AI AW or AI AX?

[green338 2.0]

AICS isn't an AI. It's a chassis. Sure, a nice one at that...but the action and barrel make the rifle...and so a Surgeon or Rem700 in an AICS is a Surgeon or Rem700..not an AI. The OP asked about which AI...AW or AX. Suggesting an AICS of any sort is way off base. Not bashing them by any means, so no flaming req'd.

Use your imagination as to why a few people would recommend getting behind an aics (aw/ax)chassis first, before making a $6K purchase. I'm not saying an aics chassis is the same as an actual rifle. But, if you can't get behind an actual AW or an AX, and don't know which will fit you better, what the next best thing?

 

[pucker]

Use your imagination as to why a few people would recommend getting behind an aics (aw/ax)chassis first, before making a $6K purchase. I'm not saying an aics chassis is the same as an actual rifle. But, if you can't get behind an actual AW or an AX, and don't know which will fit you better, what the next best thing?

Buy the AX. Not much of a stretch to think he'll love it...and not too many around here are talking about going from an AX back to an AW. "Yeah, I just couldn't get used to being able to mount my bipod and sling anywhere I wanted...or being able to change mags without lifting the butt...or not having a hole for my thumb...so back to the AW for me."

That's how my imagination works at least.

 

[Foweis]

Awesome this is a hell of a site, with great people who actually carry knowledge and info.
I'm going with the AX, I hope I helped and didn't high jack this thread. I was just trying to squeeze it because I was in the same bind.

 

[green338 2.0]

Buy the AX. Not much of a stretch to think he'll love it...and not too many around here are talking about going from an AX back to an AW. "Yeah, I just couldn't get used to being able to mount my bipod and sling anywhere I wanted...or being able to change mags without lifting the butt...or not having a hole for my thumb...so back to the AW for me."

That's how my imagination works at least.

Your points are erroneous. The AW with an Atlas monopod will allow you to change mags without lifting the buttstock. Also, with the AW, you could buy pistol grip skins similar to the AX. Lastly, the AW/AE bipod spigot is one of the best features compared to other rifles in todays market, other than the Sako TRG bipod, of course.

Have you even owned either platform, or are you just going by what your reading on the internet?

BTW: Foweis, I have a lead on an AI AX 308, if you're interested. It will save you some money.

 

[Foweis]

Your points are erroneous. The AW with an Atlas monopod will allow you to change mags without lifting the buttstock. Also, with the AW, you could buy pistol grip skins similar to the AX. Lastly, the AW/AE bipod spigot is one of the best features compared to other rifles in todays market, other than the Sako TRG bipod, of course.

Have you even owned either platform, or are you just going by what your reading on the internet?

BTW: Foweis, I have a lead on an AI AX 308, if you're interested. It will save you some money.

Thank you man, but I already have a trade I sent to milehigh and a down payment, don't have much of a balance left untill they ship. I just wanted to decide incase I needed to switch, but I really apreciate it.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

good i'm glad you got sorted. for others in a bind, i will put this here. i'm with the above post. The AW is an awesome weapon, if the AX fits you awesome, if you like the AI chassis don't feel like you have to go to a AX because its somehow goin to shoot tighter or the action is better. I prefer the AI chassis to the ax, not saying the ax is bad as i have a couple of em simply for arguments sake, but i could easily trade out my aw for an ax yet my aw is a gun that will not leave my safe, just a great gun. If you have a oppurtunity to pick up a AW and like the AICS chassis it is still a groundbreaking weapon that has set the stardard for hard use rifles and will continue to do so.

 

[pucker]

Your points are erroneous. The AW with an Atlas monopod will allow you to change mags without lifting the buttstock. Also, with the AW, you could buy pistol grip skins similar to the AX. Lastly, the AW/AE bipod spigot is one of the best features compared to other rifles in todays market, other than the Sako TRG bipod, of course.

Have you even owned either platform, or are you just going by what your reading on the internet?

