AK 47 question

[chaos27delta]

I know what you are thinking. What the hell, AK 47 on this forum; this guy is crazy. Hear me out first. I used to own a Romanian SAR 5.45x39 AK74. I sold it to a friend of mine over a year ago and have kicked my self in the A$* ever since. It wasn't very accurate but ammo was cheap and it was fun to shot. When I return home, I was thinking about buying another AK. Have my mind set on a AK 47. But what should I buy. Any AK Guru's out there have any advice for me? I have read claims on the net that the Vepr's, Arsenal, and vector are the best built and better quality (parts kits etc...) what do you think?

Here are some pics of my old AK. I plan on doing the same; change out furniture, spray with Aervoe flat paint, finish with Brownells Aluma-Hyde 2 clear, install muzzle compensator if needed

 

[armydog]

Re: AK 47 question

I have a Romanian AK-47 love it for plinking, It has a stamped receiver and if i replace it i will get one with a milled receiver AK-47, I can't remember the maker, i like the larger bullet and as long as ammo is cheap I'll stick with it.

 

[Shooter45]

Re: AK 47 question

If you want a quality AK, purchase a Arsenal. They have an assortment of models and calibers to fit your liking. They are the closest make to Russian specs, also very high in quality. Regular "Romanian" type Ak's have horrible triggers that have the popular "trigger slap". The Arsenal's have quality triggers and good accuracy for a AK. Also, stay away from milled AK's unless you buy an Arsenal. The milled receivers are made with a weaker steel and the guide rails will wear out faster than a standard stamped receiver. There are a lot of Arsenals and various other AK's on AR15.com if you're interested.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/
http://www.ar15.com/

 

[VYD]

Re: AK 47 question

+1 for ARSENAL. Smooth as silk, high quality.

 

[chaos27delta]

Re: AK 47 question

Thanks I appreciate it.

 

[Barikade]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for ARSENAL. Smooth as silk, high quality. </div></div>

Another vote for arsenal, the side folders also have the best feel for a folding stock both open and closed.
As far as caliber, take a long hard look at 5.45x39, you can find it for 10 cents a <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> loaded <span style="font-style: italic"> </span> round, cant beat that.

 

[cutnhrse]

Re: AK 47 question

I vote for the new VEPR MD2's. Massive target barrel, polished op rod and pretty smooth through the rear sight housing. You can get an agjustable gas block for them, so you can suppress and tune it. It has a 1/4" extra on the barrel length if you wanna recrown with an 11 degree. They are just... bad ass as interms of an AK... Period.
However, they are kinda spensive. They start at around $8-900 depending on where ya get'em, or, for that matter, find'em. Oh and ONLY use Barnaul ammo if you want it to shoot str8. It is very good stuff.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: AK 47 question

If you're in the Arsenal ballpark anyway, my vote is for a Krebs. They are outstanding in all forms.

http://www.krebscustom.com

 

[edwin907]

Re: AK 47 question

I've got a Milled Arsenal A1R 7.62X39. Fit, finish is exceptional, shoots great, zero problems.
Added a PRI 3" SPR forearm accessory rail to the bottom of the front handguard (just drill 2 holes, stock hardware clears cleaning rod).
Also replaced stock with Warsaw Pact length, and installed lefty QD swivels front and rear.
Lowered/centered BP scope mount for the Aimpoint. After experimenting with different rear sights, I settled on a RPK style calibrated to this barrel length. Even picked up a defective Znich light cheap, fixed it with simple re-wiring/soldering.
With the custom sling mounts, Aimpoint, and tactical light this is a superb piece of kit.

 

[chaos27delta]

Re: AK 47 question

Thanks everyone for info; gonna look into vepr MD2 and Arsenal

 

[parkze17]

Re: AK 47 question

+1 on the arsenal. They are great right out of the box! If you have the funds go with it. I have a WASR also which was my first real trip into the world of customization. With a 3 lb trigger upgrade from brownells for 100 bucks it shoots pretty good also. I wouldn't shy away from them they are a bargain for around 350-400 bucks. If you do get one make sure you handle the one your buying first, I had 4 in my hand before I found one with just a little magazine movement. One of them it seemed to move 1/2 inch each way lol. I have close to 1500 rounds out of it now and it shoots well. I am no expert marksman and can put 4 shots off the bipod at 100 yards around 5 inch groups with junk ammo using an EOtech. Off shoulder its prolly more like 8 or 9 inches.

Here is my WASR...I do not shoot it with the Piece of crap FTF fake supressor on it because it throws my shots everywhere but where it needs to be. It is just on there for the picture I use a tapco 74 style break instead.

