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American Rifle Company
- Thread starter Edds
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They are still balling out on rings, got a new set installed last week. They are introducing the new barlock which is an interesting take on a barrel nut.
They have lots of stuff going on, new machinery hitting the floor and new products coming out soon. The Bar-Loc being one.
I have had the first 2 prototypes of the Bar-loc here and cut some test pieces to do break-away torque testing with it. The latest rendition works very well. On purposefully undersized tenon threads, heavily lubricated and cut in soft SS (aka, like a budget price prefit barrel) the breakaway torque was consistently between 90-95 ftlbs.
I have had the first 2 prototypes of the Bar-loc here and cut some test pieces to do break-away torque testing with it. The latest rendition works very well. On purposefully undersized tenon threads, heavily lubricated and cut in soft SS (aka, like a budget price prefit barrel) the breakaway torque was consistently between 90-95 ftlbs.
Just from some rough calcs 60 in lbs on the Barloc should result in about 2000 lb of clamping force on the barrel.
I can believe the 90-95ft-lb on breakaway. That does drive the barrel threads much closer to the elastic range which results in greater consistency. 50ftlb on a barrel is only 2800lb force.
I'm looking forward to having it on my rifle
I can believe the 90-95ft-lb on breakaway. That does drive the barrel threads much closer to the elastic range which results in greater consistency. 50ftlb on a barrel is only 2800lb force.
I'm looking forward to having it on my rifle
Just because something functions means that we should disregard a better way?
People also asked why we needed an automobile when we had horses...
Guys... Guys... The point is that a hex wrench provides appropriate clamping force that otherwise would require a barrel vise, barrel nut wrench, action wrench, etc.
You can swap barrels with minimal and small tools, IF you want to. It's not (explicitly) for improvement in clamping force over traditional nuts/shoulders.
You can swap barrels with minimal and small tools, IF you want to. It's not (explicitly) for improvement in clamping force over traditional nuts/shoulders.
For me, the attraction of the Barloc is that it is the closest thing I've seen yet to the AI QuickLoc functionality on a non-AI action. Don't get me wrong, I like the AI action, but it (obviously) locks you into one of three chassis options (AT, AX, MPA), and the price of entry is quite high. The Barloc opens up that same functionality for the end user while allowing for a much wider selection of actions, chassis/stocks, and barrels.
Its not about accuracy, or an improvement over the conventional shoulder or barrel nut...
Its about ease of a barrel swap, right now I have my action wrench, a bar to go on it, modified aluminum pipe wrench for a barrel swap. I torque them the first time then match mark it.
With Barloc, I need a allen wrench, yep just a damn allen wrench. sooo I get to leave the #15 of other crap at the shop and replace it with a 1/2oz allen wrench. Turn of the screw will get you close enough for torque, I will verify that value at the shop with the torque screwdriver. But at the range TOS is close enough. Showing up to a match and decide its a windy beeoch that day, and want to swap to the 7mm in a couple of minutes is awesome along with dragging less gear with you. This is also a system that is unlike any others (im not familiar with the AI or DT setup). Simple gets the job done, keeps the system in predicable tension which will lend to repeatability and consistency. The WTO switchlug is not in the same category as this.
Its about ease of a barrel swap, right now I have my action wrench, a bar to go on it, modified aluminum pipe wrench for a barrel swap. I torque them the first time then match mark it.
With Barloc, I need a allen wrench, yep just a damn allen wrench. sooo I get to leave the #15 of other crap at the shop and replace it with a 1/2oz allen wrench. Turn of the screw will get you close enough for torque, I will verify that value at the shop with the torque screwdriver. But at the range TOS is close enough. Showing up to a match and decide its a windy beeoch that day, and want to swap to the 7mm in a couple of minutes is awesome along with dragging less gear with you. This is also a system that is unlike any others (im not familiar with the AI or DT setup). Simple gets the job done, keeps the system in predicable tension which will lend to repeatability and consistency. The WTO switchlug is not in the same category as this.
If I may:
Bench rest shooters often snap a barrel on by hand and go shoot magically small groups. Using that example why snug them up with a torque wrench at all? It comes down to group size and group center. If you have unlimited sighters and can afford the luxury of lots of time to shoot 5 record shots, then who cares... Group size is all your after. It matters little where on paper it happens.
