Range Report Alco 7mm (.284" ) 168 grain RBT projectiles

[clcustom1911]

Good morning,

With the introduction of the Hornady A-Tip rounds, and there being no choices for 7mm....

I had been eyeballing the Alco 7mm offerings for a few months and decided decided to order some 168 grain aluminum tip, rebated boat tail bullets. I was able to order them on 4/30 and received them on 5/3. Customer service was absolutely top notch and the folks at Alco are absolutely wonderful to work with. I will order more likely based solely on that experience.

Here are the bullets:

Info on the website says they are 1.5" long, I measured 10 out of the 100 I ordered, and the average was 1.533. Weights were 168 +/- 0.1gr. The bearing surface length was .7"

I'm going to pair these with my Atlas Development Group brass for my 7mm RemMag.

I want to get y'all some confirmation of the advertised G1 BC of .803 and some G7 numbers as I play with them and chase the accuracy dragon. My goal is to push these at least 2800 FPS out of my 24" barrel (not unreasonable).

With the advertised .803 G1 BC, DA of 4200, Temp 105 (typical of my long range desert spot in summer), I should be supersonic to 1850+.

Take care and be safe.

 

[clcustom1911]

In my 1x fired and cleaned ADG brass... looks like jewelry ??

 

[Mordamer]

I'll be the first to guess that their claimed BC is way higher than actual.

 

[clcustom1911]

Well see. When I talked to the bulletsmith he said that was the BC at 2500 FPS on their software. I'm definitely OK with testing it to see where it falls. My goal is to push these between 2800-2900. I plan on taking a 5'x5' piece of plywood to the desert, painting it white with a black index line across the middle and setting it at 400, 600, 800, 1000, and probably 1200 to see where the bullets lay.

I'm eyeballing a 28" Proof M24 1:8 as we speak. It's a really reallyyyy good price. Almost impossible to say "no" to. That and a Hensoldt ZF (I can dream).

 

[b6graham]

I'll be the first to guess that their claimed BC is way higher than actual.

i'd like to see these next to a 162 and 180 eldm

 

[Mordamer]

i'd like to see these next to a 162 and 180 eldm

I'd guess that the G1 BC of the above pictured bullets is lower than the 162 ELD-M BC. They don't even appear to be a low drag profile.

The fact that they used software to produce their published BC is a red flag. They would have produced a more accurate BC if they went out and shot 20 of their own bullets at distance. How can a company that is selling bullets like this not have verified field data?

This is one of the things that Blackjack bullets did right with their 25 caliber offering. They published a bunch of load data and real test data before the bullets were even released. Their claimed BC is very accurate.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about the ALCO bullets. Probably not.

 

[clcustom1911]

I'd guess that the G1 BC of the above pictured bullets is lower than the 162 ELD-M BC. They don't even appear to be a low drag profile.

The fact that they used software to produce their published BC is a red flag. They would have produced a more accurate BC if they went out and shot 20 of their own bullets at distance. How can a company that is selling bullets like this not have verified field data?

This is one of the things that Blackjack bullets did right with their 25 caliber offering. They published a bunch of load data and real test data before the bullets were even released. Their claimed BC is very accurate.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about the ALCO bullets. Probably not.

I fully intend to answer all those questions with the data I collect.

 

[rangerlong]

Can’t wait to see your data. What twist rate do you need to stabilize those?

 

[clcustom1911]

Can’t wait to see your data. What twist rate do you need to stabilize those?

The makers advised 1:9 is the slowest recommend. I've done assorted twist calculators from Berger, JBM, and McGowen which confirm a 1:9 will get me right at about 1.5 Sg stabilization with an air temp of 100 and DA of 4700 at 2800 FPS, but not in lower elevation and cooler temps and accompanying tid-bit slower velocity due to lower powder temp.... I would need to change the load to push the bullet faster to get the spin rate up. I hate needing "summer" and "winter" loads. I load where I am inside my personal safety margin for pressure for summer temps (100+) and everything else goes lower from there.

