AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

[thefitter]

For those of you with a AI or AICS, which do you prefer a rear bag or mono pod?

 

[vman]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Monopod... Its with the rifle where ever I take it, light and robust.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I'm a rear bag guy.

 

[htorano]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

You could use both. But, if its one or the other, go with the rearbag. Its much easier to make quick adjustments on the rearbag. I feel that the monopod is more for stakeouts qhere you will be looking at the same spot for a prolonged amount of time.Maybe someone who's in law enforcement can chime in. I got the accu shot thinking Id use it a lot, but, never use it. It just takes too much time to adjust to the correct height

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I have not used a monopod before, but I can tell you that 99% of LE situations are not going to allow you to use a rear bag. I use my tripod more than anything.

I do use my rear bag at matches and when "target" shooting quite a bit. If I have to engage movers or snap targets I just support the rear of the stock with my fist.

 

[jrob300]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

For the kind of shooting I do... rear bag.

I would have to readjust the monopod for every shot, because it would dig into the ground with every recoil. Rear bag (or fist) is much faster.

John

 

[johndoe]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Rear bag unless it's the factory Ai piece. The aftermarket piece
was a little loose as the factory one was rock solid. I use the factory
rear spigot in conjuction with a rear bag for gross elevation changes.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johndoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rear bag unless it's the factory Ai piece. The aftermarket piece
was a little loose as the factory one was rock solid. I use the factory
rear spigot in conjuction with a rear bag for gross elevation changes. </div></div>
I must jump in.

Accu-Shot aftermarket monopod is extremely solid, and very easily/smoothly adjusted. In fact I wish it was available for my DTA SRS - which is also good - but Accu-Shot just feels better.

The only negative thing about it - it took an email to Kasey to figure how to attach it correctly (yes I know. I was dense that evening). Once I attached it properly - it feels welded to the stock. Can't imagine a better monopod, but you must attach it correctly (trivial once the explanation was given), or indeed it would not hold steady.

I'm <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> happy with Accu-Shot. Those of you who use BT-08 monopod or Atlas bipod would understand me.

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I still think I just plain need to try one of these out!

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I think it ultimately depends on where you plan to be shooting most from, and what your personal preference is.

I like a bag, but at the same time the Accu-Shot works well for me, and used in conjunction together is even better. Personally I'm a bigger fan of the Accu-Shot over the original AI buttspike, but the new version on the AX is better than either one, IMO.

 

[Mosdet]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I have to agree. The rear bag to me gives me much more control. However, depending on your scope height/cheek piece height you may need more then one bag to reach the comfortable height for you. Keep that in mind when you pick your bag if you go this route. Often I use two bags to get the right height and comfort I like.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I keep three different sized rear bags in my pack. I can mix & match them in any combination to accommodate the terrain. I tried a monopod but found that it was a little too limiting for duty use. If necessary I can make large elevation adjustments (from a first story to a second story window for example) much quicker with bags than with a monopod. For range use the monopod is great.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

For me a rear bag is nice but a built-in monopod is far more portable (one thing less to carry/worry about) and practical.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the new version on the AX is better than either one, IMO.</div></div>
Can't comment - haven't seen it. But (a) is it continuously adjustable, and (b) does it work with AICS?

 

[thefitter]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Would it be safe to say that a rear bag is faster to "dial in"?

Exactly how are the adjustments made on the Atlas mono pod?

The individuals statement about a mono pod digging in after a shot made a
lot of sense.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

The fist is fastest and what I resort to anytime speed is required. A bag is slightly slower.

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used a monopod before, but I can tell you that 99% of LE situations are not going to allow you to use a rear bag. I use my tripod more than anything.

I do use my rear bag at matches and when "target" shooting quite a bit. If I have to engage movers or snap targets I just support the rear of the stock with my fist.</div></div>

Just curious as to why they would not let LE use a bag of any sort?

I am also a bag guy. I have used mono-pods before and I have found them to be pretty shaky. Yes your elevation is perfect but what really matters is your windage, and I have found that it would move left or right easily with minimal influence.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used a monopod before, but I can tell you that 99% of LE situations are not going to allow you to use a rear bag. I use my tripod more than anything.</div></div>

Just curious as to why they would not let LE use a bag of any sort?</div></div>

"They" aren't the one's not allowing me to use a bag. The situation is what prevents use of the bag. A prime example is a second story apartment with little to no furnishings. I just busted out the tripod and piled an old bean bag on a toybox to act as a seat. A bag was of no use there. I use sitting or kneeling MUCH more often than prone. Bags don't generally help in those positions.

