Ammo price gouging

[rtB]

LGS sells one pallet a month of ammo.
LGS sells out in one week.
LGS orders 4 pallets of ammo.
LGS sells out in one week.
LGS orders 16 pallets of ammo.
LGS gets 1/4 pallet of ammo because every other LGS orders 16 pallets of ammo.
LGS raises price because if they can only get 1/4 of what they used to get, they MUST make more per unit to keep the doors open.

From podunk flyover country.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

There you go.

of course thats a benefit so probably doesnt count

 

[Davidu]

So rtB,
Is that hypothetical?
Or are you in the ammo supply chain business and know this to be true?
I’m like theGerman and would really like to know who is and who isn’t making the extreme markups at the retail level.

 

[rlarsen462]

So rtB,
Is that hypothetical?
Or are you in the ammo supply chain business and know this to be true?
I’m like theGerman and would really like to know who is and who isn’t making the extreme markups at the retail level.

I do know that my LGS has not raised prices very much (although they have a little just to keep up with the supplier pricing increases they've seen), but they get a fraction of what they order. They'll order like 100 cases of 9mm and get 3, all of which is gone as soon as it hits the floor even with 2 box maximums.

 

[rtB]

Yes, info directly from my LGS owner.

Every store in the country could sell 16 times what they normally sell if they could get it.

If every store in the country could get 16 times what they normally sell they'd be giving it away.

 

[W54/XM-388]

At my favourite LGS, they mentioned folks have taken to seeing what odd ammo they can buy and then getting a pistol to match.
Which worked for awhile.....
I was wondering why their shelves and cases seemed really bare of new firearms, and apparently anything new that comes in is pretty much bought immediately unless it's some high priced target thing.

 

[roamin]

I’m all for capitalism. I’ve been tracking the ammo prices on Gun Broker that are available to bid on and I have no heartburn for those folks.
But, I’m not going to forget the retailers that are pricing their ammo based on Gun Broker bidding ceilings.
I’ll make it a point to buy from other retailers once ammo stock “normalizes”

Zero sympathy for the unprepared we've warned you people for years that this was coming if you didn't listen you have only yourself to blame.

I don't think you realize how good of a price $1.95/round for the 147gr ELD's is right now. I don't see any retailers that have the 147's in stock in fact on ammoseek only 3 retailers have ANY 6.5cm ammo in stock nationally and cheapest available is $2/round for S&B.

Here's a couple auctions for the 143gr ELD-X on Gunbroker that don't close for another day and they both look about to close at over $4/round which makes $1.95/round for the 147's from SGAmmo look like a deal as they typically used to sell for close to the same price.

With only 3 retailers having 6.5cm ammo it's becoming very scarce and I'd say that if more 6.5cm ammo doesn't come in stock nationally the price is about to really soar the same thing has happened with 6.5 PRC that's only available from one source right now at $6/round and the 300 PRC that I just watched the only ammo that's been available for weeks sell for $8.40/round on Gunbroker. If you needed that ammo that your complaining about the price of you may wind up regretting not having bought it.

 

[Davidu]

Metz noted the situation is not a byproduct of manufacturing shutdowns during shelter-in-place orders.

“The first quarter demonstrated again, why and how Federal, CCI, and Speer are the world leaders in ammunition manufacturing,” he said. “In a rapidly growing and unpredictable market, our team was able to make real-time adjustments and operations to meet market demands and simultaneously leveraged our commercial strengths…And as a result of our continued focus on employee safety, our ammunition operations have stayed open through the pandemic.”

Looks like there’s been no slowdown in manufacturing. Demand has outstripped all inventory. My take is the distributors and retailers have sold maybe 6 to 8 months of inventory in 2 months. Some of it at inflated retail prices over the cost. Now some retailers are pissing and moaning that they have to raise prices because they can’t get product. I call BS. They just made their margin in a very short time. It’s the same thing with reloading supplies. Example : Hodgdon H4350 smokeless powder $216 out of stock. Gunbroker current price from PrecisionRifleSystems is $775
Maybe, like some have said, I’m just whining. It won’t make a rat’s arse to the retailers, but I am going to be more selective where I spend my money down the road.

