Alternatives to Criterion?

Wilson Combat has been good for me in 6.8 SPC and 5.56 and they aren't too expensive. I have a fluted 16" intermediate gas barrel that is plenty accurate with my 55gr Hornady FMJ reloads. I haven't shot it for groups but just might the next time I'm out.
 
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Have you looked at Satern (the cut rifled barrels, not their Liberty barrel line)? Not sure what their wait times look like right now, but they make very nice barrels. I currently have one of their 18" 6.5 Grendel barrels and every time I take it out I am impressed. It's sub-moa with most decent ammo, and pretty much 1/2 moa with loads it likes. I'm a decent shot (not great) and I have printed a few bug hole 3 shot groups... then I mess them up by pulling a shot.
 
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I’m shooting a tactical kinetics 18 rifle gas length 1-8 for 3 gun it’s a solid 1.5 with hand loaded Berrys 55 gr and right at 1 inch with 75 grain Hornady 75 gr bt I’m making good hits out to 700 on the clock and it’s right with my white oak spr and Wilson barrel
 
has anyone tried alpha shooting sports barrels? do those compare?
on a few beaters years ago and they were outstanding shooters. Not the same class however

Can't say this enough, Centurion Arms is the best kept secret in the AR world with barrels that are lasers.

 
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Just bought a McGowan mostly because I could get almost all the specifications I wanted. I ordered a 16" fluted HBAR profile, 1:7 twist with a 5/8x24 thread. I have a CarbonSix barrel on my Sig Cross which is a McGowan blank and it's shooting really well.

White Oak had a sale on a fluted 16" but I wasn't sure who made that blank and you have to spend twice as much to get something other than the "normal" 1/2x28 threading. Just wish the McGowan was nitrided.
 
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I went with a 11.5” Bartlein of this one CLE built for me.
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I wish they also made a smaller contour. I have three of their lightest and they're up there with Noveske's beefy contours in weight. I sorta wish they did nitride too, but I have a stainless and a chrome moly melonited barrels from the same manufacturer with all the same specs aside from what was mentioned and the bare steel definitely shoots better.
I've read there can be issues with nitriding if not done correctly that ultimately affect how well the barrel will shoot. Definitely looking for a shooter but also something that lasts a while and I know nitriding helps in that department. I took a hard look at Rainier's mountain barrel as well for that very reason.

Weight is why I got the fluting. I have a "lightweight" 16" barrel on the rifle currently and its a sub-5 pound gun. I expect to be well over 5 with the new barrel but still under six.
 
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I ended up buying a Criterion Hybrid 16" carbine-length 223 Wylde barrel for a build based on all the positive reviews. Price wasn't bad at all. I have two LaRue Ultimate Uppers which are 16" heavy-barrel profile with mid-length gas, 1/8 twist 223 Wylde and those are sub-MOA out of the box with cheap WWB 55gr M193. First time I ever had an AR15 barrel produce under 1" groups at 100yd with vanilla ammo. It was even tighter with 77gr SMK loads. I have not borescoped my Criterion yet but the LaRue barrel had the gas port drilled in a better spot - not mid-way between a groove/land like Daniel Defense and some other brands.

Speaking of nitriding, I've heard of issues with Faxon's process or whomever they use as a contractor for the process. I have two Glock 17 barrels and their nitriding causes the threaded portion to be super rough as heck. So rough it was chewing their own crappy thread protectors eventually leaving the threads bare/shiny on the protector (barrel itself was fine). I thought it was their thread protectors but they spun on my other 1/2-28 muzzles just fine. In contrast, whatever nitriding process that SilencerCo uses is smooth... All of my 1/2-28 stuff spins onto my SIlencerCo Glock barrels like butter. I contacted Faxon about this and they were nice enough to swap barrels for me and even handpicked one out - but it was still noticeably rougher. Reading reviews of Faxon's other barrel products, it seems like they are having issues with the nitriding and/or manufacturing process. I recall Dead Air going through this issue as well with their Xeno suppressor mounts and having rough thread surfaces. Maybe they used the same contractor to perform the nitriding... In contrast, Rearden's nitrided 17-4 Atlas and muzzle devices are like buttery smooth and clean.
 
