Hunting & Fishing All around Hunting Caliber Choice 300 win mag, wsm, rum wby, 7 wsm,

[Flylow]

Hello,

I'm new but have been reading for quite some time now. I'm going to have GAP build me an Extreme Hunter and am having trouble settling on a caliber. I do want the gun to be as light as possible but I want to be able to ethically kill animals out to 800 yards and shoot for fun in the 1000 yrd range. I want a all around gun I can take on white-tail, elk, sheep, goat, and moose.

I haven't payed for the gun yet and I originally told them 300 Win Mag but must make up my mind prior to paying naturally. My father has a brown precision in 300 wby that he has carried most of his hunting carrier killing the above animals an loves it so he is naturally pushing me in that direction. My buddy is pushing me in the 7 wsm direction. I'm under the impression that the 300 RUM kicks like a mule and is a barrel burner. Ballistically I see that the wby its better than the Win Mag but has more recoil. This rifle will have a muzzle break.

If I lose my ammo while traveling I would like to have to option to buy more locally, this isn't a deal breaker though.


Any Help would be appreciated

 

[jhopkins]

I think that the 300wm or 7rm would be the best choice if you don't reload. I know that around here I would be able to find 7rm and 300wm at walmart or the hardware store.

 

[jonthomps]

You really can't go wrong with any of the calibers listed. I've hunted with a 300 wby for a couple of season and it put many animals down (deer and elk). My folks still live in CO and dad has dropped LOTS of elk and deer with a 7mm Rem Mag. He shoots a 300WM now, as do I. If you want to focus on shooting the heavy 30 cal bullets (200gr +) go with something in a long action. Jeff and his son (goes by Broz) both shoot 300WM rifles and he's taken lots of game with that cal too. If you're concentrating on a light weight rig I'd give a serious look at the GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM. It's a new short action wildcat developed by George and his crew; it's a beast. Proven elk killer at 800y. Good luck and post pictures of whatever you choose!

 

[LanceS4803]

Although I reload, I went with the 300WM due to ammo availability, pretty much worldwide.

 

[Flylow]

I think that the 300wm or 7rm would be the best choice if you don't reload. I know that around here I would be able to find 7rm and 300wm at walmart or the hardware store.

Thanks for the reply, I would be reloading all of the ammo unless of course I got in a pickle.

 

[rhildy77]

I have used the 300 win and the 300 wby. My preference is the 300 win I have heard great reviews of the 7wsm though as well.

 

[Flylow]

If you're concentrating on a light weight rig I'd give a serious look at the GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM. It's a new short action wildcat developed by George and his crew; it's a beast. Proven elk killer at 800y. Good luck and post pictures of whatever you choose!

You the the 6.5 SAUM would fair ok on Moose though. Only info I can find on it is people running up to 140 gr pills in it.

 

[jonthomps]

You the the 6.5 SAUM would fair ok on Moose though. Only info I can find on it is people running up to 140 gr pills in it.

Bullet placement is always important but I think it would be crucial on a moose with a 6.5. Maybe better stick with a 30 cal...

 

[softcock]

I have used the 300 win and the 300 wby. My preference is the 300 win I have heard great reviews of the 7wsm though as well.

-
me also . hunted elk with .300 wby. & really liked it but I own shoot & reload the 300WM now . 300 win mag. will do everything you want for n. american game, plus long range steel/paper w/ good barrel life also . & always find factory ammo on the shelf in about any town .

Only big Negative I had with the 300 Wby. was that in a light weight hunter, it is a Real Bad Body Punisher for the guy who is pulling the trigger . But it does perform if you can put up with it .
.