 

[BoilerUP]

 

[Davidu]

Zero sympathy for the unprepared we've warned you people for years that this was coming if you didn't listen you have only yourself to blame.

I don't think you realize how good of a price $1.95/round for the 147gr ELD's is right now. I don't see any retailers that have the 147's in stock in fact on ammoseek only 3 retailers have ANY 6.5cm ammo in stock nationally and cheapest available is $2/round for S&B.

Here's a couple auctions for the 143gr ELD-X on Gunbroker that don't close for another day and they both look about to close at over $4/round which makes $1.95/round for the 147's from SGAmmo look like a deal as they typically used to sell for close to the same price.

With only 3 retailers having 6.5cm ammo it's becoming very scarce and I'd say that if more 6.5cm ammo doesn't come in stock nationally the price is about to really soar the same thing has happened with 6.5 PRC that's only available from one source right now at $6/round and the 300 PRC that I just watched the only ammo that's been available for weeks sell for $8.40/round on Gunbroker. If you needed that ammo that your complaining about the price of you may wind up regretting not having bought it.


View attachment 7473016View attachment 7473017

 

[Davidu]

curious.
who are “we’ve”
and “you kind of people”. ?
I missed that memo

 

[E. Bryant]

What's the more favorable situation if you need some ammo right now?

1) A seller who is offering the same price as in Feb 2020, but does not have any in stock and cannot promise a date when they will have more?
2) A seller who is offering ammo at a price 20% higher than it was 10 months ago, and is offering the ability to backorder with fulfillment in an estimated 2-3 weeks?
3) A seller who has ammo on the shelf right now but is charging 2x the previous price?

The answer, of course, is "it depends". If you're sitting on 100k of 9mm, you might say that option 1 is OK. If you're a first-time gun buyer who has suddenly woken up to the possible threat of violence, then sitting around for better prices is probably not as attractive.

That's the beauty of capitalism; prices are information, and that information can be acted upon by all parties involved in the market.

I hypothesize that if companies had raised prices earlier in this crisis, then we'd actually be able to buy more ammo at lower price right now.

 

[Charger442]

SGAmmo has been terrific for many years. Great guy to deal with.

i dont know how many times ive said it in the last 6-9 months on here, in every one of these stupid "gouging" threads.

Everyone claims to be a capitalist until capitalism does capitalist things with the supply and price of something they want to buy.

Then they start threads about price gouging and how "i aint gonna forget who dun this here to us!! When things get back to normal, i aint buying from them no mores. Derpy derp!"

Good. dont buy from SGammo anymore. The rest of us who have been patronizing his business for the last decade will continue to do so.

 

[Fig]

 

[W54/XM-388]

View attachment 7473110

Post that in the Meme contest thread

 

[Fig]

I am debating whether to post some banworthy ones.

 

[kenny1773]

You have to ask yourself

What is normal supply and demand pricing today
vs
What is price gouging pricing

The two are not the same. See Cheaper than Dirt for an example of price gouging. I am going guess that SGammo is closer to normal supply and demand pricing right now


Pretty sure none of you had kids when ticket me elmo was all the rage at Christmas time (I forget what year that was, but I had kids that wanted it) and literally brawls were breaking out in stores over tickle me elmos. Prices for the $20 toy were well above $1000 because desperate idiots were paying that much for them.

How dare my little precious not get everything it wants for Christmas

anyway, same thing is going on here today, you just have to find the new normal and you can identify the gougers (and avoid them now and in the future) not everyone with higher prices is a gouger, some increase considering the circumstance is normal.

 

[Mister Ridge]

I find nothing illegal about the pricing but I can lament the retards that perpetuate it and scorn the opportunistic jackasses that profit from it.

ETA: the above is a general observation and does not refer to SGAmmo or any other specific seller.