A lot of us use BA barrels too because they are cheap.

There's a reason some automobiles cost $X and some $XXX.
Your posts makes Criterion barrels irrelevant to you because you injected cost into your deciding factor from your previous post.
Buying BA is a little like playing Russian roulette.................sometiimes they are good to very good, sometimes not so good.

Criterion is a far safer bet, so is Ranier (which I think now are Criterion blanks), & as someone else mentioned, I have an FN 14.5 that is pinned & welded that shoots very well, better than I had expected.

MM
 
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The McGowen turned out to be Russian roulette as well...and the house won. Got it in short order and it had a multitude of issues upon arrival. It's been boxed back up and is on its way back to them. Will give them one more chance to get it right otherwise I'll move on, likely to a WOA.
 
What happened? I had to send a McGowen back recently as well
Crown was FUBAR, the rifling didn't start at equidistant points from the chamber, gouge just in front of the gas port on the inside of the barrel, and the threaded muzzle was really really rough. Looked like they let an apprentice do it and it was his first barrel. The fluting looked good but they really didn't knock down the cut edges, if you grabbed it wrong, it'd likely cut you. Kinda sucks because it's exactly what I wanted. Hopefully try #2 is up to specification. I'm just worried I'll get it back, everything will be good but the chamber will be off.

Did you get a new barrel back or are you still waiting? Was it resolved to your satisfaction?
 
I've been to Criterion, barrel shopping, on numerous occasions and they are always available to purchase on back order only. So I've never pulled the trigger on one. Does anyone have any experience as to the wait time on back orders?
 
I've been to Criterion, barrel shopping, on numerous occasions and they are always available to purchase on back order only. So I've never pulled the trigger on one. Does anyone have any experience as to the wait time on back orders?

Can't help you with backorder lead times, but the only one I found in-stock was the one I needed anyhow (16" Hybrid carbine length gas system).
I borescoped it, and the rifling is quite nice. Gas port is a hair off-center from one of the rifling lands but not bad.
I watched a few YouTube reviews of the same barrel and they commented the Criterion yielded faster muzzle velocities for some reason and also remarked on how well made the barrel was. I saw that their gas port was also a hair off-center but nowhere as bad as the FN Herstal and other barrels.
I have a Daniel Defense barrel with the gas port in between a land and groove just like the FN and other barrels in that YT review.
 
Carbine length 16" on a 5.56?

I'm at the point where gas length kinda matters more to me than chf vs nitride vs melonited.

Yes (223 Wylde, 1/8 twist). But I'm running a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block in preparation for running a can. I checked around and couldn't find much to say that accuracy would be affected by carbine-length vs mid-length vs rifle-length gas systems. I've never had a problem with the carbine length gas system. Criterion gas port was 0.068", chromelined 4150 barrel. Crown looked good.

FWIW, my LaRue Ultimate Uppers/Stealth Uppers are 16" heavy profile mid-length gas. Sub-MOA out of the box even with WWB M193 (South Korean made) 5-10 shot groups.

The Criterion Hybrid seems to be slightly thinner than the heavy profile under the handguard but not by much (which is what I wanted). A YouTube review of the same Criterion yielded very tight groups.
 
It's not an accuracy thing. It's a recoil impulse thing. Even with AGBs. Carbine will absolutely function. But Shorter the dwell, smoother the recoil.

Oh yeah, I hear you... The shorter gas system is going to be more aggressive than a mid/rifle length gas system. I have been using a 9mm buffer for almost 15 years (5.6 oz) which is heavier than the H2 buffers now used on M4s. I have an Odin Works buffer that I planned to try out for experimenting with the can to try and increase dwell time. It goes up to 7.6 oz with 3 tungsten weights. Mainly to reduce blow by from the higher backpressure cans with 5.56
 
Yes (223 Wylde, 1/8 twist). But I'm running a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block in preparation for running a can. I checked around and couldn't find much to say that accuracy would be affected by carbine-length vs mid-length vs rifle-length gas systems. I've never had a problem with the carbine length gas system.
Adjust all you want, carbine is gonna suck. Then it'll suck more with a can.
 
