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All new TRG
- Thread starter JL
- Start date
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I said the MSRP was $51,800 who would be surprised here? </div></div>
Anyone with brains hopefully
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.M14</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I said the MSRP was $51,800 who would be surprised here? </div></div>
Anyone with brains hopefully
Re: All new TRG
Extremely nice rifle, but 408 Cheytac would be better caliber, so it would be 300WM, 338LM & 408 Cheytac.
Quality is great for sure, but my guess about accuracy is 5 shots, 1/2 MOA from 500 metres. It is pretty difficult to build modular bolt action rifle with under 0.5 MOA/500m, especially with magnum calibers. But lets see this first
51800? I would be surprised - Sako factory is about 100 miles away where i live. I´ll bet that price will be about 6500;- euros or even more... probably 6.5-8.5 grands (in euros, that is ten-eleven in USD...) ?
Extremely nice rifle, but 408 Cheytac would be better caliber, so it would be 300WM, 338LM & 408 Cheytac.
Quality is great for sure, but my guess about accuracy is 5 shots, 1/2 MOA from 500 metres. It is pretty difficult to build modular bolt action rifle with under 0.5 MOA/500m, especially with magnum calibers. But lets see this first
51800? I would be surprised - Sako factory is about 100 miles away where i live. I´ll bet that price will be about 6500;- euros or even more... probably 6.5-8.5 grands (in euros, that is ten-eleven in USD...) ?
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did just notice that one picture. It's hard for me to tell what it is exactly.
Justin</div></div>
Is it just me, or does it look like the chamber area of the barrel has a square outer profile?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Massoud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did just notice that one picture. It's hard for me to tell what it is exactly.
Justin</div></div>
Is it just me, or does it look like the chamber area of the barrel has a square outer profile?
Re: All new TRG
I am usually one of the first that jumps on the tacticool bandwagon, but that looks ridiculous. I will keep my TRG how it is now: perfect.
I am usually one of the first that jumps on the tacticool bandwagon, but that looks ridiculous. I will keep my TRG how it is now: perfect.
Re: All new TRG
It looks squarish to me too. I'm curious as to what's going on there. Our contact there couldn't give specifics so we probably won't know until someone really gets their hands on one. We're trying to get one but haven't made any real progress.
Justin
It looks squarish to me too. I'm curious as to what's going on there. Our contact there couldn't give specifics so we probably won't know until someone really gets their hands on one. We're trying to get one but haven't made any real progress.
Justin
Re: All new TRG
If I get on to the bandwagon of "modern" skeleton design, I will buy two Tikka T3 in different calibers plus two Whiskey-3 stocks, then I have two nice sticks for about the same price
If I get on to the bandwagon of "modern" skeleton design, I will buy two Tikka T3 in different calibers plus two Whiskey-3 stocks, then I have two nice sticks for about the same price
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nl12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll buy one for AX money. </div></div>
Hell no I wouldn't. And I own and love both my TRG22 & 42. You can take a brand new 42, put it in an Ashbury chassis and still not pay AX money. If I'm paying AX money it better be associated with a loaded out AX.
The bottom line is that Sako is too proud of the ass end of their stock chassis system. Is it nice? Sure, but not almost $3K nice.
Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nl12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll buy one for AX money. </div></div>
Hell no I wouldn't. And I own and love both my TRG22 & 42. You can take a brand new 42, put it in an Ashbury chassis and still not pay AX money. If I'm paying AX money it better be associated with a loaded out AX.
The bottom line is that Sako is too proud of the ass end of their stock chassis system. Is it nice? Sure, but not almost $3K nice.
Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue.
Re: All new TRG
Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue. [/quote]
Maverick,
The pictured TRG above is the short forearm version and I believe the long forearm version looks about 2-3 inches longer.
I was wondering what the bolt throw is on the new TRG considering it doesnt look like 60 degree anymore like the AI or the other TRG's. Just a different handle perhaps. Maybe someone can chime in for me. Thanks
Steve
Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue. [/quote]
Maverick,
The pictured TRG above is the short forearm version and I believe the long forearm version looks about 2-3 inches longer.
