I have an AIAW in 308 24" bbl showing up this week and need a scope for it. Some have stated that the S&B 5-25x56 s too much scope for this gun (not field friendly) and suggest the 3-12x50. My expectation is that I would shoot to about 1000 yards max. I would appreciate any opinions on this. I would like to take advantage of the S&B 5-25x56 GB if possible.
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Rifle Scopes AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
- Thread starter Mendocino
- Start date
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
Mine is coming with a S&B 4x16x50 P4F
For me, here in FL, the 4-16 is about all I can really use with mirage. IMO, once the mirage pops up, the 25X is useless and you would have to turn it down to 15-16x .... TMK, the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well.
Mine is coming with a S&B 4x16x50 P4F
For me, here in FL, the 4-16 is about all I can really use with mirage. IMO, once the mirage pops up, the 25X is useless and you would have to turn it down to 15-16x .... TMK, the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I got a 5-25x56 and love it on my AW. I think its a perfect compliment. What are your intended uses for it ?
I got a 5-25x56 and love it on my AW. I think its a perfect compliment. What are your intended uses for it ?
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I'm running a 4-16 until my 5-25 gets here. I don't think it's too much scope, the extra magnification is nice and I hardly ever go below 10X anyway so I always feel like the low end is wasted. If weight is a concern that is the only draw back to the 5-25 IMO
I'm running a 4-16 until my 5-25 gets here. I don't think it's too much scope, the extra magnification is nice and I hardly ever go below 10X anyway so I always feel like the low end is wasted. If weight is a concern that is the only draw back to the 5-25 IMO
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I've had the 3-12x50 PMII on my AW .308 for the last 5 years. It is a great scope - very clear, very well made and very reliable - I have no issues with it at all and have used it out to 900yds.
But the S&B range has moved on a lot since I bought it.
I'm seriously considering upgrading to the 4-16x50 just to get a little more resolution at longer distances - can't see any good reason why the 5-25 would be "too much" if you just want to see more detail/get more up close and personal?
I've had the 3-12x50 PMII on my AW .308 for the last 5 years. It is a great scope - very clear, very well made and very reliable - I have no issues with it at all and have used it out to 900yds.
But the S&B range has moved on a lot since I bought it.
I'm seriously considering upgrading to the 4-16x50 just to get a little more resolution at longer distances - can't see any good reason why the 5-25 would be "too much" if you just want to see more detail/get more up close and personal?
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
Once the new S&B models are released, the old ones will drop (at least in the used market). Buy based on needs rather than price. But, if you can snag a 5-25 for the same price as a 3-12 then you might as well get the 5-25. It can always be dialed down.
I can't see shooting tactical matches at 25x though. That would be be like trying to work a crossword puzzle while looking through a drinking straw.
Once the new S&B models are released, the old ones will drop (at least in the used market). Buy based on needs rather than price. But, if you can snag a 5-25 for the same price as a 3-12 then you might as well get the 5-25. It can always be dialed down.
I can't see shooting tactical matches at 25x though. That would be be like trying to work a crossword puzzle while looking through a drinking straw.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I've shot matches with a 25X. It's not as bad as you would think. I even shot some movers at 25X, If you have good position it's fine.
I've shot matches with a 25X. It's not as bad as you would think. I even shot some movers at 25X, If you have good position it's fine.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
You can always dial down a 5-25x to 12x but you can't dial up a 3-12x to 25x
Get the 5-25x. I love that scope on any rifle. I mostly use it on 10-15x at matches but it's nice to have more power when I need it.
You can always dial down a 5-25x to 12x but you can't dial up a 3-12x to 25x
Get the 5-25x. I love that scope on any rifle. I mostly use it on 10-15x at matches but it's nice to have more power when I need it.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can always dial down a 5-25x to 12x but you can't dial up a 3-12x to 25x
</div></div>
Sure you can. Just get closer to the target or wait for your target to get closer to you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can always dial down a 5-25x to 12x but you can't dial up a 3-12x to 25x
Sure you can. Just get closer to the target or wait for your target to get closer to you.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
We have both 5-25 & 3-12 on AW and TRG 308/338 rifles. I have a good deal of time behind both.
For 308 3-12x is plenty. IMHO the 5-25x on top of an AW 308 puts the rifle on the heavy side.
For running and gunning/comps take a serious look at the 3-12 because your rig will be better balanced.
We have both 5-25 & 3-12 on AW and TRG 308/338 rifles. I have a good deal of time behind both.
For 308 3-12x is plenty. IMHO the 5-25x on top of an AW 308 puts the rifle on the heavy side.
For running and gunning/comps take a serious look at the 3-12 because your rig will be better balanced.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
Having a light rifle is nice but when you can't see targets because you only have 12x it doesn't help any as you still lose points at matches. I have never had a problem running around a match with my 28" MTU profiled barreled rifle with a 5-25x S&B on the top.
I have had the 3-12x myself also and found it's power range lacking for match shooting at sniper comps with their smaller targets but by all means I hope my competitors use them
Having a light rifle is nice but when you can't see targets because you only have 12x it doesn't help any as you still lose points at matches. I have never had a problem running around a match with my 28" MTU profiled barreled rifle with a 5-25x S&B on the top.
I have had the 3-12x myself also and found it's power range lacking for match shooting at sniper comps with their smaller targets but by all means I hope my competitors use them
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having a light rifle is nice but when you can't see targets because you only have 12x it doesn't help any as you still lose points at matches. I have never had a problem running around a match with my 28" MTU profiled barreled rifle with a 5-25x S&B on the top.