 

[dlxcupid]

Re: AK 47 question

How about a Norinco MAK-90? Best bang for the buck IMHO. Awesome trigger, build quality, fit and finish. Brand new stamped ones can be had for around $600.

 

[_DE_]

Re: AK 47 question

Where is the wood? All this plastic, rails, and paint is nuts.

 

[z71rat]

Re: AK 47 question

I am probably one of the rare people that love the WASRs. I have had 3 of them, and have never had a problem out of them at all.

I changed out the stock trigger with a Tapco, and it was very nice. My last one was super accurate, even for the 7.62x39. I also changed the wood out for an OD green synthetic setup with the NATO length rear. Great balance, great looks, super feel.

DK

 

[parkze17]

Re: AK 47 question

My wasr came with a tapco trigger group in it actually. Thats the one in the pic I didnt change the trigger group until I had a few hundred rounds out of it. I did not care for it, I thought it was sloppy but it may be a different tapco one than you put in yours.

 

[chaos27delta]

Re: AK 47 question

Was looking around some more on my off time on the net. I might just end up getting a NIB Saiga 308 for $500; put new furniture on it and send it to rifle dynamics to get it fixed up. would run around couple hundred more than buying brand new arsenal. Not to bad at all.

http://rifledynamics.com/index.php
Saiga Conversion
•Basic Saiga Rifle Conversions,
•Remove stock furniture, triggerguard, FCG
•Move trigger forward to original position
•Fit new G-2 trigger group
•Refit bolt carrier
•Install bullet guide
•Fit magazine well/Magazine catch
•Dehorn parts that operator touches
•Sandblast, Parkerize and finish Norrells Moly Resin
•Cut 21 inch barrel to 18inch, crown, thread,
•Install muzzle brake, bolten gas block, and fuller rear sight
•Test fire and zero

 

[Keyser Söze]

Re: AK 47 question

Arsenals are pretty. No doubt. If you want an overpriced pretty looking safe queen, (my opinion, of course) go for it.

Are they better than other AKs? Thats debatable. (the people that tell you they definitely are, are usually the ones who dropped $1500 on one and are trying to justify their purchase, IME)

IMO, as someone who has owned over a dozen different Aks, I'd say no, definitely not. My SSR85c outshot my SA-M7. (just judging Bulgarian vs Bulgarian to be fair)

The M70s are nice, as are the SSR85c's. I have a Romy "G" kit build too that I love. I absolutely also love (gasp) my WASR10/63's and I probably shoot/have shot them more than any of the others. Saigas are cheap to convert too, and great guns, as well as being as close to an AK as you'll get.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regular "Romanian" type Ak's have horrible triggers that have the popular "trigger slap".</div></div>

That was years ago.

For the past several years the Romanian AKs come with Tapco G2s, which solves the "trigger slap"


EDIT: Also, just to note, Arsenals hold their value the least of any AK. As an example, the SA-M7s went for like $1600. You'd be lucky to sell one for $800 used on a good day. As soon as you "drive it off the lot" the value drops by at least 40% instantly. Not the case with all other AKs.

 

[Snakum]

Re: AK 47 question

I just did a Saiga 308 conversion and finally have it down under 2 MOA consistently after two barrel trims, brake addition, and lots of load development work. I have maybe $700 in it and it shoots pretty well. Doing the same thing with their x39 rifle would run you around $500 and you'd have a weapon on par with the Arsenal, and it would hold it's value better.

I love WASRs. Myself and a few others developed a list of upgrades/fixes that make them fully match ready, reliable, and reasonably accurate. Mine are all quite accurate for AKs and uber reliable. And I could sell them tomorrow for almost what I have it them.

 

[wrenchead80]

Re: AK 47 question

I have a Romainian wasr 10 it is a cheap gun that is fun to shoot, fairly accurate, but overal a cheaply made gun that will get the job done.

 

[edwin907]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyser Söze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arsenals are pretty. No doubt. If you want an overpriced pretty looking safe queen, (my opinion, of course) go for it.
</div></div>

Wow, I'm glad I got mine (milled A1R) pre-depreciated, a buddy got one brand new for $625 with 10 mags & bayo back when they weren't selling, are they really going for $1600? That's insane!
My Norinco NHM-91 was $261 with a 75rd drum and a 5rd mag back in '93 (Atlanta)! I think I still have the add somewhere, my times are changing.

