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Rifle Scopes AI AXMC recommended scope

jwl45auto

jwl45auto

Private
Minuteman
Apr 21, 2020
22
11
#1
Hello,

long time lurker, first time poster. I’m in the market for a scope...
  • What is the platform for the scope? AI AXMC
  • What cartridge are you shooting? Definitely 338 LM, probably 308 or other Mammoth legal cartridge for primary shooter
  • What is your intended use for the scope? Mammoth Sniper Challenge, long range steel shooting, hunting (elk in Colorado)
  • What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? dawn, dusk, in between, probably not at night or with night vision gear
  • What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 1000+ yds When able, local ranges here in southern Indiana are more like a few hundred
  • Are there any specific specifications you would like? mils preferred, I think I like FFP over SFP. weight matters, but I am not afraid of backpacking in for an elk hunt on the continental divide
  • What is the price range you can afford? Price is not an issue per se, but I am looking for best options I the $1-2k range and $2-3k range. I have other interests and hobbies that could also use some cash. I can spend more, but I am new to long range shooting and would rather spend the money on training and lots of ammo than a scope that’s the best ever but beyond my ability to make use of.
 
#3
I would recommend looking at the Nightforce ATACR 7-35 (heavy and maybe not ideal for mammoth but excellent for long-range), the Schmidt and Bender PM2 5-25, this is an iconic combo with the AI in a spuhr as many special forces teams use this exact combo, Leupold Mark 5HD, this just one a US SOCOM contract and is a very lightweight package under 2K dollars (max 20 zoom but very ligthweight). ZCO and Tangent Theta also among high-end brands but maybe more than you are looking to spend and not something I have experience with
 
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#5
black max said:
Let me get this straight, you own an AXMC and don't know where to begin with an optic choice? Why would you worry about saving money for ammo and/or training when you bought an AXMC? You also stated that weight matters, and you bought an AXMC. LMAO!
Click to expand...
Wow, way to crap on a new member with excellent taste in rifles and a great plan to prioritize training.

OP, I would recommend a vortex Razor 4.5-27 or a Bushnell XRS II. Both are excellent scopes that re-zero easily for your multicaliber platform. There are two great vendors here they can give you a smokin’ deal: liberty optics and gr8tfuldoug with camera land.

Welcome!
 
#6
Zorfunk said:
Wow, way to crap on a new member with excellent taste in rifles and a great plan to prioritize training.

OP, I would recommend a vortex Razor 4.5-27 or a Bushnell XRS II. Both are excellent scopes that re-zero easily for your multicaliber platform. There are two great vendors here they can give you a smokin’ deal: liberty optics and gr8tfuldoug with camera land.

Welcome!
Click to expand...
Fucking question gets asked 18x every fucking day. How many times can it be answered???
 
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#9
Nightforce BEAST
20171219_100648.jpg
 
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#10
black max said:
Let me get this straight, you own an AXMC and don't know where to begin with an optic choice? Why would you worry about saving money for ammo and/or training when you bought an AXMC? You also stated that weight matters, and you bought an AXMC. LMAO!
Click to expand...

I have a very good idea of where to start, but exploring options/opinions before committing bucks is usually a wise course of action. I’m willing to carry extra weight that is value added.
 
#11
Maurygold said:
I would recommend looking at the Nightforce ATACR 7-35 (heavy and maybe not ideal for mammoth but excellent for long-range), the Schmidt and Bender PM2 5-25, this is an iconic combo with the AI in a spuhr as many special forces teams use this exact combo, Leupold Mark 5HD, this just one a US SOCOM contract and is a very lightweight package under 2K dollars (max 20 zoom but very ligthweight). ZCO and Tangent Theta also among high-end brands but maybe more than you are looking to spend and not something I have experience with
Click to expand...
Thanks for the useful feedback
 
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#12
Question is, do you want to buy something cheaper and upgrade later or just fined the right scope right now?

So many options, find a reticle you like and then backtrack from there.
 
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#13
diverdon said:
S&B 3-27 with a reticle you like, done.
Click to expand...
Zorfunk said:
Wow, way to crap on a new member with excellent taste in rifles and a great plan to prioritize training.

OP, I would recommend a vortex Razor 4.5-27 or a Bushnell XRS II. Both are excellent scopes that re-zero easily for your multicaliber platform. There are two great vendors here they can give you a smokin’ deal: liberty optics and gr8tfuldoug with camera land.

