Getting a setup together for my 8 year old to learn on. Looking for something 22 cal (so I can use my AEM5) that is .308 bolt face but has similar characteristics to .223 like low recoil and isn’t an absolute barrel burner. Factory ammo would be nice since I don’t currently reload (I know, this is the reloading forum but figure this is the best place to ask). Does anything like that exist?
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Alternative to .223?
- Thread starter 03CR
- Start date
22 creedmoor would be the only thing i can think of, but not sure if there is factory ammo for that
22 cal
308 bolt face
factory ammo
barrel burner though from what i’ve heard
22 cal
308 bolt face
factory ammo
barrel burner though from what i’ve heard
Maybe not...
Just got done listening to one of the Hornady podcasts (yeah, those) with George from GAP and Tom from Vapor Trail, ie the people behind the 6GT. Sounds like the 6GT might an option in a gas gun (according to George)... and Hornady is going to be making factory ammo for it.
You would need a .455 bolt face (any gunsmith worth his salt could bushing the bolt face from .478” to .455”), but I’d go 6 ARC. Almost the same recoil, but way more KE down range, and ability to take game farther.
Good news is anything shooting 77-85gr bullets is decent on recoil. But don't kid yourselfd that 77 or 80 or 85grain bullet at 2950 or 3000 fps 223 cal is going to be easy on the barrel.
Given that 22br is smallest 308 boltface has 30 grains of powder vs 24 ina 223, this is the start of the slipperly slope of barrel life...22gt, 22-250, 22-creed etc are all worse...more powder in same small diameter throat.
22valk and 22ARC are lower capacity cases but wrong boltface diameter if you need 308.
I think buying a new bolt and shooting .223 will be easier and cheaper in the long run that any of your other options with a .308 bolt face.
I would read some info on the 22-250…. Factory loads…easy to handle…..we all have a general idea,,, but take all this info,,, that is presented here… and build you-a” what will work for me book.” with short pages… see what rifle prices in recommended calibers look like … price ammo and availability….. ( very important) , easy to carry and maintain….. barrel burners in my opinion are few and far between with factory ammo… … your mileage may vary.. Enjoy the journey…..
Here's the factory reloading data from Hornday. Will be interesting to see what they pick for factory ammo.
There's no way 22CM isn't going to eat throats for breakfast with that much powder (up to 48gr in 80gr bullet), is my first thought. But maybe they pick a minium charge load in a cooler burning powder? You can still get 3000 fps with only 40gr of H1000 for example?
Intersting times...I guess we will see in a couple months !
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Oh it'll absolutely be a barrel/throat burner either way. I also think one of the reason they pick a 8tw in their saami submission was to avoid these 80gr from blowing up out of a 7tw after a couple hundred rounds.
My idea to mitigate some of it is to use N555 which is slower burning than H4350 and keep it under 2900 fps for the 88gr and under 3000 for the 80gr for a short barrel. No sure yet how fast the factory ammo will be but I suppose it'll be not super hot rodded because they have to load it for gas gun pressures.
Seems like 40.5gr of N555 will give you almost a full case with the 80gr and give you adequate speed and 99% burn out of a 18in tube according to QuickLoad. Sounds like the perfect match for me but I certainly wouldn't compete PRS with that cartridge due to barrel life and carbon ring in a high volume environment.
I also hope to see factory Barnes 22 creedmoor 77 LRX which would make it very convenient for your typical deer hunter. I've seen what the LRX bullet does at short range on game vs a match bullet and while both killed shit dead right there, there was way less meat damage and pieces of lead with the LRX.
For the wife and kids, and the occasional hunt, it won't be a high volume shooter so if I can get 3/4 moa and stretch to 1500 rounds then I'll be satisfied.
There probably aren't any 22cal cartridges with a .473 case head that aren't barrel burners. It's the antithesis of barrel life.
I'd be solidly in the buy a bolt and run .223 and 5.56 camp. Economical, easy to shoot, cheap, plenty of effective target range, great barrel life, versatile... on and on. Works great on deer with proper bullet inside 200 yards.
I love my 5.56 and 223 wylde bolt guns. They probably get shot most and are plenty effective on steel to 600 yards. 800 is ok too, but my 75 amax is getting awful small that far out for me. It does make you learn wind : ) though.
If you can get one of those lee hand loading presses, the one that doesn't use a bench, a set of lee dies and electronic scale you can be loading your own ammo in the space of a shoebox for probbaly about 100 bucks less components if you deal hunt.... Add in 90 bucks for 1000 primers, .25 cents per brass or less, .30 cents or less per bullet, and a lb of powder for 55 bucks. Bam you're golden and he's learning like a boss.
Ive loaded plenty of good ammo on that little hand press when i couldnt have a bench. Itll work just fine!
^ reloading opens up the world to you For stuff like this. Run a 308 win and H4985 powder and a light 308 bullet will give much reduced recoil but still plenty of oomph.... a light bullet and unique powder or similar will recoil like a .223 or lighter and be crazy economical. Hodgdon has reduced load data now too you can check out. ROOM TO GROW score is off the charts here. This would be my pick if 5.56 is off the table.