The M70s are fine examples of an AK, and have had friends with great experiences with converted Saigas as well.
Any properly built AK with a good barrel will shoot about as well as any other, at least in my experience.
Out of all my AKs, the underfolder M92 SBR is likely the most fun to shoot, and gives up very little in accuracy to it's longer barreled cousins, unlike the shorty 5.45mm Krinkovs I've tried.
Got an unfired MAK90 sporter (thumbhole stock) kit from 10(??) years ago that my brother bought and never built (and a Sten MKIII kit!). Need to do something with that AK!

Edit: almost forgot about my Valmet 308 M-78, $600 with 5 extra mags ($15 each) in the mid 80s, wow that was almost as expensive as a HK!

 

[JellowJacket]

Re: AK 47 question

A Draco carbine would be nice as long as you get it checked for fit and function.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: AK 47 question

I'm a huge Kalashikov fan, but also a purist.....meaning I like an AK like it is. Don't care for hanging all kinds of crap on it, or trying to make it into an AR. Arsenal makes fine guns, Krebs is also a good choice, but you might consider building one, or at least have a qualified Smith build one from a parts kit....lots of wonderful guns are here in the States, just in kit form.

 

[samnev]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 for ARSENAL. Smooth as silk, high quality. </div></div>
Arsenal is the way to go.

 

[Guerrilla Monsoon]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a huge Kalashikov fan, but also a purist.....meaning I like an AK like it is. Don't care for hanging all kinds of crap on it, or trying to make it into an AR. </div></div>

Me too. Although I<span style="font-style: italic"> do </span>really like the Tech Sights aperture I put on my M70 (twice the sight radius). And the Phantom flash hider.

 

[mwolters]

Re: AK 47 question

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the suggestions. You can pay more upfront and have a reasonable guarantee of a great weapon, or you can go with one of the lesser expensive options. If it isn't exactly what you want, you have room to put some money into it. If you are inclined to do a little research and try some basic gunsmithing, I would suggest going with a Saiga and converting it yourself. I built up a parts kit, and was very pleased with the end result. I by no means had any experience gunsmithing or working with metal.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: AK 47 question

who are the parts kit suppliers--any sponsors here?

 

[AlterEgo]

Re: AK 47 question

 

[cutnhrse]

Re: AK 47 question

Words can't describe the awsomeness!!

 

[Alderleet]

Re: AK 47 question

Polish 1960's milled AK47. Fantastic quality, smooth operation, and you dont get fucked over with arsenal's prices...

$600 for a milled AK, with a double tang receiver is winning. I dont care who you are.

 

[marduk185]

Re: AK 47 question

rock a wasr10. replace the grip out for one of the better shaped aftermarket and rock it. only problem with ak's is they aint fal's.

 

[rpk762]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlterEgo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

I know what you are talking about. Bubba

Just think of all those Artards who Bubba'd their old Mil surplus rifles over the years. Oh I have to have a scope on this! I need to cut down the stock blah reblue Blah repark Blah bent bolt handle blah cut down the barrel blah new stock cut off old sights blah removed markings blah rebarrel whatever they say.

Then they will try to sell it and tell you oh it is a custom build and it is worth what a 99% original will bring. I called out a few people when I went to look at their old bolt. I can see where you use a hack saw to cut of the barrel. Did you use a drill to put a new crown on this? What happened to the stock? “well it was not shiny and I had to sand forever to get past what looked like oil so the stain would stick.” My reply to that is well I will give you $150 for the action. You can keep the stock. They are always mad. They just do not know how they actually took a rifle that was worth something and turned it into a pile of junk.

I have a relative that has took a early K98 and buba’d it. I was able to see it before he started and I would think it was over 90%. It was an all milled K98 not stamped like at the end of the war. I asked him how much he paid for it and offered him double then triple. He would not take it and he screwed that rifle hard. After the build I asked for any of the extra parts and he tossed them. The new cal does shoot really well but it is not worth the sum total of parts he used to build it up. He literally took a rifle worth thousands of dollars and turned it into something you could not get $500 for. That is something a “hunter” would do. FRACKING HUNTERS!!! God I hate them! Fracking hate hunters!

Ok I am better now. When all of us were sitting around and telling stories about shooting game ( they were telling hunting stories) Grandpa brought up Al’s rifle. That is when I told everyone he took a rifle that would literally buy you a very good used car and turned it into a $450 pile of hunting shit.

It is their rifle or toy to screw how they see fit. I am ok with it. I love telling people they just took a rifle that is worth a lot and turned it into something that they have to keep because they will not get what they have into it. Makes me cringe and laugh.