I was wondering what the bolt throw is on the new TRG considering it doesnt look like 60 degree anymore like the AI or the other TRG's. Just a different handle perhaps. Maybe someone can chime in for me. Thanks
Steve
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im am 2 or even 4 minds on the latest craze of "modern" sniper rifles.
1. They are all too damn heavy. often designed by people who have never actually used such a rifle in anger, or actually been anywhere near shots being fired back at you.
2. All the multi quick adjustable bells and whistles are something between a gimmick and a luxury.
3.does one actually need a full length picatinny rail from rear of action to the end of the stock ?
4. many of these modern type's have so many sharp edges and bits sticking out that you end up with bruises and cuts that can actually reduce your effectiveness in a long term battlefield situation,they are simply uncomfortable to use constantly in a field situation not to mention having you caught up in your Ghillie suit or camo netting like a haddock in a fishing net.
There are reasons that the half dozen most popular and usable sniper rifles over the last 20 years where so successful. I just wonder if the progression has gone too far, as it seems to be being driven by what some conceive as being desirable, but this inst necessarily what the guys on the ground want and need.
Pete </div></div>
Bingo.
To many knobs and gizmos. I have 1 face, so why the hell would i need everything adjustable *ALL THE TIME*
additional shit to remember, more random bits on the stock, and more weight, all for the sake of modularity and tacticool.
I guess my mind is starting to work in reverse on me, because a M40A1 keeps sounding smarter and smarter every time I see the word "Innovation, or Tactical" when a new precision rifle product comes out.
</div></div>
These new rifles aren't adjustable everywhere to allow you to constantly adjust them. They're to allow a large group of people with varying anthropometry to fit the rifle. Can you imagine if every sniper needed a rifle that was fit specifically for them? You wouldn't be able to efficiently recycle that old rifle and re-issue it to someone else.
There's pros and cons to either method, but on a large scale, adjustability trumps custom fit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im am 2 or even 4 minds on the latest craze of "modern" sniper rifles.
1. They are all too damn heavy. often designed by people who have never actually used such a rifle in anger, or actually been anywhere near shots being fired back at you.
2. All the multi quick adjustable bells and whistles are something between a gimmick and a luxury.
3.does one actually need a full length picatinny rail from rear of action to the end of the stock ?
4. many of these modern type's have so many sharp edges and bits sticking out that you end up with bruises and cuts that can actually reduce your effectiveness in a long term battlefield situation,they are simply uncomfortable to use constantly in a field situation not to mention having you caught up in your Ghillie suit or camo netting like a haddock in a fishing net.
There are reasons that the half dozen most popular and usable sniper rifles over the last 20 years where so successful. I just wonder if the progression has gone too far, as it seems to be being driven by what some conceive as being desirable, but this inst necessarily what the guys on the ground want and need.
Pete </div></div>
Bingo.
To many knobs and gizmos. I have 1 face, so why the hell would i need everything adjustable *ALL THE TIME*
additional shit to remember, more random bits on the stock, and more weight, all for the sake of modularity and tacticool.
I guess my mind is starting to work in reverse on me, because a M40A1 keeps sounding smarter and smarter every time I see the word "Innovation, or Tactical" when a new precision rifle product comes out.
</div></div>
These new rifles aren't adjustable everywhere to allow you to constantly adjust them. They're to allow a large group of people with varying anthropometry to fit the rifle. Can you imagine if every sniper needed a rifle that was fit specifically for them? You wouldn't be able to efficiently recycle that old rifle and re-issue it to someone else.
There's pros and cons to either method, but on a large scale, adjustability trumps custom fit.
Re: All new TRG
The Beretta reps were demo'ing the rifle at the Fort Bragg sniper championships.
Let me preface by saying I own a TRG-42. I have an emotional affinity to it because it was my first .338.
The new rifle is their PSR entry. It will have three forearm lengths. It comes with wrenches in an on-board compartment in the stock. Currently you need a spanner to change barrels but they say the production bolt handle will serve as the spanner.
