Anneal 308 brass for gas gun?

[My Toy]

I'm pretty new to reloading for 308 gas gun (have AR-10). Got some LC once fired brass for reloading. It seems the general consensus is that three or four handloads out of a given case is about all you should try in a gas gun. If that is the case is it worth annealing once fired LC for use in an AR-10. I can see annealing for a bolt gun that not going to beat up the brass so much and you will probably get a lot more reloads out of those cases.
If you are going to anneal (haven't tried it yet but giving it some thought) once fired LC brass when should you do it (ie. before your 1st reload or after so many firings)? Also how often do you anneal your brass?
Thank you in advance for your comments.

 

[gimpy]

I anneal all my brass every loading. If you're looking at buying an annealer or have one, the only investment left is your time. The consistency of neck tension alone makes it worthwhile to me.

 

[fncannon]

I annealed my milsurp brass before uniforming the primer pockets, then just loaded milspec duplicate loads w/150gr FMJ to feed three gas guns. Most brass is approaching ten reloads via RCBS X dies, and no signs of problems yet.

 

[Deadshot2]

Those who are saying "three or four handloads" for gas guns probably aren't annealing their cases, have some headspace issues (either the chamber of sizing practices), or are shooting some loads that are not "case friendly".

Annealing will extend case life merely because it negates the effects of work hardening in the neck/shoulder area.

Won't help primer pockets though if loads are too hot.

 

[918v]

Annealing improves accuracy by making bullet pull consistent.

 

[delixe]

With a gas gun's looser chamber (vs. bolt gun) and FL resizing every loading for gas gun brass, the brass gets worked a lot harder than that in a bolt gun.
In my case I anneal gas gun brass less for accuracy and consistency than for longevity, but it still needs to get annealed after a few firings if I want to get the most life out of it.

 

[My Toy]

Thanks for the replies; I think I'll give annealing a try on a small scale and see how it goes before I invest in an annealing machine. I'm guessing for volume shooter an annealing machine is probably the way to go.

 

[Deadshot2]

Machines are probably a necessity for "volume shooters" but I haven't reached that level yet, I guess. (I only shoot about 5k rounds per year).

I anneal cases with a deep impact socket turned in a cordless drill and a Bernz-O-Matic torch.

4-5 seconds turning in the flame and then drop in an old stainless steel bowl.

Anneal as the cases come from the cleaning process and I can anneal a batch in about 1/2 hour or less. Since I won't have a clean batch for another few hours (the tumbler only holds about 100 .308 cases at a time) so there's no need for a high volume machine. I suppose one could save up a huge batch and then anneal all at once but since I get good results using my <$20 setup, why spend the money on something that will spend most of it's time just sitting there.

Save the money and use it to buy a better scope, etc.

 

[My Toy]

Machines are probably a necessity for "volume shooters" but I haven't reached that level yet, I guess. (I only shoot about 5k rounds per year).

I anneal cases with a deep impact socket turned in a cordless drill and a Bernz-O-Matic torch.

4-5 seconds turning in the flame and then drop in an old stainless steel bowl.

Anneal as the cases come from the cleaning process and I can anneal a batch in about 1/2 hour or less. Since I won't have a clean batch for another few hours (the tumbler only holds about 100 .308 cases at a time) so there's no need for a high volume machine. I suppose one could save up a huge batch and then anneal all at once but since I get good results using my <$20 setup, why spend the money on something that will spend most of it's time just sitting there.

Save the money and use it to buy a better scope, etc.

I've seen a demonstration of this method on You Tube; Looks like a good starting point for me. What is your target temperature to heat the case neck to? Do you use a temperature indicating paste or stick or just go by case color. Finally do you let the cases air cool or water quench them?
I'm getting excited to try this.

 

[Monmouth]

Buy the 750 tempilaq paint and coat the inside of the neck. Spin, flame, wait, drop and don't need water because you will use the 425 paste down the case body to gauge safe annealing.

Think about annealing in the dark to really see the changes.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Accurate shooter.com has the best write up on the net for getting your fundamentals in annealing. Id definitely recommend reading that.

The Art and Science of Annealing within AccurateShooter.com

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Yes, annealing is absolutely a good idea even with a gas gun as it will help to keep those necks from becoming hard and splitting. I personally picked up a machine for annealing and don't typically anneal until there is at least a batch of 500-1000 pieces of brass ready.

 

[Deadshot2]

I've seen a demonstration of this method on You Tube; Looks like a good starting point for me. What is your target temperature to heat the case neck to? Do you use a temperature indicating paste or stick or just go by case color. Finally do you let the cases air cool or water quench them?
I'm getting excited to try this.

I use a 750 degree Tempilstik. I'll hold the case in the flame for about 3 seconds then remove one side of the case neck from the flame and quickly touch the case/shoulder junction. If the stick just starts to smear then the temperature has been achieved. For my cases the finish time is 4-5 seconds depending on how high I have the flame set. I then just tip the socket and let the case drop in a stainless bowl. No need to use water as when annealing brass, all that quenching does is leave you with a wet case. Doesn't add anything to the metallurgical process at all. If you want to have the brass cool enough to touch quicker just get one of those small battery office desk fans (where I worked all the overweight gals had one or two on their desks ) and blow air over the brass in the bowl (or cookie sheet, baking pan, etc).

Once I've checked the "flame time" that's needed to get the case to 750 degrees from then on I merely count. I've got a pretty good sense of rhythm having played music half my life but for those who are rhythm challenged, use a metronome or a metronome app for a smart phone. I don't bother with "glow" or tempilac which I would have to clean off he case later. Only the first few cases have a "smear" on them from the stick. After you get the hang of it you'll notice that there is a clear line that's bluish in color which forms just above the socket when the temp is right. I direct the flame close to the shoulder to keep the case mouth from heating too quickly and burning. If this happens you'll notice a color change in the flame. Too hot when that happens.

Take a few pieces of trashed brass or range pickup that you wouldn't want to load and practice. After a few cases you'll get in the swing of things and be able to produce annealed brass as quick as a machine, leaving more money in your pocket.

 

[My Toy]

Deadshot2 thanks for the additional details; I'm definitely going to give this a try.

 

[Deerhunter28]

Do you resize before annealing or just after annealing?
Thanks


PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out

 

[ZombieMonkey]

You resize after annealing. Makes resizing easier and more consistent.

 

[Billiam1211]

My experience in reloading for both 308 and 223 gas guns is that the primer pockets go first. I've had about 5 firings on Lapua 308 brass. I probably wouldn't load them again unless the primers were sealed in place. I have a primer pocket go/no-go gauge that I use and toss brass once it fails the no-go. After probably almost 10,000 rounds I have yet to crack a neck. I have however lost a primer due to a loose pocket, which completely ruined a range day for me when it jammed the rifle.