 

[thewileyone]

Since you are planning on having a muzzle break on it, I would definitely go with either the 7 RUM or 300 RUM. I shot my 300 RUM with a muzzle break just a couple of months after having shoulder surgery and had no issues due to recoil. I still shoot it off of a bench without a muzzle break and yes, after 5 rounds or so... you are not wanting to shoot it for a while but that is with most magnum rifles. I would say that with the muzzle break on, you could essentially shoot it all day if you wanted because there is very little felt recoil. I have shot a 7mm RUM and honestly believe that it had a little less recoil than my 300 RUM and the two weapons were set up with identically with the exception of optics and neither had a break. They are both hunting rifles not heavy bench rifles. The recoil pad makes a huge difference, we use the Pachmayr Decelerator pad and would recommend it or the Limb Saver. The 7mm STW would also do a great job for you. I have nothing against the 7mag or 300 wm, they are both great also but the RUM's carry a lot more energy at distance.

 

[BALLISTIC]

30-06, BTDT. If you want a magnum, for the sake of having a magnum, then sure any 7mm or 30 caliber magnum will work also.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Plenty of good options out there, so many in fact there isn't a need to worry one way or another. First thing; because someone else has one and likes it is not reason enough to get one yourself, after all, some dudes like a dick. Throw the "wierd" cartridges out because of availability, cost, and barrel life (i.e. anything RUM,STW,LAZ,etc.) Speaking strictly from your question, it sounds like you want something fairly common, not to expensive or taxing in the barrel life, therefore it would be logical to stick with something based on a '06,WSM,or WM case. Anything like a .280,30-06,300wsm,7wsm, or either a 7 or 300WM. all great choices for big game, and will do well on the ranges as well. Any one of them would put the drop on a moose, elk, or deer, there's differences in cost, recoil, barrel life, and components. So in the end its just a choice between a bunch of good choices. Any of the same cartridges shooting a 6.5 would also work, that is to say it can be done, but may not be ideal depending on the situation. If I were you, I'd go .280 in a long, or 300wsm in a short and be done.

 

[Graham]

Enough energy for ethically taking Moose and Elk at 800 yards? You won't be able to build a good all-around hunting rifle that will do that.

And if you try, you won't want to shoot it or even be able to shoot it often enough to become any good with it... Which is the real ethical problem with the criteria of the build that many here are suggesting.

Why does everyone want a magnum? Most people I see at the range with their magnum rifles haven't got a clue. Money, sure, but without skill. It's like watching a sixteen year-old with a 1000cc sport bike: They look real cool standing next to it. But they quickly become less cool when they try to do anything with it.

Magnum rifles are special purpose equipment. Period.

How about a non-magnum, like a 30-06. That should be good enough for all game in North America, 1000 yard shooting, and most African game animals as well.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Graham makes good points, and reminds me of another point I had wanted to mention; many of us have seen a moose soak up several good shots from a .338LM, so a magnum is not the end all to the question, as Graham explained. As well as the seemingly endless stream of turds at the range thinking that their RUM will somehow make them unstoppable. Truth of the matter is that one man with a good .308 or 30-06 could spank them at any given range, time, or condition.

 

[Graham]

I love stories about people who absolutely must hunt with a magnum caliber because it's the guaranteed ticket for humanely and ethically dispatching the intended game animal at the chosen distance.

Here's one of mine:

I once shot a deer at 125 yards with a 458 Win Mag. I had used a 510 grain soft point because factory ammo was the only ammo I had left. The shot was good: A lung shot, but it went clean through and the deer ran down a trail toward some thick brush.

The man leading the hunt, Mr. Cooper, heard the shot and caught up to me. He was 76 years old. He began stalking the deer and I followed. It didn't take long. Suddenly he stopped. I couldn't see what had stopped him. Then I saw, at the edge of the bush, the deer raise its head off the ground. Mr. Cooper snapped his rifle to his shoulder and fired.

It took me a while to find the entry hole. It was a small one, behind the right ear. I paced-off my steps back to where he had been standing: Sixty two yards.

Mr. Cooper carried a turn-of-last-century Winchester model 92 in 32-20. When I asked him how many rounds he had fired through it he said he didn't know: that it used to be his father's.

Standing next to Mr. Cooper that day I sure must have looked cool carrying that elephant rifle.

Because it wasn't about the gun.

 

[jakelly]

In my opinion the 6.5 SAUM is the best North American big game cartridge, although it lacks in available ammo. This cartridge is a true wonder that should be exalted, but it may not be your cup-o-tea.