I did have a picture of a hide that we setup at Camp Atterbury where we flipped a waterbed frame on it's side and set the rifle on top. Extending the bipod would have made the rig too high for me. Instead I left the legs folded and set them on my rear bag. Rear bags are nice and versatile that way.

The next room over we weren't able to do the same thing and resorted to sitting with the tripod.

Honestly for what I do a good tripod is way more useful than even the bipod. I use a bipod and keep it on the rifle because it's compact and not in the way if I don't use it.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would it be safe to say that a rear bag is faster to "dial in"?</div></div>
Lone Wolf answered this one.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly how are the adjustments made on the Atlas mono pod?</div></div>
Ha! It has a large screw/bolt inside so rotating the "handle" you minutely adjust the height. For gross adjustments there's a release button - push it and the monopod slides up or down rapidly.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The individuals statement about a mono pod digging in after a shot made a lot of sense.</div></div>
Hmm, I don't dig this.

But then my experience of shooting prone off the soft earth is nil.

 

[gugubica]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I used to be a bag guy, but after shooting with an accu-shot for a while, I have found that it is way more accurate for me. I still carry a bag though, as stated, it way much more versitile when rused as a forarm rest.

 

[IrishArrow]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

rear bag will work fine

 

[headwaters]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I owned and used several Accu-shots. Very tight, very stable, great for dialing in a fine elevation...when I was shooting groups off a benchrest. The rest of the time (from improvised positions, including prone) I found them to be slow, awkward, and a huge distraction. I understand why some people love them; a very well designed and thought-out product. But I sold mine. Bags work best for me in the real world.

If you asked the question, you should try the product. If you don't like it, someone will buy it at a modest markdown. You won't be out very much, and then you'll know for sure.

 

[PaulW]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Rear bag is faster and more versitile IMO.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PaulW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rear bag is faster and more versitile IMO. </div></div>
It may be faster - but consider the extra time to fetch it and put where you need it. The monopod is just there with the rifle. <span style="font-style: italic">Yes I'm aware of bags that attach to the butt-stock, but that impacts convenience of rifle carrying.</span>

Overall, to me a <span style="text-decoration: underline">good</span> monopod is a better compromise than a good rear bag.

There's something to be said about versatility - like using that bag as a forearm rest, etc. Can't argue with that. Still, my monopod is there.

 

[harrisjl]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I found my accuracy increased a good deal when I took the monopod off and learned to use a bag.

However, I would be curious to try it again now that I've done some of the hide lessons and learned a few things there as well.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

There's just one problem with a rear bag, it requires a platform. As the shooter's position gets higher from the ground, bringing with it the need to bring the comb to the head rather than the head to the comb, the usefulness of the rear bag is questionable; and, it may even undermine good results since it may force the shooter into a position which is muscularly tense. My suggestion, just place the butt into the pocket formed from shouldering the gun. If you're not steady, look for a cure rather than a treatment, learn the elements and factors of a steady position and how to apply them for a good postion which will not require dubious aids like a rear bag.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Both. It depends on place and position.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

9 out of 10 Taliban prefer being shot using a rear monopod...

Next time I'm shooting Taliban, I'll be sure to buy one before I set out.

 

[k2peaker]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Apparently very application dependent.
For L-R Competitions (no LE/Mil applications for me), I use both. I have the AccuPod and I have four different rear bags depending on the match.
I do like the upgrade to the AccuPod where the adjustement is done via a spring-loaded button. I use it as a coarse adjustment (on top of a bag) and then fine-tune via the threaded screw stop (for stability).
Note: virtually all of my LR compeitive experience is shot from prone (some more comfortable than others). And, you typically have about 20 seconds between shots/targets (already ranged them). Of course, depending on the amount of swing and elevation change I usually have enough time to use the AccuPod for the set up shot to shot. I'm dialing for elevation, holding for wind.

Worst case is I either squeeze the bag (increase height) or pressure the AccuPod down (decrease height) if there is not time. Occasionally, my left fist grabbing the AccuPod becomes the adjustment (RH shooter). I feel I get the best of both worlds doing it this way and by using the AccuPod I can go with a smaller/lighter bag. Important for the matches where we're schlepping some distance between stages.

 

[Kasey]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

My observations based on personal experience as well as feedback from end users.

Fact, bean bags require muscle to maintain the desired sight picture, a monopod does not. And we are taught to use our bones to support, not muscle.