Welcome!
Click to expand...

thanks. I’d love the S&B upfront, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m afraid I’ll attend a few training courses and my taste in reticle will change. The Razor has had my attention for awhile for all the reasons that lots of people like them.
 
#17
alfmoonspace said:
Question is, do you want to buy something cheaper and upgrade later or just fined the right scope right now?

So many options, find a reticle you like and then backtrack from there.
Click to expand...

I am tempted to explore cheaper options now and upgrade later. There are other rifles that could inherit the cheaper scope once I upgrade.
 
#20
I have a Tangent Theta 5-25 with Gen3XR reticle on mine and I would do it again if I had to. My Desert Tech has a 7-35 ATACR with Mil-XT reticle and my main match rifle (6 Dasher in an MPA competition chassis) sports a Minox 5-25 with the MR4 reticle. Of the three I mentioned, the only one I might replace is the Nightforce, and then it's only to buy another Tangent Theta, but I need to spend more time behind it before I decide
 
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#21
You mentioned you're new to LR shooting, have you had a mid or high mag scope before? If so, is there a reticle you have used and prefer? If not, there are many options, for the AXMC though and the switch barrel capability the Tangent Theta 5-25 and Schmidt Bender 5-25 PM2 would be my recommendations due to the ease of changing zero and built in below "zero" stops (.5-.6 below zero usually). The ATACR line is great as well but if you plan to switch calibers and zeros often I think there are other options that offer a quicker zero stop/zero change and less moving parts to mess with.

But, since you have no budget I would just buy one of each and keep the one you like the most. :cool:
 
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#22
If Im gonna be honest about an answer to your question then you do need to look and study reticles and try to understand what You need in a reticle for your choice of shooting venues then go look at the "bigdog " scope manufacturers(Leupold Mark5 HD, Nightforce ATACR&BEAST, Tangent Theta, ZCO, Kahles, etc) because that AI AXMC deserves to wear that type of quality of glass imho. You did say price is not an issue per say. You would be doing that rifle an injustice if you stick any kind of "OK" scope on it, but thats my opinion. Congrats on having a nice rifle and hope you find the scope your looking for. Cant go wrong with a Schmidt PMii'just sayin...

-Reagan
 
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#24
I absolutely love the S and B PMII 5-25. But I think choosing a reticle is more important. Pick a reticle you like then start looking at scopes that offer it. Wish someone had offered me that advice when I started. So I guess I would buy a scope that you could easily resell later if you don’t like it. So buy used (vortex?) then use it find what you like and don’t like then sell (or keep?) and buy your dream scope. Just my two cents.
 
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#29
ShaoKahn said:
Great answer. I’m just confused though, why do people recommend the 5-25 that has tunneling at 5-7x, when you can just get the 3-27 which has a larger field of view at 3x and a higher magnification at 7x. Is it just the price? Weight difference?
Click to expand...
I couldnt speak for others, but I feel more people in general have experience with the 5-25 that the newer 3-27, basically because its been out alot longer. I dont think the tunneling is that bad, like bad enough I cant live with it, but thats my opinion, amd I was aware of that when I bought it and seen "other" brands actually do the same thing at low mag...anyways, if I had a no limit budget I would probably go with a newer PMii just because it is newer, but the 5-25 is pretty much bulletproof and has been through a "few" gunfights around the world for some time, I bet the 3-27 wouldnt do any worse either when put to work. Both are great scopes. Sh_t, for the most part, all the scopes mentioned in this thread are great..

-Reagan
 
#30
ShaoKahn said:
Great answer. I’m just confused though, why do people recommend the 5-25 that has tunneling at 5-7x, when you can just get the 3-27 which has a larger field of view at 3x and a higher magnification at 7x. Is it just the price? Weight difference?.
Click to expand...
Good question. State of the art vs legacy design
 
#31
ShaoKahn said:
Great answer. I’m just confused though, why do people recommend the 5-25 that has tunneling at 5-7x, when you can just get the 3-27 which has a larger field of view at 3x and a higher magnification at 7x. Is it just the price? Weight difference?
Click to expand...