PS much love to all the choices mentioned! No flames intended.

 

[coldboremiracle]

the best North American big game cartridge

Thems fightin words, and you shall be scorned for your sin.

 

[Flylow]

I love stories about people who absolutely must hunt with a magnum caliber because it's the guaranteed ticket for humanely and ethically dispatching the intended game animal at the chosen distance.

I appreciate every everyones comments and knowledge, I realize the calibers I have listed are not going to rip them in half, skin and cape them, pay for the taxidermy fees, and pack the animal out for me. I am a novice shooter no doubt and that is why I'm here. Would I take a 800 yard shot on a animal at the moment, negative. I would like to get to that point though... Anyone can lob bullets at an animal in my option but I want to give it a good death.

Just by hunting archery one can see how bullet placement will do the job, yet we have all taken poor shots. All the Elk i have taken have been with a 257 wby and had no issues, all of which were with in 500 yards. In respect to Graham I've witnessed my grandfather kill mules with a Marlin 25-35 open site lever action with no issues, he never second guessed his platform, nor did I. Still cherish that gun.

I guess I'm looking for the magic answer and its hard to nail down, 30 cal seems like the way to go in the long run according to most the stuff I read. I guess I'm leaning in the 300 wm/wsm direction but the wby still has me curious, I just don't understand why it is so dead minus the fact its an old caliber and has some kick.

Again thanks for the help

 

[coldboremiracle]

OP, there is nothing wrong with a 300wby, or an H&H, or a Norma. There is also nothing they will do that a 300wm wont do pretty much as well, for less $$.$$. Dont rule out the 7mm's, they are great, I sold my 300WSM to get a 7SAUM, and dont regret it at all.

 

[45.308]

Your first priority for a hunting pop gun is to place the bullet in the kill zone. A miss is a miss, you may get flesh but if the bullet does not hit the engine, the animal will walk. Even if you rip into the engine, some times the animal still walks meaning very animal and every shot is different, horse power, lack of or lots of does not matter to an animal. A 66' bullwinkle dead right there from a 7.08 and a 53" walk off for 150-200, stand and took another 338 to tip it over. Both ripped through the engine room but for some reason, big bull decided he was ready but smaller bull said, not ready yet. My experience is, hunters can shoot a lighter weight, smaller profile rifle in a less horse power cartridge the most accurate. Anemic 243 has tipped over its fair share of moose and caribou.

I want the lightest rig I can get or afford. I have to tote it long walks, high ascents and the less energy I burn so when it comes time to actuate the trigger, I can as accurate as possible because my heart is not trying to explode, heads not pounding my eyes blurry, bodies trying to slow its self down.

For a caliber, my experience says 338s are the most efficient at flying, driving and killing if you can shoot one accurate. My experience also says 284 flies better, drives deeper and wound channels better than 308. My 7mag wound channel always looked better or worse depending on perspective than my 300wby and I think it got to the animal better too. Others have different opinions.

If I was spending all this coin on a high dollar rig and reload, and want something off the path, I would go with a 300wsm necked up to 338 or 30.06 necked up to 338. If I wanted an off the shelf caliber with horsepower, a 7mag either wsm or rem. If I wanted an off the shelf meat getter 280 or 7.08. If I wanted to find ammo in every hunting camp or gun store over whole north America, 30.06.

The only rifle I shot that kicked harder than my light weight 340wby was the 378wby to include the 460wby, 458win and 375s. Never shot a 416. I can say, go to sight in day and see who is more deadly or more likely to kill, a 120lb female with her 7.08 slicing center or the 250lb long hair bearded macho shot gunning his 416.

Said it before and will again, I have family and friends who tipped over more bullwinkle or bou with a 22.250 than most every one on here has seen. Learn to be a hunter and learn to shoot, leave the caliber debate to those who debate.

