I am starting to build a new rifle and have been thinking of trying a accuracy international stock on a rem. short action. I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. Looking for advise, pros or cons between the two, or should I go with another mcmillan?
aics or mcmillan
- Thread starter T-Hoe
- Start date
Re: aics or mcmillan
blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself
blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself
Re: aics or mcmillan
The people that love them, love them. The people that hate them, hate them. There isn't a lot of middle ground on these stocks. Ultimately, how it feels/fits you is all that matters at the end of the day. I would suggest that you find a member somewhere in your area (or within a reasonable drive) who's willing to let you fondle their AICS-equipped rifle.
The people that love them, love them. The people that hate them, hate them. There isn't a lot of middle ground on these stocks. Ultimately, how it feels/fits you is all that matters at the end of the day. I would suggest that you find a member somewhere in your area (or within a reasonable drive) who's willing to let you fondle their AICS-equipped rifle.
Re: aics or mcmillan
I've heard that the AICS can be uncomfortable if you have large hands, but that's pretty relative, so as has been said, try to find one and handle it in person.
On the other hand, they hold their value pretty well so you could just buy one and re-sell at a very slight loss it if it's not comfortable for you.
-matt
I've heard that the AICS can be uncomfortable if you have large hands, but that's pretty relative, so as has been said, try to find one and handle it in person.
On the other hand, they hold their value pretty well so you could just buy one and re-sell at a very slight loss it if it's not comfortable for you.
-matt
Re: aics or mcmillan
Other than looks and feel, what about the accuracy as compared to a bedded mcmillan?
Other than looks and feel, what about the accuracy as compared to a bedded mcmillan?
Re: aics or mcmillan
They are both great stocks and I have them both. I like the AICS since you are able to change out the action without rebedding it.
They are both great stocks and I have them both. I like the AICS since you are able to change out the action without rebedding it.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am starting to build a new rifle and have been thinking of trying a accuracy international stock on a rem. short action. I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. Looking for advise, pros or cons between the two, or should I go with another mcmillan? </div></div>
T-Hoe,
I owned a McMillan, sold it and bought an AICS 2.0, and then sold the AICS and bought another McMillan.
For my very subjective opinion on AICS stocks:
Pro's:
The AICS 2.0 is very modular. It has a number of sling points. It's easy to attach rails to. An Atlas Bipod with spigot mount feels like it was just made for an AICS. It is an outstanding stock to shoot prone. Or off a the top of a wall, fence, roof peak.
It's easy to add or remove spacers for a proper LOP. It's easy to raise the comb to get more height. The 2.0 when folded is very compact. It does not need bedding. When I removed the BA from the stock and put it back in and torqued it down properly it would return everything to near zero (+- 1/4"). Loved the built in BM making magazine use a breeze.
You can buy one tomorrow so no waiting....
Cons:
The SOB is heavy. Anywhere from two the three lbs heavier than a McMillan. It is uncomfortable to hold in your two hands for any length of time, as the fore-end is square. So if you have to shoot offhand or slung up, it is a pain.
The comb can be too high, even in it's lowest position. I had an IOR 35mm scope mounted in Low 35mm rings. I had more than 1/4" of barrel to objective clearance with that combo. I had to go to medium hight rings so I could comfortably get behind the scope, as the comb would not go lower.
The thumbhole stock was comfortable when shooting, but slow on repeat shots. My "best" hand position on the stock was such that my knuckle of my trigger finger hit my Badger Bolt knob. I had to adopt a less optimum hand position to avoid that problem.
For my very subjective opinion on McMillan Stocks:
Pro's:
Made in an vast variety if styles and shapes (except thumbhole). They can be made light. From around 2.6 lbs for an HTG w/sniper fill, up to 4.5 lbs for an A-4 with sniper fill. They can be comfortable to shoot in all positions. They are easy on your hands when you have to hold them. Except for the A-4 the fore-ends are not square.
Con's:
The really need both pillars and proper glass bedding. The need to be properly inletted for DBM systems. They do not come with a DBM system. All this adds to the final cost.
They are not modular. You need to think through what you want to add on and where, before your order, like sling swivel positions. You need a rail of some sort to add an Atlas Bipod.
On models with adjustable combs, this adds nearly a lb of weight, as well as cost.
You usually have to wait months to get one. Or go to JW Precision and buy an off the shelf model.
YMMV and IMHO,
Bob
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am starting to build a new rifle and have been thinking of trying a accuracy international stock on a rem. short action. I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. Looking for advise, pros or cons between the two, or should I go with another mcmillan? </div></div>
T-Hoe,
I owned a McMillan, sold it and bought an AICS 2.0, and then sold the AICS and bought another McMillan.