BTW: Foweis, I have a lead on an AI AX 308, if you're interested. It will save you some money.

AW still doesn't have the rail. AW still doesn't have the mag cutout. AW has a thumbhole. Of course you can change the skins, or just get the AX. Not sure how any of that is erroneous... Those are all facts. However, whether any of those things are better was just my personal opinion. I did say that the AW would be awesome too...remember. I just like the AX better.

And yes, I do own the AX, for the reasons I've stated. Not a keyboard commando brother, was trying to answer his question. I would ask you if YOU own either, but who cares...you deserve an opinion either way.

 

[tylerw02]

I never could get the overwhelming love of the spigot when the ability to stick a rail and Atlas on an AX in any position you want it is available. One thread people didn't want the AX because it doesn't have a spigot? Insanity!

 

[tomirwin]

Hi, I would just like to make a couple of comments.
1) The AX338 replaced the AAW338 but we are still manufacturing the AW308 and AW300.
2) We are still in production with AW's and will not be "replacing" it. If anything we will improve it but at this time we are still in production of the AW308 and AW300.
3) We are accepting orders for AW but not with any quick adjust features or butt spike.
4) We are not accepting any more orders for 2013 delivery regardless of whether it is an AW, AX or AE but our distributors have plenty on order and we are delivering substantially more product this year than any other, especially in the USA.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

 

[XOR]

I own and AW and considered in the recent past about going to an AX. I got behind an AX chassis system, but not the real thing. The notes about the AW vs. AX below then are part speculative, but hopefully helpful.

My issues with the AX chassis (full disclosure that I have not shot a real AX, just handled the chassis conversions):

- They got rid of a ton of foregrip space on the AW and replaced it with a metal tube that has more attachment points than I could ever use. I don't need 1,000 sq. ft. of picatinny rail on my rifle. I understand that military may need more places to mount NV, illumination, etc. But at some point it gets over the top.

- They got rid of the spigot mount which provided a very solid mounting point for a bipod and quick release. Now I'd have to mount a plate to the rail and a bipod to the plate. More parts to fail.

- To the point above, the new bipod images floating around from AI show it has the spigot mount still on it and you need to mount a plate on the AX chassis to use the spigot. So they got rid of the spigot mount of the AW that was solidly built into the rifle chassis, to replace it with a spigot mount anyway that now has to be bolted on and can come loose on the AX?

- They increased the mounting height of the scope on the AX raising the center of gravity and low bore axis cheek weld of the AW. The scope mounting is much higher on the AX than the AW and higher scope mounting is less stable and makes recoil control worse.

- The loss of rail foregrip space means it's harder for me to do positional shooting/sling shooting without having to grip the relatively narrow and rounded mounting tube. This is not as stable or comfortable when I tried it out. Sometimes when doing sling shooting you need to get your hand far up under the front mounting point. Same for weird shot angles that don't use the sling. Before I had the nice flat bottom foregrip that was stable. Now I have a much more rounded grip area that is potentially more wobbly.

- The front tube is also exposed bare metal so I wonder how cold it will be to handle in winter conditions vs. the plastic covered foregrip area they have today on the AW?

- The side of the rifle action is also more exposed metal so again it will be harder to handle in colder temps. I'd rather have the metal on the rifle that could be contacted with fingers be covered with plastic/composite if possible.

- The side insert magazine well loses structural integrity against side impacts and offers no real advantages that I can see. I can't think of a time where I've run out of ammo and haven't had to break position to reach for a magazine and insert it. Other than perfectly calm prone slow-fire with my magazines lying neatly next to my position, the side opened magazine well doesn't really buy me much. The straight insert AW magazine operation is simple and reliable. No need to rock and lock, etc.

- On the AW I can use the thumbhole stock if I want or switch to pistol grip sides if I want. On the AX you get only the pistol grip.