Me, I would go down to my local gun shop and drop the coin on a Tikka T3 SS, save the coin for ammo to practice and hunting trips. Top it with a 2.5-8x class scope. Buts that is what I would do.

good luck

 

[XTREM HTR16]

7 Rem Mag ammo is pretty popular all over the place.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

I was going to point out, much in agreement with 45.308's post, that the caliber doesn't matter as much as the man. Or has been said many times, it's not the arrow, its the Indian/archer.

Since you seem to be a relatively new serious shooter, consider getting a 308. It will do everything you need, certainly to within 500 yards, ethically, and the barrel life is unmatched, getting over 8-10k rounds barrel life is not unheard of in 308. NONE of the other calibers you mentioned, are going to ever see half that, some will be plus MOA in 1k. Having shot out a couple 300 WM and 6mm/243 barrels, when it goes, it goes quick and badly. Would you want that to happen on a hunt? No, thought not.

Spend LOTS of money putting rounds downrange, cheap and effective with the 308. Until you are banging a 6-9" gong regularly at 500 yards, you aren't ready to shoot anything with hair at 800. I'm not talking about shooting it ten times and hitting it three times either. I know many many shooters, more than a few, and not many, without some formal training, can do that consistently. If you are not doing it pretty much on demand, any wind, any condition, then you need to work on getting closer or better, not what kind of whiz bang caliber you can chamber up. Not trying to be critical, I don't know you at all, just making the point, that 2-3k of practice rounds ( easy and cheap with 308) will pay much greater dividends than a "better" caliber.

Plus, once you get proficient with the 308, the skills transfer to the big boomers quite easily. If you make good wind calls with a 308, making that same call with a 338 is cake. There is nothing in North America, the 308 can't handle, at ethical ranges, which are different for every shooter. I just hate these LR hunting/shooting shows, they seem to focus on the equipment, more than the techniques, and are not completely truthful about how the shots are made sometimes. For guys without the prior knowledge, makes it seem as if " buy this rig, shoot this bullet, place crosshairs and collect critter". Yeah, not quite like that in real life.

If funds are the issue, the 308 makes even more sense. If you ever wear the 308 out, you can always rechamber to something slicker/faster, or buy another bolt, and convert to a WSM/SAUM. When I was buying Surgeon actions, I ordered both bolts at the same time, you could do that also with GAP.

You could almost take my comments on the 308, and say the same thing about 30.06, but it is a little tougher finding cheap good practice ammo for, but has more capability. And it's a long action, rather than a short.

Hope I didn't come over as too negative, not trying to be, but consider working on yourself, rather than the rifle. This board has a pile of folks, that it doesn't matter what rifle it is, they have that shot, or, just as importantly, know when they don't have it, and have to get closer.

 

[Flylow]

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[ldunnmobile]

308 win is my choice and my criteria is similar to yours, though I keep my game-killing range a little shorter, not because I can't go longer, but because if I can't stalk within 500 yards I might as well hang it up. But this is coming from a guy that HATES magnums, cause I've find 99.9999999999% there's nothing I can't do with 308 (or similar) in a smaller/easier/lighter/cheaper package. But I'm no expert.

 

[105amatt]

Pick a suitable caliber that you can become comfortable and proficient shooting. Great big nasty magnums sound cool, but they are not worth a darn if you can't shoot them. I don't own a ultra magnum, or a super ultra magnum. I do have a a 300 Winchester Magnum, that is what i would recommend. Doesn't matter if your are a fan of Jack O'Conner or Elmer Keith, you still have to put the shot where it needs to go. Because...its a terrible feeling to lose and animal.

 

[bigngreen]

Pick the bullet you want to use then pick the chambering to push it at the level you feel comfortable with for impact velocity at the range you intend to shoot.

 

[Rediculous]

.308win? you're only 100 or so fps off of a 30-06, and at range that isn't a game changer. You can take it to the range and shoot as far as you want, makes good, clean kills with the proper ammo (barnes tsx imo) and can take basically any game in NA within reasonable range. Just setting up a shot over 400 yards on an animal could pose more of a problem than getting within 300 yards. Things are always blocking your shot anyways, other animals, trees, hills, you name it.