For my very subjective opinion on AICS stocks:
Pro's:
The AICS 2.0 is very modular. It has a number of sling points. It's easy to attach rails to. An Atlas Bipod with spigot mount feels like it was just made for an AICS. It is an outstanding stock to shoot prone. Or off a the top of a wall, fence, roof peak.
It's easy to add or remove spacers for a proper LOP. It's easy to raise the comb to get more height. The 2.0 when folded is very compact. It does not need bedding. When I removed the BA from the stock and put it back in and torqued it down properly it would return everything to near zero (+- 1/4"). Loved the built in BM making magazine use a breeze.
You can buy one tomorrow so no waiting....
Cons:
The SOB is heavy. Anywhere from two the three lbs heavier than a McMillan. It is uncomfortable to hold in your two hands for any length of time, as the fore-end is square. So if you have to shoot offhand or slung up, it is a pain.
The comb can be too high, even in it's lowest position. I had an IOR 35mm scope mounted in Low 35mm rings. I had more than 1/4" of barrel to objective clearance with that combo. I had to go to medium hight rings so I could comfortably get behind the scope, as the comb would not go lower.
The thumbhole stock was comfortable when shooting, but slow on repeat shots. My "best" hand position on the stock was such that my knuckle of my trigger finger hit my Badger Bolt knob. I had to adopt a less optimum hand position to avoid that problem.
For my very subjective opinion on McMillan Stocks:
Pro's:
Made in an vast variety if styles and shapes (except thumbhole). They can be made light. From around 2.6 lbs for an HTG w/sniper fill, up to 4.5 lbs for an A-4 with sniper fill. They can be comfortable to shoot in all positions. They are easy on your hands when you have to hold them. Except for the A-4 the fore-ends are not square.
Con's:
The really need both pillars and proper glass bedding. The need to be properly inletted for DBM systems. They do not come with a DBM system. All this adds to the final cost.
They are not modular. You need to think through what you want to add on and where, before your order, like sling swivel positions. You need a rail of some sort to add an Atlas Bipod.
On models with adjustable combs, this adds nearly a lb of weight, as well as cost.
You usually have to wait months to get one. Or go to JW Precision and buy an off the shelf model.
YMMV and IMHO,
Bob
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am starting to build a new rifle and have been thinking of trying a accuracy international stock on a rem. short action. I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. Looking for advise, pros or cons between the two, or should I go with another mcmillan? </div></div>
T-Hoe,
I owned a McMillan, sold it and bought an AICS 2.0, and then sold the AICS and bought another McMillan.
For my very subjective opinion on AICS stocks:
Pro's:
The AICS 2.0 is very modular. It has a number of sling points. It's easy to attach rails to. An Atlas Bipod with spigot mount feels like it was just made for an AICS. It is an outstanding stock to shoot prone. Or off a the top of a wall, fence, roof peak.
It's easy to add or remove spacers for a proper LOP. It's easy to raise the comb to get more height. The 2.0 when folded is very compact. It does not need bedding. When I removed the BA from the stock and put it back in and torqued it down properly it would return everything to near zero (+- 1/4"). Loved the built in BM making magazine use a breeze.
You can buy one tomorrow so no waiting....
Cons:
The SOB is heavy. Anywhere from two the three lbs heavier than a McMillan. It is uncomfortable to hold in your two hands for any length of time, as the fore-end is square. So if you have to shoot offhand or slung up, it is a pain.
The comb can be too high, even in it's lowest position. I had an IOR 35mm scope mounted in Low 35mm rings. I had more than 1/4" of barrel to objective clearance with that combo. I had to go to medium hight rings so I could comfortably get behind the scope, as the comb would not go lower.
The thumbhole stock was comfortable when shooting, but slow on repeat shots. My "best" hand position on the stock was such that my knuckle of my trigger finger hit my Badger Bolt knob. I had to adopt a less optimum hand position to avoid that problem.
For my very subjective opinion on McMillan Stocks:
Pro's:
Made in an vast variety if styles and shapes (except thumbhole). They can be made light. From around 2.6 lbs for an HTG w/sniper fill, up to 4.5 lbs for an A-4 with sniper fill. They can be comfortable to shoot in all positions. They are easy on your hands when you have to hold them. Except for the A-4 the fore-ends are not square.
Con's:
The really need both pillars and proper glass bedding. The need to be properly inletted for DBM systems. They do not come with a DBM system. All this adds to the final cost.
They are not modular. You need to think through what you want to add on and where, before your order, like sling swivel positions. You need a rail of some sort to add an Atlas Bipod.
On models with adjustable combs, this adds nearly a lb of weight, as well as cost.