- The AX has more sharp edges, holes, and places to catch on clothing, straps, brush, etc. due to the fore end tube and hook like rear stock.

- Speculation: The very flat long bottom of the AW foregrip is likely more stable when doing barricade shooting than the relatively more rounded and narrower AX front tube. Have to test this however.

- The AX seems more like it is optimized for prone position shooting. It looks like a less comfortable rifle for non-prone shooting vs. the AW.

- The AX is only marginally lighter than the AW. Why didn't AI try to knock off a lot of the weight from the AW? Why not try to make their new rifle 1/3rd lighter for instance? I'm not a soldier, but I suspect most would much rather have a lighter weapon that was more comfortable to carry for long distances. It's easy to make a heavy gun and many manufacturers are doing that. AI should show some innovation here with new materials and go the opposite direction and make something lightweight and as durable as the existing AW.

- The adjustable trigger on the AX is fine, but seems more like a target rifle feature. However the trigger group should be made available on the AW if people want it. I am fine with the fixed trigger as it is one less thing to go wrong.

Then there are the marketing considerations that don't pertain to the shooter, but the AI brand:

- They took one of the most recognized, tested, unique, and successful sniper weapon systems in the world (AW) and changed everything about its looks and ergonomics with the AX. Companies that have tried this with their products in the past have had mixed success, and some really bad explosions (Remember New Coke?). If it wasn't broke, why fix it?

- They made the look of the AX imitate virtually every other PSR wannabe system on the planet, thereby eroding their unique brand image and look of the AI series. It now looks like every other tactical rifle coming out today. The AW chassis was and is unique and serious shooters (and even video game players!) know what it is. The AX looks like a Remington PSR, Sako M110, FN Ballista PSR, etc. now. The unique look is gone. Is that what they want?

- I am glad the PSR contract is over. I think it pulled all these companies the wrong direction. But I'm not military so I don't really know what they want. But if I was a soldier I'd want a lighter weapon and less sharp pointy bits to poke me and catch on my gear. Yet all the PSR weapons are heavy, have lots of picatinny madness and adjustable doodads all over that hang out like big meat hooks ready to grab anything that passes too close. The hyper elevated cheekrest and buttplate extensions are great examples. I think they are fine for target guns, but I don't know if I'd want that in combat or running around in the field all day banging through brush. They look fragile with parts to lose, bend, catch on everything, etc. I think a good rifle should be simple and smooth with solid adjustable parts (using spacers for instance) that won't break, rattle off easily and won't snag. This is exactly what the PSR-style rifles don't have.

Again I'm not a pro shooter or military guy so I'm just speaking from my own use banging the things around in the field for a few years and doing some competitions. So I guess in a way I'm being selfish about what I'd want, but I suspect I wouldn't be alone in these feelings. However the above is why I stuck with the AW over the AX.

 

[tylerw02]

How exactly is the spigot less likely to fail than a simple piece of rail? How is it somehow better to always have the bipod in only one position rather than the ability to move it around as need be? There are times I've moved the bipod back toward the butt of the rifle because there simply wasn't room for it out at the end, giving me the ability to use the bipod that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I'd have had to used a pack or bag.

The adjustable trigger makes it usable for far more people...its an ergonomic improvement. For me, from the factory, it needed adjusted. I waited until I'd had about 100 rounds down it before adjusting. Once I adjusted it, I began shooting better with fewer flyers.

I went from a custom rifle with a Manners to shooting an AX and my first match my score drastically increased--lots of which is based around positional shooting and not in the prone. I attribute it to the ergonomics of the AX in positions OTHER than prone.

Thus far, I've not had any issues with my rifle catching brush or clothing. The only "new" sharp edges I've come across are the pic rail at 12 o'clock, but it hasn't been a problem. That's the beauty of the keymod, put rails where you want, as needed. I really wish they would eliminate the loop on the right hand side of the folding stock, though. It serves no purpose. I've slammed into that more than once on my old AE.

