Angle cosine indicator and bubble level reconendations

[Sffred]

Hello my fellow enthusiasts!

I’m in the market for a angle cosine indicator and a 34mm bubble level, or a good both combo. But I need my fellow SH members to school me on any products I may have missed the past few years.

It’ll be on a semi 308, 21.5” 1-10” barrel intended for 400-800yrds (average) with a Razor HD 2 4.5-27x56 H59. Elevation varies.

From what I’ve read here on the Hide is that you can’t beat scope tube level, I’m pretty much sold on the newer vortex Lo pro, but I also have been seeing people using the badger angle cosine indicator. Should I just save up for a Spuhr 4616 and get an angle indicator? Or is there a combo worth getting? Seen a couple cheap ones on fleabay but I feel like it’s going to be one of those “you get what you paid for” mind you that there are some great cheaper alternatives but I don’t know if there are any in this category.

What’ll really be great if they made a level, angle indicator, and dope card holder (removable).

Thanks in advance,
Fred

 

[DustBun]

For an ACI I use the Sniper Tools Design - ACIMIL-A2 and the Spuhr - A-0004.

I know it is not a tube mounted level but I use the Knights Anti-Cant Device - KM30855. It is low profile and easy to see. I have a Spuhr SP-4603B and a US Optics B-17 and I could not get a clear view of the level in the Spuhr.

 

[Gunfighter716]

Hard to beat the MK Machining scope mounted levels. Low profile, but still visible and easy to install.

 

[Gunfighter716]

Also, I have no experience with angle cosine indicators, but I see Nightforce is generally recommended if you need one.

 

[LawnMM]

NF is selling the same snipers tools ACI. You don't need it. Most people never encounter an angle shot steep enough or long enough to matter.

I've had one since early on that was a birthday gift when I was getting started, never used it and I've shot in Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, Nebraska, and Arizona.

Spend your money on something else.

 

[phlegethon]

I really like the MK Machining rail mount level too. All their stuff is quality.

 

[AirGunShawn]

Hello my fellow enthusiasts!

I’m in the market for a angle cosine indicator and a 34mm bubble level, or a good both combo. But I need my fellow SH members to school me on any products I may have missed the past few years.

It’ll be on a semi 308, 21.5” 1-10” barrel intended for 400-800yrds (average) with a Razor HD 2 4.5-27x56 H59. Elevation varies.

From what I’ve read here on the Hide is that you can’t beat scope tube level, I’m pretty much sold on the newer vortex Lo pro, but I also have been seeing people using the badger angle cosine indicator. Should I just save up for a Spuhr 4616 and get an angle indicator? Or is there a combo worth getting? Seen a couple cheap ones on fleabay but I feel like it’s going to be one of those “you get what you paid for” mind you that there are some great cheaper alternatives but I don’t know if there are any in this category.

What’ll really be great if they made a level, angle indicator, and dope card holder (removable).

Thanks in advance,
Fred

I have the same problem that DustBun has on his scope mount level.... You cant see it. That is why he has had to install a secondary level. So the best level is one you can see with your open eye that is not looking through the scope. As far as your " angle indicator" they all function in the exact same way. It is basically a function of trigonometry and you are going to have to read the device and it will give you a percentage of what you will need to dial your scope to. Straight 300 yard shots have a full or 100% value, say ten minutes above your zero. A 30 degree elevation would need .886% of that. So you will need to do the math in your head of .87 x 10 = 8.7 minutes. Something like 10 degrees of elevation has a co-sine of .984. 20 degrees = .939 What kind of elevations are you talking about? BTW.... shooting downhill requires the same percentage to be applided to your scops value. Only the level shots retain the full value. I just looked at the Badger indicator and it and it's mount looks really nice but... not for 250.00. You can see from the photo that the device just give you some percentage numbers, you need to do the rest in your head or calculator. You can see what I am using to hold my DOPE cards. They are about 3.50$ ea.

 

[AirGunShawn]

For an ACI I use the Sniper Tools Design - ACIMIL-A2 and the Spuhr - A-0004.

I know it is not a tube mounted level but I use the Knights Anti-Cant Device - KM30855. It is low profile and easy to see. I have a Spuhr SP-4603B and a US Optics B-17 and I could not get a clear view of the level in the Spuhr.