You usually have to wait months to get one. Or go to JW Precision and buy an off the shelf model.
YMMV and IMHO,
Bob
</div></div>
thanks for that breakdown extremely useful to me as im considering an ai stock as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am starting to build a new rifle and have been thinking of trying a accuracy international stock on a rem. short action. I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. Looking for advise, pros or cons between the two, or should I go with another mcmillan? </div></div>
T-Hoe,
I owned a McMillan, sold it and bought an AICS 2.0, and then sold the AICS and bought another McMillan.
For my very subjective opinion on AICS stocks:
Pro's:
The AICS 2.0 is very modular. It has a number of sling points. It's easy to attach rails to. An Atlas Bipod with spigot mount feels like it was just made for an AICS. It is an outstanding stock to shoot prone. Or off a the top of a wall, fence, roof peak.
It's easy to add or remove spacers for a proper LOP. It's easy to raise the comb to get more height. The 2.0 when folded is very compact. It does not need bedding. When I removed the BA from the stock and put it back in and torqued it down properly it would return everything to near zero (+- 1/4"). Loved the built in BM making magazine use a breeze.
You can buy one tomorrow so no waiting....
Cons:
The SOB is heavy. Anywhere from two the three lbs heavier than a McMillan. It is uncomfortable to hold in your two hands for any length of time, as the fore-end is square. So if you have to shoot offhand or slung up, it is a pain.
The comb can be too high, even in it's lowest position. I had an IOR 35mm scope mounted in Low 35mm rings. I had more than 1/4" of barrel to objective clearance with that combo. I had to go to medium hight rings so I could comfortably get behind the scope, as the comb would not go lower.
The thumbhole stock was comfortable when shooting, but slow on repeat shots. My "best" hand position on the stock was such that my knuckle of my trigger finger hit my Badger Bolt knob. I had to adopt a less optimum hand position to avoid that problem.
For my very subjective opinion on McMillan Stocks:
Pro's:
Made in an vast variety if styles and shapes (except thumbhole). They can be made light. From around 2.6 lbs for an HTG w/sniper fill, up to 4.5 lbs for an A-4 with sniper fill. They can be comfortable to shoot in all positions. They are easy on your hands when you have to hold them. Except for the A-4 the fore-ends are not square.
Con's:
The really need both pillars and proper glass bedding. The need to be properly inletted for DBM systems. They do not come with a DBM system. All this adds to the final cost.
They are not modular. You need to think through what you want to add on and where, before your order, like sling swivel positions. You need a rail of some sort to add an Atlas Bipod.
On models with adjustable combs, this adds nearly a lb of weight, as well as cost.
You usually have to wait months to get one. Or go to JW Precision and buy an off the shelf model.
YMMV and IMHO,
Bob
</div></div>
thanks for that breakdown extremely useful to me as im considering an ai stock as well.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. </div></div>
Most do not love both....unless you can get behind an AICS for a little bit of time (try different positions, etc-pay attention to your trigger hand) stick with what you know you like.
Now, you may want to try an A3-5 or an A3.
I do less and less easy prone shooting the more I shoot, and have switched my stocks to A3's. For me they are handier than A5's (I've had A5's A3's AICS 1.0/1.5, Manners T4A-which I shoulda never let go of, and would<span style="font-size: 14pt"> <span style="font-style: italic">love </span></span>to get into a Manners T2A)
The best way I found to run an AICS was a 1.5 with the cheek piece removed and a stock pack on it....but then I hate the hand position (not the thumbhole, just how close the web of the thumb is to the trigger).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already have a mcmillan a-5 and really like it. </div></div>
Most do not love both....unless you can get behind an AICS for a little bit of time (try different positions, etc-pay attention to your trigger hand) stick with what you know you like.
Now, you may want to try an A3-5 or an A3.
I do less and less easy prone shooting the more I shoot, and have switched my stocks to A3's. For me they are handier than A5's (I've had A5's A3's AICS 1.0/1.5, Manners T4A-which I shoulda never let go of, and would<span style="font-size: 14pt"> <span style="font-style: italic">love </span></span>to get into a Manners T2A)
The best way I found to run an AICS was a 1.5 with the cheek piece removed and a stock pack on it....but then I hate the hand position (not the thumbhole, just how close the web of the thumb is to the trigger).
Re: aics or mcmillan
Bob makes a bunch of great points here. That said, take a look at the KMW Sentinel Stock that Terry Cross designed. It is mfg by McMillian and is the best of all worlds, IMHO. I personally shoot an A-5 and love them. My buddy purchased one of Terry's stocks and I pillar bedded his 5R in it. It is very comfortable in all shooting positions, has the Logger Head adj. Cheekpiece (which, IMO, is far better than any of the McM adj. options), has many swivel attachment points, comes with the DBM, and also comes with a Pic Rail for the Atlas. See if you can test drive one...