On barricades, I usually throw down a bag. I didn't like my old flat-bottom AE on barricades because it seemed top heavy and I never could get completely stable. Also, the stud for the Harris was always catching things. With the AX, I slide my squeeze-bag loop around the handguard and use that, thus far, with good success. I'm actually thinking about acquiring an additional bag and replace the normal loop with a Velcro strap to make it faster.

With the side of the action being exposed matters not to me. How is it harder to handle? If its too cold to touch steel, I'm probably wearing gloves already. Covering it up would have added weight.

With the cutout on the magwell, I really don't think that is the weak link and that the AX lacks structural integrity. Perhaps as they get older and have been fielded more that may become an issue, but I highly suspect it won't. I really don't see any way for AI to lighten the rifle up, per your request, without also doing things you will be critical of for "compromising structural integrity".

Also, on the thumbhole, I believe they are going to offer a conversion. As I understand it, the rear section of a new-style skins will work, but I haven't tried it out myself.

On the consmetic stuff, I'll agree its an ugly-ass rifle, but its very practical. I hated them when they first came out but saw people using them and finally got behind one. The ergos are there, and that's when I had to have one. Thus far I really, really, really like it. I'm glad they aren't getting rid of the AW, though. It gives guys the choice to make for themselves.

 

[poison123]

Hi, I would just like to make a couple of comments.
1) The AX338 replaced the AAW338 but we are still manufacturing the AW308 and AW300.
2) We are still in production with AW's and will not be "replacing" it. If anything we will improve it but at this time we are still in production of the AW308 and AW300.
3) We are accepting orders for AW but not with any quick adjust features or butt spike.
4) We are not accepting any more orders for 2013 delivery regardless of whether it is an AW, AX or AE but our distributors have plenty on order and we are delivering substantially more product this year than any other, especially in the USA.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

Any chance of seeing a 300wm AX any time soon? I'd get the PSR.....but I don't even remotely need the 338 stuff in that kit.

 

[XOR]

How exactly is the spigot less likely to fail than a simple piece of rail? How is it somehow better to always have the bipod in only one position rather than the ability to move it around as need be? There are times I've moved the bipod back toward the butt of the rifle because there simply wasn't room for it out at the end, giving me the ability to use the bipod that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I'd have had to used a pack or bag.

It's just that it's part of the chassis. There is a big roll pin to make it come out if I recall, but otherwise it just won't move. So just one less thing to go wrong.

But also realize that as a shooter I tend to grab all over the foregrip area with my hand depending on what is needed. So I don't want the bipod in that vicinity at all. I just prefer it on a spigot like the AW or TRG. It's also quick to take on and off which I've used when shooting under time pressure.

The adjustable trigger makes it usable for far more people...its an ergonomic improvement. For me, from the factory, it needed adjusted. I waited until I'd had about 100 rounds down it before adjusting. Once I adjusted it, I began shooting better with fewer flyers.

Yes I can see that. I'm not a person that grabs a grip on a rifle. My thumb rides next to my hand because I find I have less sympathetic hand movements when squeezing the trigger causing aiming issues. So for me the trigger moving back and forth doesn't matter because my grip is not wrapped around the rifle mostly. But even when I do grab the thumbhole, I don't find it an issue. But again this is all user dependent. And again as well, the trigger group can be made an option on the AW. I think they are interchangeable from what someone else was told.

I really wish they would eliminate the loop on the right hand side of the folding stock, though. It serves no purpose. I've slammed into that more than once on my old AE.

I agree. I almost cut it off my AW more than once. I think it's there so you can carry slung with the rear folded for guys jumping out of planes, etc..

On barricades, I usually throw down a bag. I didn't like my old flat-bottom AE on barricades because it seemed top heavy and I never could get completely stable. Also, the stud for the Harris was always catching things. With the AX, I slide my squeeze-bag loop around the handguard and use that, thus far, with good success. I'm actually thinking about acquiring an additional bag and replace the normal loop with a Velcro strap to make it faster.