Cant speak for others but in my experience with the 3-27 and 5-25 I notice better overall optics throughout the mag range with the 5-25 than with the 3-27. I still really like the 3-27 especially the mag ring, but I noticed less forgiving eye relief on the 3-27 and I felt it to be exceptional at short to mid range and good at long range while the 5-25 was exceptional at long range. The 3-27 doesn't tunnel and has a crazy wide FOV at 3x but also makes the reticle very thin at low mag, depending on which one. A few more scientific reviewers on here have noted its tougher to maintain exceptional optics with a 9x erector vs a 5x. Don't get me wrong the 3-27 is still dang good, but IMO you're not buying a AXMC for short range (atleast I didnt lol). There is also usually a pretty good price increase from the 5-25 to the 3-27 and I just prefer the feel and optics on the 5-25. As with most scopes though the user preference(s) is/are a big factor, and from that there are usually different views on each optic, there's a thread here that discusses the 3-27 a bit too: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/schmidt-bender-3-27x56.6904621/

But if you're ballin with no budget maybe skip them both and try the 5-45? :)
 
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#32
Widowmaker0001 said:
I couldnt speak for others, but I feel more people in general have experience with the 5-25 that the newer 3-27, basically because its been out alot longer. I dont think the tunneling is that bad, like bad enough I cant live with it, but thats my opinion, amd I was aware of that when I bought it and seen "other" brands actually do the same thing at low mag...anyways, if I had a no limit budget I would probably go with a newer PMii just because it is newer, but the 5-25 is pretty much bulletproof and has been through a "few" gunfights around the world for some time, I bet the 3-27 wouldnt do any worse either when put to work. Both are great scopes. Sh_t, for the most part, all the scopes mentioned in this thread are great..

-Reagan
Click to expand...
diverdon said:
Good question. State of the art vs legacy design
Click to expand...
TangoSierra916 said:
Cant speak for others but in my experience with the 3-27 and 5-25 I notice better overall optics throughout the mag range with the 5-25 than with the 3-27. I still really like the 3-27 especially the mag ring, but I noticed less forgiving eye relief on the 3-27 and I felt it to be exceptional at short to mid range and good at long range while the 5-25 was exceptional at long range. The 3-27 doesn't tunnel and has a crazy wide FOV at 3x but also makes the reticle very thin at low mag, depending on which one. A few more scientific reviewers on here have noted its tougher to maintain exceptional optics with a 9x erector vs a 5x. Don't get me wrong the 3-27 is still dang good, but IMO you're not buying a AXMC for short range (atleast I didnt lol). There is also usually a pretty good price increase from the 5-25 to the 3-27 and I just prefer the feel and optics on the 5-25. As with most scopes though the user preference(s) is/are a big factor, and from that there are usually different views on each optic, there's a thread here that discusses the 3-27 a bit too: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/schmidt-bender-3-27x56.6904621/

But if you're ballin with no budget maybe skip them both and try the 5-45? :)
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. I appreciate the explanation. It seems the 3-27 is pretty much the same price as the 5-45 though. :unsure:
 
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#34
jwl45auto said:
I am tempted to explore cheaper options now and upgrade later. There are other rifles that could inherit the cheaper scope once I upgrade.
Click to expand...

Agree - if you really don't know what you want, the criteria you set may not even be correct in the end. Gotta get shooting behind something. I chose the Trijicon 5-50 in mils (better reticle over the MOA version) - it is a re-branded Delta Stryker, and it's available under 2K. It may not be what I ultimately pick for my "best" rifle, but the value, mag range, and feature set is there to be able to figure out some things I like/dislike and need vs want. Love it so far.

Trijicon AccuPower® 5-50x56 Riflescope | Trijicon®

MRAD Crosshair w/ Red/Green LED
www.trijicon.com www.trijicon.com
 
#35
since most of your shooting will be inclose you can get away with higher magnification

shooting groups on paper with higher magnification is like cheating, i love it

i would definetly get some training and see what Mammoth is really about...no joke competition.
that one wouldnt be my comp out of the gate

i have a BEAST sitting around, if wanted

5-45 is a really nice scope have 2.
one T3 ret
one LRR

i do like both, im one of the few who like the wind dots on the T3

humping a AXMC with a heavy scope in the mountains gets old very quick, youll change your mind after the first 5 miles
buy a scope that you move from you AXMC to your hunting rifle (same scope etc) is a much better idea

if you cand find a used ATACR i think youll be more than fine to start, very good scope and close to the price point
 
#36
I put a MK5 5-25 T3 on my PSR and have zero regrets. Not because of a budget because I can afford any optic I want, but because the scopes impress me that much. The quality and performance far exceed their price point. I felt a little bad at first because to me there’s just something about a S&B on an AI that’s nostalgic and I love the S&B 5-25’s, but they are not perfect optics.