I imagine you could get the rifle set up as a pistol caliber. Fun, but man what a pain in The ass and it's a still a pistol cal... 22 creed or 22 250 are possible etc, but they are fucking harsh at muzzle, eat barrels etc.
I love my 5.56 and 223 wylde bolt guns. They probably get shot most and are plenty effective on steel to 600 yards. 800 is ok too, but my 75 amax is getting awful small that far out for me. It does make you learn wind : ) though.
If you can get one of those lee hand loading presses, the one that doesn't use a bench, a set of lee dies and electronic scale you can be loading your own ammo in the space of a shoebox for probbaly about 100 bucks less components if you deal hunt.... Add in 90 bucks for 1000 primers, .25 cents per brass or less, .30 cents or less per bullet, and a lb of powder for 55 bucks. Bam you're golden and he's learning like a boss.
Ive loaded plenty of good ammo on that little hand press when i couldnt have a bench. Itll work just fine!
^ reloading opens up the world to you For stuff like this. Run a 308 win and H4985 powder and a light 308 bullet will give much reduced recoil but still plenty of oomph.... a light bullet and unique powder or similar will recoil like a .223 or lighter and be crazy economical. Hodgdon has reduced load data now too you can check out. ROOM TO GROW score is off the charts here. This would be my pick if 5.56 is off the table.
I imagine you could get the rifle set up as a pistol caliber. Fun, but man what a pain in The ass and it's a still a pistol cal... 22 creed or 22 250 are possible etc, but they are fucking harsh at muzzle, eat barrels etc.
Love my 22GT. Super soft recoil. There are places that make custom ammunition too. Copper Creek comes to mind.
I'm in the new bolt category.
If you do reload, 223 Ackley Improved has not (IMH experience) been a "barrel burner".
I'm launching 80 GR VLD's at 2750 fps with fantastic results down range. Due to the weight of the rifle (heavy barrel, supressor, HS M24 adjustable stock), there is almost zero recoil. It's on par with my Bergara 22LR as far as felt recoil. Good to 850 yards verified and I am sure I can get the actual DOPE even farther but have not tried. There are guys here that do.
Otherwise, the WYLDE chambering would be my preference.
Lots of guys get great accuracy from factory loads and I am not trying to throw any shade there but I have been able to shrink the cone of precision (or is it accuracy) in every rifle by tuning the load to the rifle. There are also the various barrel tuners but I have exactly zero experience there.
If you do reload, 223 Ackley Improved has not (IMH experience) been a "barrel burner".
I'm launching 80 GR VLD's at 2750 fps with fantastic results down range. Due to the weight of the rifle (heavy barrel, supressor, HS M24 adjustable stock), there is almost zero recoil. It's on par with my Bergara 22LR as far as felt recoil. Good to 850 yards verified and I am sure I can get the actual DOPE even farther but have not tried. There are guys here that do.
Otherwise, the WYLDE chambering would be my preference.
Lots of guys get great accuracy from factory loads and I am not trying to throw any shade there but I have been able to shrink the cone of precision (or is it accuracy) in every rifle by tuning the load to the rifle. There are also the various barrel tuners but I have exactly zero experience there.
Trying to pound a square peg into a round hole
Is Pennywise and pound foolish
I would go back to your original goals and reevaluate them
Is Pennywise and pound foolish
I would go back to your original goals and reevaluate them
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I and several other others routinely get 2950 ft./s in a standard 223 Remington using AR – COMP and a 75 grain ELD – M. RL 15 will get you there also.
This bolt gun has a 16" barrel.
I have gotten way more velocity without pressure signs. If I remember, I stopped adding powder at around 3100 fps.
So, quite a lot faster but with less accuracy. Fast is fun but not at the expense of accuracy.
Just the savings in brass and ammo costs would pay for a 223 bolt vs anything with any bolt face.
I would 5ths a 223 bolt and just go straight .223. If you want to keep it simple a .223 Wylde chamber does great with 75/77gr bullets and you can go long barrel for 2900fps + velocity or short barrel decent velocity for plinking/ hunting. I have a 26" barrel that started as a Wylde chamber and I throated it out to be able to seat 80gr bullets at 2.5" OAL. I'm doing 2820 with an 80gr SMK and 2750 with a 85.5 Hybrid.
If you just want to keep the original bolt, 22GT is probably the simplest, smallest .224 you're going to fit on a 308 bolt face. Super forgiving to load for. Still a fast bastard tho.
If you just want to keep the original bolt, 22GT is probably the simplest, smallest .224 you're going to fit on a 308 bolt face. Super forgiving to load for. Still a fast bastard tho.
Depends who made it and how much runout the barrel and mount have. I think OPS Inc used .260 bores, the brakes are tighter. YHM uses a .270'ish bore, SF is even larger. The hotter you get the bore the more likely you'll get a baffle strike. Generally you need minimum .040" clearance, and that is considered really tight.
I can tell you with certainty .308 doesn't fit through a 6.5 brake. It gets worse when you put a .30 silencer on the 6.5 brake with the 308 bullets.