If you need a gun to hold group size and group center then having that joint properly loaded becomes more relevant. Actually, it becomes rather important. Take the biggest, strongest guy you know and put a 26" long stick in his hand. Now go get a 2 year old girl. With her finger she'll steer the tip of that stick in any direction she wants. The setup ARC is now making solves this. The others merely make the attempt.
Ted's solution comes down to two things: A part/system that does the job. A part/system that is very user friendly.
That is a win anyway you slice it.
Bench rest shooters often snap a barrel on by hand and go shoot magically small groups. Using that example why snug them up with a torque wrench at all? It comes down to group size and group center. If you have unlimited sighters and can afford the luxury of lots of time to shoot 5 record shots, then who cares... Group size is all your after. It matters little where on paper it happens.
If you need a gun to hold group size and group center then having that joint properly loaded becomes more relevant. Actually, it becomes rather important. Take the biggest, strongest guy you know and put a 26" long stick in his hand. Now go get a 2 year old girl. With her finger she'll steer the tip of that stick in any direction she wants. The setup ARC is now making solves this. The others merely make the attempt.
Ted's solution comes down to two things: A part/system that does the job. A part/system that is very user friendly.
That is a win anyway you slice it.
With the Barloc, what are the chances of the hex screw loosening over a long period of time, like say 500 rounds worth? If it does won't that affect the zero?
I wouldn’t think it would loosen at all if it’s properly torqued. Kind of in the same way that the AI system doesn’t. AI uses a special washer under the head of the cap screw. Don’t know what it’s called, but it’s got radial bumps on each face and it seems to act like a lock washer.
Im curious to see the final iteration of the barlok.
Im curious to see the final iteration of the barlok.
I have practically perfect return to zero torquing a shouldered barrel on to 40 ft/lbs. 20 and 30 also work for that matter. less than a .1 mrad. Less than I can tell if it is my position or the RTZ, and less than the scope can adjust for. I've done this over, and over, and over again since May in a 223 barrel and two Dasher barrels. This second dasher barrel shoots around 1" to 1.3" groups at 300yds off bipods and a small rear bag. The "system" is capable of an accuracy and consistency that I can't practically use or bring to bear in the PRS matches that I shoot. We actually just used my barrel'd action to test the claim at 300yds that you don't need to bed Foundation Stocks (you still need to bed them). I really don't think the barrel knows the difference between 40 and 70 or 100ft/lbs. I'm sure from an engineers standpoint, mathematically, it does, but I'm not seeing a practical difference. This is also the second rifle I've had/ tested in this configuration. They both performed. Check out Surgeon's CSRs.
All that being said, if I wanted to use a barrel nut'd prefit...I'd probably buy a Barloc ...bc...why not? I guess my point is I don't think pursuing a Barloc for my barrels is going to improve anything in my situation and if I wanted the simplest and most repeatable barrel swap, it wouldn't be a barrel nut'd prefit, even with a Barloc.
Those are .6" dots in the photo's for reference.
I don't doubt you in the least. However you are one data point. I'm speaking in terms of broad spectrum of calibers, contours, bullet weights, etc. In that all encompassing arena, the barrel torque does matter. I've seen it on more than one gun spanned over almost 20 years.
That is the advantage of doing this day in and day out. You gather a whole lot more information and you get it from multiple sources simultaneously.
Just sayin...
If the screw is properly torqued the chances of it loosening are very very slim, proper torque will place the screw and clamping portion in the elastic range which reduces the ability for a fastener to rotate out by it self. Constant vibration is the enemy to this, like in a machine that is operating, Guns have there moments of vibration which is very short duration. It is an advantage that the screw is perpendicular to the main axis of the vibration also.
Should work with jam-nut prefit style barrels in 1.0625 x 16tpi , 1.0625 x 18tpi, 1.0625 x 20tpi, and 1.125 x 20tpi.
There's a 2nd option that uses a shouldered barrel which will work with and pitch threads with major diameters of 1.0625 or 1.125", but I'd imagine the barrel would have to be shouldered specifically with the Barloc system in mind.
The only thing that may interfere is if the action has protrusions that would hit the Barloc (extended picatinny rails, for example).
There's a 2nd option that uses a shouldered barrel which will work with and pitch threads with major diameters of 1.0625 or 1.125", but I'd imagine the barrel would have to be shouldered specifically with the Barloc system in mind.
The only thing that may interfere is if the action has protrusions that would hit the Barloc (extended picatinny rails, for example).