Unless for whatever reason leupold QC takes a turn downhill (hope not because they’re doing an amazing job right now) I don’t see myself looking anywhere else for long range optics.

I also put the same optic on my SPR. Also no regrets, even with the size. I’ve had a couple of the 3.6-18’s too and they’re equally impressive but I wanted to keep both optics the same.


 
#37
jwl45auto said:
Hello,

long time lurker, first time poster. I’m in the market for a scope...
  • What is the platform for the scope? AI AXMC
  • What cartridge are you shooting? Definitely 338 LM, probably 308 or other Mammoth legal cartridge for primary shooter
  • What is your intended use for the scope? Mammoth Sniper Challenge, long range steel shooting, hunting (elk in Colorado)
  • What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? dawn, dusk, in between, probably not at night or with night vision gear
  • What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 1000+ yds When able, local ranges here in southern Indiana are more like a few hundred
  • Are there any specific specifications you would like? mils preferred, I think I like FFP over SFP. weight matters, but I am not afraid of backpacking in for an elk hunt on the continental divide
  • What is the price range you can afford? Price is not an issue per se, but I am looking for best options I the $1-2k range and $2-3k range. I have other interests and hobbies that could also use some cash. I can spend more, but I am new to long range shooting and would rather spend the money on training and lots of ammo than a scope that’s the best ever but beyond my ability to make use of.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Hide. I have a ATACR 7-35 MIL-XT in a SPUHR on my AXMC. It's a fantastic optic, love the reticle, and it just looks like it belongs on a rifle like that. That having been said, If you didn't want to spend that kind of money I would recommend the Leupold Mark 5 or a Kahles 525. The Leupold is a phenomenal scope for the money. Great glass, very audible and tactile turrets, and very easy to re-zero. If you're like me and are constantly changing barrels, a scope that's easy to re-zero and reset the zero stop is important. A lot of guys will dump on the Kahles, but if you can find a used one for a good price it's another good option. The left side windage is cool and the SKMR3 reticle is usable without being overly congested. It's also very easy to reset zero. Good luck and congrats on an awesome rifle.
 
#39
redneckbmxer24 said:
I put a MK5 5-25 T3 on my PSR and have zero regrets. Not because of a budget because I can afford any optic I want, but because the scopes impress me that much. The quality and performance far exceed their price point. I felt a little bad at first because to me there’s just something about a S&B on an AI that’s nostalgic and I love the S&B 5-25’s, but they are not perfect optics.

Unless for whatever reason leupold QC takes a turn downhill (hope not because they’re doing an amazing job right now) I don’t see myself looking anywhere else for long range optics.

I also put the same optic on my SPR. Also no regrets, even with the size. I’ve had a couple of the 3.6-18’s too and they’re equally impressive but I wanted to keep both optics the same.


Click to expand...

Mark5HD's are nice, but honestly not the best glass out there once you shop scopes in the highend range..Also, the price jump just for illumination is kinda rediculous🤷‍♂️

-Reagan
 
#40
Widowmaker0001 said:
Mark5HD's are nice, but honestly not the best glass out there once you shop scopes in the highend range..Also, the price jump just for illumination is kinda rediculous🤷‍♂️

-Reagan
Click to expand...

The absolute best glass? No, but the glass quality is great. Absolutely positively better than NF or Razor HD glass. Is it S&B or TT level? No but that's splitting hairs and you can buy two Mark 5's for what those cost.

The owner of that S&B in the picture I posted says that the Mark 5 doesn't fatigue his eye like his S&B does. He just got two Mark 5 5-25's for family members after playing with both of mine (he already had a 3.6-18 Mark 5), and is talking about swapping his S&B for a Mark 5... but yeah, Mark 5's aren't as good. Keep telling yourself that.
 