Bob makes a bunch of great points here. That said, take a look at the KMW Sentinel Stock that Terry Cross designed. It is mfg by McMillian and is the best of all worlds, IMHO. I personally shoot an A-5 and love them. My buddy purchased one of Terry's stocks and I pillar bedded his 5R in it. It is very comfortable in all shooting positions, has the Logger Head adj. Cheekpiece (which, IMO, is far better than any of the McM adj. options), has many swivel attachment points, comes with the DBM, and also comes with a Pic Rail for the Atlas. See if you can test drive one...
Re: aics or mcmillan
That is some good information you guys have given me. One of the reasons I was thinking about the acis is the fact it has a detachable mag,adding one to the other is a big price difference.I shot in my first sniper competition three weeks ago with my rifle that does not have a dm system. I learned very quickly one was needed. I do not know what it is about long range shooting that makes it so addicting, so I find myself building a new rifle.
That is some good information you guys have given me. One of the reasons I was thinking about the acis is the fact it has a detachable mag,adding one to the other is a big price difference.I shot in my first sniper competition three weeks ago with my rifle that does not have a dm system. I learned very quickly one was needed. I do not know what it is about long range shooting that makes it so addicting, so I find myself building a new rifle.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I do not know what it is about long range shooting that makes it so addicting, so I find myself building a new rifle. </div></div>
It's all downhill on the wallet from here bro......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I do not know what it is about long range shooting that makes it so addicting, so I find myself building a new rifle. </div></div>
It's all downhill on the wallet from here bro......
Re: aics or mcmillan
You can get the loggerhead through McM now, or at least order the stock as a 2 piece w/out hardware and install/have it installed. Same with swivel attachments, you can have as many as you lik eput wherever you like.
The Sentinel is very cool and well thought out. Not as easy to find....
You can get the loggerhead through McM now, or at least order the stock as a 2 piece w/out hardware and install/have it installed. Same with swivel attachments, you can have as many as you lik eput wherever you like.
The Sentinel is very cool and well thought out. Not as easy to find....
Re: aics or mcmillan
If you want a really cool looking chassis and don't want to bother with bedding, go AICS. If you want a more traditional look, go McMillan. Both are great shooters.
If you want a really cool looking chassis and don't want to bother with bedding, go AICS. If you want a more traditional look, go McMillan. Both are great shooters.
Re: aics or mcmillan
I was in the same boat not two months ago. AICS or MCM. Its a tough choice. I will start by saying I wasn't fond of the appearance of the AICS during the choosing process. I liked the traditional look of the MCM. Here's what brought me to the AICS...
For roughly the same price, approx 850...
You get a stock with adjustable length of pull and comb height, built in drop magazine system, and the claim that you don't need to bed the rifle.
Realize the DBM system alone makes about a 350+ dollar difference in price. You can buy an MCM for 850, but it probably isn't inletted, and even if it is, you still have to fork out another 3-500 bucks for bottom metal and a magazine. In effect this raises the price of the MCM to around 1200 dollars before tax.
Now that I have the AICS I can comment on it. For starters, I've come to like the design and appearance. It fits like a glove when you set all the adjustments. The magazines run flawlessly. You have multiple bipod attachment options. You can attach rails easily. Etc.
Having shot my rifle in the new stock I can say it shoots as well in the AICS with drop in/bolt down settings as my rifle did in a bedded HS precision that allowed it to produce a 1/4 moa group at 100yds. Having lugged it around a little I will say this, it is heavy. Noticeably heavier than other stocks. It also seems to help you manage recoil better so the weight is both a blessing and a curse. If you are shooting at a range, I wouldn't sweat the weight. If you are running around back country on tactical competitions, I would man up and carry it anyway.
No experience with the MCM stocks...but I went with an AICS and have NO regrets about doing it.
I was in the same boat not two months ago. AICS or MCM. Its a tough choice. I will start by saying I wasn't fond of the appearance of the AICS during the choosing process. I liked the traditional look of the MCM. Here's what brought me to the AICS...
For roughly the same price, approx 850...
You get a stock with adjustable length of pull and comb height, built in drop magazine system, and the claim that you don't need to bed the rifle.
Realize the DBM system alone makes about a 350+ dollar difference in price. You can buy an MCM for 850, but it probably isn't inletted, and even if it is, you still have to fork out another 3-500 bucks for bottom metal and a magazine. In effect this raises the price of the MCM to around 1200 dollars before tax.