All current Mauser-style bolt actions are starting to look like each other as form starts to follow function (the MSR, AX, Barrett, SAKO, FN, etc.). Whatever your opinion of the AR-style platform it has shown the viability of modular interchangeability on a coaxial rail.
The Beretta reps were demo'ing the rifle at the Fort Bragg sniper championships.
Let me preface by saying I own a TRG-42. I have an emotional affinity to it because it was my first .338.
The new rifle is their PSR entry. It will have three forearm lengths. It comes with wrenches in an on-board compartment in the stock. Currently you need a spanner to change barrels but they say the production bolt handle will serve as the spanner.
All current Mauser-style bolt actions are starting to look like each other as form starts to follow function (the MSR, AX, Barrett, SAKO, FN, etc.). Whatever your opinion of the AR-style platform it has shown the viability of modular interchangeability on a coaxial rail.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lionsden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maverick,
The pictured TRG above is the short forearm version and I believe the long forearm version looks about 2-3 inches longer.
I was wondering what the bolt throw is on the new TRG considering it doesnt look like 60 degree anymore like the AI or the other TRG's. Just a different handle perhaps. Maybe someone can chime in for me. Thanks
Steve </div></div>
Thanks for the heads up on the longer forearm tube.
Bottom line is this shouldn't be priced above $6.5K, but with the SAKO folder and their pricing I know that will still be too low by about $2K+.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lionsden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also the front tube for rails is too short by about 2-3" from my eyeball in the picture. Yeah, I get the save weight, but its a .338 system...keep the little bit of weight on it and reduce the felt recoil into the shooter to reduce mental and physical fatigue. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maverick,
The pictured TRG above is the short forearm version and I believe the long forearm version looks about 2-3 inches longer.
I was wondering what the bolt throw is on the new TRG considering it doesnt look like 60 degree anymore like the AI or the other TRG's. Just a different handle perhaps. Maybe someone can chime in for me. Thanks
Steve </div></div>
Thanks for the heads up on the longer forearm tube.
Bottom line is this shouldn't be priced above $6.5K, but with the SAKO folder and their pricing I know that will still be too low by about $2K+.
Re: All new TRG
Bottom line is this shouldn't be priced above $6.5K, but with the SAKO folder and their pricing I know that will still be too low by about $2K+. [/quote]
I agree 110%, I know some day I will have a TRG but unless I can get a folder under $4k Ill be getting a traditional stock. I dont think I will be too disappointed with that. It just wont be as tacticool!
Steve
Bottom line is this shouldn't be priced above $6.5K, but with the SAKO folder and their pricing I know that will still be too low by about $2K+. [/quote]
I agree 110%, I know some day I will have a TRG but unless I can get a folder under $4k Ill be getting a traditional stock. I dont think I will be too disappointed with that. It just wont be as tacticool!
Steve
Re: All new TRG
Yeah yeah yeah, the rifle looks nice and tactical, blah blah. But isn't it obvious that this is simply a ploy to phase out and double the price of an already perfectly functional rifle (I am talking about the fixed stock version obviously)? I guess Sako got tired of watching people paying 3x the price for an AI. I'll stick with my sub $3k TRG while you guys trip over each other taking out home equity loans to shell out 6k+ for a rifle that adds no value other than some useless picatinny rails. If I had expendable income right now, I would buy me another TRG, as there is no better value for a 338 out there.
Yeah yeah yeah, the rifle looks nice and tactical, blah blah. But isn't it obvious that this is simply a ploy to phase out and double the price of an already perfectly functional rifle (I am talking about the fixed stock version obviously)? I guess Sako got tired of watching people paying 3x the price for an AI. I'll stick with my sub $3k TRG while you guys trip over each other taking out home equity loans to shell out 6k+ for a rifle that adds no value other than some useless picatinny rails. If I had expendable income right now, I would buy me another TRG, as there is no better value for a 338 out there.