 

[jinxx4ever]

here's my take on this and i've sit by the last 6 months since this all started and not said a thing on here, because basically when it first started and if ur priced anything to high on here u were almost banned.
here's the thing, i notice threads on here about people buying stocks when they were down and then boasting and pounding their chest when they turned around and sold them for 4,5, 20x times what they bought them for, a few months later. Plenty on here were congratulating them and patting them on the back saying "your the man"
Meanwhile ammo and gun dealers the last 4 years have been selling ammo and components at little above cost. At times barely breaking even. I know this for a fact. Everyone was welcome to buy.
Some of u have been bragging about the new car, boat, house, vacation, etc, but not about stocking up when supplies were cheap.
So now those of us who took advantage of these cheap and plentiful items, want to make some money of what we have stockpiled.
That is a sin on here, because ?? Well some on here were to busy doing and buying other things, and this is a gun forum and if u have more than plenty , u should now sell it to us with just a "little" profit because u have it and we don't. I've got news for you, that;s the very definition of "socialism" most on here want to shout to the high heavens we will not tolerate in this country,
Well guess what, some of us have been buying guns, powder, bullets, brass etc. Basically they are our "stock market" and u know what ?, we're going to make money while it last.
You call it price gouging, i call it "capitolism" baby. It's how America was made and thank God is still being made today. Buy cheap , sell high. Doesn't matter what the goods are, stocks, food, land, bullets, powder, etc. Everyone on this forum had the same opportunities the last 4 years. Some took advantage of it, some didn't.
I haven't decided if i'll sell much, i've sold a couple boxes of primers for north of a $100 and the guys were happy to have them and i turned around and bought more gun related items with the money, but I had to pay more than i would have in the past. Just the way it goes.
Good thing is , i'm good for years to come, a lotta years
So give me hell all u want sometimes the truth is unpleasant to hear, but it's still the truth

 

[roamin]

curious.
who are “we’ve”
and “you kind of people”. ?
I missed that memo

"We've" = the firearms community and yes we've been telling others to stock up for years

"You people" = the people all over social media and elsewhere bitching because they didn't listen

 

[Davidu]

SGAmmo has been terrific for many years. Great guy to deal with.

i dont know how many times ive said it in the last 6-9 months on here, in every one of these stupid "gouging" threads.

Everyone claims to be a capitalist until capitalism does capitalist things with the supply and price of something they want to buy.

Then they start threads about price gouging and how "i aint gonna forget who dun this here to us!! When things get back to normal, i aint buying from them no mores. Derpy derp!"

Good. dont buy from SGammo anymore. The rest of us who have been patronizing his business for the last decade will continue to do so.

You must have just read the Cliff Notes.
Already acknowledged the mistake of picking on SDammo
You will appear a little smarter by sticking to the subject rather than trying to make it personal

 

[squishee]

Just admit you shit the bed ,and change the sheets.

 

[Davidu]

Just admit you shit the bed ,and change the sheets.

Another great reply
I haven’t been around here near as long as a bunch of you all. Usually ask a question and get some informative answers.
But throw a little bitch fit about the ammo prices and good grief
Reminds me of sitting in very long gas station lines in the early 70’s trying to get enough fuel to get home. I’m pretty sure I bitched about that too
Only had the other poor suckers in line to tell me I should have seen it coming and stocked up on gas.

 

[roamin]

Another great reply
I haven’t been around here near as long as a bunch of you all. Usually ask a question and get some informative answers.
But throw a little bitch fit about the ammo prices and good grief
Reminds me of sitting in very long gas station lines in the early 70’s trying to get enough fuel to get home. I’m pretty sure I bitched about that too
Only had the other poor suckers in line to tell me I should have seen it coming and stocked up on gas.

Ahh yes the great gun control....I mean gas control threats from the Left in the 70's.

"Hell yes we're gonna take your Premium and your Regular" ---Beto

"If I could've gotten the votes for an outright gasoline ban Mr and Ms America turn all your gas in" --The bitch who's grave I'd love to take to take a road trip to shit on one day

"Military grade gasoline doesn't belong in our streets" ---Obama

Holy shit you people have all sorts have some weird contorted logic anything but take accountability and admit you fuck'd up.

