three frequent failures that happen. When using shit brass, anything can happen anytime, thus this thread.
Loose primer pockets.
If you are getting loose primer pockets, you are exceeding the design limits of that chambering. Not really a debate. The reason you still have your face intact, is the generous amount of safety margin built in. This failure is really easy to solve.
CHS.
If you FL size, you will eventually get Case head separation. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. That depends on how much you work the case. It’s avoided by neck only sizing when the round still chambers easily. The hotter one loads, the more FL sizing and trimming will have to be done.
Neck/shoulder cracks
These will show up if you don’t anneal. It’s hard to say when, because it depends on how much you size the neck. Proper annealing solves this issue most of the time.
Loading brass many times over isn’t that difficult, it just takes basic knowledge. Like I said before don’t believe me or others, try it yourself. The chance of having problems with sane loads, and good brass(Lapua/Alpha), is way less than pushing the limits of a cartridge, which many here do very frequently.
Aye.. How many loads you can get from a case is a side bar you guys should take somewhere else. It's fairly common knowledge 40+ is possible with mild loads and minimal sizing. I've got 20+ from Hornady and Remington cases with FL dies every time. Not that any of it has anything to do with the OP.
OP, this thread is useless without pics.
OP, this thread is useless without pics.
OP, this thread is useless without pics.
i thought the same thing until Freddy g started posting....now it’s quite entertaining
To be fair, 100 cycles are very low numbers when you're talking fatigue failure. Fully reversed bending used to generate S-N curves is very different from the largely compression type loading that a pressurized case contained by a barrel wall/bolt would experience, and obviously the S in the S-N curve is going to be different from the case pressure. You'd have to do a lot more math/modeling to draw any remotely useful conclusions about the impact of fatigue life on brass life given a certain geometry and loading.
All of that said, I do think Hornady .308 brass is soft trash, but .270 and 6.5 have worked alright for me in a few different rifles. I usually load warm but not stupid, and the longest I've kept any rifle brass around before moving to a new batch was 13 firings, so maybe that's the difference.
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I'd probably reach out to Hornady with the lot # on that 30-06, they like to know about that kind of thing.
I have used exclusively Hornady brass with pretty hot loads and haven’t had anything this catastrophic. My 2900FPS 147gr load usually has unusable primer pockets in about 3-5 firings, but I have a boatload of it so I’m not overly concerned about brass life.
If OP saw a basically obliterated case, it screams wild pressures to me. Either powder mix up, or maybe a trim length thing? Sure Hornady brass is trash, but I don’t put in the same class as Taurus revolver health hazard level of trash.
If OP saw a basically obliterated case, it screams wild pressures to me. Either powder mix up, or maybe a trim length thing? Sure Hornady brass is trash, but I don’t put in the same class as Taurus revolver health hazard level of trash.
Agree as I pointed out. The stresses are far different and requires finite element modeling to truly determine how well these cases handle the stress.
D
Deleted member 10043
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What kind of factory ammo. I only ask because PPU factory ammo and brass is not good for reloading but PPU brass packaged and sold for reloading is very good.
Apparently, English composition would do you wonders....
Good grief. This isn’t rocket science. They didn’t anneal either. With annealing, medium loads, and neck sizing, the sky is the limit.
A new brass life test: annealing - Page 1 - AR15.COM
Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.www.ar15.com
Now if you wanna get friggin mouthy about it...I'm your Huckleberry...
So you are going to ban me for speaking the truth?
In the link I posted, most of the brass they tested wasn’t annealed. Have you read it?
Where did I say I myself don’t anneal? Please point it out?
I have a couple hundred pieces of brass with partial case-head-separations. None of them is like that. All of my partials are around the circumference in the normal spot. I had one full head separation - fracture is in the normal place. I think I have two pieces with a longitudinal crack in the neck. What are those circumferential scratches around the fracture? If the case was rotated in the chamber I would expect to see scratches in or around the extractor groove. What weapon was that fired in? Does the weapon have a SAAMI chamber?Hornady factory 30-06 ammo first firing......
Just put it on Let Go and move on
Your brass is the greatest brass ever made and will never die. Extremely happy for you and applauding your reloading methods as we speak
What is the status on the actual problem?
@ACK
edit: source
Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc
Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.
www.primalrights.com
Thank god it exploded inside that case,
Who knows how far the pieces would have flown if it wasn’t in there
Talk about lucky!!!
No, you'll get banned for trying to back pedal on shit you posted, and getting mouthy about it.. Take a few days off...
Max load for that rifle successfully identified.... Too bad they weren't using Lapua brass.