Re: All new TRG
That New TRG looks like a modified Tikka Action and not a Sako TRG action. It also looks like it is a 70 degree bolt throw also. That is a good idea on the Suppressor cover having the Velcro bit on top to secure the mirage band, I was thinking of doing that to mine.
That New TRG looks like a modified Tikka Action and not a Sako TRG action. It also looks like it is a 70 degree bolt throw also. That is a good idea on the Suppressor cover having the Velcro bit on top to secure the mirage band, I was thinking of doing that to mine.
Re: All new TRG
Thought I'd share my first experience testing the Sako TRG M10 here on Sniper's Hide. Tom Beckstrand and I were given the opportunity to be the first Americans to test two examples on Tuesday, January 17th at the Clark County Range in Nevada. We were joined by three foreign SF snipers (whose country recently selected it for issue), two (or three) Sako engineers/demonstrators from Finland that work on the project, and a couple of Beretta USA representatives. Tom and I will provide readers of the next SNIPER magazine and Combat Arms magazine with a full review in the next month or two. I'm in the airport at the moment, all geared up for my return to the Nevada desert tomorrow to complete this evaluation. We're supposed shoot out to 1,000 yards and beyond if time/ammo permits. Last Tuesday, we shot it for groups at 100 and 200 yards for the baseline numbers. I had one 5-shot group that I have to scan using .338 that measured .46 inches at 100 yards (that was the "best" group of the evening). It averages in the .56-.70 inch group I calculated after pulling everyone's target. Surprisingly, I measured slightly less accuracy with the .308 at .6-.8.(depending on shooter). At 200 yards, I finished a box of 300-grain .338 Lapua-brand ammo with a 4-shot .45 inch group. It looks like a single hole with ears. I'm having this target scanned for publication. We were allowed to test the .308 (with 168 Lapua) and .338 barrels, but we didn't have ammunition available for .300. We did shoot the .338 with and without an AAC suppressor. The suppressor was heavily used and threads were worn. I was told it was a 2-year-old can. The adapter on the rifle was new, but we found a shift in impact to the right about 3-inches when using the suppressor.
I had to get back to the office on Thursday, but I'm returning tonight with my own ammunition so there will be no excuses to evaluate this entire platform tomorrow. I'll be bringing a photographer (Alfredo Rico) with me to shoot the entire experience and every detail. Might even get some video out of this.
With that said, I'm very interested in your questions that you would be interested in having the Finn engineers or Beretta reps answer and suggestions as to what photo angles or details your would like to see for your own analysis.
Thank you for your in advance for your input,
Regards,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division
InterMedia Outdoors
Thought I'd share my first experience testing the Sako TRG M10 here on Sniper's Hide. Tom Beckstrand and I were given the opportunity to be the first Americans to test two examples on Tuesday, January 17th at the Clark County Range in Nevada. We were joined by three foreign SF snipers (whose country recently selected it for issue), two (or three) Sako engineers/demonstrators from Finland that work on the project, and a couple of Beretta USA representatives. Tom and I will provide readers of the next SNIPER magazine and Combat Arms magazine with a full review in the next month or two. I'm in the airport at the moment, all geared up for my return to the Nevada desert tomorrow to complete this evaluation. We're supposed shoot out to 1,000 yards and beyond if time/ammo permits. Last Tuesday, we shot it for groups at 100 and 200 yards for the baseline numbers. I had one 5-shot group that I have to scan using .338 that measured .46 inches at 100 yards (that was the "best" group of the evening). It averages in the .56-.70 inch group I calculated after pulling everyone's target. Surprisingly, I measured slightly less accuracy with the .308 at .6-.8.(depending on shooter). At 200 yards, I finished a box of 300-grain .338 Lapua-brand ammo with a 4-shot .45 inch group. It looks like a single hole with ears. I'm having this target scanned for publication. We were allowed to test the .308 (with 168 Lapua) and .338 barrels, but we didn't have ammunition available for .300. We did shoot the .338 with and without an AAC suppressor. The suppressor was heavily used and threads were worn. I was told it was a 2-year-old can. The adapter on the rifle was new, but we found a shift in impact to the right about 3-inches when using the suppressor.