Fact, a monopod is not slower than a bean bag. First, most folks with such a opinion do not consider the time it takes to get the bag into position. But in the "real world" that time to retrieve, place and position the bean bag counts. And if starting the clock from the position of bag on the deck under the buttstock and the monopod deployed, the monopod is faster in obtaining multiple targets when used as a "lever" pivoting from front to back (which raises and lowers the muzzle) and as it is attached, there is no concern for keeping the rifle on the "support" when panning left/right which is the case with a bean bag. And for stationary targets, using the quick knob decreases time needed to acquire the target, as does holding on the target while spinning the knob till contact with the deck is made.

I could go on but I'm afraid I am showing my bias here.... for most shooters that enjoy choosing when and where they are going to shoot it is about comfort which translates to better shooting. For guys that don't have that luxury and have to carry their gear, the monopod makes sense, not to all of them but enough that it's becoming more and more common.

One fault of the monopod is it needs explained, the bean bag does not. We will be updating our website and plan to demonstrate the techniques described via video clips.

And to be clear, I have no problem with people that choose a bean bag over a monopod, we still enjoy shooting and that is paramount. And I have no problem with using a bean bag, in fact I made one and as I know several guys here that make them, I was careful not to copy their designs;

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9 out of 10 Taliban prefer being shot using a rear monopod...</div></div>
Wonderful! Make sure to publish this valuable survey!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next time I'm shooting Taliban, I'll be sure to buy one before I set out.</div></div>
I would say "and buy one for me please!" but I already got one...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One fault of the monopod is it needs explanation, the bean bag does not.</div></div>
True. On the other hand, monopod needs to be explained <span style="text-decoration: underline">once</span>. Once it's done - it's done. So no biggie...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I can't quote the survey, the info is secondhand from the adjacent barstool at the VFW...

 

[Kasey]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

I'm not going to give the details but we did just get a PO for a large number of monopods yesterday that are destined to US guys hunting bad guys.

So, on another note, by connecting the dots, the survey referenced by Greg Langelius, while the source, known as "adjacent barstool" is a little suspect, it's accuracy is not....

 

[frankythefly]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Get the mono pod if you don't like it you can make a bag with an old GI issue sock and some sand.

 

[john2000]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Personally, when shooting prone with the AICS system I use a combo of Accu-shot monopod,fist and rear bag.
Monopod only for those flat-surface range sessions where you have all the time in the world, fist or bag with or without monopod extended for the rest, all depending on angle and surface.
I keep the monopod screwed about 2/3ds out so it has some length to it when flipping it down, that way it actually makes a difference right away without any adjustments, with it folded back in I can use the bag or fist only for higher angled shots.
My bag consists of a pair of thin cold-weather socks (made from some high-tech material an wool) folded up around a sealed (by a knot) good-quality plastic bag with a good handfull of long-grained rice.
The rice has in my opinion the right friction and feel to it, making it steadier than sand or other harder materials.
This also doubles as a spare pair of warm socks and a meal-almost ready to eat..., the plastic bag can be used for other things as well in a pinch

Anyway, this is another one of those questions with highly individual answers, personal preference will set ones standards.
Try as many different solutions as possible and choose whatever suits you best! If it doesnt work out in the long run, go back and try something else...

John - out

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Anyone reading this that has an Accu-shot monopod for an AI and doesn't like it, feel free to PM me with an offer. I would like an opportunity to try one out without paying the price of a new one.

Thanks,

-Bob

 

[marxdspot]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Sandbag gets my vote.

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Couldn't resist, just ordered one today!

 

[Triad]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Kasey,

If you include a 12oz can(for reference) in that photograph of your bean bag, I will add it to my bean bag comparison thread

 

[Kasey]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Triad,

As I did not like the bean bag, I decided to can the beans so no such comparison is possible. However, to put it in perspective, the material used for the bag in the bean bag in the photo is a standard small plastic WalMart bag. It was left open so to allow adding or removing beans as needed to adjust for elevation. At 9 pounds it was very stable but I found this whole set-up un-acceptable, not only would the beans shift around changing my POA they would compress making a juice that attracted crawly creatures. And as I threw the seed packet away, I cannot comment on the type of bean used other than common green bean.

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

So, because of this thread, and living in Maine, I bought a AI monopod with the quick knob and the tac-cap, because I wasn't going to be able to try one otherwise.

Still forming my opinions on it, I'll update after I have, but for everyone who tried one WITHOUT the "quick-knob," you definitely should. It shaves off a TON of adjustment time.

 

[1802]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

If you are still thinking of getting one let me know, I have one that has only been used twice.