 

[7.62 Re[)E^^pT!oN]

Re: AK 47 question

They are better in all original form! The AK that is, not the blonde!

But yes, the AK in original form is hard to beat. I have a Romy WASR, and for the little I paid, It has been an outstanding rifle. Granted it's not a 2moa, 3moa, or maybe even a 6moa gun, but is as never failed me, ever. I can see maybe adding a few non permanent mods to it, but alot of extra things like scopes, mounts, rails, grips and the such just make a good reliable gun heavier than need be. And yes, I will admit, I have done almost all those things to mine in the past, but she is now in original uniform, so to speak. Minus the donkey d**k foregrip. I hated that thing! I stuck with a Tapco TG and a Phantom Vortex style brake, and left her as issued. It's a great rifle for the money, and I would buy a hundred of them if the budget allowed. So for the money, I will take a WASR any day.


Oh yea, here ya go.
Where I come from,
a pic is worth a thousand words.

And hey, is that an SKS in that Chinese Propaganda Poster???
That ForceMultiplier guy is gonna be pissed!!
I am a transplant from SKSBoards.com, he was giving me hell about it.

 

[rpk762]

Re: AK 47 question

7.62 Re[)E^^pT!oN That blond is not a standard mod to that AK. I think you will want to keep that mod.

 

[7.62 Re[)E^^pT!oN]

Re: AK 47 question

Oh absolutely!! She's a keeper for sure!

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: AK 47 question

The Arsenals are very nice. Nodak spud receivers with a good parts kit and a good smith can rival them I think.

 

[CL1KKL4C]

Re: AK 47 question

another +1 for the WASR 10/63 as stated they come with tapco g2 triggers now. If you just want something to plink with and know it will always go BANG a $400 WASR is hard to beat.

Just handpick one make sure the sights arn't canted, the mag wobble isn't as big of an issue as some might think. It is a quite easy fix as well.

 

[mwolters]

Re: AK 47 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who are the parts kit suppliers--any sponsors here? </div></div>

www.apexgunparts.com is a good source.

 

[Tact999]

Re: AK 47 question

Arsenals are worth the money and well built rifles. If you have money and the wait (4 months) sending whatever you purchase to Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics is the way to go. It is by the best investment anyone could put into an AK. If you want to put on optics I recommend the dogleg Gen 2 rail and the handy ACOG Trijicon makes for the 7.62x39 round works great. Even an ACOG on a 74 (5.45x39) will hit steel consistently out to 500 pretty easy.

 

[chaos27delta]

Re: AK 47 question

Thanks

 

[TwoGun]

Re: AK 47 question

They're all crap but I have an Arsenal SGL-21 because it's got an Izhmash stamp (no Saiga logo) and from what I understand Kalashnikov still gets a paycheck from them. Hell of a reason to get one but it was the only thing to justify it. Impulse buy from AIMS surplus. Bryanfreakinrocks!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=217&t=185369

For $729, it sure does not impress. It does have a chrome line bore and grenade and bayonet lug! Woo hoo!

 

[JJRawr]

Re: AK 47 question

I don't know much about aks but they're fun to shoot and cheap so you can't lose anyway you go imo

 

[operatorj]

Re: AK 47 question

Has anyone had any experience with the I.O. AKs. They are I believe 100% made in the USA in N.C. I handled one at my local gun shop and the action, trigger, fit and finish are very nice. It has the Tapco trigger,forarm and side folder on it.

 

[justsayno]

Re: AK 47 question

Any one handle the Vepr in 762x54R yet???

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AK 47 question

My only AK is a WASR 10. I am not an AK elitist. The WASR does what I need an AK to do.

Mine came with the TAPCO trigger. It doesn't have any slap. The magwell isn't sloppy (although it does appear the dremel monkey attacked it) and the FSB and Gas Block are straight.

I picked it up local, so I looked it over first. I don't know if I would buy a WASR through the mail unless I got a return guarantee.

After refinishing the stocks.

 

[onetoe]

Re: AK 47 question

It is unlikely unless you have a full automatic that you actually have an AK47. The Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947 (AK47) is a full automatic weapon. To the best of my understanding of Russian Avtomat means "machine that can operate without human interference", or automatic. So much like the M16 which was a full auto or select fire assault rifle, the semi-automatic civilian version was the AR15 (Armalite Rifle). Evidentially the importers of this rifle couldn't figure that part out.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: AK 47 question

Check out the big brain on bwo6.5!!

Damn, I thought my gunshow SAR was an authentic Spetznaz killing machine, I better get my money back.