I had to get back to the office on Thursday, but I'm returning tonight with my own ammunition so there will be no excuses to evaluate this entire platform tomorrow. I'll be bringing a photographer (Alfredo Rico) with me to shoot the entire experience and every detail. Might even get some video out of this.
With that said, I'm very interested in your questions that you would be interested in having the Finn engineers or Beretta reps answer and suggestions as to what photo angles or details your would like to see for your own analysis.
Thank you for your in advance for your input,
Regards,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division
InterMedia Outdoors
Re: All new TRG
Thanks for the great info. Looking forward to learning more. Wouldn't have guessed the .338 would outperform the .308 that close in by that much. Probably the individual gun/ammo combinations. Awesome to hear it on the Hide 1st.
Thanks for the great info. Looking forward to learning more. Wouldn't have guessed the .338 would outperform the .308 that close in by that much. Probably the individual gun/ammo combinations. Awesome to hear it on the Hide 1st.
Re: All new TRG
Interesting tests and thanks. I've been watching the introduction of the new TRG with interest.
I currently shoot a TRG folder as a duty rifle and have several years and several K rounds experience with them, including out to 800 at Blackwater and a lot of shorter range work, more typical of LE engagements.
The accuracy numbers on the new TRG are interesting, because they don't sound great compared to the last (current?) gen. They are certainly good, but the current generation of TRG's offers performance as good as (or better than) the best custom rifles, right out of the box. And the numbers you were talking about don't sound as good as the current generation of TRG's...
I am wondering if the enhancements to the new generation of TRG are less about accuracy and more about ergonomics, materials, adaptability to accessories, etc.? All those are fine, but if there was a reduction in accuracy, it's all moot.
On one hand, I like the new design and would love to 'upgrade' to one if the budget allows. But it may be more about having the latest thing about than getting a real enhancement to performance. And I'm all about accuracy.
Very jealous of your getting your hands on one. And Clark County range is a fine place to test it out! Was the 1000 yd test out in Pahrump? And how did it do?
As far as questions I'd like to see answered in an article... Old TRG vs. New TRG. Not just for accuracy, but for all the enhancements.
Keep us in the loop and I look forward to your review.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Interesting tests and thanks. I've been watching the introduction of the new TRG with interest.
I currently shoot a TRG folder as a duty rifle and have several years and several K rounds experience with them, including out to 800 at Blackwater and a lot of shorter range work, more typical of LE engagements.
The accuracy numbers on the new TRG are interesting, because they don't sound great compared to the last (current?) gen. They are certainly good, but the current generation of TRG's offers performance as good as (or better than) the best custom rifles, right out of the box. And the numbers you were talking about don't sound as good as the current generation of TRG's...
I am wondering if the enhancements to the new generation of TRG are less about accuracy and more about ergonomics, materials, adaptability to accessories, etc.? All those are fine, but if there was a reduction in accuracy, it's all moot.
On one hand, I like the new design and would love to 'upgrade' to one if the budget allows. But it may be more about having the latest thing about than getting a real enhancement to performance. And I'm all about accuracy.
Very jealous of your getting your hands on one. And Clark County range is a fine place to test it out! Was the 1000 yd test out in Pahrump? And how did it do?
As far as questions I'd like to see answered in an article... Old TRG vs. New TRG. Not just for accuracy, but for all the enhancements.
Keep us in the loop and I look forward to your review.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Re: All new TRG
One important consideration when considering old TRG vs new TRG M10 (as it was briefed to me) was that the TRG M10 was specifically configured to meet eligibility requirements for the PSR solicitation and its amendments. As a result from those specs, engineers had to figure out how to evolve the TRG to address such things like the Multi-Caliber requirement. I need to get my nomenclature tightened up tomorrow before I just start attempting to describe it, but the caliber swap is simple and produced repeatable results.