In this regard I like the tube over the barrel because you can wrap items around it and not worry about affecting accuracy.

With the cutout on the magwell, I really don't think that is the weak link and that the AX lacks structural integrity. Perhaps as they get older and have been fielded more that may become an issue, but I highly suspect it won't.

I don't know either. I notice they put a lip on the magazines for the AX perhaps to make it stronger? Don't know.

I really don't see any way for AI to lighten the rifle up, per your request, without also doing things you will be critical of for "compromising structural integrity".

Why not get it down to the weight of the TRG but maintain aspects of the stock that make it stronger than the TRG? The TRG handles better in many areas simply due to the lower weight. 2-3lbs is a huge difference.

On the consmetic stuff, I'll agree its an ugly-ass rifle, but its very practical. I hated them when they first came out but saw people using them and finally got behind one. The ergos are there, and that's when I had to have one. Thus far I really, really, really like it. I'm glad they aren't getting rid of the AW, though. It gives guys the choice to make for themselves.

Again in fairness I need to try one out. Still not stoked on the higher optics mount and missing spigot. The pistol grip I could give or take. I don't use it anyway. Same for the mounting options.

Just putting out an alternate viewpoint. I may totally convert once I get behind a real AX so who knows...

 

[tomirwin]

XOR,
Thanks for your comments and I would just like to respond.
Since Accuracy International began in the 80's we have primarily responded to the demands of military and law enforcement customers. As a result we started with the L96 followed by the AW and then the AX. All direct results of military specifications and user input from military snipers. That is our heritage and still our primary customer worldwide. We have also taken account of Law Enforcement needs and we came up with the AE just over 10 years ago. The AICS was a result of a demand from civilian users. All of our rifles and chassis systems have a tactical look to them. The L96 was the first purpose designed tactical rifle for military snipers. Before that and for many years after everything was a customized hunting rifle. Now the rest of the world has caught up. That does not mean we stand still or are just like all of the other tactical rifles coming out today. There are features on our AX which differentiate it from others and many people like it enough to buy it. We still make the AW and intend to make it better but you still have an AW with all of the features you like.
We are striving hard to satisfy not only our military and law enforcement customers but our civilian customers as well but having a range of products and accessories to suit everyone. We have improved our products, increased our production and continue to do so including assembly of AICS in the USA which we have been doing for 7 years. We will also be increasing our rifle assembly in the USA so our products will be available to more of our US customers.
All of that being said, I am glad you like our AW.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

 

[tylerw02]

I may totally convert once I get behind a real AX so who knows...

Don't do it, don't get behind one. Your wallet will thank you! I don't even notice the scope setting high. I adjust the cheek to suit and roll. It feels about like shooting a scoped AR, except way more accurate and reliable.

 

[Mute]

I loved the AW and didn't think they could improve on it much (other than dropping some weight). I was wrong. I actually found the AX to be more comfortable and easier to use both in prone and various positional shooting. The rail has not proven to be an issue (since it's not a picatinny and is smooth) from a comfort perspective. And while they didn't drop all that much weight between the AW and the AX, I found it to be just enough to make the AX less fatiguing to use over a long stretch.

 

[pucker]

Tom,
Thanks for the input...Always good to hear definitive answers. I assumed (bad idea typically) that the 308/300WM would follow the 338's for AX replacing the AW. You guys must have found enough market interest for keeping those in the AW...but not the 338?

XOR,
You made some great points for the AW, and that's probably the sort of thing that led AI to keep the AW in production. I also like its aethestics...still strikes me as the quintessential 'sniper's' rifle. Heck, AI still uses it on their t-shirts! That said, I am with Tyler and Mute...the AX just 'fit' me and enjoy the versatility.