Maybe with a shorter dwell time forward of gas port you could use lighter buffers to compliment an AGB and the entire reciprocating system can move faster with less violence.
I want to slow down the action and not speed it up. Never had an issue with the 5.6 oz buffer in almost 2 decades. Plan to run the SA gas lock slightly venting just to reduce carbon buildup in action. I always hated cleaning gas rifles.

Only time I had issues with failures to extract are with Wolf steel cased ammo after 250+ rd at the range. That’s also when my SCAR had the same failure with the same Wolf ammo.
 
That's like saying your 86 Toyota Tercel has been getting you to work reliably for decades, so what could possibly be better? Once you step up to at least a 98 Taurus you'll never go back.

I have two LaRue ultimate uppers that are mid-length gas systems. I never really noticed much of a difference versus my carbine-length gas system uppers. The LaRue is more accurate, but then again those barrels are polygonal bore, heavy-profile. I haven't tried my Criterion Hybrid yet.
Since we're talking cars now, my 2000 Crown Vic worked reliably for decades as did my 2007 Mustang GT. I really wish Michigan road salt didn't destroy it because I'd still want to drive it. I have a Tesla and a newer Fusion Sport (twin turbo V6 AWD) and these newer cars just aren't made as good as the older cars and the new fangled features are often stupid. Like Tesla's traffic-aware cruise control drives like a newly permitted driver and there's no way to switch to a simple dumb cruise control.

Then you're approaching this all wrong. CLGS 16" barrels have a ton of dwell time and that's gonna give you a fast running bolt.

Yes and hence the 5.6 oz buffer I run in those barrels to slow things down. I went over this back in 2006-2007 when I had the Bushmaster Patrolman/M4 barrel that had issues with the steel-cased Wolf ammo.

BLUF:
I bought the carbine-length Criterion Hybrid already and installed it in a new upper receiver, and don't intend to swap it out for a mid-length unless there is some inherent accuracy difference between the gas systems. Otherwise, backpressure from a can isn't going to be a problem for me.
 
Throw my hat in the ring. It’s a 20” HBAR not 22” as filed on Ballistix-X fyi. That’s Freedom Munitions 60 gr VMAX. It shoots 77 SMK hand loads similarly. First shot is cold suppressed w/ Omega 30.
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I wouldnt hesitate to buy a criterion barrel. I've had criterion on bolt guns and currently have a 10.5" criterion on my short gas gun. I have a 20" proof on my dmr setup. They both shoot about the same at 100y. The 10.5" gun has been shot out to 600 with 77s and it shot good.
 
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gotta say it again, call up Monty and just buy a CA and be done.
Do you know who's barrels he's using?

I'm gonna bet on FN...............not many smaller businesses of any kind today can run a chrome plating system because of the environmental regs, so not many barrel makers can supply chrome in-house.

MM
 
Do you know who's barrels he's using?

I'm gonna bet on FN...............not many smaller businesses of any kind today can run a chrome plating system because of the environmental regs, so not many barrel makers can supply chrome in-house.

MM
Believe they source them from FN and then finish in house however, they are tapered to Monty spec given his view, experience and background with navy small arms development/sniping. They remind me of Noveske barrels when John was around and early LaRue barrels. lasers
 
Wow. I usually get pretty good looking barrels from them. I had to send one back bc It showed up without muzzle threads. Took about 2 weeks for them to turn it around. They have a generally, pretty good product/ model going on. I hope they don't start slipping.
Thats good to hear. I had pretty much decided to write them off. They seemed uninterested in looking at the barrel they sent me, even after pictures of the bad threads. I hadn't received any communication with them, and I was deciding if i even wanted to send the barrel back and deal with them. Then last week I received a shipping notification from them. I guess I will see what shows up. The other one is still sitting on my desk.

My 20 practical from them shoots pretty good, if I do my part. :ROFLMAO: But seriously, its pretty accurate.
 