Now that I have the AICS I can comment on it. For starters, I've come to like the design and appearance. It fits like a glove when you set all the adjustments. The magazines run flawlessly. You have multiple bipod attachment options. You can attach rails easily. Etc.
Having shot my rifle in the new stock I can say it shoots as well in the AICS with drop in/bolt down settings as my rifle did in a bedded HS precision that allowed it to produce a 1/4 moa group at 100yds. Having lugged it around a little I will say this, it is heavy. Noticeably heavier than other stocks. It also seems to help you manage recoil better so the weight is both a blessing and a curse. If you are shooting at a range, I wouldn't sweat the weight. If you are running around back country on tactical competitions, I would man up and carry it anyway.
No experience with the MCM stocks...but I went with an AICS and have NO regrets about doing it.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was in the same boat not two months ago. AICS or MCM. Its a tough choice. I will start by saying I wasn't fond of the appearance of the AICS during the choosing process. I liked the traditional look of the MCM. Here's what brought me to the AICS...
For roughly the same price, approx 850...
You get a stock with adjustable length of pull and comb height, built in drop magazine system, and the claim that you don't need to bed the rifle.
Realize the DBM system alone makes about a 350+ dollar difference in price. You can buy an MCM for 850, but it probably isn't inletted, and even if it is, you still have to fork out another 3-500 bucks for bottom metal and a magazine. In effect this raises the price of the MCM to around 1200 dollars before tax.</div></div>
I'm also looking at aics for this exact reason and they seem to have a pretty good resale value if i dont like it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was in the same boat not two months ago. AICS or MCM. Its a tough choice. I will start by saying I wasn't fond of the appearance of the AICS during the choosing process. I liked the traditional look of the MCM. Here's what brought me to the AICS...
For roughly the same price, approx 850...
You get a stock with adjustable length of pull and comb height, built in drop magazine system, and the claim that you don't need to bed the rifle.
Realize the DBM system alone makes about a 350+ dollar difference in price. You can buy an MCM for 850, but it probably isn't inletted, and even if it is, you still have to fork out another 3-500 bucks for bottom metal and a magazine. In effect this raises the price of the MCM to around 1200 dollars before tax.</div></div>
I'm also looking at aics for this exact reason and they seem to have a pretty good resale value if i dont like it.
Re: aics or mcmillan
Be forewarned- I don't know sh*t...
I am having an UGSW rifle built right now. They told me that they think that the Manners stocks are a bit stiffer than the McM, and thus prefer to use them. (So I'm getting a 308 in a Manners T4A)
Also- they bed the AICS stocks (I think). You can see on their site that the Manners stocker rifles are $500ish more expensive than the AICS rifles. BTW- I think that their prices on AICS rifles is pretty f'n good. I also have one of those on the way
Be forewarned- I don't know sh*t...
I am having an UGSW rifle built right now. They told me that they think that the Manners stocks are a bit stiffer than the McM, and thus prefer to use them. (So I'm getting a 308 in a Manners T4A)
Also- they bed the AICS stocks (I think). You can see on their site that the Manners stocker rifles are $500ish more expensive than the AICS rifles. BTW- I think that their prices on AICS rifles is pretty f'n good. I also have one of those on the way
Re: aics or mcmillan
Manners has now added a chassis system, so one no longer needs to decide between bedded McMillan and non-bedded AICS, the Manners gives McMillan-like stock design and AICS-like bedding.
I owned an AICS 1.5, sold it because my big hands don't fit well around the skinny palm swell. Now I run a Manners T5A and like it much more.
Owned several McMillans over the years, got to be good friends with my smith due to bedding the actions. They are tough stocks and very well made.
If you want a non-AICS chassis stock, Manners is the way to go.
Manners has now added a chassis system, so one no longer needs to decide between bedded McMillan and non-bedded AICS, the Manners gives McMillan-like stock design and AICS-like bedding.
I owned an AICS 1.5, sold it because my big hands don't fit well around the skinny palm swell. Now I run a Manners T5A and like it much more.
Owned several McMillans over the years, got to be good friends with my smith due to bedding the actions. They are tough stocks and very well made.
If you want a non-AICS chassis stock, Manners is the way to go.
Re: aics or mcmillan
I'll chime in.
My first purchase into precision/custom rifle is my GAP. Bought from a hide member here brand new, in AICS 1.5 I've put about 300 rounds down her, and have discovered what I do and do not like about it.
LIke:
Modular, plenty of adjustment, DBM is gtg, stable platform, easy to change colors with skins/dipping/painting. Mine was bedded as well, and shot like a champ
Not like:
I'm a fairly large guy, 6ft 240 with a rock head. The comb at lowest position just seems too low for me, and I won't compromise ring height as I like my glass close to bore. I can shoot it well, but repeating my position shot after shot was a challenge. I could never seem to get that consistent grip with the stock, and I have large hands. LOP for me is right at 14.5, but it still felt awkward at times getting the same position, same grip, shot to shot. My thumb felt out of place almost.