I have had the 3-12x myself also and found it's power range lacking for match shooting at sniper comps with their smaller targets but by all means I hope my competitors use them
</div></div>
I agree on all points here. The only time I like a light rifle is shooting off hand, other than that I'll take the performance of a longer barrel and more magnification. One can't have their cake and eat it too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having a light rifle is nice but when you can't see targets because you only have 12x it doesn't help any as you still lose points at matches. I have never had a problem running around a match with my 28" MTU profiled barreled rifle with a 5-25x S&B on the top.
I have had the 3-12x myself also and found it's power range lacking for match shooting at sniper comps with their smaller targets but by all means I hope my competitors use them
I agree on all points here. The only time I like a light rifle is shooting off hand, other than that I'll take the performance of a longer barrel and more magnification. One can't have their cake and eat it too.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
couple of references to NEW S&B scopes, anyone got any details of these ?
couple of references to NEW S&B scopes, anyone got any details of these ?
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I use a 5-25 premier on a ai ae in the type of shooting you are going to use this setup for and love it. Rob nailed it when he said you can never dial a lower power upto what this can do.
For a stage where I'm panning, quickly acquiring a target, or just don't have time to settle on a single target for the stage I dial back to 10-17x or so. If I have the ability to be in position and on target prior to having to taking the shot then I'm usually at 25x. Having 25x as an option has helped in matches where a small/concealed targets was near impossible for some shooters to see was pretty visible.
One suggestion, get a USO sunshade/ard. The 56mm front obj will collect alot of light and you will find yourself needing it to reduce wash out and glare. One match mind got bad enough I could see a white cresant of glare looking through the optic that consumed the bottom half of the objective.
The downside to this is weight. For "field shooting" I tend to do it doesn't matter my rifle weighs around 18lbs. And I'm assuming your AI probably weighs about the same.. But for some types of positional it would be nice to have a lighter rifle IMO. This may bother you less then it does me, but my gripe is never with the magnification range on my optic.
I use a 5-25 premier on a ai ae in the type of shooting you are going to use this setup for and love it. Rob nailed it when he said you can never dial a lower power upto what this can do.
For a stage where I'm panning, quickly acquiring a target, or just don't have time to settle on a single target for the stage I dial back to 10-17x or so. If I have the ability to be in position and on target prior to having to taking the shot then I'm usually at 25x. Having 25x as an option has helped in matches where a small/concealed targets was near impossible for some shooters to see was pretty visible.
One suggestion, get a USO sunshade/ard. The 56mm front obj will collect alot of light and you will find yourself needing it to reduce wash out and glare. One match mind got bad enough I could see a white cresant of glare looking through the optic that consumed the bottom half of the objective.
The downside to this is weight. For "field shooting" I tend to do it doesn't matter my rifle weighs around 18lbs. And I'm assuming your AI probably weighs about the same.. But for some types of positional it would be nice to have a lighter rifle IMO. This may bother you less then it does me, but my gripe is never with the magnification range on my optic.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I love my PR 5-25 on my AW. I have a 5-25 S&B before that, and a 4-16 before that. I dont shoot tactical matches, but I like my 25x for the bench matches i do shoot in.
I would rather have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it..
Then again, I dont have a single spotting scope in my ownership either.
I love my PR 5-25 on my AW. I have a 5-25 S&B before that, and a 4-16 before that. I dont shoot tactical matches, but I like my 25x for the bench matches i do shoot in.
I would rather have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it..
Then again, I dont have a single spotting scope in my ownership either.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER. </div></div>
In your original post you referred to dialing a 25x down to 15-16x and then made the above statement. I thought it should be pointed out that at 16x, the 5-25 has the larger ep.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER. </div></div>
In your original post you referred to dialing a 25x down to 15-16x and then made the above statement. I thought it should be pointed out that at 16x, the 5-25 has the larger ep.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
I would get the 5-25....I run mine on my Surgeon .308 mostly on 15X. The field of view is insane with that scope compared to my 4-16 PMII. You arent going to do much shooting on the second turn with it but if you choose it you wont be sorry. I've also got a 3-12 PMII on my GAP .308 that I use for big game hunting...its a lot more compact and a little lighter.
I would get the 5-25....I run mine on my Surgeon .308 mostly on 15X. The field of view is insane with that scope compared to my 4-16 PMII. You arent going to do much shooting on the second turn with it but if you choose it you wont be sorry. I've also got a 3-12 PMII on my GAP .308 that I use for big game hunting...its a lot more compact and a little lighter.
Re: AIAW308: S&B 3-12X50 or 5-25x56?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER. </div></div>
In your original post you referred to dialing a 25x down to 15-16x and then made the above statement. I thought it should be pointed out that at 16x, the 5-25 has the larger ep. </div></div>Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I was simply making two different points: (1) mirage and (2) exit pupil at full power (which the OP desired - more power ...)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doc1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the 4-16 will have a larger exit pupil and pass more light as well. </div></div>
Wouldn't the 5-25 actually have a larger exit pupil at equivalent magnification due to the larger objective lens on the 5-25? At 16x
ep = 50/16 = 3.125 for the 4-16 x 50
ep = 56/16 = 3.5 for the 5-25 x 56 </div></div>
4x16x50 - 12.5mm - 3.125mm
5x25x56 - 10.95mm - 2.28mm
You have to divide 56/25 - not 16. We are NOT speaking of equivalent magnification, but using the increased power of the 25x as compared to the 16x in which case the 25 passes less light ... In other words, the 4x16 at FULL POWER as compared to the 5x25 at FULL POWER. </div></div>
In your original post you referred to dialing a 25x down to 15-16x and then made the above statement. I thought it should be pointed out that at 16x, the 5-25 has the larger ep. </div></div>Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I was simply making two different points: (1) mirage and (2) exit pupil at full power (which the OP desired - more power ...)
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