#41
redneckbmxer24 said:
The absolute best glass? No, but the glass quality is great. Absolutely positively better than NF or Razor HD glass. Is it S&B or TT level? No but that's splitting hairs and you can buy two Mark 5's for what those cost.

The owner of that S&B in the picture I posted says that the Mark 5 doesn't fatigue his eye like his S&B does. He just got two Mark 5 5-25's for family members after playing with both of mine (he already had a 3.6-18 Mark 5), and is talking about swapping his S&B for a Mark 5... but yeah, Mark 5's aren't as good. Keep telling yourself that.
Click to expand...
Sure buddy, sounds like you work for Leupold. Im more than happy with my PMii's and Im not looking at buying a Mark5, Ever🤦‍♂️Go blow Leupy smoke at some one else please..Thanks

-Reagan
 
#42
redneckbmxer24 said:
The absolute best glass? No, but the glass quality is great. Absolutely positively better than NF or Razor HD glass. Is it S&B or TT level? No but that's splitting hairs and you can buy two Mark 5's for what those cost.

The owner of that S&B in the picture I posted says that the Mark 5 doesn't fatigue his eye like his S&B does. He just got two Mark 5 5-25's for family members after playing with both of mine (he already had a 3.6-18 Mark 5), and is talking about swapping his S&B for a Mark 5... but yeah, Mark 5's aren't as good. Keep telling yourself that.
Click to expand...
After reading your reply again I realized you contradict yourself. You say,"is it SB or TT level?" then answer with NO and try to justify its lower price for what you get...then go on and say how the SB owner in your pic has bought 2 Mark5s and now is gonna sell his SB? Kinda weird🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️Mark5's fit the bill for most in that price category but why do you think everyone compares the best glass and all new high end scopes to a SB? Its the damn BenchMark thats why. I have Leupolds to on my hunting rigs btw...they work great too

-Reagan
 
#43
Widowmaker0001 said:
After reading your reply again I realized you contradict yourself. You say,"is it SB or TT level?" then answer with NO and try to justify its lower price for what you get...then go on and say how the SB owner in your pic has bought 2 Mark5s and now is gonna sell his SB? Kinda weird🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️Mark5's fit the bill for most in that price category but why do you think everyone compares the best glass and all new high end scopes to a SB? Its the damn BenchMark thats why. I have Leupolds to on my hunting rigs btw...they work great too

-Reagan
Click to expand...

I didn't contradict a fucking thing. It's my opinion that the Mark 5's glass quality is just barely behind S&B, and his opinion that the Mark 5 looks better. I've owned at least two dozen Schmidt PMII's mostly 5-25's, and a few Ultra short 3-20's and 5-20's. I've had two 3.6-18 Mark 5's and two 5-25 Mark 5's and yes, they are on the level of Schmidt. Yes I think the glass quality in the Schmidt is just a touch better and I mean a very very small advantage, but the Mark 5 has advantages over the Schmidt too and glass quality isn't the end all be all measure of an optic. The Mark 5 doesn't tunnel below 7.5x like the S&B does effectively making it a 7.5-25, the Mark 5 turrets are way fucking better than the S&B's, it has more internal travel, it has a capped windage knob and it's a half pound lighter. Literally the only advantage the S&B has on it is that touch better glass quality, and the Mark 5 has all those advantages I just listed over it. So, you tell me which is the better optic between those two.
 
#44
Also I have to add, imho, I feel Leupold sold there soul per say, they had the Mark6 out, people complained about certain issues, they release their Mark 8 and charge Alot for those models but you barely hear anyone using them, then they come out with the Mark5 and say its the scope with all the improvements the other "more expensive" Mark6 and Mark8 didnt get or get right, and charge about a 1-2k less in price. So if I was one of the guys who bought a Mark6 or Mark8 Id actually be quite upset. I dont see Schmidt and Bender doing that to their customers, they are yet to release a better scope than the PMii and charge less for getting more because they dont want to hurt the repution theyve gained with the PMii, or undermind theyre top product at all. Thats a more stand-by product in my eyes. Thats my opinion, we all have our own, blah blah blah. .
redneckbmxer24 said:
I didn't contradict a fucking thing. It's my opinion that the Mark 5's glass quality is just barely behind S&B, and his opinion that the Mark 5 looks better. I've owned at least two dozen Schmidt PMII's mostly 5-25's, and a few Ultra short 3-20's and 5-20's. I've had two 3.6-18 Mark 5's and two 5-25 Mark 5's and yes, they are on the level of Schmidt. Yes I think the glass quality in the Schmidt is just a touch better and I mean a very very small advantage, but the Mark 5 has advantages over the Schmidt too and glass quality isn't the end all be all measure of an optic. The Mark 5 doesn't tunnel below 7.5x like the S&B does effectively making it a 7.5-25, the Mark 5 turrets are way fucking better than the S&B's, it has more internal travel, it has a capped windage knob and it's a half pound lighter. Literally the only advantage the S&B has on it is that touch better glass quality, and the Mark 5 has all those advantages I just listed over it. So, you tell me which is the better optic between those two.
Click to expand...
Um, yeah you did. Do you even know what contradict yourself means? Oh my bad, youve had 2 dozen/24 Schmidt PMii's? Guess your the SB expert then, Ive only used 2 and that was in the sandbox, but what do I know...