 

[Davidu]

Ahh yes the great gun control....I mean gas control threats from the Left in the 70's.

"Hell yes we're gonna take your Premium and your Regular" ---Beto

"If I could've gotten the votes for an outright gasoline ban Mr and Ms America turn all your gas in" --The bitch who's grave I'd love to take to take a road trip to shit on one day

"Military grade gasoline doesn't belong in our streets" ---Obama

Holy shit you people have all sorts have some weird contorted logic anything but take accountability and admit you fuck'd up.

has to be a great response, but regrettably I just don’t get it.

 

[Seed tick]

The problem is partially due to the amount of ammo a lot of us shoot. We go through a lot more than the average joe due to training matches etc. We need a fairly regular supply so as not to get into the “stash” so to speak. Hell most LRP matches require 250-300 rounds. Training for carbine or handgun can easily be twice that.

 

[Davidu]

The Schofield Kid: Yea...well I guess they had it comin'.
William Munny: We all have it comin' kid.

Have a few rounds of 300 Blackout left
Think I’ll try killing a few hogs tonight

 

[roamin]

has to be a great response, but regrettably I just don’t get it.

We know you don't get it.

And who knew this was coming it was unforeseeable because the gas shortage.

 

[BytorJr]

There was 22LR at targetsports for 10c/rd. Not super bad. I held off, business meeting, 1 hour later - all gone.

6.5CM at Bass Pro...gone in 10 minutes.

 

[tinytigers]

There was 22LR at targetsports for 10c/rd. Not super bad. I held off, business meeting, 1 hour later - all gone.

Thats not bad at all. Ive been seeing 22 go for about what 9mm used to go for.. this is getting ridiculous.

 

[BytorJr]

Thats not bad at all. Ive been seeing 22 go for about what 9mm used to go for.. this is getting ridiculous.

I almost jumped on it; but....I didn't. need other 22 . Well, desire, not need.

 

[Doc68]

I just bought 2k of 17hmr. Normal pricing for it.

Doc

 

[Steve_In_29]

One thing that is contributing to cost is that the US has ZERO places that smelt lead ore. We mine it and ship it overseas for smelting and then it gets shipped back. With the reduction in global shipping and other countries being shut down due to the scam-demic I would venture there is a serious shortage.

While most of us older folks are well stocked we need to remember that every year a new group of shooters enters the fold. Shooters who weren't old enough to buy before and now need to pay through the nose.

 

[Steve_In_29]

What I'm curious about is, who is actually raising the prices?

Is it the manufacturer, distributor or the retailers?

Like, is ammo still being made for 'pre panic' prices at the manufacturer or has the manufacturer just stuck a big price tag on it as they can't keep up?

Or is it the retailers still getting ammo they would sell for 32 cents a round (or whatever) and then they decide to make it $1/round because it sells so fast?

Give me that answer and I'll know who to be unhappy with.

Regardless, the people who I'm pissed at are all those faggots stockpiling ammo that never actually fucking shoot it, or go shoot 20 rounds every other month. Meanwhile, people like me who shoot 3-4+ times a week now cant fucking have ammo to replenish all of the training stock.

The one silver lining is, apparently if I figure out who the non shooting stockpilers are, it'll be an easy exercise to go and take all of their ammo from them at some point without much in the ways of a fight as they don't even know how to move their fatbody and shoot.

I envision most of them like the Jabba scene out of RoTJ where its Jabba laying in his palace, but ontop of ammo crates.

About a year or so ago it was reported by industry insiders that ammo component costs were rising and the retail prices were going to reflect that in the near future. Ammo went up several cents a round and the large retailers are pricing their stocks accordingly. Hence why places like Academy, Bass Pro, etc sell out instantaneously when a shipment arrives despite limiting the amount you can buy.

Other smaller places are raising their prices to enable them to keep the lights on when they are only selling 100 boxes of ammo instead of their normal 1000 (just an example, not actual numbers). And places like CTD raise their's to the sky because they never let a good scare go to waste.