I didn't mind the weight, as I like a rifle to have some to it.
Needless to say, I've traded it out for an McM A5 with KMW hardware in 75/25 SF. I've played with my buddies A5 for a few and it really seems to like me, so I'm drinking the cool aid.
BTW. jwprecision.com rocks! Thanks John.
I'll chime in.
My first purchase into precision/custom rifle is my GAP. Bought from a hide member here brand new, in AICS 1.5 I've put about 300 rounds down her, and have discovered what I do and do not like about it.
LIke:
Modular, plenty of adjustment, DBM is gtg, stable platform, easy to change colors with skins/dipping/painting. Mine was bedded as well, and shot like a champ
Not like:
I'm a fairly large guy, 6ft 240 with a rock head. The comb at lowest position just seems too low for me, and I won't compromise ring height as I like my glass close to bore. I can shoot it well, but repeating my position shot after shot was a challenge. I could never seem to get that consistent grip with the stock, and I have large hands. LOP for me is right at 14.5, but it still felt awkward at times getting the same position, same grip, shot to shot. My thumb felt out of place almost.
I didn't mind the weight, as I like a rifle to have some to it.
Needless to say, I've traded it out for an McM A5 with KMW hardware in 75/25 SF. I've played with my buddies A5 for a few and it really seems to like me, so I'm drinking the cool aid.
BTW. jwprecision.com rocks! Thanks John.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get both
</div></div>
Money bags.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get both
Money bags.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself </div></div>
+1
Re: aics or mcmillan
I have a McMillan A4, I find I like the feeling of the AICS better for my strong hand as it more closely models a pistol grip on an AR15 (which is what I mostly shoot when I'm not shooting a bolt gun). The pistol grip on a McMillan A2-5 is far too big and bulky for me to comfortable get my hand around.
The answer is to fondle and shoot both if you can and then decide.
I have a McMillan A4, I find I like the feeling of the AICS better for my strong hand as it more closely models a pistol grip on an AR15 (which is what I mostly shoot when I'm not shooting a bolt gun). The pistol grip on a McMillan A2-5 is far too big and bulky for me to comfortable get my hand around.
The answer is to fondle and shoot both if you can and then decide.
Re: aics or mcmillan
Here's another one to mess you up choice wise....excellent stock, price and customer service!
Steve
http://www.mcreesprecision.net/sp_pr_t.htm
Here's another one to mess you up choice wise....excellent stock, price and customer service!
Steve
http://www.mcreesprecision.net/sp_pr_t.htm
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Am180man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's another one to mess you up choice wise....excellent stock, price and customer service!
Steve
http://www.mcreesprecision.net/sp_pr_t.htm </div></div>
i got a used mcree and love it. plus the built in mag system rocks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Am180man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's another one to mess you up choice wise....excellent stock, price and customer service!
Steve
http://www.mcreesprecision.net/sp_pr_t.htm </div></div>
i got a used mcree and love it. plus the built in mag system rocks
Re: aics or mcmillan
I just ordered an aics 1.5 kinda took a shot in the dark as i've never had an opportunity to get behind either one but I chose aics mostly on price point also no waiting and I can change out the barreled action, change barrel contours with no machine work or rebedding. It seemed to me mcmillans are very personalized and my lack of experience with all the different dbms and options I most likely would have screwed up the order somehow. I guess the aics seemed dummy proof. we'll see.
I just ordered an aics 1.5 kinda took a shot in the dark as i've never had an opportunity to get behind either one but I chose aics mostly on price point also no waiting and I can change out the barreled action, change barrel contours with no machine work or rebedding. It seemed to me mcmillans are very personalized and my lack of experience with all the different dbms and options I most likely would have screwed up the order somehow. I guess the aics seemed dummy proof. we'll see.
Re: aics or mcmillan
Thanks for all the information. I am leaning towards the aics, does anyone have any suggestions 1.5 or 2.0?
Thanks for all the information. I am leaning towards the aics, does anyone have any suggestions 1.5 or 2.0?
Re: aics or mcmillan
i sold my AIC for a Manners T2. like most have already stated, the AIC's are heavy and if you have large hands the trigger is just to close to the palm. i have very large hands and the trigger landed in the crease of the first finger joint. try em, before you buy em.
i sold my AIC for a Manners T2. like most have already stated, the AIC's are heavy and if you have large hands the trigger is just to close to the palm. i have very large hands and the trigger landed in the crease of the first finger joint. try em, before you buy em.
