Ammo testing at Mesa Lapua center question regarding elevation
- Thread starter Tomiboy
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If y'er an optimist, you believe that 40 shots determines the quality of y'er entire purchase.
You also believe that all the cartridges in a case are going to produce similar trajectories.
If y'er a hopeless optimist, you believe that every cartridge in a brick is identical.
Do I think that the results obtained at 1000' elevation will be as good as at 5000' elevation?
No, but not just because of the difference in air pressure/density.
I believe that no two cartridges are identical, so what happens today
is unlikely to produce identical results tomorrow.
Ya' can't shoot the same rimfire cartridge twice.
Variations in components, chemistry, assembly and conditions, tells me it ain't happening.
You also believe that all the cartridges in a case are going to produce similar trajectories.
If y'er a hopeless optimist, you believe that every cartridge in a brick is identical.
Do I think that the results obtained at 1000' elevation will be as good as at 5000' elevation?
No, but not just because of the difference in air pressure/density.
I believe that no two cartridges are identical, so what happens today
is unlikely to produce identical results tomorrow.
Ya' can't shoot the same rimfire cartridge twice.
Variations in components, chemistry, assembly and conditions, tells me it ain't happening.
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I've tested in Mesa about half dozen times. About half the time the ammo I brought home has shot well enough to be pretty competitive, the other half shot okay but not great. Mesa is 1500 feet, 80 degrees and 10 percent humidity. We shoot at about 400 feet, 55 degrees and 85 percent humidity. Fortunately if it doesn't work out in one of my guns it test okay in another shooters and you can sell it off. What it does do is show what my guns really don't like so it helps narrow it down and if travel expenses aren't to great (I drive from Oregon so it ain't cheap) it makes sense to me. Is it perfect, no but it's better than testing 20 lots and finding that the one you want is gone IF you can get anything to shoot at all.
Dennis
Dennis
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I suspect that you know it will not work the 'same'. But my opinion, based on no practical experience, is that ammo that shoots well in your rifle at one density altitude will not go to crap at another. I think Justin A. points at a greater risk ... that one can be misled when making decisions on the basis of only 40 rounds. I think testing is probably good insurance against coming home with a real stinker but I would have no certainty that I got the best lot available for my rifle.
Based on a single bughole? No.
I'd save it for my wallet, as a particularly good, random act of accuracy.
Nice 5 shot group, what happened to the other 45?
I'd save it for my wallet, as a particularly good, random act of accuracy.
Nice 5 shot group, what happened to the other 45?
I hear ya' Sam.
I've got a backup hard drive full of random acts of accuracy.
Even some 6X5's at 100 and 200 yards that still surprise me.
The problem? The next box from the same brick spit strays, backed up by the chrony numbers.
It's mass produced rimfire...the assembly line lottery determines the results.
I've got a backup hard drive full of random acts of accuracy.
Even some 6X5's at 100 and 200 yards that still surprise me.
The problem? The next box from the same brick spit strays, backed up by the chrony numbers.
It's mass produced rimfire...the assembly line lottery determines the results.
More specifically, this is what those particular rounds did at the test center. The next group may be different.
What's important is how consistently the rounds in the lot will perform, whether at the test center or at the range. Even a lot that doesn't perform especially well is capable of producing the occassional very impressive group.
I wouldn't judge any 22LR ammo by one group. Let's see the 100 yard group that was generated at the same time.
Sounds like you got a stellar batch of ammo though, which is great, I'd shoot it and flaunt it too, lol
Why don't you buy some and tell us?
I really do not know, but cannot see it making a difference. Just the ambient temp of the ammo itself may change things.
I myself would be more concerned about if I can shoot it that well, you are taking the BA out of a fixture, and the whole works out of a controlled environment so now you have introduced outside interferences.
Sure I would, my decision would be to ask the operator to shoot a bunch more of this to try to get it to fall apart.
If it didn't I would then estimate that this ammo has the potential to deliver 40 shot groups under .574 inches ctc which is the relevant criteria in my discipline.
I have never been to a test facility and never will but if I was to go I would put a lot of thought into choosing the configuration of my rifle in the test and have some rounds shot from a known lot that I supply. I would also have very specific criteria for purchase.
I would venture to guess the altitude would have little to no difference. I used to shoot f-class and when I moved to Colorado the elevation here is almost 7,500 feet above sea level. Concerned that I would have to revisit my load development I was happy to find out the 2 calibers that I shoot had identical velocity and accuracy just like it did when originally developed at 1,200 feet.
Will,
You base what would be good off what you know your rifle is capable of doing. it is that simple. if you rifle has never shot sub. 10mm groups then the lot could be suspect.
when someone ask me what they should look for when they test at the center, I always tell them watch how the group forms. if the first 5 shots are under 6mm but grow to a final 13mm maybe that lot is ok only. but if the final result is say 10-11mm that is a lot I would buy. on the flip side if the first 5 shots are at 8-9mm and then end up at 13mm I would not buy that lot. remember I am looking for single shot dispersion as I shoot BR meaning shot to shot at a different POA. an 8-9mm spread shot to shot would be hard to hold for in a tough condition.
Lee
One shot IMO wouldn't condemn the lot not if it did a 9.02mm prior to that. I base this for the fact that the rifle was not shot exactly like it would at the range. as you know and seen results are always better when shot like it normal is.im not flaunting it really. Im just asking would you make a decision based on that group. No one has asked what the other groups size was.it was a tad bigger BTW @13.2 for 10. It was one bullet that slightly opened up the group. When I shot it yesterday it was identical to the testing and a touch better. That's to be expected since testing is 50 meters and I shoot br @50 yds. The point is the ammo didn't shoot any different in Ohio than here in NC. Op asked about mesa and I tested there as well and got the exact same results.. it's like Justin amateur has said, it's a rimfire lottery everytime you pull the trigger.
What ammo grade was it?
Lee
Sam, perhaps I would and have missed out on some good lots. but I would need to see how it got to 14mm. I been well hoping the same for you too!
Lee
Did you test with a tuner on?im not flaunting it really. Im just asking would you make a decision based on that group. No one has asked what the other groups size was.
To the OP I don't think the elevation difference will matter. if you rifle can now shoot across a wide range of conditions from hot to cold dry and humid. ammo performance may change slightly but not where it goes from good to bad.
Lee
Lee