To remedy that, I just ordered a Proof Research all stainless 28" 1:8 .284 M24 unchambered barrel. This barrel will allow me to stabilize everything with an Sg of 1.7 to 1.9 depending on the bullet. The 1:8 will work with everything from these long 168's, Warmer 151 Flatlines, and on up to Sierra 197's in all atmospheric conditions with without having to worry about my normal variations of velocity for temperature, etc.

When I switched my RPR from stock 24" to a Proof 24" M24 Barrel, I gained 130 FPS with my Prime ammo. It went from 2820 to 2950!! So, when I switch from this factory 24" Tikka barrel, which Tikka's are known to be a bit slow, to a 26+" Proof I expect to gain at least 100-150 FPS of velocity with my current load. With the longer barrel I will be able to effectively run Retumbo and other similar slower powders with the heavies (175g+).

 

[rangerlong]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer, and for posting the bullet length.
I’ll have to run the sg number for my typical atmospherics and 1:9.25 twist.
Obviously won’t be the optimal 1.5+, but it might be stable enough to not tumble.

 

[clcustom1911]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer, and for posting the bullet length.
I’ll have to run the sg number for my typical atmospherics and 1:9.25 twist.
Obviously won’t be the optimal 1.5+, but it might be stable enough to not tumble.

True story. Will the bullets work out of my 1:9.5 Tikka? Yes, but the Sg was going to be like 1.3 or something close to that. This Proof Barrel popped up on my radar and for the price, it was a no-brainer.

Now I just need to find a good GunSmiff who can work magic. I know there's LRI and a bunch of others around the country on here, but I'll be supporting local boys here in Southern California for this one.

 

[clcustom1911]

Was doing some more measurements of these fancy things..

Where the bearing surface meets the Ogive, the diameter is .2845. Where the bearing surface meets the rebated area the diameter is .285.

It measured the same on 10 different randomly picked rounds.

 

[kthomas]

I'd guess that the G1 BC of the above pictured bullets is lower than the 162 ELD-M BC. They don't even appear to be a low drag profile.

The fact that they used software to produce their published BC is a red flag. They would have produced a more accurate BC if they went out and shot 20 of their own bullets at distance. How can a company that is selling bullets like this not have verified field data?

This is one of the things that Blackjack bullets did right with their 25 caliber offering. They published a bunch of load data and real test data before the bullets were even released. Their claimed BC is very accurate.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about the ALCO bullets. Probably not.

I have serious doubts as well.

From what I recall, the company is a small time bullet manufacturer in Canada that makes their bullets for a small segment of the hunting market.

 

[clcustom1911]

I have serious doubts as well.

From what I recall, the company is a small time bullet manufacturer in Canada that makes their bullets for a small segment of the hunting market.

You are Fake News.


I've talked to the owner/maker, and his wife. The bullets are made in and shipped from.....

Missouri.

 

[kthomas]

You are Fake News.


I've talked to the owner/maker, and his wife. The bullets are made in and shipped from.....

Missouri.

View attachment 7074848

There was (is?) a Canadian barrel bullet manufacturer that produces(d) bullets exactly like the ones in the thread, and I thought had the exact same name.

Did this Missouri company buy them out?

 

[kthomas]

Okay, so I was mistaken. I was thinking of Chinchaga bullets based out of British Columbia.

They also produce a .284 RBT 168 grain bullet that looks identical to the Alco. It has a Applied Ballistics dopler confirmed G1 BC of .545.

 

[clcustom1911]

They do look similar. Looks like the Chinchaga are all steel tipped. These ALCO's are aluminum. We'll see how it goes! I'm looking forward to test these out a few with my current 9.5 twist barrel, and then with my 8 twist barrel when I get it mounted on my Tikka. Bill, the maker, said .020 off the lands are what most of his customers are having success with. I'm his only 7mm RemMag customer, the rest are mainly 28 Nosler and 7-300 Practical

 

[clcustom1911]

Found this on the Tube...