Re: aics or mcmillan
from my research the main reason the 2.0 folds is for cleaning on the 1.5 you have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt so i guess you have to mark the position of you cheek piece before you remove it if you want it back in the same place when you done. however a lot of post i have read say guys run their cheek piece down all the way down anyway. I have also seen spacer systems advertised on here. the 2.0 would be more compact for transporting or packing around its also 200 dollars more. I sacrficed a little luxury for a little money.
from my research the main reason the 2.0 folds is for cleaning on the 1.5 you have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt so i guess you have to mark the position of you cheek piece before you remove it if you want it back in the same place when you done. however a lot of post i have read say guys run their cheek piece down all the way down anyway. I have also seen spacer systems advertised on here. the 2.0 would be more compact for transporting or packing around its also 200 dollars more. I sacrficed a little luxury for a little money.
Re: aics or mcmillan
1.5 you have to take off decel pad and spacers to get your rod level, not hard, just swivel top away. Of course, that is if you have a long rod like me...ha, no pun intended.
1.5 you have to take off decel pad and spacers to get your rod level, not hard, just swivel top away. Of course, that is if you have a long rod like me...ha, no pun intended.
Re: aics or mcmillan
So netranger6, are you pleased with your aics, or would you try something else?
So netranger6, are you pleased with your aics, or would you try something else?
Re: aics or mcmillan
Alright I'll chime in here and give my two cents. We like our stocks like we like our women. Everyone is looking for different things in women (some like blondes, some like red heads, some like super skinny, and some like some meat on the bones). The same goes for rifle stocks.
Thus the whole debates boils down to personal preference. Take me for example. I like Manners stocks, both the T3 and T4 are my preference, while I have never been able to get comfortable behind a McMillian or AI. Now I know both McMillan and AI are solid well built stocks, but they are not for me. Thus the best thing you can do is find some other shooters in your area that have different stocks and try them. This is the only way you will figure out what stock suits you best.
Alright I'll chime in here and give my two cents. We like our stocks like we like our women. Everyone is looking for different things in women (some like blondes, some like red heads, some like super skinny, and some like some meat on the bones). The same goes for rifle stocks.
Thus the whole debates boils down to personal preference. Take me for example. I like Manners stocks, both the T3 and T4 are my preference, while I have never been able to get comfortable behind a McMillian or AI. Now I know both McMillan and AI are solid well built stocks, but they are not for me. Thus the best thing you can do is find some other shooters in your area that have different stocks and try them. This is the only way you will figure out what stock suits you best.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the information. I am leaning towards the aics, does anyone have any suggestions 1.5 or 2.0? </div></div>
Ask yourself when you will need to fold the stock so bad that the extra 8 inches of horizontal space you save will be worth the $300 dollar price tag the folding mechanism comes with.
For some space is at a premium. My 1.5 fits in my 5.11 rifle bag just fine as it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clr537</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from my research the main reason the 2.0 folds is for cleaning on the 1.5 you have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt so i guess you have to mark the position of you cheek piece before you remove it if you want it back in the same place when you done. however a lot of post i have read say guys run their cheek piece down all the way down anyway. I have also seen spacer systems advertised on here. the 2.0 would be more compact for transporting or packing around its also 200 dollars more. I sacrficed a little luxury for a little money. </div></div>
You don't have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt. You do need to remove it to push a cleaning rod down the barrel. Just measure the height with calipers and resetting it isn't a problem. Or, be economical, and spend 25 bucks on spacers from Victor Company.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.5 you have to take off decel pad and spacers to get your rod level, not hard, just swivel top away. Of course, that is if you have a long rod like me...ha, no pun intended. </div></div>
I have not had to remove the spacers or recoil pad to clean mine. Though my 20" rod probably doesn't compare to yours...
I use a Dewey nylon coated cleaning rod, flexes a miniscule amount going in but works fine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the information. I am leaning towards the aics, does anyone have any suggestions 1.5 or 2.0? </div></div>
Ask yourself when you will need to fold the stock so bad that the extra 8 inches of horizontal space you save will be worth the $300 dollar price tag the folding mechanism comes with.