View attachment 7176423View attachment 7176424

DustBun.... I just looked at your KAC anti-cant..... It is a pricey piece but appears to be pure quality. I have a Vudoo
V22 that I only put quality stuff on. I will see if the KAC can be used on it. BTW..... you have a really nice looking rifle.
She looks new.

 

[DustBun]

DustBun.... I just looked at your KAC anti-cant..... It is a pricey piece but appears to be pure quality. I have a Vudoo
V22 that I only put quality stuff on. I will see if the KAC can be used on it. BTW..... you have a really nice looking rifle.
She looks new.

Thanks. It is about 1.5 years old and I only have about 2,200 rounds through it. I'm one of "those" people that don't use it like it was intended to be used. All I do is target shoot so it's easy to keep it looking new. I can hear some of the members now "...scratches give it character..."

I know it's pricey for a little bubble level. It works for me. Good luck.

 

[AirGunShawn]

I have a small nick on the bolt of my Vudoo from hitting the scope mount. It is about an eighth in square. I'm going to send the bolt in over the winter to have it re-cerakoted. I don't like that kind of character. I like my stuff to function and appear to be as new. I have also found that things that are well cared for sell faster and have a better return.

 

[tenringx]

Accuracy 1st levels

 

[SonicBurlap]

For the ACI U.S. Sniper Tools, for the mount Flatline Ops Picatinny Slot-Lok. Bubble levels I currently just use the Vortex but am thinking about giving the Send It electronic level a try.

 

[NOMAD]

You can also use a Slope Doper Tool

www.slopedoper.com

 

[Mute]

In addition to the tools listed above, if you have a mildot master, it has it's own angle calculation scale. You just need a string and a weight.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Hi guys,

Tyler from MK Machining. My rail mount levels are made to fit under pretty low setups, be stout, durable, and easy to install. My scope mount levels need just over .1" clearance to install and feature a hinge and one bolt installation. Both models have a pin to line up your bubble with, and an open top for maximum light gathering.

I think you'll find them to be very similar to an Accuracy First at a fraction of the price.

 

[Jjviperzar1]

Look at the Tubb level. David Tubb has an explanation of the type of bubble he chose in his newest level and why.

 

[BigPineyTradingPost]

Hi guys,

Tyler from MK Machining. My rail mount levels are made to fit under pretty low setups, be stout, durable, and easy to install. My scope mount levels need just over .1" clearance to install and feature a hinge and one bolt installation. Both models have a pin to line up your bubble with, and an open top for maximum light gathering.

I think you'll find them to be very similar to an Accuracy First at a fraction of the price.

View attachment 7179828

MK Machining is good stuff!

 

[moaorbust]

I run an Accuracy1st level on my NXS. Works great and reasonably tough. It uses a ball rather than a bubble.

 

[92trk]

I have a Tubb and I like it a lot but, I'll admit it's not for everyone. It's very small profile.

 

[Luke]

If you want to spend the money, and/or absolutely need a level and ACI - more power to you, no arguments here...when I first started long range shooting I had both - however....I don't use either now. The built-in cant indicator between your ears is uncannily accurate, and when I am out in the mountains doing "field shooting" my range finder (Sig Kilo) has a built in angle adjustment, and my Strelok ballistic app has an angle finder. Worse case scenario and I don't have either of those you can make pretty good angle adjustments using an educated guess. I would venture to say that if you used the money on a case of ammo to go out in the field and actually shoot up/down hills you'll learn a heck of a lot more than whatever a cant indicator or ACI will teach you.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

If you want to spend the money, and/or absolutely need a level and ACI - more power to you, no arguments here...when I first started long range shooting I had both - however....I don't use either now. The built-in cant indicator between your ears is uncannily accurate, and when I am out in the mountains doing "field shooting" my range finder (Sig Kilo) has a built in angle adjustment, and my Strelok ballistic app has an angle finder. Worse case scenario and I don't have either of those you can make pretty good angle adjustments using an educated guess. I would venture to say that if you used the money on a case of ammo to go out in the field and actually shoot up/down hills you'll learn a heck of a lot more than whatever a cant indicator or ACI will teach you.

I would disagree on your brain knowing true level amazingly well. Just a few degrees of cant will have a significant shift in POI at say 1000 yards, and I for one find myself surprised at what "true level" is when the surroundings have funky hills, etc. I'd definitely be off without a level in some scenarios.