American optics pre-WW2

[Mister Ridge]

What kind of optics were available in this country prior to World War 2? I know the external adjustment target scopes were available. I know that some small fixed power scopes like the Lyman Alaskan were available. What else was there? At what point did American scopes take the form that is familiar to us today? When did scopes like the Redfields and the Weaver K-series show up? Did we have any thing like the scopes that Germany apparently had? Some of the scopes that Germany had are recognizable to anyone that has seen a hunting rifle. I'm asking out of academic curiosity. Partly because I would like to know what could have ended up on the 1903A4. Mostly I'm just curious.

 

[Dan M]

There were four telescopic sights authorized for the M1903A4 rifle during the war:

M73B1 (Weaver 330C); from 1944 on the M73 (commercial Lyman Alaskan) ; M81 ; M82. The M73, M81 and M82 were only to be used when the M73B1 telescope was not available.

As to pre-WW2, there was no other telescope for the 03A4 because the 03A4 didn't exist. The Weaver was available and there really wasn't a huge surplus of optical manufacturing capacity in wartime.

Team M1903 rifles pre war could have Winchester B3, B4, B5, Model 1918 or A5 telescopes, Lyman 5A, Unertl, Fecker, etc.

I think that the German made Goerz was tested by the infantry board prior to WW1... anything had to be better than the M1908/1913 Warner & Swasey.

Check out TM 9-270 for additional information on the M73B1:

U.S.RIFLE, CAL .30, M1903A4 (SNIPER'S)
CHARACTERISTICS AND OPERATION;
AND USE OF TELESCOPIC SIGHT
28 SEPTEMBER 1943

I have a copy in my reference library.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Some of the WW1 optics are discussed in McBride's "A Rifleman Went to War." The whole book is online on Google Books... and searchable. Warner Swazy is referenced along with some Winchester scopes.

I think Dan M. hit all the high points.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Mister Ridge]

There were four telescopic sights authorized for the M1903A4 rifle during the war:

M73B1 (Weaver 330C); from 1944 on the M73 (commercial Lyman Alaskan) ; M81 ; M82. The M73, M81 and M82 were only to be used when the M73B1 telescope was not available.

As to pre-WW2, there was no other telescope for the 03A4 because the 03A4 didn't exist. The Weaver was available and there really wasn't a huge surplus of optical manufacturing capacity in wartime.

Team M1903 rifles pre war could have Winchester B3, B4, B5, Model 1918 or A5 telescopes, Lyman 5A, Unertl, Fecker, etc.

I think that the German made Goerz was tested by the infantry board prior to WW1... anything had to be better than the M1908/1913 Warner & Swasey.

Check out TM 9-270 for additional information on the M73B1:

U.S.RIFLE, CAL .30, M1903A4 (SNIPER'S)
CHARACTERISTICS AND OPERATION;
AND USE OF TELESCOPIC SIGHT
28 SEPTEMBER 1943

I have a copy in my reference library.

I appreciate the response but I wasn't really interested in the Springfield that much. I was really asking more about commercial optical sights available prior to WW2. I only brought up the Springfield because I was under the impression that they tested commercial optics early in it's development.

 

[JGaynor]

If you are really interested in this subject pick up a copy of Nick Stroebels "Old Rifle Scopes". Prior to WW2 the US optical industry was pretty primitive. Most of the manufacturers were small businesses. So ,for instance, a teller in the local bank would fit his deer rifle with a Weaver 330 or 29S. The bank manager - a Lyman Alaskan. The bank president - would send off to Stoger's for one of the german imports like a Hensoldt.

Another useful reference for you would be Townsend Whelen's Book on Telescopic Sights. First written in about 1935.

But the short answer to your question is the US sporting optical industry did not really take off until after WW2.
Regards,
Jim

 

[kraigWY]

The weaver k series was available prior to WWII. In fact the army couldn't get scopes fast enough so they also used K 2.5 commercial weavers and others.

 

[JGaynor]

The weaver k series was available prior to WWII. In fact the army couldn't get scopes fast enough so they also used K 2.5 commercial weavers and others.

The Weaver K series scopes were not introduced until 1947. Some commercial versions of the Weaver 330 which were functionallu equivalent to the M73B1 (i.e "330 Scope - M.8") were used on very early M1903A4's.

The scope ordnance really wanted but couldn't get was the Lyman Alaskan (M73) A few dribbled in in late 1944 or early 45 for the M1C.

Regards,

Jim