For some space is at a premium. My 1.5 fits in my 5.11 rifle bag just fine as it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clr537</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from my research the main reason the 2.0 folds is for cleaning on the 1.5 you have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt so i guess you have to mark the position of you cheek piece before you remove it if you want it back in the same place when you done. however a lot of post i have read say guys run their cheek piece down all the way down anyway. I have also seen spacer systems advertised on here. the 2.0 would be more compact for transporting or packing around its also 200 dollars more. I sacrficed a little luxury for a little money. </div></div>
You don't have to remove the cheek piece to remove the bolt. You do need to remove it to push a cleaning rod down the barrel. Just measure the height with calipers and resetting it isn't a problem. Or, be economical, and spend 25 bucks on spacers from Victor Company.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.5 you have to take off decel pad and spacers to get your rod level, not hard, just swivel top away. Of course, that is if you have a long rod like me...ha, no pun intended. </div></div>
I have not had to remove the spacers or recoil pad to clean mine. Though my 20" rod probably doesn't compare to yours...
I use a Dewey nylon coated cleaning rod, flexes a miniscule amount going in but works fine.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...760#Post2187760 </div></div>
what did you decide on pickpick?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...760#Post2187760 </div></div>
what did you decide on pickpick?
Re: aics or mcmillan
I agree that you need to get behind what you are considering to see if it's for you. I like the looks of the AICS too but I just can't get low enough to see through my scope without having to have really high rings that brings the scope higher which I don't like.
I agree that you need to get behind what you are considering to see if it's for you. I like the looks of the AICS too but I just can't get low enough to see through my scope without having to have really high rings that brings the scope higher which I don't like.
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself </div></div>
Crown Royal, Duh!
41
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">blond or brunette?
coke or pepsi?
Jack Daniels or Crown Royal?
its a personal question. best to try both and decide for yourself </div></div>
Crown Royal, Duh!
41
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clr537</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...760#Post2187760 </div></div>
what did you decide on pickpick? </div></div>
I have handled both but, not shot either. I think I'll probably go AICS though. Mostly because of availability and not having to send it off for bedding. If I'm wrong about the choice, I don't have to try and sell a stock that has been bedded.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clr537</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...760#Post2187760 </div></div>
what did you decide on pickpick? </div></div>
I have handled both but, not shot either. I think I'll probably go AICS though. Mostly because of availability and not having to send it off for bedding. If I'm wrong about the choice, I don't have to try and sell a stock that has been bedded.
Re: aics or mcmillan
I havent gotten behind a AICS to put any rounds down range, but have handled them with and without an action and didnt care for them. I dont have big hands with brot fingers and still the grip seems cramped to me.
I do however have a couple of different Manners (T1 and T4) and a MCM A4 and love them.
Like alot of others have said put your hands on whatever your choices are and decide that way.
I havent gotten behind a AICS to put any rounds down range, but have handled them with and without an action and didnt care for them. I dont have big hands with brot fingers and still the grip seems cramped to me.
I do however have a couple of different Manners (T1 and T4) and a MCM A4 and love them.
Like alot of others have said put your hands on whatever your choices are and decide that way.
Re: aics or mcmillan
I've shot the AI 2.0 and the McMillan a-5. Very different but liked them both. The McMillan felt more natural to me. I could also get use to the AI afetr some time....Obviously the correct answer has been said multiple times in the thread, try them both if possible...I would also recommend Manners Stocks. from what I've seen, they are rock solid.
Good Luck..
I've shot the AI 2.0 and the McMillan a-5. Very different but liked them both. The McMillan felt more natural to me. I could also get use to the AI afetr some time....Obviously the correct answer has been said multiple times in the thread, try them both if possible...I would also recommend Manners Stocks. from what I've seen, they are rock solid.
Good Luck..
Re: aics or mcmillan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So netranger6, are you pleased with your aics, or would you try something else? </div></div>
I had a GAP in AICS, and put a few hundred rounds on it. Traded it for McM A5, then completely flipped my GAP...only to pick up this GAP on Friday!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...037#Post2308037
So, it's McM A5 for this guy for a while. Nothing wrong with the AICS, it just didn't feel right for me when I'm not on a hard surface, in the prone. Plus, I'm in the rifle I've always wanted, a Surgeon 591 sweetened by George himself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-Hoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So netranger6, are you pleased with your aics, or would you try something else? </div></div>
I had a GAP in AICS, and put a few hundred rounds on it. Traded it for McM A5, then completely flipped my GAP...only to pick up this GAP on Friday!
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...037#Post2308037
So, it's McM A5 for this guy for a while. Nothing wrong with the AICS, it just didn't feel right for me when I'm not on a hard surface, in the prone. Plus, I'm in the rifle I've always wanted, a Surgeon 591 sweetened by George himself.
Re: aics or mcmillan
Im with Longshot...I owen both stocks..and I like both stocks.
My AICS 2.0, folded will fit in my Pelican M4 case.
Find one you can hold or shoot, then make your choice.
Im with Longshot...I owen both stocks..and I like both stocks.
My AICS 2.0, folded will fit in my Pelican M4 case.
Find one you can hold or shoot, then make your choice.