-Reagan
 
#47
Mute said:
I suggest you hook up with a few different people with different scopes and see which reticle you prefer before dumping money on something you may not like. Some scopes hold their value well, others not so much.
Click to expand...
This is solid advice though, it’s always best to look through the scopes you want to buy especially outside. I’m lucky enough to live close to MHSA and checked out a MK5, ZCO, Kahles, and NF after looking through my buddies S&B’s. They were kind enough to let me go out side with them and compare them. The ZCO was a little rich for my blood so I settled on the S&B. Any scope in the 2-3k range will do you great.
 
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#48
Widowmaker0001 said:
Also I have to add, imho, I feel Leupold sold there soul per say, they had the Mark6 out, people complained about certain issues, they release their Mark 8 and charge Alot for those models but you barely hear anyone using them, then they come out with the Mark5 and say its the scope with all the improvements the other "more expensive" Mark6 and Mark8 didnt get or get right, and charge about a 1-2k less in price. So if I was one of the guys who bought a Mark6 or Mark8 Id actually be quite upset. I dont see Schmidt and Bender doing that to their customers, they are yet to release a better scope than the PMii and charge less for getting more because they dont want to hurt the repution theyve gained with the PMii, or undermind theyre top product at all. Thats a more stand-by product in my eyes. Thats my opinion, we all have our own, blah blah blah. .

Um, yeah you did. Do you even know what contradict yourself means? Oh my bad, youve had 2 dozen/24 Schmidt PMii's? Guess your the SB expert then, Ive only used 2 and that was in the sandbox, but what do I know...

-Reagan
Click to expand...

So if someone's opinion varies from yours you contradict yourself... Are you completely retarded?

The MK6's had problems, lots of them. Canted reticles, tracking issues, and less than stellar glass. Yes they sucked. The MK8's turrets sucked until they put the new ones on and they were priced ridiculously. The MK8's with the new style turrets are phenomenal optics too, but not worth the price Leupold wants for them.

I'm no Leupold fanboy, I was 100% anti Leupold for years until the MK5's came about because they had their head in the sand just like you do. They pulled it out and got their shit together and executed and a great optic at a competitive price just like they were always capable of.

By your standards it seems an optic can't possibly be better unless it costs more with would mean that Hensoldt that's like $7K is the best scope in the world.
 
#49
Widowmaker0001 said:
Also I have to add, imho, I feel Leupold sold there soul per say, they had the Mark6 out, people complained about certain issues, they release their Mark 8 and charge Alot for those models but you barely hear anyone using them, then they come out with the Mark5 and say its the scope with all the improvements the other "more expensive" Mark6 and Mark8 didnt get or get right, and charge about a 1-2k less in price. So if I was one of the guys who bought a Mark6 or Mark8 Id actually be quite upset. I dont see Schmidt and Bender doing that to their customers, they are yet to release a better scope than the PMii and charge less for getting more because they dont want to hurt the repution theyve gained with the PMii, or undermind theyre top product at all. Thats a more stand-by product in my eyes.
-Reagan
Click to expand...
Almost all companies are guilty of that.

Do you not remember when S&B were selling for almost $4k then slashing prices. Plenty of pissed off people.
Or when Minox put out 50% certs and it dumped the price of a ZP5. Plenty of pissed off people.
Or Nightforce releasing the ATACR undercutting the BEAST.
 
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