No offense but if a person is shooting 3 or 4 times a week they should have been sitting on 10s of thousands of rounds to support the habit. The writting was on the wall as the Covid/riots started and prices were still normal for a few months. I bought a bunch at pre-panic prices at the beginning of this crap.

 

[TheGerman]

About a year or so ago it was reported by industry insiders that ammo component costs were rising and the retail prices were going to reflect that in the near future. Ammo went up several cents a round and the large retailers are pricing their stocks accordingly. Hence why places like Academy, Bass Pro, etc sell out instantaneously when a shipment arrives despite limiting the amount you can buy.

Other smaller places are raising their prices to enable them to keep the lights on when they are only selling 100 boxes of ammo instead of their normal 1000 (just an example, not actual numbers). And places like CTD raise their's to the sky because they never let a good scare go to waste.

No offense but if a person is shooting 3 or 4 times a week they should have been sitting on 10s of thousands of rounds to support the habit. The writting was on the wall as the Covid/riots started and prices were still normal for a few months. I bought a bunch at pre-panic prices at the beginning of this crap.

Who says Im not?

Hell, I had to put a TA50 cabinet into a seperate room just for ammo a few years back.

My point was, people who shoot 3-4 times a week generally use their ammo and then replenish so they're not up against a hard number to run out against.

For example, for 5.56, I'd buy cheaper 223 steel for training. Both for round count and the malfunctions it would give. If I shot 500 rounds of it that week, I'd replace it with another 500 round case, usually a second 500 round case and then my normal 1k of legit M193 that got stacked in a room. Rinse/repeat. Now I can't, and have to make a decision on, do I still shoot (I do) and eventually run into the possibility of hitting an 'end', or let everything diminish and sit around waiting on ammo.

I also have guys willing to put in alot of work to get capable and now are running into, where the fuck do they get ammo to train with? There are some workarounds I'm looking into and when we do train its generally low round counts and focusing on movement, technique and situational 'what do you do' kind of things, but this is just absurd.

I have another 'padded' feature in that I can reload a metric ton of 5.56 right now with whats on hand to stave off from me dipping into the M193 for training. But, people buying anything they can get their hands on, yet most not being able to even manipulate the weapon before I'd come and take it out of their hand, are a big part of the problem.

My biggest issue is those faggots buying anything they can in hopes of sitting on it and selling it for 10x what they bought it for. I'd have zero issue with making their ammo, my ammo.

 

[Nik H]

BUY MORE AMMO even at today's prices.

It is called dollar cost averaging....stop your crying and start your buying or soon enough you'll be dying.

 

[mkollman74]

I was looking for a thread regarding ammo prices to reply to rather than start a new one. Guess I missed it
I don’t believe for a minute manufacturers have substantially raised their prices as I’ve found no huge raw material shortages. Raising prices due to low inventory is pretty classic price gouging.
That’s just my opinion
We will see how other retailers price their ammo when supply returns.

https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2020/03/price-gouging-daren-wiseley.html I'll just leave this here...

 

[roamin]

Closed at $5/round didn't see that coming ............$6 do we hear $6.....

 

[acudaowner]

price gouging is pretty easy to fix , stop buying that overly expensive ammo and shop somewhere else that is cheaper .

 

[308pirate]

Looks like there’s been no slowdown in manufacturing. Demand has outstripped all inventory. My take is the distributors and retailers have sold maybe 6 to 8 months of inventory in 2 months. Some of it at inflated retail prices over the cost. Now some retailers are pissing and moaning that they have to raise prices because they can’t get product. I call BS. They just made their margin in a very short time.

There is absolutely no way you could ever had run a sustainable business if you think this is all there is to it.

 

[Charger442]

Closed at $5/round didn't see that coming ............$6 do we hear $6.....