Looking into building a RECCE AR15 using a 13.9" Criterion. Have been recommended Roscoe, BA, and Proof Research on the high end. Would like to keep the rifle barrel between 13.7 - 14.5" and looking to get under MOA at 100y with 77gr factory ammo it likes. Plan on taking it out to 600 yards max. I understand CL barrels aren't as accurate as nitride or SS, but looking to run this hard suppressed 50% of the time and live in humid Texas so corrosion resistance is a concern. That and I'll be using this in classes, and some light competition.

Big question here is, what am I gaining by going with Proof Research at 3x the cost for a CF 14.5" besides saving sub 4oz and what am I losing by going with BA, Roscoe, {insert other barrel brand} by saving 1/3 the cost? Criterion's CORE model jumped out to me for the gas port size, weight and people here have been getting good results.
Most of my barrels are Proof CF but I also have Wilson combat, BA, and Criterion. Proof is the best for weight and accuracy. Is it worth it, well the cost per value may not be on par compared to others but then again you pay the most for the best. The Proof lacks in longevity of high use but then again most don’t use them enough to see it. Go with proof if you want the best and don’t mind spending more for top notch. Wilson is also more for accuracy vs longevity at a more affordable cost. Criterion is good balance for battle rifle longevity but weighs more. BA is just the best value for not the best but good at everything including price.
 
Most of my barrels are Proof CF but I also have Wilson combat, BA, and Criterion. Proof is the best for weight and accuracy. Is it worth it, well the cost per value may not be on par compared to others but then again you pay the most for the best. The Proof lacks in longevity of high use but then again most don’t use them enough to see it. Go with proof if you want the best and don’t mind spending more for top notch. Wilson is also more for accuracy vs longevity at a more affordable cost. Criterion is good balance for battle rifle longevity but weighs more. BA is just the best value for not the best but good at everything including price.
Not sure why the Proof would have any reduction in longevity over any other quality barrel. Is the implication that they use an inferior steel to Criterion? I would find that hard to believe.


Maybe there is a longevity difference between cut and button rifled barrels that I am unaware of...
 
Not sure why the Proof would have any reduction in longevity over any other quality barrel. Is the implication that they use an inferior steel to Criterion? I would find that hard to believe.


Maybe there is a longevity difference between cut and button rifled barrels that I am unaware of...
It's the chrome lining.
 
Looking into building a RECCE AR15 using a 13.9" Criterion. Have been recommended Roscoe, BA, and Proof Research on the high end. Would like to keep the rifle barrel between 13.7 - 14.5" and looking to get under MOA at 100y with 77gr factory ammo it likes. Plan on taking it out to 600 yards max. I understand CL barrels aren't as accurate as nitride or SS, but looking to run this hard suppressed 50% of the time and live in humid Texas so corrosion resistance is a concern. That and I'll be using this in classes, and some light competition.

Big question here is, what am I gaining by going with Proof Research at 3x the cost for a CF 14.5" besides saving sub 4oz and what am I losing by going with BA, Roscoe, {insert other barrel brand} by saving 1/3 the cost? Criterion's CORE model jumped out to me for the gas port size, weight and people here have been getting good results.
Don’t write off nitride vs chrome. There’s a reason Glock, Walther, HK and numerous other manufacturers have gone to nitride inside and but. They submit those guns to military trials, and corrosion resistance is a very big part of those tests. And nitride doesn’t “chip off” at the microscopic level, at least at first, as it is a plating vs metal treatment as is nitride. But the best nitride treatment is probably QPQ or Melonite, which, I’ve read, involve pre and mid nitride treatment steps.
 
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Do you want to shoot small groups or do you want something that's going to shoot well for a long time?

If you want a precision rifle, go bartlein, krieger or whatever.

If you want a work horse that will shoot MOAish with the right ammo and last 10k+ rounds, then Criterion, Centurion, Geissele, etc. I have three criterion right now. What i like about them is that they handle heat well. Groups open up, but no "what the heck?" POI shifts.