The PSR solicitation requires a left handed version, so Sako has developed three variants of the M10. One has the stock folding to the right, one to the left, and another with a fixed stock. They all utilize the same spring-loaded adjustment features. For example, a button on the stock will pop out the buttstock, and another will pop up the cheek piece. Hold in the buttons, and you can adjust the settings while in position. Release the buttons and each adjustment locks into place.
The rifle features an interesting on-board tool kit. For the most part, the user can disassemble almost every major component of the TRG M10. There is a reversible/adjustable hand stop/hook support attached to the rail under the forend that contains three Torx and spanner wrenches, for example. Further, the bolt can be removed and used to tighten the barrel screws (the bolt body is held in the hand for leverage). One tool is located at the ball of the bolt knob (if that makes sense). Pretty clever actually.
The trigger on the TRG M10 has been redesigned, something that I was told will be used on TRG 22/42s going forward. This one has only one adjusting screw. However, sear engagement can't be adjusted with one of the on-board tools. This was intentional because they don't feel the sear engagement should be adjusted in the field.
The safety lever on the TRG M10 has been redesigned to addressed a common criticism of the TRG series in that many users don't like that they have to put a finger inside the trigger guard to engage the safety. It's still in the traditional TRG position, but it's wider so that it can be flipped forward or back on the outside of the trigger guard.
On the TRG M10, ammunition within the rifle can now be removed without having to take the rifle off of the "Safe" position.
Also interesting is that the bolt release lever can be flipped to shorten/lengthen bolt thrown depending on choice of caliber. When going from a .338 to a .308 for example, you don't need such a long bolt throw, so by flipping the bolt release lever 180 degrees, you can reduce the distance of travel when cycling ammunition. Another clever design treatment.
I could go on and on, but I'll save a little for another post here on SH. There are things like the new wire management system integrated into the receiver design, new helical screws that attach any configuration of rails to the forend, 60-degree bolt angle, and the fact that Sako will manufacture barrels as short as 14 inches for the .308 and as long as 27 1/8-inches for the .338. The bolt remains traditional TRG with dual ejectors for every caliber, however the extractor on the TRG M10 is wider than the older TRG lines. There are four-inches of overall length within the magazines, which means that the .338 will accept 325-grain ammunition (I did not have 325-gr. ammunition to verify this).
More information to come.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
One important consideration when considering old TRG vs new TRG M10 (as it was briefed to me) was that the TRG M10 was specifically configured to meet eligibility requirements for the PSR solicitation and its amendments. As a result from those specs, engineers had to figure out how to evolve the TRG to address such things like the Multi-Caliber requirement. I need to get my nomenclature tightened up tomorrow before I just start attempting to describe it, but the caliber swap is simple and produced repeatable results.
The PSR solicitation requires a left handed version, so Sako has developed three variants of the M10. One has the stock folding to the right, one to the left, and another with a fixed stock. They all utilize the same spring-loaded adjustment features. For example, a button on the stock will pop out the buttstock, and another will pop up the cheek piece. Hold in the buttons, and you can adjust the settings while in position. Release the buttons and each adjustment locks into place.
The rifle features an interesting on-board tool kit. For the most part, the user can disassemble almost every major component of the TRG M10. There is a reversible/adjustable hand stop/hook support attached to the rail under the forend that contains three Torx and spanner wrenches, for example. Further, the bolt can be removed and used to tighten the barrel screws (the bolt body is held in the hand for leverage). One tool is located at the ball of the bolt knob (if that makes sense). Pretty clever actually.
The trigger on the TRG M10 has been redesigned, something that I was told will be used on TRG 22/42s going forward. This one has only one adjusting screw. However, sear engagement can't be adjusted with one of the on-board tools. This was intentional because they don't feel the sear engagement should be adjusted in the field.
The safety lever on the TRG M10 has been redesigned to addressed a common criticism of the TRG series in that many users don't like that they have to put a finger inside the trigger guard to engage the safety. It's still in the traditional TRG position, but it's wider so that it can be flipped forward or back on the outside of the trigger guard.
On the TRG M10, ammunition within the rifle can now be removed without having to take the rifle off of the "Safe" position.