View attachment 7474073

That doesn't look good for, or do anything to resist the stereotypes of the 6.5 creedmores shooter

 

[roamin]

That doesn't look good for, or do anything to resist the stereotypes of the 6.5 creedmores shooter

*Creedmoor*

I've got 7,700 rounds of those 143's that I paid just over $1/round for according to that auction it's worth $31,000 more than I paid for it so stereotype away.

 

[TDFT1]

I’m all for capitalism. I’ve been tracking the ammo prices on Gun Broker that are available to bid on and I have no heartburn for those folks.
But, I’m not going to forget the retailers that are pricing their ammo based on Gun Broker bidding ceilings.
I’ll make it a point to buy from other retailers once ammo stock “normalizes”

I do the same thing. Some retailers are getting scammed themselves just to have stock. Hard to know which it is.

 

[TDFT1]

What I'm curious about is, who is actually raising the prices?

Is it the manufacturer, distributor or the retailers?

Like, is ammo still being made for 'pre panic' prices at the manufacturer or has the manufacturer just stuck a big price tag on it as they can't keep up?

Or is it the retailers still getting ammo they would sell for 32 cents a round (or whatever) and then they decide to make it $1/round because it sells so fast?

Give me that answer and I'll know who to be unhappy with.

Regardless, the people who I'm pissed at are all those faggots stockpiling ammo that never actually fucking shoot it, or go shoot 20 rounds every other month. Meanwhile, people like me who shoot 3-4+ times a week now cant fucking have ammo to replenish all of the training stock.

The one silver lining is, apparently if I figure out who the non shooting stockpilers are, it'll be an easy exercise to go and take all of their ammo from them at some point without much in the ways of a fight as they don't even know how to move their fatbody and shoot.

I envision most of them like the Jabba scene out of RoTJ where its Jabba laying in his palace, but ontop of ammo crates.

Exactly, if they want any stock, they are paying up..

 

[Davidu]

There is absolutely no way you could ever had run a sustainable business if you think this is all there is to it.

Bless your heart

 

[TDFT1]

The other side has been stockpiling and they have billionaires buying for them. Hard to compete with that, for them, it’s not just getting more AMMO, it’s keeping it from the Right who didn’t buy before shit went sideways. I am lucky, I did buy when it was dirt cheap. All brass cased factory AMMO.

 

[Davidu]

https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2020/03/price-gouging-daren-wiseley.html I'll just leave this here...

Interesting take on price gouging subject
Flawed though IMHO
The responses are more to the point
Authors comparison to gas shortage ( which I experienced) fails to take into account that the public COULD NOT substantially hoard gasoline. We all went out and bought gas cans which were soon non existent. So 15-20 gallons was about it. Lots of cars caught fire due to gasoline traveling around in trunks.
The author is obviously well educated, but lacks life’s experiences.

 

[308pirate]

Interesting take on price gouging subject
Flawed though IMHO
The responses are more to the point
Authors comparison to gas shortage ( which I experienced) fails to take into account that the public COULD NOT substantially hoard gasoline. We all went out and bought gas cans which were soon non existent. So 15-20 gallons was about it. Lots of cars caught fire due to gasoline traveling around in trunks.
The author is obviously well educated, but lacks life’s experiences.

So everyone is wrong but you.

Got it.

 

[Charger442]

*Creedmoor*

I've got 7,700 rounds of those 143's that I paid just over $1/round for according to that auction it's worth $31,000 more than I paid for it so stereotype away.

my posts are often riddled with jokes. The misspelling of that name is one of them, as even people who shoot it get it wrong.


If i am you, id sell all i could sell off. keep a 1,000 rounds and sell the rest. But beware, someone is going to start another thread.... "OMG THE PRICE GOUGINGS IS SO TURRIBLE!!@!1!"

 

[roamin]

my posts are often riddled with jokes. The misspelling of that name is one of them, as even people who shoot it get it wrong.


If i am you, id sell all i could sell off. keep a 1,000 rounds and sell the rest. But beware, someone is going to start another thread.... "OMG THE PRICE GOUGINGS IS SO TURRIBLE!!@!1!"

Yep and the next lot is going to close out at $6/rnd someone's making a killing this is insane.