Alco 6.5mm load development, use on deer and hog, and .951" group at 200 yards

Well see how my stuff goes.

 

[Mordamer]

Found this on the Tube...

Alco 6.5mm load development, use on deer and hog, and .951" group at 200 yards

Well see how my stuff goes.

And your results now that it has been a month?

Anxiously waiting to say I told ya so...

 

[clcustom1911]

That's for bugging me for follow-up.

I've only had time to go on one load development outing.

Temp: 72*f
SP: 25.47 inHg
RH: 44%
DA: ~6400

All I did was shoot 5 rounds loaded with 72g of WC857 powder out of Atlas development group brass. 72 is my load for my 168 Matchking in R-P Brass which does really well. bearing surface on the Matchking is .575", the Alco's bearing surface is .700". They were loaded .020" off lands and were too long for my Tikka to mag load, so I single loaded them.


Group was right about 1 MOA and velocity was 2810, SD 11, ES 28 measured by Magnetospeed. So, for essentially a randomly picked powder charge in a different casing with a different bullet than what I normally shoot.... Not horrible. I do look forward to testing more when I get more time. It's been tough to shoot as much I would like the last couple months between the stupid rains and my work schedule.

 

[b6graham]

so...whats the BC come to at distance?

 

[clcustom1911]

so...whats the BC come to at distance?

Fuck if I know! I've only shot it at 100 just to see what it would do. I'll make and shoot more when I have time.

If you guys are THAT thirsty for knowledge, go do your own load development. Until you do, you're on my schedule ??????

I'm also waiting for my Proof 1:8 twist barrel to show up and get it spun up onto my Tikka. Aside from these Alco's, I bought 1500 183g Matchkings as my main projectile to shoot out of the new barrel.

 

[kthomas]

Any updates on this? I'm curious to see what the actual BC ended up being.

 

[clcustom1911]

Friday is going to be OCW-ish test in the ADG brass. Once I get that info I'll load up a good number in the desired load and out to the desert we go.

 

[Emouse]

I'd guess that the G1 BC of the above pictured bullets is lower than the 162 ELD-M BC. They don't even appear to be a low drag profile.

The fact that they used software to produce their published BC is a red flag. They would have produced a more accurate BC if they went out and shot 20 of their own bullets at distance. How can a company that is selling bullets like this not have verified field data?

This is one of the things that Blackjack bullets did right with their 25 caliber offering. They published a bunch of load data and real test data before the bullets were even released. Their claimed BC is very accurate.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about the ALCO bullets. Probably not.

Yes your wrong. Its a 14 secant ULD and based on a design that has been around for a long time. What is needed for the ULD's are faster than normal twists to see full BC potential ( well documented by Hornady in the ELD/AMAX development). Several manufacturers use tooling of the same origin and the ULD design was originally for a US Govt contract as far back as the 70's. There are plenty of shooters out there that quietly use these bullets with good results. ALCO offer steel and aluminum tips which alters length so that you can in most cases still mag feed. Other manufacturers offer ULD's that are hunting specific ( Rocky Mountain Bullets etc).

Before trashing a manufacturer with what you think,...check your facts.

 

[wvfarrier]

Did we ever get any updates? I working on the Alco 168s for 308 Win. I had good success with the 155s but just bought some 168s to play with

 

[clcustom1911]

Did we ever get any updates? I working on the Alco 168s for 308 Win. I had good success with the 155s but just bought some 168s to play with

It's on the back burner for now, unfortunately.

 

[wvfarrier]

It's on the back burner for now, unfortunately.

Im planning to try the 168s with CFE 223 but havent settled on a starting load yet

 

[Kickin45]

Been almost 3yrs. Anyone have any updates on ALCO?

 

[Mordamer]

Been almost 3yrs. Anyone have any updates on ALCO?

Junk.