Also interesting is that the bolt release lever can be flipped to shorten/lengthen bolt thrown depending on choice of caliber. When going from a .338 to a .308 for example, you don't need such a long bolt throw, so by flipping the bolt release lever 180 degrees, you can reduce the distance of travel when cycling ammunition. Another clever design treatment.
I could go on and on, but I'll save a little for another post here on SH. There are things like the new wire management system integrated into the receiver design, new helical screws that attach any configuration of rails to the forend, 60-degree bolt angle, and the fact that Sako will manufacture barrels as short as 14 inches for the .308 and as long as 27 1/8-inches for the .338. The bolt remains traditional TRG with dual ejectors for every caliber, however the extractor on the TRG M10 is wider than the older TRG lines. There are four-inches of overall length within the magazines, which means that the .338 will accept 325-grain ammunition (I did not have 325-gr. ammunition to verify this).
More information to come.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Very jealous of your getting your hands on one. And Clark County range is a fine place to test it out! Was the 1000 yd test out in Pahrump? And how did it do?"
Cheers,
Sirhr</div></div>
Hey Sirhr,
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Last Tuesday, we just tested it out to 200 yards. Tomorrow (Saturday) we're traveling to a different range here in Nevada to test it out to 1000. I'll follow up with an update afterwards.
Best,
Eric
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sirhrmechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Very jealous of your getting your hands on one. And Clark County range is a fine place to test it out! Was the 1000 yd test out in Pahrump? And how did it do?"
Cheers,
Sirhr</div></div>
Hey Sirhr,
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Last Tuesday, we just tested it out to 200 yards. Tomorrow (Saturday) we're traveling to a different range here in Nevada to test it out to 1000. I'll follow up with an update afterwards.
Best,
Eric
Re: All new TRG
Is the new M10 338 barrel still a 1 x 10 twist, or have they gone faster, like 1 x 9.3?
Is the new M10 338 barrel still a 1 x 10 twist, or have they gone faster, like 1 x 9.3?
Re: All new TRG
Regarding the accuracy of the platform, last year I was able to discuss the m10 with a sako engineering and asking regarding the accuracy of the m10 vs the trg-22 and he told me that they have an indoor range in the facility of 100 meters and he was able to produce a 5 shot group of only 7mm.
Take into account that indoor shooting there is no wind, however he was excited telling me this, because it was his best group with any platform using factory ammo.
Regarding the accuracy of the platform, last year I was able to discuss the m10 with a sako engineering and asking regarding the accuracy of the m10 vs the trg-22 and he told me that they have an indoor range in the facility of 100 meters and he was able to produce a 5 shot group of only 7mm.
Take into account that indoor shooting there is no wind, however he was excited telling me this, because it was his best group with any platform using factory ammo.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpine 338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the new M10 338 barrel still a 1 x 10 twist, or have they gone faster, like 1 x 9.3?</div></div>
Hey Alpine 338,
I learned today that the new TRG M10 338 barrel carries a 1:10 twist, while the 308 and 300 Win Mag barrels utilize a 1:11 twist.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alpine 338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the new M10 338 barrel still a 1 x 10 twist, or have they gone faster, like 1 x 9.3?</div></div>
Hey Alpine 338,
I learned today that the new TRG M10 338 barrel carries a 1:10 twist, while the 308 and 300 Win Mag barrels utilize a 1:11 twist.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
Re: All new TRG
Mother nature provided a dust test in the form of wicked 30-50 mph winds kicking up a thick sandstorm that lasted for most of the day. We were shooting at Boulder City today, and I mistakenly thought we would be shooting at 1,000 yards. The RSO indicated that our steel targets were positioned at 300, 400, 550, 600, 800, 980. More of this report and answers to questions about the M10 to follow shortly.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
Mother nature provided a dust test in the form of wicked 30-50 mph winds kicking up a thick sandstorm that lasted for most of the day. We were shooting at Boulder City today, and I mistakenly thought we would be shooting at 1,000 yards. The RSO indicated that our steel targets were positioned at 300, 400, 550, 600, 800, 980. More of this report and answers to questions about the M10 to follow shortly.