 

[Kasey]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

bm11, Thanks for giving the monopod a try. Think of it as steering for your rifle, and keep your off hand on it while firing. Small adjustments can be made while working the bolt and if engaging multiple or moving targets, use the knob as a lever, pivoting it front to back to raise/lower the butt-stock.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Late to the game as usual,

I tried an Accushot monopod, and it was OK as long as I was shooting at fairly flat/level trajectories. I found that when I was shooting at a pretty good up or down angle it just did not have enough range of adjustment. Stability was good, but not as good as using a bag IMHO. Big advantage was the mobility and speed with having it attached directly to the rifle, and not having to try and keep up with a separate bag.

I was not real happy using a bag with the AICS Stock design so I did a little modification to my stock:

Now I can make quick, easy, fine adjustments by sliding the bag forward or backward under the sloped angle.

It has worked pretty well so far, but I may make another modification to try and extend the length and increase the angle a little more.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bm11, Thanks for giving the monopod a try. Think of it as steering for your rifle, and keep your off hand on it while firing. Small adjustments can be made while working the bolt and if engaging multiple or moving targets, use the knob as a lever, pivoting it front to back to raise/lower the butt-stock. </div></div>Still haven't rendered an opinion on it. I seem to be getting better with practice, but I still find a rear bag more comfortable and more precise, as well as faster.

Not selling it off just yet though, especially where I already cut the foam in my Storm case to fit it...

 

[harrisjl]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kasey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bm11, Thanks for giving the monopod a try. Think of it as steering for your rifle, and keep your off hand on it while firing. Small adjustments can be made while working the bolt and if engaging multiple or moving targets, use the knob as a lever, pivoting it front to back to raise/lower the butt-stock. </div></div>Still haven't rendered an opinion on it. I seem to be getting better with practice, but I still find a rear bag more comfortable and more precise, as well as faster.

Not selling it off just yet though, especially where I already cut the foam in my Storm case to fit it... </div></div>

That was pretty much my experience as well, when I got back into shooting for accuracy not too long ago one of the first things I did was pick up an accu-shot monopod (in fact I have 3 now). Used them for over to a year, even took the AICS mounted one to a week long class at gunsite. But I never could get the accuracy\consistency I wanted. When I took it off the effect was immediate, the reticle wobble went away and the accuracy increased dramatically.

That sounds counter-intuitive, a hunk of metal should be more "solid" and repeatable than a bag full of pellets, but for me, its not.

 

[Kasey]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

JLharris, Thank you for giving the Accu-Shot a try and I am very interested in your experience.

I have found;

1. Some will adjust the monopod on the deck, get the desired sight picture, then let go of the monopod placing their off hand elsewhere on the rifle.

2. Some will adjust the monopod on the deck and hold just the leg of the monopod with no contact of the hand to the deck.

The best way I have found is to place the off-hand low on the leg so the hand "marries" the leg to the deck. Then the bottom of the leg does the heavy lifting the heel of the hand tweaks the sight picture with more or less pressure. And on the "Locking" versions when the monopod is installed properly, and the Thumbnut is jammed against the knob, there should be zero play meaning no movement seen through the scope other than user induced.

Does any of this make sense and/or describe how you used them?

 

[mouse07410]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Kasey, right on the spot! That's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[bm11]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Ok, so I have a bunch more time behind my monopod, and have actually done some group testing back to back vs a bag. While I felt more secure with the bag, I was surprised to find that the best groups were delivered (by a small margin) by the monopod. Close enough so that I could say that the accuracy was equal.

I have found my best success using my off hand to apply additional pressure holding the rifle into my shoulder pocket with the upper part of my off hand on the butt hook and the lower part on the monopod.

The above grip has held the rifle steady enough through recoil that minimal adjustments need to be made to adjust the rifle for the follow up shots. Still, the bag is much faster than the knob for making adjustments necessary for a follow up shot (when looking for .5 moa accuracy.)

My one wish would be a little bit shorter monopod. If I could cut .5-.75 inches off it, it would work better for the bipod height that I tend to set up. I like to use my Atlas with the legs all the way retracted when possible, and even with a slight downward cant to the 100 yard berm at my range, it still requires digging a small hole for the monopod to achieve this.

 

[harrisjl]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Kasey, I would say I tried all those at one point or another. Most of the time I'm shooting off a bench that has a rubber mat on it, I would set the pod at the height I needed then tighten the ring to firm it up then apply back pressure to the pod with my off hand. That never really did make the rifle rock solid (bipod is an atlas)

I really didnt have much luck trying to hold it off the ground but I'm willing to give that another shot (especially since I've upgraded rifles since to an AIAE, a GAP and I have one due from wnroscoe before long)

I would say it worked really well at the class making long range shots off the ground from prone, it was when I got back and tried to get group/ distance to center sizes down that I tried going to bags.

 

[PaulW]

Re: AICS - Rear bag or mono pod?

Rear bag is so much easier to quickly adjust.