 

[beenjammin]

XOR, Dude you AW trigger is not fixed. You can adjust the heck out of it. The shoe is fixed ( prolly what you meant). The AX trigger is more like the TRG . The scope is really not much higher then the AW. Both rifles use the exact same receiver. I have not found the recoil to be any less manageable, they are both heavy .308 rifle anyway where recoil is pretty much negligible. I feel the AX gives the shooter more control with the bipod being much closer to the barrel and further out from the shooter giving more stability. The shooter also has the choice on where to position the bipod and sling along the barrel tube. While there is no spigot I admit, it does come with a harris and pic rail attachment to adapt more of the bipods on the present market. While I have to admit I hated the looks of the AX and swore not to sell my AW for one, I ended up caving in and getting one when they actually cost a little less then an AW.

One downside to the AX is that it does take a bit longer for barrel changes. You have to remove 8 bolts to remove the barrel tube to access the barrel ( which I feel is excessive) and this is after you have removed the other two bolts to remove the hand guard first. The AW is as easy as pulling the barrel and replacing with another.

Im thinking the next AI will be an AX derivative with the PSR style folding butt. There was an AX AICS with the PSR stock at SHOT. I hope it will use a system of faster barrel access then the present AX.

 

[long range newbie]

don't have either but the ax seems more comfortable and more versatile. I've seen no complaints for the ax so its really, really hard choice

 

[XOR]

XOR,
Thanks for your comments and I would just like to respond.
Since Accuracy International began in the 80's we have primarily responded to the demands of military and law enforcement customers. As a result we started with the L96 followed by the AW and then the AX. All direct results of military specifications and user input from military snipers. That is our heritage and still our primary customer worldwide. We have also taken account of Law Enforcement needs and we came up with the AE just over 10 years ago. The AICS was a result of a demand from civilian users. All of our rifles and chassis systems have a tactical look to them. The L96 was the first purpose designed tactical rifle for military snipers. Before that and for many years after everything was a customized hunting rifle. Now the rest of the world has caught up. That does not mean we stand still or are just like all of the other tactical rifles coming out today. There are features on our AX which differentiate it from others and many people like it enough to buy it. We still make the AW and intend to make it better but you still have an AW with all of the features you like.
We are striving hard to satisfy not only our military and law enforcement customers but our civilian customers as well but having a range of products and accessories to suit everyone. We have improved our products, increased our production and continue to do so including assembly of AICS in the USA which we have been doing for 7 years. We will also be increasing our rifle assembly in the USA so our products will be available to more of our US customers.
All of that being said, I am glad you like our AW.
Tom Irwin
Accuracy International

Thanks Tom.

Just to be clear I am a diehard AI fan. Whether an AW or AX they are great rifles. If I had to sell all my firearms, my AI would be the absolute last to go.

And honestly I'm not expecting AI to take the comments of the Internet peanut gallery from people like me seriously. I'm not in the business and do not have visibility into your military requirements. My needs are far different from people jumping out of planes for a living into war zones.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

i just wish that the US military would stop dropping remingtons into AI chassis and freaking buy AI's, although i do like supporting US companies Remington isn't in the same state as AI as far as hard use rifles. I guess we will see how many MSR's i can break.

 

[Foweis]

It's all about the budget man. You no that. At least now the marines with 1911's.

 

[RyanScott]

For the amount of money that the USG is spending on Remingtons they could buy AIs. They don't pay what you or I pay.

 

[pucker]

I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with the former mil heavies that work at these US companies. Don't get me wrong, I love to buy American too. But the contract should be solely based on performance, and leave politics out of it.

Hey Joe, maybe AI will bring you on when you're ready to hang up your fixed blade...and you can help level the lobbying playing-field.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

@ Tom Irwin - Tom, do you see the .300WM being released in an AX?


TIA

 

[Defusion]

In a previous thread Tom mentioned 2014 for a 300wm AX.
I'm looking forward to one as well. Sadly, I can't own a 338.

Actually, it was your thread: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/184840-ai-awm-300-win-mag.html

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Thank you Defusion.