Best,
Eric
Eric R. Poole, Editor
SIP Division, InterMedia Outdoors
Re: All new TRG
If anyone wants the full factory .PDF file on the M10,...fire me a PM with email address.
If anyone wants the full factory .PDF file on the M10,...fire me a PM with email address.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jp67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks </div></div>
Sent,...check ur mail.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jp67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks </div></div>
Sent,...check ur mail.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone wants the full factory .PDF file on the M10,...fire me a PM with email address.</div></div>
Please send it to me too.
PM sent.
Thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If anyone wants the full factory .PDF file on the M10,...fire me a PM with email address.</div></div>
Please send it to me too.
PM sent.
Thanks.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VicV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any updates?
Thanks </div></div>
The M10 was at the civilian media day at SHOT along with the AIX PSR, AI said it got so much attention they're gauging market interest, seems Sako followed suit. I don't think anyone has made an official announcement yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VicV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any updates?
Thanks </div></div>
The M10 was at the civilian media day at SHOT along with the AIX PSR, AI said it got so much attention they're gauging market interest, seems Sako followed suit. I don't think anyone has made an official announcement yet.
Re: All new TRG
Got some time behind the m 10 and I could not find anything to complain about. Was told it will definitely be available to civi this year but not given a price point.
Got some time behind the m 10 and I could not find anything to complain about. Was told it will definitely be available to civi this year but not given a price point.
Re: All new TRG
John, was the action and the trigger (mostly the trigger) the same as the TRG22/42? Any thought if they were different please.
John, was the action and the trigger (mostly the trigger) the same as the TRG22/42? Any thought if they were different please.
Re: All new TRG
All catalog etc. information about M10:
http://www.sako.fi/defencele.php
Also new Sako iPhone software:
http://itunes.apple.com/app/sako-mobile-ballistics/id563153541?mt=8
All catalog etc. information about M10:
http://www.sako.fi/defencele.php
Also new Sako iPhone software:
http://itunes.apple.com/app/sako-mobile-ballistics/id563153541?mt=8
Re: All new TRG
Has anybody heard of availability timeline for these into the civilian market? Buddy is a Beretta USA rep and he was told "Not before 2015, if ever." Just wondering if anybody can confirm.
Has anybody heard of availability timeline for these into the civilian market? Buddy is a Beretta USA rep and he was told "Not before 2015, if ever." Just wondering if anybody can confirm.
Re: All new TRG
beretta usa has their head up their asses. I was looking forward to this rifle last year....but they said "Not for sale to civilians" SAKO needs to part ways with beretta, they are really fucking their market up...and no longer importing the trg 42 in 300 win mag to the usa? WTF BERETTA YOU GUYS SUCK! Really turned me off to sako products.
beretta usa has their head up their asses. I was looking forward to this rifle last year....but they said "Not for sale to civilians" SAKO needs to part ways with beretta, they are really fucking their market up...and no longer importing the trg 42 in 300 win mag to the usa? WTF BERETTA YOU GUYS SUCK! Really turned me off to sako products.
Re: All new TRG
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody heard of availability timeline for these into the civilian market? Buddy is a Beretta USA rep and he was told "Not before 2015, if ever." Just wondering if anybody can confirm. </div></div>
Did he give a reason why? Is it because they have production problems trying to fill military contracts (which I understand)? Or is it just a marketing decision and want to look tacticool (which I do not understand)? I quess I dont understand some companies decisions to pass up tons of money in the civilian market.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody heard of availability timeline for these into the civilian market? Buddy is a Beretta USA rep and he was told "Not before 2015, if ever." Just wondering if anybody can confirm. </div></div>
Did he give a reason why? Is it because they have production problems trying to fill military contracts (which I understand)? Or is it just a marketing decision and want to look tacticool (which I do not understand)? I quess I dont understand some companies decisions to pass up tons of money in the civilian market.
